Help me sell out, GitP. Please.

[jaappleton]

I HAVE RECEIVED A RESPONSE

"While we don't really send out review copies to specific forum members, I can put this in front of our community folks to see if they can support you in some way"

.....Before you say anything.

Honestly?

I didn't think I'd get a response at all.

They give copies to Morrus at ENWorld, because he runs the place. If I were the illustrious Mr. Burlow here at GitP, I'd likely receive books, no problem.

I'm just a forum user. Which is an entirely correct and fair thing to say, let's all be honest.

The fact that I got this response makes me hopeful something could be done.

Legitimately, I see some YouTubers getting books and my topic views outweigh their video views. And I showed that data in the email I sent to the person at WOTC.... which, being honest, is why I think I got a response.

So.... I'll keep everyone updated.

And to everyone... Truly. Really. Thank you. Thank you all so much. I wish I had the proper vocabulary to express how kind you've all been.

[Segev]

I HAVE RECEIVED A RESPONSE

"While we don't really send out review copies to specific forum members, I can put this in front of our community folks to see if they can support you in some way"

.....Before you say anything.

Honestly?

I didn't think I'd get a response at all.

They give copies to Morrus at ENWorld, because he runs the place. If I were the illustrious Mr. Burlow here at GitP, I'd likely receive books, no problem.

I'm just a forum user. Which is an entirely correct and fair thing to say, let's all be honest.

The fact that I got this response makes me hopeful something could be done.

Legitimately, I see some YouTubers getting books and my topic views outweigh their video views. And I showed that data in the email I sent to the person at WOTC.... which, being honest, is why I think I got a response.

So.... I'll keep everyone updated.

And to everyone... Truly. Really. Thank you. Thank you all so much. I wish I had the proper vocabulary to express how kind you've all been.

Congratulations/good luck.

I recommend, still, starting a blog (just transcribing your posts to them), or even making short youtube announcement videos, even if all they do is repeat your rumors. It will give you a format that they're used to seeing.

[jaappleton]

Congratulations/good luck.

I recommend, still, starting a blog (just transcribing your posts to them), or even making short youtube announcement videos, even if all they do is repeat your rumors. It will give you a format that they're used to seeing.

I don't disagree.

However. A small peek behind the curtain, as it were:

I have five young boys, with a sixth on the way. From eleven years old down to six months, not counting the bun in the oven. Two of which are special needs, nonverbal Autistic. I work 60 hour weeks, every week. I go to bed at 8:30pm to wake up at 5:30am, except Fridays, which is D&D night.

While I'd love to do more than I do now, I won't have the time to do anything like that for a few years, at least.

If the fine people at WOTC decide to add me to the list of people who get preview copies, they won't be sharing the books with me.

Instead, the books would be shared with this whole community. And that's what I'd love for them to understand. In between meetings at work, or while sitting on the couch holding my son, I can post here and talk about D&D. Share what I know. Happily do AMAs on things, like I did with the Ravnica book when it dropped. I can do this forum. Happily, and with dedication, like I have been for quite awhile now. I'd love to expand upon that further, and take the next step, with this forum. Not with some blog I'd have for appearances sake.

The topics I make here have more engagement that some blog users, YouTubers, and twitter influencers multiple times over. Ideally, that is what I'd love for them to recognize, and it is on that merit that I believe a member of this community should be on the list to receive review copies to share them here. If its me, or Rich Burlow, or a moderator here, or anyone.

And as my topics and posts show... I can find time for topics and posting a little more often than I should during work >_>

[BoutsofInsanity]

I'd like jaapleton's name added to the list of people that get advanced copies.

[Bacon Elemental]

I'd love to see this happen! It might b a long shot, but it's always good to include the old-standing communities in product engagement!

[Segev]

I don't disagree.

However. A small peek behind the curtain, as it were:

I have five young boys, with a sixth on the way. From eleven years old down to six months, not counting the bun in the oven. Two of which are special needs, nonverbal Autistic. I work 60 hour weeks, every week. I go to bed at 8:30pm to wake up at 5:30am, except Fridays, which is D&D night.

