Upick 2: Electric Boogaloo

[moonfly7]

But why? He's already the top wagon, and the second wagon is equally good to me. Do I have to put a vote on one of them just to look good?

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Matter of fact I don't. You can pretty much flip the conclusions you would get in the two cases.

Yes actually I think you do. How you look is just as important as mechanical benefits and info, I think everybody can agree, you included, that how we appear to the others in this game matters, kinda like politics or marketing. You deliberately making that decision is suspicious because it's a decision that's suspicious. If I'm not mistaken your a veteran of these games, or have at least played before. So you know that sounds suspicious but you said it anyway. For what it's worth I don't think your wolf right now, but I'm questioning the behavior.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

More importantly, Cao, I see you're rallying against the arguments for your lynching (and reasonably so), but you're failing to give a good reason we should lynch someone else in your place.

Wait, what? You're saying that you don't prefer my wagon over Snow?

Matter of fact I don't. You can pretty much flip the conclusions you would get in the two cases.

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My problem is you're saying this is preferable to dealing with the large group that doesn't seem to care about this lynch one way or the other.

And how do you deal with them? What's your proposal? This is pretty in line with my previous point:

More importantly, Cao, I see you're rallying against the arguments for your lynching (and reasonably so), but you're failing to give a good reason we should lynch someone else in your place.

I gave a reads list a page ago. I said there were people I suspected (gac, Book, BCH) and voted gac, then Book. I am doing more in this game to go after leads than you. I've show how I'm trying to deal with them: Give answers and take a side, or you get voted.


Captain Cap, you're leaving your random vote out and only passively saying my lynch would help. You've given no indication as to what you think of other players and do not care between my lynch and Snow. You're not committing to anything and no matter who gets lynched today, we don't learn anything about you. Take a side, or get voted.

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Vote Count:
BladeScape (1): Book Wombat
AvatarVecna (1): Captain Cap
CaoimhinTheCape (4): Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna
Rogan (2): Batcathat, Xihirli
Xihirli (1): Taffimai
Snowblaze (3): Rogan, Moonfly7, BladeScape
Taffimai (1): gac3
Captain Cap(1): CaoimhinTheCape

Not Voting: SupaGoof, Fext

[Captain Cap]

Yes actually I think you do. How you look is just as important as mechanical benefits and info, I think everybody can agree, you included, that how we appear to the others in this game matters, kinda like politics or marketing. You deliberately making that decision is suspicious because it's a decision that's suspicious. If I'm not mistaken your a veteran of these games, or have at least played before. So you know that sounds suspicious but you said it anyway. For what it's worth I don't think your wolf right now, but I'm questioning the behavior.

Funnily enough, except when I've been a wolf (for obvious reasons) I've never cared much about how I would appear: in fact I've spent many games on the razor edge of the lynching, but I've also been lynched relatively few times (just one, if I recall correctly).

But given there are already two players encouraging me to take a stance, before the day ends I'll read once again all the relevant posts and decide where to put my final vote.

[Rogan]

I can't take that at face value or as any evidence at all. I have neither the experience with Snow or any reason to trust you to take what's basically conjecture as a reason to back down. Granted I also don't have much more than gut instinct on this either, but I'll trust my gut over a vague "they're just like that" any day.

Not disputing but legitimate question: how does the death help? Do we get a role reveal when they die? If not how on earth could it help? Beyond reactions to the death I can't see lynching them, or anyone for that matter, being an investigative tool. If someone could explain it to me that would be great, because I'm sure I'm missing something on this since I'm new.


Personal theory time:

AV and Fext are not both possessing anti SK roles. Ones the Serial Killer, and the other is the Anti SK. Just a thought, but a potent one in my mind.

You are right you can't trust Xi. But I think, it was an at least party honest try to help you. Many players here know each other and the way the others are playing. As a new guy, you are missing this background info.
Giving you this insight CAN be meant to deceive you, but it has to be very close to the truth. Otherwise, someone would call the lie.

