Feats for a new druid

[Moonrabbit]

I am joining an ongoing campaign and will playing a fairy moon druid (starting at level 10). I have been considering different sets of feats and would appreciate others' opinions on my proposed selection. We are using point buy, so my starting Wis without feats will be 16 or 17. I am thinking of the following for my feats:

Level 4: War Caster (if starting Con 16) or Resilient: Con (if starting Con 15)

Level 8: Telepathic, Fey touched, or Observant (if starting Wis 17) or ASI (if starting Wis 16)

Level 12: ASI

Level 16: Resilient: Con or War Caster (whichever one is not taken at level 4)

Level 19: Lucky or Mobile

At level 10, there is virtually no difference between the effects of Resilient (15 Con) and War Caster (16 Con) for maintaining spell concentration, so I would probably elect to take the former for my level 4 feat (for added HP and its benefit to general Con saves). In the long run, I believe there is value to having both feats for higher (say 14+) DCs where the difference in the probability of successfully maintaining concentration over the better of the two individual feats can be >0.20.

In terms of my level 8 feat, it then boils down to the value placed on any of the half feats vs. a higher base stat and taking a straight ASI. While fey touched provides a lot of flexibility (since the spells can be cast using druid slots), I do not think misty step will be all that useful for a character that can move in the Z axis. Misty step also eats a bonus action, which potentially conflicts with uses of Wildshape. Observant is pretty strong as long as the DM pays attention to it. However, for a moon druid, I would think telepathic could be quite useful for allowing two-way communications (telepathic vs. verbal) with party members while in beast form. The rate limiter would seem to be the 60' distance. Can others comment on their perspectives on the utility of the telepathic feat vs. observant (or other Wis-based half feats)?

Regarding the level 19 feat (should I get there), it seems to me that lucky would trump anything else. Mobile would add to add to my walking and flight speeds OOC and to my speed(s) as a beast. It would also allow me to move in, attack, and move out without risk of an OA while in combat. This would be of greatest use for beasts with a high base speed. I have read anecdotes where people claim Mobile is particularly useful for beasts with a pounce or charge mechanic, but I am not seeing the specific synergy. There are some damage-based feats, particularly from Tasha's) that could be useful while in beast form (e.g., savage attacker [depending on how DM interprets the description], charger, crusher, piercer), but I do not think any of these would add tremendously to my melee weapon attack damage. The utility of lucky or mobile would feel to be greater.

Some other factors to consider. Magic initiate could be taken for Mage armor, Booming Blade, and something else (e.g., Green-Flame Blade). This would give a use of mage armor for wildshape and buff staff melee damage significantly when coupled with shillelagh. However, as a moon druid, I do not expect to be spending a lot of time whacking things with a stick. If mage armor was of sole interest, then Eldritch Adept: Armor of Shadows (Tasha's) would arguably be a better feat. I would prioritize both of these feats less than the concentration buffs and ASIs, so unless I elected to play a variant human, the mage armor would not come online until level 19, which is late in the game or never. Additionally, there are magic items that can bolster AC while in beast form (e.g., barrier tattoo, staff of defense).

Any other feats I should be considering? Thanks in advance!

[ftafp]

I am joining an ongoing campaign and will playing a fairy moon druid (starting at level 10). I have been considering different sets of feats and would appreciate others' opinions on my proposed selection. We are using point buy, so my starting Wis without feats will be 16 or 17. I am thinking of the following for my feats:

Level 4: War Caster (if starting Con 16) or Resilient: Con (if starting Con 15)

Level 8: Telepathic, Fey touched, or Observant (if starting Wis 17) or ASI (if starting Wis 16)

Level 12: ASI

Level 16: Resilient: Con or War Caster (whichever one is not taken at level 4)

Level 19: Lucky or Mobile

At level 10, there is virtually no difference between the effects of Resilient (15 Con) and War Caster (16 Con) for maintaining spell concentration, so I would probably elect to take the former for my level 4 feat (for added HP and its benefit to general Con saves). In the long run, I believe there is value to having both feats for higher (say 14+) DCs where the difference in the probability of successfully maintaining concentration over the better of the two individual feats can be >0.20.