While I'd love to do more than I do now, I won't have the time to do anything like that for a few years, at least.

Congratulations on the kiddos, especially the new one on the way. Kids are amazing.

And yeah, also a big time commitment. Best wishes to you and your family.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd like jaapleton's name added to the list of people that get advanced copies.

[TigerT20]

I'd like jaapleton's name added to the list of people that get advanced copies.

[Spriteless]

I like GitP forums specifically because there is friction that keeps only people invested in there opinion here. No twiterers or tubers posting in bad faith, hoping for rage engagement.

What I'm saying is, I would like for Jappleton to be added to the people who get advanced copies of these books to build hype.

[Evaar]

It would be useful to have a mechanically proficient perspective on advance books. This is something missing from the broader D&D community as far as I've seen, especially from the player side. That's something this forum, and jaapleton as a representative of this forum, would provide to help the optimization-focused players get interested.

Like honestly, it's pretty slim pickings for mechanically sophisticated takes on material. I've watched many of the various YouTube channels who do optimization/builds/analysis and, with a few exceptions, it ain't great! Not to mention I don't really want to watch a 45 minute video about two subclasses that just repeats watch their features are and adds "Sounds pretty cool, I'd probably play an (insert most obvious race choice) of this!" But setting aside me being a curmudgeon, forum posts are often a superior format to the YouTube video when trying to ascertain the content of an upcoming book and whether it's worth the purchase.

[Brookshw]

I have five young boys, with a sixth on the way.

You poor bastard I have half that number and they keep me running around like crazy.

[dafrca]

WotC;

I'd like jaapleton's name added to the list of people that get advanced copies.

[jaappleton]

I have been informed that, unfortunately, they "aren't going to be able to work something out" regarding preview copies.

Its what I expected. Still very glad that I tried, and truly, I am incredibly thankful to the community for rallying as you all have. Words can't properly express how much that support has meant.

This is quite likely some bitterness and jealousy on my end, however... This is what I don't understand;

There's people with completely defunct blogs that still get preview copies, and they don't blog about it. Just post little tidbits about it on Twitter, getting next to zero engagement. And they get every book.

Here, with you all, that engagement, views and replies are 10x that amount, and I'm told nothing can be worked out.

Its disheartening. And I fully understand, market research dictates that 'influencers' and video are the most consumed formats regarding information, and that same research dictates that forums are a dead format.

To which I say, "Discord is a forum, many regard social media as a cesspool, and video format typically can't be consumed at work or while at home with the kids watching Cocomelon on every TV screen, people still want to consume text"

I asked for a criteria, some goal to shoot for to be considered further. I fully expect that I won't receive a response. Maybe its because I'm just some person on a forum wanting to showcase the books via a 'dead format', maybe they saw my posts and realized I've been giving startlingly accurate 'informed opinions' and they aren't fans of that, who knows? Couldn't tell you, because they won't tell me.

I suppose it is what it is.

.....Not going to stop trying, though.

[Segev]

I have been informed that, unfortunately, they "aren't going to be able to work something out" regarding preview copies.

Its what I expected. Still very glad that I tried, and truly, I am incredibly thankful to the community for rallying as you all have. Words can't properly express how much that support has meant.

This is quite likely some bitterness and jealousy on my end, however... This is what I don't understand;

There's people with completely defunct blogs that still get preview copies, and they don't blog about it. Just post little tidbits about it on Twitter, getting next to zero engagement. And they get every book.

Here, with you all, that engagement, views and replies are 10x that amount, and I'm told nothing can be worked out.

Its disheartening. And I fully understand, market research dictates that 'influencers' and video are the most consumed formats regarding information, and that same research dictates that forums are a dead format.

To which I say, "Discord is a forum, many regard social media as a cesspool, and video format typically can't be consumed at work or while at home with the kids watching Cocomelon on every TV screen, people still want to consume text"

I asked for a criteria, some goal to shoot for to be considered further. I fully expect that I won't receive a response. Maybe its because I'm just some person on a forum wanting to showcase the books via a 'dead format', maybe they saw my posts and realized I've been giving startlingly accurate 'informed opinions' and they aren't fans of that, who knows? Couldn't tell you, because they won't tell me.