Your theory is possible. It seems unlikely two players possessing powers targeting the SK specifically. But impossible, but unlikely.
I could see another way, but I will keep quiet about this until it becomes relevant. It's speculation without mech backup anyway.

If your theory is correct, things might sort themselves out tonight, so that's another reason not to vote there.

I do not have a roles list.


So, last UPick Game I was lynched because "it would provide info". Gonna follow out your logic and see what y'all would learn.

If I flip Town:
Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna are checked for hostile motive. Keep an eye on Rogan.

If I flip Evil:
Check everyone I could have pushed to 3 votes for scum. That includes: Xihirli, Rogan, CaoimhinTheCape. Clear Elenna, AV, and Meta.

Either way, no info on Book Wombat, Captain Cap, Batcathat, Taffimai, SupaGoof, gac3, Fext, BladeScape. For the most part they are passively OK with me getting lynched. Moon has recently defended me, slight points to Blade who have actually made recent votes.

Spoiler: count at the time of my vote

Show

gac3 (1): Rogan
BladeScape (1): Book Wombat
AvatarVecna (1): Captain Cap
CaoimhinTheCape (2): Metastachydium, AvatarVecna
Rogan (2): Batcathat, Xihirli
Xihirli (2): Taffimai, Elenna
Batcathat (2): Moonfly7, CaoimhinTheCape

Not Voting: Snowblaze, SupaGoof, gac3, Fext, BladeScape

Is that the info you're happy to learn when I flip? Cause I see 8 players who haven't commented on me at all. If I flip Town on the lynch, it'll look suspicious in that they avoided talking about me while letting my lynch happen. If I flip Scum on the lynch, it'll look like they had no route to save me and stayed quiet (barring maybe a Snow lynch now?)


You're wrong about me not giving info on the reads list. Maybe I could have said it more plainly but here's the list below:



Translating that to reads:
Rogan, Snowblaze as Town (I don't know that I could be more clear on that).
Elenna as Town lean, not as strong as Rogan/Snow.
SupaGoof as No Info. (literally nothing)
AV, Xi, Captain Cap as Neutral. (lack of useful content)
Blade was a small Wolf Lean.
BCH, Book Wombat as Wolf lean.
gac3 vote (implying I think he's Wolf).

I guess I didn't need to reiterate my thoughts but I wanted to order them from Towniest to Wolfiest. I have no info to go on for my Neutral reads, seeing as there's so little info. I gave you 3 people I lean town on, 3/4 I find Wolfish. And the newer players I left out, seeing as I won't vote them today.

I Agree there is not that much going for your kill. I agree about the conclusions your flip would yield. In fact, I said something similar myself. But 8 players not commenting mean about half the players are commenting.

I would love a good alternate, yielding even more info or having a better chance of hitting scum. Or at least more people really committing to a read on you. But I am not a Lvl20 wizard. I can't cast wish.


Your explanation about the read list is nice to have. I don't 100% agree about snow, but I can see your point. I also doubt you are allies, so putting her as Town makes me think this is an honest read.
An ideal mafia player definitely could have handled the original list better, but nobody is perfect.

You remain a Town lean for me and I would rather lynch someone else.
I also acknowledge that there are few real alternatives. Snow is possible. Anybody else?

[Captain Cap]

I gave a reads list a page ago. I said there were people I suspected (gac, Book, BCH) and voted gac, then Book. I am doing more in this game to go after leads than you. I've show how I'm trying to deal with them: Give answers and take a side, or you get voted.

To be fair I specified "good reasons". Despite your work to go lead after lead, you still don't make more compelling arguments than the ones Snowblaze has against you.

[moonfly7]

Funnily enough, except when I've been a wolf (for obvious reasons) I've never cared much about how I would appear: in fact I've spent many games on the razor edge of the lynching, but I've also been lynched relatively few times (just one, if I recall correctly).

But given there are already two players encouraging me to take a stance, before the day ends I'll read once again all the relevant posts and decide where to put my final vote.

