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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2021

    Default Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    I'm a second level ranger/peace cleric. A long bow sharpshooter, I currently have scale mail, so 16 AC but disadvantage on stealth. (Currently have +3 (16 dex) )

    I have just enough money to buy half-plate, but I will continue to have disadvantage. Or I could take half my money and have the same AC, but no disadvantage on stealth by buying breast plate. Or I could tough it out with what i have, and assume that once I can pass without trace, disadvantage on stealth is no longer a problem.

    In general, are there other ways to raise my AC?
    Last edited by redsonja; 2021-10-15 at 05:06 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    - Feats such as Medium Armor Expert (would get you 17 AC with scale mail, 18 with half plate, and negate the disadvantage to Stealth checks)

    - In combat obviously : get cover ! Behind your tank, behind a tree, behind a boulder, doesn't matter :
    1/2 cover= +2 to AC,
    3/4 cover = +5 to AC

    - In combat still : get down (free action, cost half your move to get back down) so long distance attacks have disadvantage (careful, melee attacks will have advantage instead)

    - magic items obviously

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    I would go with Half-Plate. As a Peace Cleric, you function best with a group. Solo scouting when your cleric template is based around buffing the group is counterproductive, so the disadvantage for stealth is kind of a non-issue, as I see it.

    Guidance can help round out the disadvantage on stealth until Pass Without a Trace comes online.

    The bigger issue I see is the tension between playing a ranged attacker and having to play in between ranges of your frontline and backline teammates so as to keep your benefits of Peace Cleric abilities up, since being within 30 feet is needed for Emboldening Bond.

    Archery is an incredibly strong choice of fighting style, but if there is a chance of having to mix it up in melee as well, perhaps choosing Defense would be a great alternative. Also, a Shield could be used while in Melee as well, so between Defense FS and a Shield, that is a +3 increase to AC. If going this route, be mindful of the impact this will have on casting spells if both hands are full. Depending on how far you dip Cleric and what your strategy for casting/ healing in battle is, Healing Word is Verbal only. A Sword and Shield melee combatant with Healing Word in his backpocket is a decent combat medic. Balm of Peace is not a spell, and Channel Divinity makes no mention of needing to be holdinh your Holy Symbol, so no restrictions re: needing a free hand for that Action. Goodberry from Ranger 2 covers out of combat healing.

    Now that I am reading all that, that kind of sounds like a fun character to play.
    Last edited by Chad.e.clark; 2021-10-15 at 05:54 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2019

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by redsonja View Post
    I'm a second level ranger/peace cleric. A long bow sharpshooter, I currently have scale mail, so 16 AC but disadvantage on stealth. (Currently have +3 (16 dex) )

    I have just enough money to buy half-plate, but I will continue to have disadvantage. Or I could take half my money and have the same AC, but no disadvantage on stealth by buying breast plate. Or I could tough it out with what i have, and assume that once I can pass without trace, disadvantage on stealth is no longer a problem.

    In general, are there other ways to raise my AC?
    I'd suggest that you will have more fun being better at stealth for now and that going from 17 to 16 AC with an archer isn't really that big a deal. If you want to reavulate when you get pass without trace in 4+ more levels then I'd do that then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad.e.clark View Post
    Guidance can help round out the disadvantage on stealth until Pass Without a Trace comes online.
    I think there's alot of IF's about whether this will be possible or even useful.

    • Does casting a somatic and verbal spell every minute make it easier for enemies to spot you?
    • Does casting a somatic and verbal spell every minute make it harder for you to perceive enemies or do other tasks?
    • Is it reasonable that your character is willing to spend 1/10th of his time while trying to be stealthy to repeatedly cast guidance on himself.
    • How much time is the DM going to add to your stealthing if you implement this tactic and is that time important?



    It's just not at all clear that the benefits will outweigh the costs for any given game.
    Last edited by Frogreaver; 2021-10-15 at 07:34 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by redsonja View Post
    I'm a second level ranger/peace cleric. A long bow sharpshooter, I currently have scale mail, so 16 AC but disadvantage on stealth. (Currently have +3 (16 dex) )

    I have just enough money to buy half-plate, but I will continue to have disadvantage. Or I could take half my money and have the same AC, but no disadvantage on stealth by buying breast plate. Or I could tough it out with what i have, and assume that once I can pass without trace, disadvantage on stealth is no longer a problem.

