Fighting style for dual-wielding shields?

[Greywander]

What would a fighting style built around this look like?

First, I would think it would allow you to treat the shield as a weapon with which you are proficient (but not grant general proficiency for improvised weapons). Since shields don't have the light property, you'd need the Dual-Wielder feat to actually use a pair of shields with TWF (and oddly, DW would give you an extra point of AC; not sure what to think about that). So far, unless you pick up DW, this only benefits using a single shield. It would be okay for a grappler build, since you can grapple with one hand and beat people with the shield, but Unarmed Fighting style is better at that.

Perhaps for a second benefit, there would be something specifically for when you're using two shields. Straight up gaining the benefit of both shields is probably too strong. Reducing the benefit to only an extra +1 AC is effective, but boring, and not clear how magic shields would interact with it. Perhaps add some kind of special move (as a bonus action?) where you bring the two shields together to create a wall? I'm thinking something like the imperious knights from Dark Souls 2, which wield two tower shields that interlock with each other.

Heck, maybe we should just bake in aspects of DW, namely, being able to use a shield with TWF and getting a +1 bonus to AC while dual-wielding shields, but explicitly not allowing it to stack with DW. Not sure how this would interact with magic shields, though. It makes sense that you'd get the non-AC benefits of both shields, but getting the magical AC benefits of both shields seems perhaps too strong (although there's an ongoing thread about just that, since the magic shield description only requires a shield to be "held" to gain the magical AC bonus).

It's tricky keeping it from being too strong. It needs to be strong enough that it's actually worth using, but it shouldn't completely overshadow other options. Unarmed Fighting, Defense, and Protection styles are probably the major ones to be comparing it to. Unarmed Fighting gives you a 1d6 unarmed strike vs. the 1d4 of a shield, as well as automatic 1d4 damage to grappled targets. Defense gives +1 AC, but doesn't interfere with using a weapon. Protection gives you a use for your reaction while using a shield, and nothing else, so a Shield style shouldn't give that same benefit.

[Sillybird99]

I think you'd have to balance it by only granting the AC bonus of the shields on rounds they weren't used as weapons. I think it would still be pretty strong to have two shields (and ones they can use as weapons as well), especially for casters with warcaster.

I think this idea is too much for a simple fighting style. Maybe as a fighting style and a feat or two, but probably much cooler as a subclass of fighter or barbarian.

[OldTrees1]

Why would dual wielding shields resemble two weapon fighting? Wielding a shield focuses on the defensive value. I would think the fighting paradigm would be attacking with one shield and defending with both.

I would probably consider a variant of <defend adjacent allies> or <defend myself>.

[Arkhios]

Let's try this, to see how people would react to it:

• You treat a shield as a one-handed melee weapon with which you are proficient, that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
• When you take the Attack action, you can make all of your attacks with disadvantage, and grant yourself half-cover until the start of your next turn. You must be wielding two shields.

[Lalliman]

Let's try this, to see how people would react to it:

• You treat a shield as a one-handed melee weapon with which you are proficient, that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
• When you take the Attack action, you can make all of your attacks with disadvantage, and grant yourself half-cover until the start of your next turn. You must be wielding two shields.

That's not a worthwhile trade. Disadvantage is statistically equivalent to a -3.3 penalty, plus it practically ensures that you won't crit. So that's a substantially bigger penalty than half cover is a bonus, plus offence is usually better than defence.

Dual shields is so niche that I think it's better off as a feat, not a fighting style. Then you'll have the design space to actually do something interesting with it.

[Dualswinger]

Hmmmm... well you'd likely need to design something like this from the ground up rather than try to adapt existing rules?

For example, 75g for a "Pair" of Twinned Shields.

We could give them the light quality, and adds +2 to AC and 1d4 bludgeoning damage. You need to use both at the same time to gain the benefits. This gives us a damage average of 11 DPR vs 11.5 for a duelist build which offers the same defensive benefits.

BUT we can add a specialised feat to unlock the full benefits like the double scimitar. My first idea would be to increase the AC by an additional 1, and to offer a special Reaction to slam the pieces together to either add either +2 to ac or dex save? (I dunno, this is my first pass at this concept.) But using this ability would either impede movement in the following round, or deny the use of the bonus action.

Alternate idea, use the bonus action to increase that AC instead, also stops reactions until your next turn.

[JonBeowulf]

It takes an action to don a shield (which totally sucks for someone with two of them!) so changing that to an action + object interaction to don both of them is almost mandatory.

Or I guess you could walk around with both of them donned and have difficulty doing anything that requires using your hands.

[Kurt Kurageous]

It takes an action to don a shield (which totally sucks for someone with two of them!) so changing that to an action + object interaction to don both of them is almost mandatory.

Or I guess you could walk around with both of them donned and have difficulty doing anything that requires using your hands.