Fair enough then. Although as I told Xi earlier, I have to take every "I do *blank*" assertion with a grain of salt, even if I think your telling the truth.

You are right you can't trust Xi. But I think, it was an at least party honest try to help you. Many players here know each other and the way the others are playing. As a new guy, you are missing this background info.
Giving you this insight CAN be meant to deceive you, but it has to be very close to the truth. Otherwise, someone would call the lie.

Your theory is possible. It seems unlikely two players possessing powers targeting the SK specifically. But impossible, but unlikely.
I could see another way, but I will keep quiet about this until it becomes relevant. It's speculation without mech backup anyway.

If your theory is correct, things might sort themselves out tonight, so that's another reason not to vote there.



I Agree there is not that much going for your kill. I agree about the conclusions your flip would yield. In fact, I said something similar myself. But 8 players not commenting mean about half the players are commenting.

I would love a good alternate, yielding even more info or having a better chance of hitting scum. Or at least more people really committing to a read on you. But I am not a Lvl20 wizard. I can't cast wish.


Your explanation about the read list is nice to have. I don't 100% agree about snow, but I can see your point. I also doubt you are allies, so putting her as Town makes me think this is an honest read.
An ideal mafia player definitely could have handled the original list better, but nobody is perfect.

You remain a Town lean for me and I would rather lynch someone else.
I also acknowledge that there are few real alternatives. Snow is possible. Anybody else?

I don't have a better than Snow, and while Cap is mildly dubious I don't think he's a wolf. AV and Fext are dangers but I agree we leave them be for now.

As for background info, I really appreciate it and understand the intent, but caution dictates that until proven otherwise, it's in my best interest to assume everyone is lying, even if only partially. That being said it is good to have, but I can't trust it or base a vote on it.
Also I think previous game behavior is just a bad indicator in general, in my experience changing how you act and react is very easy in a text form, it lets people be much better actors and shift behavior wildly in ways they couldn't IRL.

[Rogan]

I don't recall saying I had non-kill powers, just saying that I have two kill powers. Not saying I don't have others, either.

"Ywtgiykehconcptfh, aalomoytia."

I count at least two as multiple. And I think your posts are meant to be non-committed regarding the number and kind of powers you have.

And sorry, but it's this gibberish supposed to mean something? I don't want to try to Crack a code (which might be forbidden by forum rules anyway, as you know perfectly well).

But why? He's already the top wagon, and the second wagon is equally good to me. Do I have to put a vote on one of them just to look good?

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Matter of fact I don't. You can pretty much flip the conclusions you would get in the two cases.

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And how do you deal with them? What's your proposal? This is pretty in line with my previous point:

I am not going to quote everything about you, Cap. Cap. But I want you to know I think your behavior is not very helpful right now. I might be willing to change my vote to you if you are getting closer to an actual valid lynch target, but right now I want to keep it at a pace that matters.

[Captain Cap]

Fair enough then. Although as I told Xi earlier, I have to take every "I do *blank*" assertion with a grain of salt, even if I think your telling the truth

That's wise.

In the end I'll go with Snowblaze. Between Cao and her she's been the most aggressive one with the first real lynching push, at the same time without a strong case at her side. Moreover, the fact Cao resisted relatively well to the pressure and read Snowblaze as town, basically renouncing at the possibility of getting on Snow's wagon without raising suspicions and thus decreasing his survival chances, would make a decent case for towniness, better than the ones for Snowblaze in my opinion.

Of course, the fact Cao has the really good habit to keep track of the votes has absolutely no weight in my decision.

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Vote Count:
BladeScape (1): Book Wombat
CaoimhinTheCape (4): Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna
Rogan (2): Batcathat, Xihirli
Xihirli (1): Taffimai
Snowblaze (4): Rogan, Moonfly7, BladeScape, Captain Cap
Taffimai (1): gac3
Captain Cap(1): CaoimhinTheCape

Not Voting: SupaGoof, Fext

[AvatarVecna]

I count at least two as multiple. And I think your posts are meant to be non-committed regarding the number and kind of powers you have.

