Girl Genius: XXXenophile Edition

[Rodin]

I've never been on a project where murdering the team members was part of the definition of done, but I hypothesize it would be bad for morale and productivity.
Clearly Dr. Monahan has a plan in place to not die. I wonder if it involves feeding Lucrezia to giant rats? That would be amusing to watch, albeit unlikely of success.

We have further indication that Queens tap into power sources that pre-exist them, and I'm going to go with these being related to the Mirrors - either the Mirror makers found power sources and located the Mirrors there, or the makers created the power sources where they wanted to place a Mirror. Which means the presence of a Mirror in the Red Cathedral, and the Dyne being deep underground, suggest that a Queen could have arisen in Mechanicsburg.

Which may have been what caused the explosion that wrecked The Castle - Lucrezia was trying to ascend to Queenhood, and screwed up. And wound up traveling through time.

The novels imply pretty heavily that Lucrezia blew up The Castle by trying to force its personality into Ottila's body after moving Ottila's personality to Von Pinn. The Muse's body was not capable of containing all that is The Castle, and a KRACKAKOOM resulted.

[Shining Wrath]

The novels imply pretty heavily that Lucrezia blew up The Castle by trying to force its personality into Ottila's body after moving Ottila's personality to Von Pinn. The Muse's body was not capable of containing all that is The Castle, and a KRACKAKOOM resulted.

Interesting, but what's the point of doing that? I don't see how it helps Lucrezia become ruler of all she surveys if the Castle is in a Muse.

I shall now hypothesize freely.

Assumption #1: Lucrezia really wants to be a Queen.
Assumption #2: A Queen needs a Dyne-like power supply.
Assumption #3: Ancient Heterodynes, not realizing the possibility of Queenhood (possibly because patriarchal), had hooked the Castle up to the Dyne.

Lu wanted the Castle's power supply, and knew the Castle would fight back, so tried to move the Castle into a body where it couldn't interfere. This did not succeed. In fact, the KRACKAKOOM may have been the Castle fighting back - protecting the Heterodynes from Lucrezia by blowing itself up. This assume she couldn't just "kill" the Castle.

Alternatively, Lu wanted to move a copy of her mind into the Castle and ascend that to Queenhood. That would have rather drastically changed the balance of power between her and Bill, I'd wager.

[BRC]

Interesting, but what's the point of doing that? I don't see how it helps Lucrezia become ruler of all she surveys if the Castle is in a Muse.

I shall now hypothesize freely.

Assumption #1: Lucrezia really wants to be a Queen.
Assumption #2: A Queen needs a Dyne-like power supply.
Assumption #3: Ancient Heterodynes, not realizing the possibility of Queenhood (possibly because patriarchal), had hooked the Castle up to the Dyne.

Lu wanted the Castle's power supply, and knew the Castle would fight back, so tried to move the Castle into a body where it couldn't interfere. This did not succeed. In fact, the KRACKAKOOM may have been the Castle fighting back - protecting the Heterodynes from Lucrezia by blowing itself up. This assume she couldn't just "kill" the Castle.

Alternatively, Lu wanted to move a copy of her mind into the Castle and ascend that to Queenhood. That would have rather drastically changed the balance of power between her and Bill, I'd wager.

The Castle doing the Krackathoom actually makes a lot of sense, a fail-safe set up by Faustus Heterodyne in case anybody ever managed to tamper with the core systems to turn the Castle against the Heterodynes. "Preserve the Heterodyne Line" is the Castle's prime directive, so that would be consistent.

(The one spy doctor guy tricked the Castle into not being able to harm him, but he didn't actually rewire it's loyalties).

If Lucrezia tried to hack the Castle so it obeyed her instead as a prelude to stealing the Dyne Source for her own ascension to Godhood, but in doing so she triggered the fail-safe.

[Manga Shoggoth]

It's a good theory, but alas is negated elsewhere.

Spoiler: 4th Novel

Show

The prologue to The Siege of Mechanicsberg (Novel) shows Lucrezia's experiment. She did it it go gain some degree of power over The Castle, not to ascend to Queenhood. There's no mention of her ascending (or even expecting to), just her moving (part of) The Castle into the empty body of Otilia. Otilia herself is already in the body that would presumably become Von Pin.

There's a reference somewhere else as well, but for the life of me I can't remember where.

Also, pertinent to the discussion of Lucrezia's ego:

"Your slave speaks truly, Lady. Her impertinence rises in a legitimate cause. If she who you are carry within you is indeed the Holy Child -"

Lucrezia ended this by slapping Glimtockka across round the face. "Silence!" She stamped her foot. "I've told you that stupid prophecy is wrong. It is predicated on my failure! My failure!"

