Girl Genius: XXXenophile Edition

[Fyraltari]

Starting to think making replicas of the Guildhall key to sell wasn't that good of an idea after all.

[Shining Wrath]

Starting to think making replicas of the Guildhall key to sell wasn't that good of an idea after all.

That's minion thinking, Fyraltari. Think like a monster!

[Fyraltari]

That's minion thinking, Fyraltari. Think like a monster!

Von Zinzer's a minion and if I am going to think like someone in this universe, it's gonna be good ol'Moloch.

[Gez]

Honestly, Moloch's less of a minion and more of a... head minion? Minion captain? Something like that. He's too smart (and jaded) to be a common minion.

In fact, by the standards of today's page, I figure he might actually be a monster.

[Vinyadan]

Now that I think about it, we did see a lot of monsters rebel against their makers. That's a nice distinction Snackerjape is making. Martellus even described how he keeps control.

[Zazu Yen]

Honestly, Moloch's less of a minion and more of a... head minion? Minion captain? Something like that. He's too smart (and jaded) to be a common minion.

In fact, by the standards of today's page, I figure he might actually be a monster.

I consider Moloch as Minion Prime, the pinnacle of minion evolution in the Girl Genius universe. The combination of a strong desire to see his masters needs met and be helpful, the ability to lead others, and un unconscious but powerful dose of genre savviness serving as a top-of-the-line survival instinct.

[Vinyadan]

It could also be because Moloch wasn't trained in some incredibly weird lab, and instead is an actual mechanic that deliberately chose that profession and that served in an army. So he has real life experience, answers well to orders, but he's still capable of self-determination. Fraulin Snaug, for example, looks more like a completely abject, typical Igor.

[Shining Wrath]

Moloch also watched his brother die a horrible death from a Spark invention and then had to fake being a Spark to avoid being experimented upon by the Baron. As minions go, he's probably the most likely to say "Well, wait, this could get me killed". Perhaps he's a minion in transition to monster?

[eee]

The question that comes to my mind is, who put that trilobite there? Was it done after the statue collapsed in the church, or before?

[Grim Portent]

The implication seems to be that Jorbelox did it to hide some secret of the guild related to the gargoyle's mechanisms.

[Shining Wrath]

I read this story as Jorbelox gave the true key to the statue (since it was on top of the guild, it was "high up" ha ha ha monster humor is the best), and the key in the bowl / sold as a souvenir is the one needed to activate the statue, not the guild hall door.

[Willie the Duck]

Moloch also watched his brother die a horrible death from a Spark invention and then had to fake being a Spark to avoid being experimented upon by the Baron. As minions go, he's probably the most likely to say "Well, wait, this could get me killed". Perhaps he's a minion in transition to monster?

In my mind (so, preemptive 'IMO', 'YMMV', etc.), Moloch is 'a minion, but...' -- He has all the minion traits, including the almost instinctively going along with what a Spark suggests. However, his survival instincts are strong, and he internally rebels/rejects at what we consider the normal trappings of his basic nature. It is parallel to those character concepts one sometimes sees like 'paladin who does good but is personally a misanthrope' or 'chipper, unfailingly polite archvillain' or 'highly literate fantasy barbarian' or any of the other subversion-of-trope type characters. I don't see him as transitioning to monster by any definition of the term. He'd never do just transpired, or anything like it.

[Vinyadan]

In the case of Moloch, it could also have something to do with Agatha, who grew up as a normal person for almost 20 years. So she expects people around her to act normal, which minions would naturally try to accomplish. And Moloch is very normal, and has had quite the life experience (after all, he even got some training among the high nobles of Castle Wulfenbach, and worked at the direct orders of the Baron himself!).

[Rockphed]

Honestly, Moloch's less of a minion and more of a... head minion? Minion captain? Something like that. He's too smart (and jaded) to be a common minion.

In fact, by the standards of today's page, I figure he might actually be a monster.

My favored title for Moloch is "Alpha Minion". And assuming that he has any success with any of the women he impressed in Castle Heterodyne, I expect it to become a hereditary position in parrallel with "Doom Bell Ringer". Speaking of, I vaguely remember romantic action between Van and Agatha's secretary/personal assistant. Am I in error about that?

[BRC]

My favored title for Moloch is "Alpha Minion". And assuming that he has any success with any of the women he impressed in Castle Heterodyne, I expect it to become a hereditary position in parrallel with "Doom Bell Ringer". Speaking of, I vaguely remember romantic action between Van and Agatha's secretary/personal assistant. Am I in error about that?

In a more traditional minion structure, I would refer to Moloch as a "Henchman", with more autonomy and direct connection to the Master than a traditional Minion.

However, while Minions can be Cowed, Henchman implies some degree of Loyalty. Moloch serves Agatha out of convenience.

[Traab]

I put moloch on par with the seneschal in terms of authority, even if totally unofficial. The minions obey moloch when he speaks, and mechanicsburg is basically a city of minions. *EDIT* That makes him effectively chief minion. So carlson runs the town in his ladys name, moloch runs the minions under her name.

[wingnutx]

Moloch serves Agatha out of convenience.

He still jumps whenever she says 'frog'.

https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/com...4#.YXhlOp7MJGM

[BRC]

He still jumps whenever she says 'frog'.

https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/com...4#.YXhlOp7MJGM

And that's why he's the Ideal Minion!

The classic Minion is a slavish devotee of the master, because their goal is to make their master happy, either out of fear of the Master's displeasure, or simple devotion to their Master's every whim.