"Multiple powers, at least two killing" implies that I said I have non-kill powers, which I didn't.

And sorry, but it's this gibberish supposed to mean something? I don't want to try to Crack a code (which might be forbidden by forum rules anyway, as you know perfectly well).

Yes, although you're right it's against forum rules, I forgot.

[Captain Cap]

Yes, although you're right it's against forum rules, I forgot.

You forgot it like the last time?

[AvatarVecna]

You forgot it like the last time?

I have a kinda bad memory. It's part of why I just tend to quote everything when I do an ISO.

[Batcathat]

I've been postponing making a new vote all day, hoping something would make it easier, but it seems unlikely at this point. There are some things speaking against both Snow and Cao, it's all rather vague but I suppose that's to be expected D1. Out of the two, I feel like Snow is pushing the discussion in a more constructive way, while CaoimhinTheCape's words seem more fluff than substance (yes, I realize that's kinda hypocritical coming from me).

[Rogan]

"Multiple powers, at least two killing" implies that I said I have non-kill powers, which I didn't.



Yes, although you're right it's against forum rules, I forgot.

I see it can be interpreted this way. It was not meant to imply you said something like that.
You can read it as "I, Rogan, think it's possible you have more than two powers. If this is true, I assume there will be non-kill powers as well (since having many different kill powers would be strange. Unless you have the kill power of "Kill the player by getting the role name right. Here is the list of player powers").

I have no specific info one way or another.

[Captain Cap]

I've been postponing making a new vote all day, hoping something would make it easier, but it seems unlikely at this point. There are some things speaking against both Snow and Cao, it's all rather vague but I suppose that's to be expected D1. Out of the two, I feel like Snow is pushing the discussion in a more constructive way, while CaoimhinTheCape's words seem more fluff than substance (yes, I realize that's kinda hypocritical coming from me).

If I may, it's a curious coincidence you put another vote on Cao around 10 minutes after my vote on Snowblaze, which in case of a self-preservation vote by Cao would have let him survive at her expenses.

[moonfly7]

That's wise.

In the end I'll go with Snowblaze. Between Cao and her she's been the most aggressive one with the first real lynching push, at the same time without a strong case at her side. Moreover, the fact Cao resisted relatively well to the pressure and read Snowblaze as town, basically renouncing at the possibility of getting on Snow's wagon without raising suspicions and thus decreasing his survival chances, would make a decent case for towniness, better than the ones for Snowblaze in my opinion.

Of course, the fact Cao has the really good habit to keep track of the votes has absolutely no weight in my decision.

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Vote Count:
BladeScape (1): Book Wombat
CaoimhinTheCape (4): Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna
Rogan (2): Batcathat, Xihirli
Xihirli (1): Taffimai
Snowblaze (4): Rogan, Moonfly7, BladeScape, Captain Cap
Taffimai (1): gac3
Captain Cap(1): CaoimhinTheCape

Not Voting: SupaGoof, Fext

I'm thinking that now Cap he voted Cao's vote is likely changing. But right now if none of the off-wagon voters change its gonna be close between Cao and Snow. So I'll say it now: if cao goes and is town, we need to double back and hit Snow. Unless snow gets knifed tonight, or an unforeseen circumstance occurs.

Edit: yeah it's odd that the Cao vote came so soon, could be a coincidence but I agree with Cap that it's strange. Although I doubt Cao will do a self preservation vote, he seems certain that Snow is innocent, which I disagree with but I think he'll stick to his guns.

[Captain Cap]

Although I doubt Cao will do a self preservation vote, he seems certain that Snow is innocent, which I disagree with but I think he'll stick to his guns.

If he's town, he would have to decide (from his point of view) between saving a 100% town and a >50% town. In absence of claims, a self-preservation vote would seem the most logical option.

EDIT: Of course, it would be the most logical option also in a wolf!Cao scenario.

[moonfly7]

If he's town, he would have to decide (from his point of view) between saving a 100% town and a >50% town. In absence of claims, a self-preservation vote would seem the most logical option.