I suppose it is what it is.

.....Not going to stop trying, though.

Given this, and noting that you've got no time to make your own videos or the like, you might look into a partner who does have that kind of time. Either somebody already doing this - and thus who has preview copies - whom you could work with, making your posts here with the arrangement that he'll get to use/reference them in his videos. Or blog, or whatever.

Another somewhat-low-extra-effort approach might be just to start a wordpress blog, and copy all of your forum posts you feel are the sort that warrant the preview copies into that blog. You don't even have to go back and put old posts in there if you don't want to; just, whenever you post here and it's the sort of post you think makes your work worthy of preview copies, copy it to that blog. Put a link to your blog in your signature, and, when you post here, link to the same post in your blog. (Might double-check with Roland St. Jude that that's not violating any "no advertising" rules, but I don't think it is.)

Anyway, just trying to offer suggestions. Good luck, sir!

And congratulations, again, on the family and especially the new little one. Any of them old enough to play RPGs with, yet?

[Cicciograna]

jaappleton, if you ever decide to open some kind of blog, Youtube channel, Discord or any other channel of communication with the world, know thee that you have my sword, my bow, my axe and your brother. Count me as one of your subscribers.

[Shadean207]

I would like jaappleton to be added to the list of people that get advanced copies.

Getting official news from this forum would be an absolute blessing; you have my full support!

[Mud Puppy]

I'd like to see your name added to the list of people that get advanced copies, so you can share them with me here. Heck yeah I would!

[Xervous]

Discord would be my preferred type of communication channel over YouTube or a blog. It’s easier to engage in discussions, it’s easier to preserve, emphasize and search information, and it’s not Brought to You By Raid Shadow Legends.

[Dork_Forge]

I have been informed that, unfortunately, they "aren't going to be able to work something out" regarding preview copies.

Its what I expected. Still very glad that I tried, and truly, I am incredibly thankful to the community for rallying as you all have. Words can't properly express how much that support has meant.

This is quite likely some bitterness and jealousy on my end, however... This is what I don't understand;

There's people with completely defunct blogs that still get preview copies, and they don't blog about it. Just post little tidbits about it on Twitter, getting next to zero engagement. And they get every book.

Here, with you all, that engagement, views and replies are 10x that amount, and I'm told nothing can be worked out.

Its disheartening. And I fully understand, market research dictates that 'influencers' and video are the most consumed formats regarding information, and that same research dictates that forums are a dead format.

To which I say, "Discord is a forum, many regard social media as a cesspool, and video format typically can't be consumed at work or while at home with the kids watching Cocomelon on every TV screen, people still want to consume text"

I asked for a criteria, some goal to shoot for to be considered further. I fully expect that I won't receive a response. Maybe its because I'm just some person on a forum wanting to showcase the books via a 'dead format', maybe they saw my posts and realized I've been giving startlingly accurate 'informed opinions' and they aren't fans of that, who knows? Couldn't tell you, because they won't tell me.

I suppose it is what it is.

.....Not going to stop trying, though.

Sorry you didn't get it, but I understand their decision somewhat:

Whilst some people regard social media as a cesspool, that obviously isn't the mainstream idea, or they'd be much smaller/die off. Just because negative things can happen on the platform doesn't mean that it isn't a massive audience, particularly one those in the industry use frequently. If you don't pay any attention to Twitter, then you're just not learning certain things when they become available, and if you are, then good chance you learned it from someone that doesn't embargo the platform.

I have no idea how forums track theses things, but at the very least YT prevents double views counting from the same viewer, and for all but the largest of channels most views don't actually come from subscribers.

They may not actually care about engagement all that much, but more eyeballs, whilst there's certainly engagement on the forum, that's typically back and forth between users and we're probably one of the most critical audiences they have.

