A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Good stuff here so I only have a few points to add:

    The illusionist first appears in The Strategic Review (the precursor to Dragon magazine) and then got into 1st Ed with a few modifications.

    The assassin was neutral at first but was evil by first edition.

    While not a skill system per se, there was a “background table” in 1st Ed that one could roll on (or have the DM roll on, as it was in the DMG).

    In unearthed arcana first edition the paladin changed from subclass of fighter to subclass of cavalier. In 2nd Ed they, the ranger and the fighter became part of the warrior group. In 3rd Ed and after they are classes in their own right.

    Another point of interest is that with first edition, if you didn’t go bard or use the special dual class rules, multiclassing was a decision you had to make at chargen. If you we an elf you would need to decide to be a fighter/magic-user/thief at level 1/1/1 rather than start fighter, then pick up magic-user at a higher level, then pick up thief later still. Except for some “start with half a level in each of two classes” rules, the old multi-class idea was replaced with something more like dual-classing in 3rd edition.

    Oh yeah there was something else in earlier editions: The zero level npc (usually, except for one adventure module I think) character! And with the cavalier you even could have the negative level pc character (a less than upper class squire that had to earn their way up to 0 experience points).

    By third edition, you had npc commoners but even the lowliest was at least a level one commoner.

    Light the lamp not the rat LIGHT THE LAMP NOT THE RAT!!!

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    And in 5e, the idea of NPC classes as such went away entirely. Classes are for PCs and only optionally for use in constructing NPCs. 5e commoners are just commoners, no class levels at all. Even the closest MM NPCs (like the various Evoker, Archmage, etc ones) don't have all the class features and proficiencies, nor are they built exactly the same.

    And there's a book coming out that will shift even most of those away even more from the class level paradigm by converting many spells/spell slots to x/day, recharge, and at will abilities (ie can cast x , y, and z 3x/day each).
    Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
    PhoenixPhyre's Extended Homebrew Signature
    5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Apr 2007

    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The bard used to have this weird thing where you became one by starting as fighter for some levels, then wizard for some more levels, then rogue for some more (I forget exactly how many), making it effectively the first Prestige Class in D&D. 2nd edition made it a regular class instead, and one that levels really quickly.

    HTH!
    Just wanted to clarify in case it is important to anyone: to become a Bard you started as a Fighter, then became a Thief, and finally adding Druid made you a Bard.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    And there's a book coming out that will shift even most of those away even more from the class level paradigm by converting many spells/spell slots to x/day, recharge, and at will abilities (ie can cast x , y, and z 3x/day each).
    What book is this: Srixhaven?
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    What book is this: Srixhaven?
    The "new" MM-style one supposedly coming out...next year is it? I forget.
    Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
    PhoenixPhyre's Extended Homebrew Signature
    5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    The "new" MM-style one supposedly coming out...next year is it? I forget.
    Oh, yeah, another Mord's kind of thing?
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    It strikes me that sneak attack in AD&D sounds scary but really isn't. Rogues don't qualify for "exceptional strength", can't take weapon specialization, and have fairly limited proficiency. So a rogue might deal 1d6+1 damage on a regular attack, and 2d6+2 or even 3d6+3 on a sneak attack... and that's just fairly lacklustre when a fighter does 1d10+6 on a regular hit and gets more attacks.
    Before 3E, you weren't assumed to be facing opposition that was the same level as you were at all times. An orc chieftain who raises a warband to ravage the countryside has 4HD whether the PCs are 1st level or 10th. A 9th level thief wasn't expected to use backstab to duel 9th level Orc warlords. You were expected to Move Silently and Hide in Shadows to infiltrate the orc camp and one-shot that 4HD orc general so your Fighter friend and his loyal band of retainers and (somewhat) loyal platoon of hired mercenaries will have an easier time defeating the orcs on the battlefield the next day.
    The Curse of the House of Rookwood: Supernatural horror and family drama.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mordar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuc Xac View Post
    Before 3E, you weren't assumed to be facing opposition that was the same level as you were at all times. An orc chieftain who raises a warband to ravage the countryside has 4HD whether the PCs are 1st level or 10th. A 9th level thief wasn't expected to use backstab to duel 9th level Orc warlords. You were expected to Move Silently and Hide in Shadows to infiltrate the orc camp and one-shot that 4HD orc general so your Fighter friend and his loyal band of retainers and (somewhat) loyal platoon of hired mercenaries will have an easier time defeating the orcs on the battlefield the next day.
    ...or the guard outside the citadel, or the hobgoblin watching the road...

    In short, DPS wasn't a thing then. [Inflammatory statement]Not all games are MMOs, no matter what 4e wants you to believe[/Inflammatory statement].

    - M
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  9. - Top - End - #69
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Origin & Evolution of Player Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    There's some nice videos on the youtube channel DM It All on the origin of the monk and the rogue. They get into some of the history of those two classes... even if it's under the premise of calling them the 'worst' classes.
    I love those videos, and that channel

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