...And shortly thereafter, things go very wrong...

[Grim Portent]

The goal with the experiments on the castle was presumably to make it serve Lucrezia's goals, as she did with Otillia. Lucrezia forced Von Pinn to protect Agatha with her life, implying that she may have done the transfer process to subvert agents and guardians that would otherwise oppose her.

Of course this being Lucrezia, it didn't work as well as she hoped.

[PraetorDragoon]

The goal with the experiments on the castle was presumably to make it serve Lucrezia's goals, as she did with Otillia. Lucrezia forced Von Pinn to protect Agatha with her life, implying that she may have done the transfer process to subvert agents and guardians that would otherwise oppose her.

Of course this being Lucrezia, it didn't work as well as she hoped.

Or it did work better than she hoped.

[Ellen]

I really wonder about Lu before she became the Other. I mean, I get that she was trapped for what seemed like eons (maybe in the mirrors?) and became functionally insane even by spark standards (sort of like the planet Venus saying, "That's not a comfortable place to live").

But, my list of questions:

1) What was she trying to do when this happened?

2) Does what she was trying to do matter at this point? My gut feeling is no, whatever she was attempting is ancient history and has no bearing on where what was left of her state of mind wound up after eons of being driven insane.

3) But, if that's the case, why haven't we been told what she was doing?

4) And, whatever she was trying to do back then, what is she trying to do NOW? I get that it involves being greater than all the queens who ever lived and ruling the world, even is she has to kill everyone in it to do it. But, meglomania and sparks go together. I can't help feeling there's a little more it.

5) Oh, and if we could get Lu-from-before back, how would she feel about things like the death of her son, her future self trying to take over her daughter's body, and the possible death of her husband? I know Other-Lu is OK with this stuff, but I keep wondering if she was a little less completely sociopathic back in the day.

[Shining Wrath]

I really wonder about Lu before she became the Other. I mean, I get that she was trapped for what seemed like eons (maybe in the mirrors?) and became functionally insane even by spark standards (sort of like the planet Venus saying, "That's not a comfortable place to live").

But, my list of questions:

1) What was she trying to do when this happened?

2) Does what she was trying to do matter at this point? My gut feeling is no, whatever she was attempting is ancient history and has no bearing on where what was left of her state of mind wound up after eons of being driven insane.

3) But, if that's the case, why haven't we been told what she was doing?

4) And, whatever she was trying to do back then, what is she trying to do NOW? I get that it involves being greater than all the queens who ever lived and ruling the world, even is she has to kill everyone in it to do it. But, meglomania and sparks go together. I can't help feeling there's a little more it.

5) Oh, and if we could get Lu-from-before back, how would she feel about things like the death of her son, her future self trying to take over her daughter's body, and the possible death of her husband? I know Other-Lu is OK with this stuff, but I keep wondering if she was a little less completely sociopathic back in the day.

Well, let's run with her being not merely sociopathic, but also narcissistic. Like Manga Shoggoth posted in the hidden snippet, she actually slapped a loyal person for indirectly suggesting that she might, possibly, fail. And since Machiavellian is also very definitely on the table, we've got the whole Dark Triangle.

Before becoming The Other she was willing to (A) sleep with Klaus, despite being engaged to Bill, (B) send Klaus off to Skifander to get him out of her way, despite presumably being fond of him, and (C) try to trap all or part of The Castle in a Muse's body in order to have more power.

I think she was clearly Not Nice. And then she was driven insane(r). And set out to rule at least Europa, if not the world, though whatever means necessary. Because (narcissism) she desperately needs constant praise and positive reinforcement, and (sociopathy) no one else really matters compared to her, and (Machiavellian) she's willing to use other people callously and unemotionally.

Put it all together, add Sparky OCD, bake at 350 degrees for several millennia, and the result is someone you really don't want to be around.

[otakuryoga]

well, quiet time is apparently over

[Hurkyl]

Gah. I still can't tell sometimes if Violetta is 100 times better than she thinks she is, or if her assessments are actually accurate.

Or, I suppose, she could be downplaying herself out of habit (or so that others don't form unrealistic expectations or some other such thing), but it seems too consistent overall to think it's purely that.

[DaFlipp]

Gah. I still can't tell sometimes if Violetta is 100 times better than she thinks she is, or if her assessments are actually accurate.

Or, I suppose, she could be downplaying herself out of habit (or so that others don't form unrealistic expectations or some other such thing), but it seems too consistent overall to think it's purely that.