On the whole YT thing: I more often use YT as audio than I do as a visual format, it's in another tab on the side or ripped into an mp3 file, I think you can even use it like that if you pay for the membership they have and some creators offer podcast versions of their content.

For a forum like this to get preview copies, I think there would have to be a very impressive metric, and likely actual association with the forum itself, by and large, those who get previews are some form of business, to make an exception to that would have to be extraordinary.

Separately:

When people get preview copies they tend to get posted and discussed here anyway. That talk is already happening here with no additional cost/risk on WotC's part. I'd also wager that conversation would happen a lot faster than one person being a member here getting a copy, since it's just faster to make video content than transcribe a book, and someone can post about it when they see it, rather than that one person doing it when they have the time.

You've brought valuable information to the forums, but let's be honest, that's because it was information whatever book at the time is out there. It's early access. Do you actually think that getting preview copies would be the same, when you openly state how little free time you have?

[jaappleton]

Sorry you didn't get it, but I understand their decision somewhat:

Whilst some people regard social media as a cesspool, that obviously isn't the mainstream idea, or they'd be much smaller/die off. Just because negative things can happen on the platform doesn't mean that it isn't a massive audience, particularly one those in the industry use frequently. If you don't pay any attention to Twitter, then you're just not learning certain things when they become available, and if you are, then good chance you learned it from someone that doesn't embargo the platform.

I have no idea how forums track theses things, but at the very least YT prevents double views counting from the same viewer, and for all but the largest of channels most views don't actually come from subscribers.

They may not actually care about engagement all that much, but more eyeballs, whilst there's certainly engagement on the forum, that's typically back and forth between users and we're probably one of the most critical audiences they have.

On the whole YT thing: I more often use YT as audio than I do as a visual format, it's in another tab on the side or ripped into an mp3 file, I think you can even use it like that if you pay for the membership they have and some creators offer podcast versions of their content.

For a forum like this to get preview copies, I think there would have to be a very impressive metric, and likely actual association with the forum itself, by and large, those who get previews are some form of business, to make an exception to that would have to be extraordinary.

Separately:

When people get preview copies they tend to get posted and discussed here anyway. That talk is already happening here with no additional cost/risk on WotC's part. I'd also wager that conversation would happen a lot faster than one person being a member here getting a copy, since it's just faster to make video content than transcribe a book, and someone can post about it when they see it, rather than that one person doing it when they have the time.

You've brought valuable information to the forums, but let's be honest, that's because it was information whatever book at the time is out there. It's early access. Do you actually think that getting preview copies would be the same, when you openly state how little free time you have?

I don't take issue with their decision making so much as ask, "Why not?" Why not one more? They already give out 50+ preview copies, between YTers, journalists, bloggers and twitter influencers. I don't see the harm in one more.

While I openly admit to how little free time I have, it was more a comment as to how difficult it'd be to do something regularly. A YT channel or blog that's updated twice a week, or even once a week. How often does a print book release? Think they're up to 1.25 books per quarter now, on average? That sounds approximate.

And FWIW, the information I've brought has seldom been from actual books. Its often from unreleased, unannounced products.

THAT I can certainly see them taking issue with. >_> However, I've no idea if they're even aware of that, and... I don't want to find out.

Though if I must make a choice, I'd much rather continue to get leaks from my various contacts than preview copies of print books.

[Kane0]

Though if I must make a choice, I'd much rather continue to get leaks from my various contacts than preview copies of print books.

And it's much appreciated

[Xervous]

Whilst some people regard social media as a cesspool, that obviously isn't the mainstream idea, or they'd be much smaller/die off. Just because negative things can happen on the platform doesn't mean that it isn't a massive audience, particularly one those in the industry use frequently. If you don't pay any attention to Twitter, then you're just not learning certain things when they become available, and if you are, then good chance you learned it from someone that doesn't embargo the platform.

We’ve got statistical proof it is the cesspool nature that retains people on social media. Inflammatory and sensational content gets more engagement which in turn drives the algorithms.

I mean, just look at how many massive threads Tasha’s Cauldron of Excrement spawned.