    In general, are there other ways to raise my AC?
    Any creature, including the companion a Beast Master (or, soon, Drakewarden) can get, can provide you with half cover, for +2 AC. If you're a Goblin or multiclass into Rogue, you can Hide as a Bonus Action, but this is generally impractical unless you also get your hands on a way to guarantee or make it very likely that battlefield conditions will make Hide legal - for example, Lightfoot Halflings, Wood Elves, and the Skulker feat all give you relevant ways to make Hiding more plausible. While Hidden, attackers generally won't know where you are, and if they do work out where you are, they're at disadvantage to hit you. Once you hit Ranger 10, if you're using Tasha's, you can turn invisible as bonus action pb/long rest, which is stupendous. Be aware that DM interpretation of the "rules" for locating an invisible creature vary widely, and you want to know before you commit your build to it how powerful or weak invisibility is under your DM.

    If you have any way to reload a crossbow without using either of your hands, you can use a shield - e.g. the new UA races Thri-Kreen, Plasmoid, and from what I can tell Hadozee have access to a limb that isn't a primary arm that can legally reload, but you can also get your hands on literally any Tiny creature with opposable thumbs, such as a Sprite or Imp or Tiny Servant, and have it ride your shoulder with a bundle of bolts strapped to its back. In any case, you switch to a shield and a hand crossbow, and now you have another +2 AC.

    Other options can come from your subclasses, like how you already have a subclass power that buffs your saves. As an example, a Swarmkeeper Ranger that hits level 11 can be in half cover at all times if they want.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogreaver View Post
    I'd suggest that you will have more fun being better at stealth for now and that going from 17 to 16 AC with an archer isn't really that big a deal. If you want to reavulate when you get pass without trace in 4+ more levels then I'd do that then.



    I think there's alot of IF's about whether this will be possible or even useful.

    • Does casting a somatic and verbal spell every minute make it easier for enemies to spot you?
    • Does casting a somatic and verbal spell every minute make it harder for you to perceive enemies or do other tasks?
    • Is it reasonable that your character is willing to spend 1/10th of his time while trying to be stealthy to repeatedly cast guidance on himself.
    • How much time is the DM going to add to your stealthing if you implement this tactic and is that time important?



    It's just not at all clear that the benefits will outweigh the costs for any given game.

    As I DM at my tables, for the entire Stealthing segment, there is typically a single check, not an extended check. If the scout wants to go furthet through multiple areas, I call for a seperate Stealth check per area, not per duration of expedition typically. Unless you are having to make repeated Stealth checks every minute of the expedition, a single casting of Guidance should suffice. If DM wants to call for multiple checks, multiple castings for Guidance should be available for the character making the checks.

    And I also believe it would be up to DM as to how loud the verbal component would need to be, so even if repeat castings are needed, it may not necessarily be doom and gloom. PHB only says a gagged mouth or area of Silence precludes Verbal components. I could see the DM ruling either way on this. Guidance seems very much like a prayer to divinity for, well, guidance; prayers can be spoken for a group to hear or can be whispered under your breath.

    To each their own though. If I was playing in a game and someone ruled that Guidance would have to be re-cast every minute of a Stealthing effort, I wouldn't be upset. I would re-evaluate whether I need to be going solo if I were not confident in my Stealth checks, though. If the DM calls for another check and casting one minute in, just turn right back around to your group, because you didn't get too far within that minute journey lol.

    Guidance may be a good cantrip, but I do think its overused, for what its worth. I will usually take Thaumaturgy for my utility cantrip for Clerics.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2018

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    Serpent Scale armor is in the Candle keep book as an uncommon magic item. It is Scale Mail that allows for full Dex to AC and no penalties to stealth.

    Uncommon 500gp + 50gp on Scale Mail =550 gp

    For your character it has the same AC as Half-plate and costs less...making the big assumption you can find/buy magic gear. Plus if you bump Dex later, more AC.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Help with armor/cost benefit analysis

    Aren't you going to raise your Dex as soon as possible, since you've got sharpshooter? In that case, Studded Leather is your best choice, unless you do manage to get your hands on that sweet (and overpowered) serpent scale armor. Really, it's functionally a + 2 Studded Leather Armor (except you need Medium Armor proficiency) but as an uncommon item, not a very rare one.

    Furthermore, and this is "ask your DM, cheese-alert territory", for the price of a half-plate you can buy a bunch of hand-crossbows, have them pre-loaded, and fire them in combat while using a shield. As a DM, I'd probably allow it IF you'd got the Crossbow Expert feat (heck, I'd probably just allow you to reload the Hand Crossbow with your shield hand, feels less cheesy to me)
    Last edited by diplomancer; 2021-10-16 at 05:59 AM.

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