Fair enough, though it's possible he's got some kind of advantage we don't, but I doubt it.

[Batcathat]

If I may, it's a curious coincidence you put another vote on Cao around 10 minutes after my vote on Snowblaze, which in case of a self-preservation vote by Cao would have let him survive at her expenses.

Sure, your vote played a part, both in inspiring me to actually take some sort of stand and in that I think Cao is a more likely wolf than Snow. But sure, if he flips town I get that it'll look bad on me.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I Agree there is not that much going for your kill. I agree about the conclusions your flip would yield. In fact, I said something similar myself. But 8 players not commenting mean about half the players are commenting.

Thing is, you're reading AV and Rogan as suspicious no matter which way I flip and Xi only gives info if I flip scum. You don't get into on 10, maybe 11 players. Which to me isn't worth ignoring the list of people hanging around and leaving random votes out.

Edit: yeah it's odd that the Cao vote came so soon, could be a coincidence but I agree with Cap that it's strange. Although I doubt Cao will do a self preservation vote, he seems certain that Snow is innocent, which I disagree with but I think he'll stick to his guns.

So, as a counterpoint, I will do a self-preservation vote if it comes down to it. I have a town read of Snow but between her and me, I know my alignment. Unfortunately, with the tie rules, I think it doesn't matter since I would have gotten to 5 first. I'd still prefer another wagon but I'll move to Snow if it'll save me.

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That said, I need to take a break from my computer. I'm glad that Captain Cap made a decision and would like Book Wombat, Xihirli, Taffimai, gac, and Fext to pick a side or propose something else.

Personally, I feel like Book Wombat or Xihirli is a good option since they've posted a bit but stayed completely away from both me and Snow. I also don't like BCH's vote against me just as the wagons tied, so BCH is an option too.

Thing is, Rogan will not vote Xi and apparently no one else thinks it's worth it to vote people who have a large number of posts but haven't contributed much. I've been trying to vote for others but no one seems to want to vote with me.

Gonna unvote and step away for a bit, will hopefully be back in an hour or two to place it somewhere.

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For new players, I always make Vote Counts to keep track of things. I do this as Town and Scum so it shouldn't indicate much, I just want to keep track of what's going on and if I don't have it in front of me I'll keep forgetting.

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Vote Count:
BladeScape (1): Book Wombat
CaoimhinTheCape (5): Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna, Batcathat
Rogan (1): Xihirli
Xihirli (1): Taffimai
Snowblaze (4): Rogan, Moonfly7, BladeScape, Captain Cap
Taffimai (1): gac3


Not Voting: SupaGoof, Fext, CaoimhinTheCape

[Rogan]

31 Rogan
20 Metastachydium
19 Book Wombat
18 Snowblaze
16 moonfly7
16 Captain Cap
15 AvatarVecna
14 Batcathat
9 CaoimhinTheCape
8 bladescape
6 Fext
6 Elenna
5 Taffimai
5 Xihirli
4 gac3


This is the number of posts each player had. I am a bit surprised about Caos position on this list. I thought he had more posts. After all, he is the top wagon.

Pleasantly surprised by Meta. Activity level alone is not telling much and I probably should reread his posts before I make such a statement, but I get a good, townie feeling here.

Slightly surprised about AV, but I expect some more activity from her later, when there is more material for ISOs. I think she even telegraphed she would be less active this match, since last game took much time and energy to fool Mr Popo. So it's notable, but not alignment indicative.

Supagoof didn't check in yet. He is rarely online on the weekends, so no reason to worry yet.
But I would like to know:
Unavenger how are you going to handle inactivity? Emmy was ready as backup, will you call her? When?

[Unavenger]

Unavenger how are you going to handle inactivity? Emmy was ready as backup, will you call her? When?

If anyone goes for a full cycle without posting at all, they'll be replaced. This is either a full day and the next full night, or a full night and the next full day.