It's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction - I'm now worried that Madwa *let* Violet see her, and she is even now stalking them and gathering intel about the whereabouts of their friends before going in for the kill.

Not saying that Violet is bad at what she does, but I've gotten the impression that Madwa is supposed to be one of the best Smoke Knights in the setting, with Prende's Flame equipped to make her even scarier. Hoping I'm wrong!

[Manga Shoggoth]

Is it me, or is Rakethorne starting to look very like Wooster. Apart from the curl in the forehead...

[Shining Wrath]

It's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction - I'm now worried that Madwa *let* Violet see her, and she is even now stalking them and gathering intel about the whereabouts of their friends before going in for the kill.

Not saying that Violet is bad at what she does, but I've gotten the impression that Madwa is supposed to be one of the best Smoke Knights in the setting, with Prende's Flame equipped to make her even scarier. Hoping I'm wrong!

I'm going with a modified version of this, because of the last strip. Madwa knows that Lucrezia intends to kill her - and if anyone can casually kill Madwa, it's probably Lu. Therefore Madwa is only pretending to patrol - either noticing Violetta and not responding, or just walking around looking at flowers and clouds and truly not caring about Agatha's party.

What Madwa wants is for Agatha's party to defeat Lucrezia, and then she swoops in and cleans up. If you've played a MMORPG, Madwa wants to be the player killer who shows up just after the epic battle with the mid-level boss monster, and kills the people who killed the monster, and loots their corpses and the boss, too. It's nice work if you have the stomach for it. It doesn't work for "whole guild needed" level bosses, but it can work for the mid-level folk. In GG, Lucrezia is a top level boss, but Agatha's guild is only a dozen people, more or less.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I'm going with a modified version of this, because of the last strip. Madwa knows that Lucrezia intends to kill her - and if anyone can casually kill Madwa, it's probably Lu. Therefore Madwa is only pretending to patrol - either noticing Violetta and not responding, or just walking around looking at flowers and clouds and truly not caring about Agatha's party.

I'm still torn between the two options, but just because the minions think Lucrezia is going to kill them doesn't necessarly mean she is. I can see a certian irony in the minions setting up their exit strategies and then finding out - too late - that they didn't need them (as opposed to the big bad offing the minions and then finding out they did actually need them).

[Shining Wrath]

I'm still torn between the two options, but just because the minions think Lucrezia is going to kill them doesn't necessarly mean she is. I can see a certian irony in the minions setting up their exit strategies and then finding out - too late - that they didn't need them (as opposed to the big bad offing the minions and then finding out they did actually need them).

I think the Foglios have been setting up Lucrezia as egotistical to the point of comedy. I think she'll try to eliminate any threats to her glorious future rule, and then discover she's not as smart as she thinks she is. Also, the minions are likely smarter than she gives them credit for - especially Madwa, who is smart enough to NOT BE NEAR LUCREZIA.

I find it a little difficult to believe that Violetta was able to "spread some stuff around" without Madwa noticing that the rats had something that interested them. That's not a shot at Vi - it's because the rats are not trying to be stealthy, so if they find something to eat or play with, Madwa ought to notice.

[Squire Doodad]

I think the Foglios have been setting up Lucrezia as egotistical to the point of comedy. I think she'll try to eliminate any threats to her glorious future rule, and then discover she's not as smart as she thinks she is. Also, the minions are likely smarter than she gives them credit for - especially Madwa, who is smart enough to NOT BE NEAR LUCREZIA.

I find it a little difficult to believe that Violetta was able to "spread some stuff around" without Madwa noticing that the rats had something that interested them. That's not a shot at Vi - it's because the rats are not trying to be stealthy, so if they find something to eat or play with, Madwa ought to notice.

I assumed the "spread some stuff" was "rats will smell something bad and stay away".

[TeChameleon]

Ditto on reading it as rat repellent rather than bait.

I'm really starting to wonder if Violetta has her own Somebody Else' Problem Field- the more skilled Shadow Knights catch a bare glimpse of her, ID it as Violetta, and then just bluescreen at the thought of the laughingstock of the Shadow Knights being good enough to (almost) elude them. Couple of seconds later, the memory is edited out as ludicrous and they've gone on with their day.

That being said, I get the impression that Shadow Knight fights are very much rocket tag- they're all good enough that there's less of a margin between the best and the worst than a normal person would expect, and fights can turn on a very minor mistake, no matter which Shadow Knight is fighting which.

[Vinyadan]

Aaand I've just realized that the Great House of Telvanni from Morrowind is populated entirely by Sparks...