In terms of my level 8 feat, it then boils down to the value placed on any of the half feats vs. a higher base stat and taking a straight ASI. While fey touched provides a lot of flexibility (since the spells can be cast using druid slots), I do not think misty step will be all that useful for a character that can move in the Z axis. Misty step also eats a bonus action, which potentially conflicts with uses of Wildshape. Observant is pretty strong as long as the DM pays attention to it. However, for a moon druid, I would think telepathic could be quite useful for allowing two-way communications (telepathic vs. verbal) with party members while in beast form. The rate limiter would seem to be the 60' distance. Can others comment on their perspectives on the utility of the telepathic feat vs. observant (or other Wis-based half feats)?

Regarding the level 19 feat (should I get there), it seems to me that lucky would trump anything else. Mobile would add to add to my walking and flight speeds OOC and to my speed(s) as a beast. It would also allow me to move in, attack, and move out without risk of an OA while in combat. This would be of greatest use for beasts with a high base speed. I have read anecdotes where people claim Mobile is particularly useful for beasts with a pounce or charge mechanic, but I am not seeing the specific synergy. There are some damage-based feats, particularly from Tasha's) that could be useful while in beast form (e.g., savage attacker [depending on how DM interprets the description], charger, crusher, piercer), but I do not think any of these would add tremendously to my melee weapon attack damage. The utility of lucky or mobile would feel to be greater.

Some other factors to consider. Magic initiate could be taken for Mage armor, Booming Blade, and something else (e.g., Green-Flame Blade). This would give a use of mage armor for wildshape and buff staff melee damage significantly when coupled with shillelagh. However, as a moon druid, I do not expect to be spending a lot of time whacking things with a stick. If mage armor was of sole interest, then Eldritch Adept: Armor of Shadows (Tasha's) would arguably be a better feat. I would prioritize both of these feats less than the concentration buffs and ASIs, so unless I elected to play a variant human, the mage armor would not come online until level 19, which is late in the game or never. Additionally, there are magic items that can bolster AC while in beast form (e.g., barrier tattoo, staff of defense).

Any other feats I should be considering? Thanks in advance!

warcaster, res:con, fey touched(gift of alacrity) and lucky are about the best you can get right now

[Moonrabbit]

Thanks for following up... and for confirming my thoughts to a large degree. I will see if my DM would allow selection of gift of alacrity given that it is a chronurgy spell (i.e., comes from the Eberron campaign). I had not realized that misty step could be used to teleport upward (the wording of spell makes no reference to direction). This makes it more useful.

[Emongnome777]

I'm always partial to Resilient over Warcaster, but I'd take Warcaster when I get good use from the "other" 2 bullet points from the feat (hands full casting and cantrip OA).

Fey Touched is awesome, even if you can't get Gift of Alacrity (which is what I took with my wizard at level 12).

Consider Telekinetic as another option. This will depend on whether you can use the push/pull bonus action while in wildshape (rulebook isn't handy right now so I can't say). I prefer it over Telepathic, but I guess communication while wildshaped is cool, too.

Figure out your half-feats with Wisdom then make sure it's at 20 by 12th level. This isn't a rule and not everyone agrees, but in general, I build characters to have a 20 in their primary ability score by 12th level (occasionally sooner).

I typically focus more on ASIs, with the most character-building feats to round it out. A moon druid, however, doesn't need ASIs, which it looks like you've already taken into account. Other than Resilient making Con an even number (right?), you don't need to beef any secondary stats, really.

Plenty of cool options, and stuff like observant, mobile, alert, lucky etc, can round it out and make it fun.

[Moonrabbit]

I'm always partial to Resilient over Warcaster, but I'd take Warcaster when I get good use from the "other" 2 bullet points from the feat (hands full casting and cantrip OA).

Fey Touched is awesome, even if you can't get Gift of Alacrity (which is what I took with my wizard at level 12).