[Book Wombat]

I've been staying away from the wagons because of my limited ability to read people. I will try to be more active tomorrow (assuming I survive) since I have holidays.

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Also the reason I have a higher post count than usual.

[Rogan]

Spoiler: Xihirli ISO

Show

Link into the VRAINS!
What’s up, my lovelies? I hope you’re ready for a crazy ride full of bloodshed.

In the interest of preserving the Seer, I propose burning Rogan.

Joke vote, NAI.

There is no mountain I will not leap from to kill a person!

But more seriously, I did not see BCH's post before. I was on mobile so I suppose my murder attempt was ninja'd.

Defending her joke vote. Minimal wolf lean.

I’ve managed to reduce my work hours coming up so that should be helpful

An indirect promise for more activity. NAI on its own.

Maybe everyone has a night kill

This could be a hint that Xi has a night kill. A personal night kill is either town or the serial killer. I can't see mafia with an extra kill.
It could also be a way to fish for more info about the powers of other players.

Snowblaze's posts feeling vaguely suspicious just means Snowblaze is being Snowblaze. In my experience, there's nothing Snow has said that is out of the ordinary for Town!Snow.

Snow meta / defense. If Snow flips scum, it might warrant another look. NAI otherwise.

There is not much to go by. No big posts, nothing fancy.
I request clarification about the kill power
I don't like the fact that Xi is so quiet, not changing her joke vote to something more substantial or answering the question about the kill power thing. (I am reasonably sure this was asked by at least one person other than me)

A slight scum lean.

Spoiler: Meta-read

Show

But this is Xi, it probably means she is town...

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Spoiler: gac3 ISO

Show

Taffimai for accusing AV of being a wolf in the game AV was running.

Weak reason to vote a new (?) Player, so it's unlikely to stick. Worst case, that's a distancing move, but this should not be relevant until one of them flip scum. Till than NAI.

Yes, true. But it's early in the process and I have only seen one other comment that has stood out to me but I'm not sure if it's just me being biased about the comment. So it's what I have so far.

A very subtle attack on me. At first, I was willing to give some town points, now I could see it as a scum move. I don't have the necessary distance so judge.

Will weigh in shortly. Sorry for the delay. I need to catch up because Ive spent the last 16 hours asleep. But my fever finally broke so I'll be relaxing and catching up because forget trying to do anything productive for real life right now.

IRL reasons for being quiet. NAI.
I hope you are not seriously sick / will be fine again soon.

This immediately felt off to me. This is what I had previously commented on. The wording of "you usually live long, would you mind getting lynched day 1" seems to imply that we should try to lynch off of some kind of fairness and not based on "looking for wolves".

The reason I was hesitant to mention this is two fold. 1. It might just be a stupid reason. Lots of stupid reasons are given in the first round of votes and it probably wasn't meant to be taken seriously. 2. I have to question whether the wording would have stood out if it wasn't me being named in red.



I don't know whats up with the second part with "bat you really want to kill me?" It feels like the statement, "even if I am a wolf, you shouldn't kill me." But idk.



I don't at all remember what the bastard mechanic was.



I'm not sure I support the logic for giving me town points here. Because, yes I did try to avoid calling them out, but if I was a wolf, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it at all. Hard to say for sure. I haven't been a wolf in so so long.



This has already been corrected but i quoted this one to point out that I had voted. So the assertion that I hadn't stands out. Especially since I had so little posts to reference.


Reasons explained above.




This is a major logical fallacy unless I'm completely missing something. "It's better to let people know there is one than to hunt them from relative safety.

So you told us day 1. Yet if I remember right, we will get fluff for kills. So unless the kill is blocked we will know by the start of day 2. How much could we possibly do to hunt them in that amount of time? Meanwhile you presumably could have actually used your powers. I find this to be very SUS logic.



I had the same thought but given my above point, I'm still not convinced they definitively aren't the serial killer.



What?