[Willie the Duck]

Buncha stuff to unpack, and do so in a nuanced way that won’t cause hard feelings.
First of all, on a personal level, sorry that you didn’t get access to preview copies. I have yet to have met the clear and obvious most brilliant mind of GitP posters, but there is clearly a group of people who definitively ‘put in the work’ and you fit solidly in that camp. If anyone here deserved this, it would be you. Whether anyone here deserves this, man do I have mixed feelings…

Its disheartening. And I fully understand, market research dictates that 'influencers' and video are the most consumed formats regarding information, and that same research dictates that forums are a dead format.
To which I say, "Discord is a forum, many regard social media as a cesspool, and video format typically can't be consumed at work or while at home with the kids watching Cocomelon on every TV screen, people still want to consume text"

This is one of those weird hair-splitting things where one has to decide whether Thing A is also Thing B because they share like traits. Are cable access shows the same as cable network programming? Should ‘movies’ that went straight to streaming be Oscar contenders? Is a blog post entering something into the public record? So on and so forth.
Discord is a forum. Reddit is effectively a huge general-purpose forum. Facebook and Twitter in many ways act very similar to forums. In some ways, they very much are forums, yet in other ways they are what replaced forums. Or perhaps have such a hegemonic relationship with other forums that they become a distinct thing simply with terms of impact, reach or scale.
One thing I think Reddit and Youtube and Facebook have is that they reach a different group of gamers than forums. Possibly those that more closely resemble their customer base as a whole. It doesn’t surprise me that WotC considers that a more fruitful venue, and is limiting their distribution to forumites to people like Morrus (especially since, were they to make an exception for jaappleton, there’d be someone else who would want an explanation as to why they didn’t get one). I think what’s really more surprising is that you say that there are bloggers who get copies moreso than that you don’t, as I think blogs are generally seen as ‘on the way out’ as well as forums.

[jaappleton]

Buncha stuff to unpack, and do so in a nuanced way that won’t cause hard feelings.
First of all, on a personal level, sorry that you didn’t get access to preview copies. I have yet to have met the clear and obvious most brilliant mind of GitP posters, but there is clearly a group of people who definitively ‘put in the work’ and you fit solidly in that camp. If anyone here deserved this, it would be you. Whether anyone here deserves this, man do I have mixed feelings…

This is one of those weird hair-splitting things where one has to decide whether Thing A is also Thing B because they share like traits. Are cable access shows the same as cable network programming? Should ‘movies’ that went straight to streaming be Oscar contenders? Is a blog post entering something into the public record? So on and so forth.
Discord is a forum. Reddit is effectively a huge general-purpose forum. Facebook and Twitter in many ways act very similar to forums. In some ways, they very much are forums, yet in other ways they are what replaced forums. Or perhaps have such a hegemonic relationship with other forums that they become a distinct thing simply with terms of impact, reach or scale.
One thing I think Reddit and Youtube and Facebook have is that they reach a different group of gamers than forums. Possibly those that more closely resemble their customer base as a whole. It doesn’t surprise me that WotC considers that a more fruitful venue, and is limiting their distribution to forumites to people like Morrus (especially since, were they to make an exception for jaappleton, there’d be someone else who would want an explanation as to why they didn’t get one). I think what’s really more surprising is that you say that there are bloggers who get copies moreso than that you don’t, as I think blogs are generally seen as ‘on the way out’ as well as forums.

I consider most non-traditional forum based content (So things like YT, Facebook, Twitter, etc) as "algorithm driven", to where it actively collects your data in an attempt to feed you new posts/videos/etc.

Traditional, 'old school' forums like GITP (Not even Reddit qualifies here, because that's algorithm driven) have the user seek out those new posts / topics.

And, for better or worse... Everything needs to 'feed the algorithm'.

Maybe this is a bit too much 'old man yells at cloud', but I'd rather not feed the algorithm, personally. I like what I like, and I don't need it crammed down my eye sockets with every link I click. I'd rather get to that new, undiscovered, similar content at my leisure.