Consider Telekinetic as another option. This will depend on whether you can use the push/pull bonus action while in wildshape (rulebook isn't handy right now so I can't say). I prefer it over Telepathic, but I guess communication while wildshaped is cool, too.

Figure out your half-feats with Wisdom then make sure it's at 20 by 12th level. This isn't a rule and not everyone agrees, but in general, I build characters to have a 20 in their primary ability score by 12th level (occasionally sooner).

I typically focus more on ASIs, with the most character-building feats to round it out. A moon druid, however, doesn't need ASIs, which it looks like you've already taken into account. Other than Resilient making Con an even number (right?), you don't need to beef any secondary stats, really.

Plenty of cool options, and stuff like observant, mobile, alert, lucky etc, can round it out and make it fun.

Thanks for the input. Yes, there are a lot of cool possibilities, but options become limited if goals include getting a 20 Wis and both Resilient: Con and War Caster. The benefit of having both Resilient and War Caster over having either one alone is striking, particularly for high DCs. Realistically, this leaves me the option to take a half-feat (with starting Wis of 17) and Lucky or something else at 19th level. Or go vhuman...

[Gignere]

Thanks for the input. Yes, there are a lot of cool possibilities, but options become limited if goals include getting a 20 Wis and both Resilient: Con and War Caster. The benefit of having both Resilient and War Caster over having either one alone is striking, particularly for high DCs. Realistically, this leaves me the option to take a half-feat (with starting Wis of 17) and Lucky or something else at 19th level. Or go vhuman...

Actually given so much of Druid casting is independent of wisdom but requires concentration your best bet is to make it just about impossible to lose concentration before maxing casting stat. Particularly for a moon Druid who will be likely front lining it while concentrating on a summon or conjure spell.

[Havlock]

Yep thats good advice. Maxing wis is not a priority for a moon druid, maintaining concentration is.

That said, my favorite feat for a moon druid is a few levels of barbarian har har.

[prototype00]

I must say I got a lot of value out of Mobile for a Moon Druid (basically selecting all the pounce-type wildshapes and reactivating the ability every round).

It reached it's zenith when I got Earth Elemental shape where I was running in and out of walls to punch things and the enemies had no recourse to attack or even target me unless they could get through 10ft of solid rock.

A worthwhile pick after Warcaster and Res (Con) I feel.

[Moonrabbit]

I must say I got a lot of value out of Mobile for a Moon Druid (basically selecting all the pounce-type wildshapes and reactivating the ability every round).

It reached it's zenith when I got Earth Elemental shape where I was running in and out of walls to punch things and the enemies had no recourse to attack or even target me unless they could get through 10ft of solid rock.

A worthwhile pick after Warcaster and Res (Con) I feel.

Can you provide more detail on the mechanics of mobile with shapes having the pounce or charge ability? My read is that it provide extra speed, allowing the druid to cover more ground to the target, and negates opportunity attacks. How does it interact with pounce or charge (if it does at all)?

[Havlock]

The extra 10ft of movement that the mobile feat gives you can be a huge benefit. As a moon druid you're always wanting to be in melee range and not all of the beast forms have the movement speed to consistently make that happen. The extra +10 may not sound like a lot but boy, its sneaky good.

Combine with a no-concentration longstrider buff for another +10 and now something like a Giant Octopus form which is normally a pretty much stationary blob, becomes a 30ft movement + 15ft reach grappling behemoth.

With charge/pounce forms like the Giant Elk you can charge in, attack, and immediately disengage without worry of OAs, and easily setup another charge next round. Rinse & repeat.

[Moonrabbit]

The extra 10ft of movement that the mobile feat gives you can be a huge benefit. As a moon druid you're always wanting to be in melee range and not all of the beast forms have the movement speed to consistently make that happen. The extra +10 may not sound like a lot but boy, its sneaky good.

Combine with a no-concentration longstrider buff for another +10 and now something like a Giant Octopus form which is normally a pretty much stationary blob, becomes a 30ft movement + 15ft reach grappling behemoth.

With charge/pounce forms like the Giant Elk you can charge in, attack, and immediately disengage without worry of OAs, and easily setup another charge next round. Rinse & repeat.