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Wait a second... What are the odds that two town members would get specific references to the serial killer in their QT? I originally thought AV was just referencing Fext but it seems like they also are confirming the serial killer. This is a genuine confusion. I wasn't in the last UPick. So what are the odds that two townies would get serial killer targeting powers and confirmation and that one of them isn't a serial killer?

One big catch up post. I already replied to it in some details, so I will keep it short here.
There is some self defense and some weak attacks. No opinion about the Cao wagon. No new vote.

There is one big post to work with and some small. Right now, I have a small wolf lean. But I don't trust myself here, since a somewhat significant part is about me.
I hope we can get some more posts here.
I request an opinion about Cao and Snow.

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If enough people feel like gac is suspicious, I would be willing to go there. Him being quiet means there won't be much info by flipping him, but if there is a shift in votes to make this lynch possible, it could be telling in itself.

[Metastachydium]

Yeah, I brought up Xihirli's night kill comment too (more specifically, I reiterated your question to hammer home the point that there's a general interest of sorts in the answer).

As for gac, there's what? Two hours remaining? I'm not sure we could lynch 'em if we wanted to.

[Rogan]

I agree it's unlikely. But that's why I think a shift of votes there would be telling in itself. On the other hand, some people are not happy about the snow wagon, other people are unhappy about Cao. Some don't like both wagons and many don't care one way or the other. So presenting an alternative might pay off.

What do you think about my read on gac?

[Book Wombat]

~3.2 hours remaining till Dusk I think.

[Rogan]

~3.2 hours remaining till Dusk I think.

Seems right, yes. Wait.. Isn't it 2?
Can I get your opinion about gac?

[moonfly7]

You know, looking back, I do think it off that when I challenged Cap and told him that appearances mattered he almost did a 180 and started being heavier on the snow wagon. I know Cao and I were telling him to vote, but it's not like just voting is the same as suddenly being more cooperative and picking a side.
Probably nothing but I think it would be remiss not to mention it.

[Metastachydium]

What do you think about my read on gac?

Like you said, we don't have much to work with. The only weird thing about his not-even-accusing-you-of-anything is that they brought it up in the first place, but I'm inclined to write it off as a harmless sort of weird.
As for the rest, their confusion regarding AV and Fext is valid stuff, but then, if both are neutrals or whatever, a dog has no reason not to draw attention to them, so it doesn't tell us much. The rest… It's mostly nothing.

[Taffimai]

Everything I say is going to be obsolete by the time I actually get to post it. Oh well.

I feel like breaking the tie.

Do you care to explain why not breaking the tie is a sight wolfread? Cao was tied as well.

At the risk of kicking in an open door: this game has a clearly-defined tie-breaker, which means there functionally is no tie. Rogan was going to be lynched until Snow became the third vote on Caoimhin (and then he repaid her by starting the snow-mobile).

Added together it isn't much I grant you, but I feel like there are WAY more suspicious people we could be focusing on than Cao. I think that killing them now is gonna take out a town, or at the least a neutral.

I'm not sure I quite understand the case against Cao, but I can't see any better ones and him flipping should indeed give us something more to go on.

I was in total agreement with this until I reread all posts for today (which were way too many and my family is annoyed with me now for how much of my time it took). Neither Caoimhin nor Snow looked suspicious to me, and there were a few who had, so I was going to vote for a third. Moreover, I feel very bad that Caoimhin would get lynched Day 1 two Upicks in a row as an innocent, I'd be super upset over that. However:

More importantly, Cao, I see you're rallying against the arguments for your lynching (and reasonably so), but you're failing to give a good reason we should lynch someone else in your place.

I'd still prefer another wagon but I'll move to Snow if it'll save me. (...) I've been trying to vote for others but no one seems to want to vote with me.

Caoimhin, this claim is pertinently untrue. You've been throwing your votes around willy-nilly all day, always just to get a response out of people, never for anyone who had 2 or more votes already, and always removing them quickly after so there really wasn't any chance for the players who were coming after (like myself) to create a third wagon. At this point I'm feeling the lady protests too much. You may be town, but I think it'll be better to pick a side rather than to stay with my joke vote.