[Dork_Forge]

I don't take issue with their decision making so much as ask, "Why not?" Why not one more? They already give out 50+ preview copies, between YTers, journalists, bloggers and twitter influencers. I don't see the harm in one more.

You don't see the harm in one more, because you're the one applying for it. I sincerely doubt you're the only person wanting preview copies and the more people that get access to preview copies the stronger the case of the remaining voices become.

And if you want a more cynical answer: It's a very real, ongoing business expense for them to hand over free copies and cover shipping. There is no evidence that you, or anyone here, having preview copies would sell more books, especially when preview content from YTers achieves the same thing: making threads that get engaged with.

While I openly admit to how little free time I have, it was more a comment as to how difficult it'd be to do something regularly. A YT channel or blog that's updated twice a week, or even once a week. How often does a print book release? Think they're up to 1.25 books per quarter now, on average? That sounds approximate.

Witchlight came out in September

Fizban's came out in October

Strixhaven will be early December

the boxset with the new Mordenkainen book will be early January

It doesn't matter what it averages to, that's pretty much a book a month right now.

I don't mean this harshly, I make my living right now writing D&D content and covering new releases has become a part of that. Just reading a book cover to cover and actually absorbing it is very, very time-consuming. Relaying or making meaningful content out of that is even more so.

And FWIW, the information I've brought has seldom been from actual books. Its often from unreleased, unannounced products.

...my point was that you give info from books before they're out, renaming it as unannounced products is the same thing. You get snippets and rumours whilst they're still in development stages.

My point was do you really think you'd be able to make timely posts that have the same amount of engagement when it's on preview books instead of unannounced? Because as soon as you get access it basically becomes a race between you doing that and someone posting a YT video here that covers it.

THAT I can certainly see them taking issue with. >_> However, I've no idea if they're even aware of that, and... I don't want to find out.

You very openly declare that you get these things and that you get them from staff members.

If didn't want the company at large knowing that, then I have no idea why you would apply for preview books and then point them to where you release that information and make those statements.

Though if I must make a choice, I'd much rather continue to get leaks from my various contacts than preview copies of print books.

And that's of much more value to the forum than 'just one more' person getting preview copies.

As long as no forum gets preview copies, they have no reason to justify their decision to anyone, just say 'we don't give forums copies' but the moment that dam breaks it becomes harder.

We’ve got statistical proof it is the cesspool nature that retains people on social media. Inflammatory and sensational content gets more engagement which in turn drives the algorithms.

I mean, just look at how many massive threads Tasha’s Cauldron of Excrement spawned.

Not touching this with a +3 ten ft pole.

[jaappleton]

You very openly declare that you get these things and that you get them from staff members.

Forge,

You've made some quite good points in that post. I hadn't realized how many books had come out recently, since I typically just focus on player options.

But I wanted to address this quoted point specifically:

I've never, not once, actually told the truth about where I get my information from.

I think you completely understand why.

[rlc]

Jaappleton is actually a traveler from the d&d multiverse

[KorvinStarmast]

jaappleton, if you ever decide to open some kind of blog, Youtube channel, Discord or any other channel of communication with the world, know thee that you have my sword, my bow, my axe and your brother.

And you have my keyboard. (But with six kids, maybe starting a blog isn't the greatest idea ever. not sure how you budget your time, but that's a handful right there!

I mean, just look at how many massive threads Tasha’s Cauldron of Excrement spawned.

On the mechanical side, it had a few neat additions. I am hoping to play a Watcher Oath Paladin soon ... in a game world where things dribbling in from other planes is a commonplace.

[KOLE]

Coming out of retirement to add my name to the list. I've always really appreciated your contributions to this forum.

EDIT: Well, I should have probably read the rest of the thread before coming out of retirement. Sorry Jaapleton. But I do mean it, you're a solid human being and I appreciate what you do around here. I mostly lurk, but what you and the other crew of regulars do around here is always noticed and appreciated. Keep your chin up.

[Phhase]

Blast. Uptight damned Wizards can't be arsed to curate their media preview distributions, can they? Well, here's to hope, good on ya for the effort JA.