"Heterodyne! Submit yourself to me -- and I will let you wear my beautiful skirt!"

[Shining Wrath]

Rat repellant also produces changes in rat behavior that ought to be obvious to Madwa, given that she's an epic-level Smoke Knight actively patrolling who is familiar with the behavior of the rats.

I like the Somebody Else's Problem field theory for Violetta, except that the bad guys ought to know by now that she's traveling with Agatha, and the number of bad guys Agatha has killed or disabled is pretty large - starting with defeating Baron Wulfenbach in open combat, twice (Sturmhalten and Mechanicsburg). Not taking Violetta seriously is a mistake; not taking Agatha seriously is absolutely moronic.

Madwa is not absolutely moronic. I suspect she's up to something. It probably has something to do with not being killed by Lucrezia.

[Rakaydos]

Violetta is the smokeknight equivilant of the Heroic Freestyle. Hilariously inept, and yet it works, and the Heroes ALWAYS win.

[Traab]

Violetta is the smokeknight equivilant of the Heroic Freestyle. Hilariously inept, and yet it works, and the Heroes ALWAYS win.

I disagree, she is very clearly NOT inept. In fact I would say she is one of the best. her problem is, tarvek played games behind the scenes in an attempt to protect her by making everyone, including her, believe she was terrible at being a smoke knight. And in response I imagine she trained even harder because she didnt want to be useless. Now she is like naruto as a child, pulling pranks on a NINJA VILLAGE in broad daylight while wearing bright orange, and nobody making the connection as to what that freaking well MEANS.

[Vinyadan]

In a world of mad science, I think it's worth wondering whether Madwa was in the same time dimension as Violetta, and if that wasn't a shadow of the previous day, when Madwa was patrolling while using the lantern to hide her position.

I mean, that's how I'd try to repurpose it if I were a smoke knight, to put my image out of synch from me as much as possible.

[Rodin]

I disagree, she is very clearly NOT inept. In fact I would say she is one of the best. her problem is, tarvek played games behind the scenes in an attempt to protect her by making everyone, including her, believe she was terrible at being a smoke knight. And in response I imagine she trained even harder because she didnt want to be useless. Now she is like naruto as a child, pulling pranks on a NINJA VILLAGE in broad daylight while wearing bright orange, and nobody making the connection as to what that freaking well MEANS.

I'd still place her below Madwa, the "bestest Smoke Knight ever ever". However, there's a difference between trying to beat Madwa and spotting her from a long distance while Madwa thinks nobody can possibly be on the island. Especially if Madwa is extremely tired and has other things on her mind.

[Traab]

I'd still place her below Madwa, the "bestest Smoke Knight ever ever". However, there's a difference between trying to beat Madwa and spotting her from a long distance while Madwa thinks nobody can possibly be on the island. Especially if Madwa is extremely tired and has other things on her mind.

Oh in not trying to say she is kage level or whatever, im just saying that she is actually really really good at being a snome knight but nobody thinks so, including her, because tarvek made it seem like she sucked.

[BRC]

Oh in not trying to say she is kage level or whatever, im just saying that she is actually really really good at being a snome knight but nobody thinks so, including her, because tarvek made it seem like she sucked.

Eh, I think about it in RPG terms.

When Violetta joined the party, her concept was "Smoke Knight", but she joined pretty low level, and the standard "Smoke Knight" NPC statblock was substantially better than her PC stats at the time.


She's since leveled up, and now has better stats than the generic Smoke Knight statblock, but "Violetta the Mediocre Smoke Knight" is still part of her character concept.

[Shining Wrath]

Eh, I think about it in RPG terms.

When Violetta joined the party, her concept was "Smoke Knight", but she joined pretty low level, and the standard "Smoke Knight" NPC statblock was substantially better than her PC stats at the time.


She's since leveled up, and now has better stats than the generic Smoke Knight statblock, but "Violetta the Mediocre Smoke Knight" is still part of her character concept.

While Lucrezia is the ancient Lich BBEG who has been defeated before but keeps coming back, and Agatha is the character who rolled all 18's on stats.

[wingnutx]

At one point some other smoke knights observed that Violetta was much better than they remembered.

[DavidSh]

Have we seen Lieutenant Stross before? He looks like a cameo by British science fiction author Charles Stross (who I have seen at the same SF conventions I have seen the Foglios at).

[wingnutx]

Have we seen Lieutenant Stross before? He looks like a cameo by British science fiction author Charles Stross (who I have seen at the same SF conventions I have seen the Foglios at).

He does look like Charles Stross.

[PraetorDragoon]

Chances they're running from sea rats?