Ah, now it's clear. It's the ability to gain distance to charge from round to round. Thanks for the clarification.

[Havlock]

Sorry to derail the thread some but I feel compelled to sing the virtues of 3-6 levels of Ancestral Guardian Barbarian to combine with moon druid.

There are cons with the build: low damage output, delaying the better wildshape forms, and obviously reduced spell caster lvls. But in combat about all you're giving up in tactics is your round 1 summon type concentration spell. You're still an excellent utility caster and wildshape is still highly effective even with CR 1 or 2 forms.

In exchange for that single concentration spell you get to be, IMO, the absolute best tank in the game. Let's run through the highlights...

- rage to take half damage on physical attacks. This will typically double your wildshape forms effective HPs. Ex: that CR1 Giant Octopus now essentially has 104 HPs. AND you're basically doubling the effectiveness of your combat wildshape "use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain 1d8 hit points per level of the spell slot" ability.

- rage gives advantage on str checks and grappling is a fantastic way to lock down a foe. You'll definitely be taking advantage of that

- unarmored defense bumps the AC on some forms a bit ... tho honestly I just mention it for completeness. It doesn't make much diff

- recless attack so your low attack bonus forms will still have a reasonable chance to keep up. That really starts to matter against high AC opponents later in the game

- ancestral protectors mean a single high damage opponent has little choice but to attack exclusively you. This is a huge benefit to the rest of the party and you really have to see it in action to appreciate how amazing it is at locking a single opponent on you. (edit: and just because that opponent is strongly compelled to attack you, that doesn't mean you have to stand there and let them do it. You can totally use that mobile feat to walk away from them and use your extreme movement to kite them all day long)

- and if you keep going to lvls5/6 you add extra attack (tho only helpful for forms lacking multi-attack), an extra 10ft movement, and spirit shield for more damage mitigation for your allies.

Oh and as for your stats, well you don't really care about them. Physical stats are all replaced by your wildshape forms anyway, int and charisma are still meh as always, and wisdom doesn't mean much for you. Leave wis at 16 and you'll be fine. You don't even care about concentration so no warcaster feat tax. Instead of stat bumps you can pile on all sorts of fantastic flavourful feats like mobile, lucky, fey touched, telepathy, etc.

All for just giving up on the idea of keeping a concentration spell up during combat.. thats just wow. So wow.

[Gignere]

All for just giving up on the idea of keeping a concentration spell up during combat.. thats just wow. So wow.

Unfortunately druids has some of the best concentration spells in the game. Certainly in t2 and t3. Just summoning a bunch of cr 1/4 critters will be way way more damage and damage sponge than anything a few rages per day can provide.

[Havlock]

Oh absolutely awesome concentration spells on the druid. For sure. I think mixing barbarian trades offensive capability for more defensive and makes for a really fun build but going full druid is fantastic too. Different stroke for different folks.

[Moonrabbit]

I am inclined to agree with the poster above about maxing out druid. I do not want to put myself behind in terms of spellcasting and wildshape, and no one else in my party is multi-classing (which is honestly a refreshing change).


Our DM approved my taking the Fey Touched feat with the gift of alacrity spell. In thinking about my options a bit more, I would like others' thoughts on gift of alacrity vs. hex. Hex would provide a decent boost to single-target damage when in forms with multi-attack (e.g., giant scorpion) and could also be used to debuff target strength or dexterity for grapples and shoves (e.g., to push target into the spike growth). However, the downsides are that it would be yet another concentration spell (i.e., compete with summon beast, hold person, conjure animals, conjure woodland beings, heat metal, faerie fire, maelstrom, and pretty much all other good damage-over-time and crowd control spells) and have a casting time of 1 bonus action (meaning I could not use wildshape in the same round). I guess the least opportunity cost for casting hex would be faerie fire or entangle, and the value of getting initiative to cast faerie fire before enemies or other party members attack would be significant. This does not count the benefits of sharing gift of alacrity with other party members. Anny dissenting opinions?