Moloch is a natural soldier, his instinct is to hitch his wagon to somebody and do what they say. But he's invested in Agatha's Success, not Agatha herself. He's not afraid of what happens if she gets mad (Well, he is, but that's not his primary motive), he's afraid of what will happen to him if she fails.

A mere minion will do what you tell them to do. Moloch will do what you NEED him to do.

[Vinyadan]

About that, I was thinking about Snaug. She obeys Lucrezia unconditionally. However, she's supposed to have grown up in a containment tank, and have been around her Doctor all of her life. So I don't really see her getting wasped. Is she just such a well-conditioned minion, that she will instantaneously and slavishly obey the biggest spark in the room? Even her memory gets wiped out every year, so she doesn't have much to go around with for self-determination.

[Shining Wrath]

Do minions imprint, like geese, and obey the Spark they are imprinted to?
Or can a minion be slavishly obeying their master, and along comes a clearly more powerful or impressive Spark, and suddenly their loyalty is shaken?
Could a minion of one of the minor sparks who tried to seize Mechanicsburg during the siege suddenly switch sides just because Agatha goes Full Madness Place Heterodyne and they see for the first time the true glory that is a super-Spark?

[Radar]

Moloch is not a minion - he just tried to help a friend. Are you even listening to the story?

However we call him though, he stands above all the minions and even sparks serving under Agatha.

[Grim Portent]

In my opinion Snakkerjape's dichotomy between monsters and minions is a false one and not actually useful. We've seen at least one monster who's a minion, R79, the flesh construct who was imprisoned in the Castle and worked under Moloch as part of his roving band of repairmen. Granted he might not count as a monster, but he's an amoral frankenstein with fangs so he seems like he should count.

We have also seen several normal people who aren't minions despite living around sparks, the majority of the train monks for example, so a monster not being slavishly obedient would really just mean they aren't part of the population that is easily swayed by the spark.

EDIT: On another note, it occurs to me that we didn't see any monsters in Mechanicsburg prior to the Doom Bell being rung, but this story indicates that there's been a population of them living there all along. Would they have been counted among the weapons that had to be 'disarmed' by the Baron and as such were shut away, or were they encouraged to stay out of sight by the tourism board in the interests of making money without monsters scaring people?

[TeChameleon]

Moloch is definitely a minion- he doesn't like it, but he is the Alpha Minion in Agatha's employ. Or at least he was until the Baron froze Mechanicsburg. It's going to be a bit weird when Mechanicsburg thaws out- a lot of dynamics will have changed for those outside the city, which will come as a complete shock to those who were frozen.

... good grief, Mechanicsburg was frozen more than eight years ago real-time.

[Ellen]

Did not see this coming.

Not sure what is coming, but it's not what I expected.

And I have no idea what's going to happen between the rest of the castle, this memory, and not-exactly-evil-but-still-a-Heterodyne-in-the-more-traditional-sense Agatha (it's a thin line, but that's what serious talents to warp reality are all about).

[f00bar]

We now know: Bill (and probably Barry) not returning now has Plotonium Armor ;-)
not sure if intended, or accidental spill, or time discontiuity, though :-P

[Fyraltari]

We now know: Bill (and probably Barry) not returning now has Plotonium Armor ;-)
not sure if intended, or accidental spill, or time discontiuity, though :-P

We've known that Agatha would be the ruling Heterodyne at the end of the story for a while. So Bill (and probably Barry) couldn't have returned. At least, officially.

[eee]

Curious. The statue knows there is a park, but not that the monsters survived or anything about Agatha. That would suggest it still has a connection to where the guildhall was, but not the rest of the town. Or that things were set up so that ONLY a park with a boomerang key could exist there.

[f00bar]

We've known that Agatha would be the ruling Heterodyne at the end of the story for a while. So Bill (and probably Barry) couldn't have returned. At least, officially.

OK fair point.
But I always thought of beeing "the Heterodyne" as beeing the unrivaled, maddest spark in the Family, not as beeing a Hereditary title.

Which makes me think: what happens if a king disappears for 20 Years, and people crown his offspring "The king is Dead. Long live the king" and everything.
Would power return to the old king should he return?
I think it would largely come down to the feelings of the court (Military? maybe even the People.)
And i am certain that Agatha would outrank him in that regard.
Most likely Bill wouldn't even want to be the Heterodyne...

[Shining Wrath]

If Bill & Barry ever return, it will be upon A Quest, and Agatha will join them, and the question of who rules Mechanicsburg will be left moot until the glorious quest is fulfilled. I think that according to Mechanicsburg tradition that the final arbiter of "Who is THE Heterodyne, anyway?" is decided by Der Kestle. If the Castle listens to both Bill & Agatha, then they are joint rulers. If the Castle decides that there can only be one - well, things could get dicey. Except that whoever the Castle decided was in charge would forbid it to kill the rival.

So if the statue's animating essence is a memory of Castle Heterodyne, does that imply the Castle was opposed to the destruction of the Fleshyards?

[GloatingSwine]

So if the statue's animating essence is a memory of Castle Heterodyne, does that imply the Castle was opposed to the destruction of the Fleshyards?

The Castle was a fan of the old Heterodynes and so it probably wasn't keen on getting rid of the monsters. What with adventuring all over Europa and their general outlook on the family and its ways, I suspect the boys probably didn't have much to do with the Castle and its state of repair doesn't just reflect neglect since they were gone.

(I suspect if the matter ever came up that would bear as much weight as anything, as far as the Castle is concerned Agatha is The Heterodyne now, and she's quite possibly more of one than her father, she's definitely more of an agent of chaos than the boys were)