And what else do fighters do with their hands out of combat, anyway? I mean besides pull their weak teammates out of holes. Hold the torch?

[JonBeowulf]

TBH, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the purpose of this build. If it's too difficult to hit you, smart enemies won't waste their time and they'll target someone else. You're maxing your damage at 1d6+STR_MOD, so tough enemies will continue to not care about you and focus on the characters dealing real damage.

Congratulations, you survived the fight... but your (remaining) friends hate you.

You're a fighter FFS! Your job in combat is to apply the dead condition on as many enemies as possible as quickly as possible.

[Tanarii]

Someone's watched Infinity War too many times.

[OldTrees1]

TBH, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the purpose of this build. If it's too difficult to hit you, smart enemies won't waste their time and they'll target someone else. You're maxing your damage at 1d6+STR_MOD, so tough enemies will continue to not care about you and focus on the characters dealing real damage.

Congratulations, you survived the fight... but your (remaining) friends hate you.

You're a fighter FFS! Your job in combat is to apply the dead condition on as many enemies as possible as quickly as possible.

What if the dual shields fighting style improved the defense of you, and your allies? Currently a Paladin can pick up a Shield (+2 AC to you) and the Interception or Protection fighting styles(protect allies).

[Greywander]

TBH, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the purpose of this build. If it's too difficult to hit you, smart enemies won't waste their time and they'll target someone else. You're maxing your damage at 1d6+STR_MOD, so tough enemies will continue to not care about you and focus on the characters dealing real damage.

Congratulations, you survived the fight... but your (remaining) friends hate you.

You're a fighter FFS! Your job in combat is to apply the dead condition on as many enemies as possible as quickly as possible.

Not sure where you're getting 1d6 damage from, improvised weapons deal 1d4 damage (though you could certainly have the fighting style increase the damage).

And you're actually right. I remember seeing an analysis once that if you found some kind of defensive item, such as better armor or a Ring of Protection, it's generally best to give it to the person who is consistently going down first every fight, rather than making the tank even tankier.

That said, that only applies when you're having to choose between giving a defensive buff to a squishy mage or taking it for your self. If you didn't have the option of giving a defensive buff to a teammate, then there's no reason not to take it for yourself, e.g. taking the Defense style doesn't make the mage any squishier.

My first idea would be to increase the AC by an additional 1, and to offer a special Reaction to slam the pieces together to either add either +2 to ac or dex save? (I dunno, this is my first pass at this concept.) But using this ability would either impede movement in the following round, or deny the use of the bonus action.

Alternate idea, use the bonus action to increase that AC instead, also stops reactions until your next turn.

This seems like a decent idea. I know you meant it for a feat, but it could work for a fighting style as well. Defense also gives +1 AC, but allows you to fight with a weapon. This also gives +1 AC at the cost of being limited to double shields, so in exchange you get the reaction slam to bring the shields together. What I might do is you can reaction slam the shields together, but you can also open or close them as a bonus action. While the shields are closed, it provides full cover for any allies behind you, and half cover for yourself (+2 to AC and DEX saves). While the shields are closed, you can't attack, but you can shove. How does that sound?

Someone's watched Infinity War too many times.

This may come as a shock, but I've never seen Infinity War. I just don't watch a lot of movies.

[Slipjig]

I remember seeing an analysis once that if you found some kind of defensive item, such as better armor or a Ring of Protection, it's generally best to give it to the person who is consistently going down first every fight, rather than making the tank even tankier.

This also gives +1 AC at the cost of being limited to double shields, so in exchange you get the reaction slam to bring the shields together. What I might do is you can reaction slam the shields together, but you can also open or close them as a bonus action. While the shields are closed, it provides full cover for any allies behind you, and half cover for yourself (+2 to AC and DEX saves). While the shields are closed, you can't attack, but you can shove. How does that sound?

The first point is correct: since most tanks have no way to force an enemy to attack them, making a character who is pure "I am indestructible, but also totally unable to influence the course of the battle" (AKA an MMO tank) isn't viable.

As for granting full cover to anybody behind you, what size of shields are you thinking of? If we're talking two tower shields, they MIGHT grant full cover to one protectee who was standing directly behind you. But there's no way a character should be able to use a tower shield as an offensive weapon, it's just too big and unwieldy.

I've seen several references to two-shield fighting recently, and it always struck me as a totally impractical fighting style. Like, possibly even more impractical than dual-wielding lances. Was there some anime recently or something that featured a character like this?

[Greywander]

I've seen several references to two-shield fighting recently, and it always struck me as a totally impractical fighting style. Like, possibly even more impractical than dual-wielding lances. Was there some anime recently or something that featured a character like this?

I've been playing through Dark Souls 2, and one of the enemies, the imperious knight, wields a set of two tower shields. I also had a tank build on my mind recently (as in, the military vehicle tank, not the RPG damage sponge tank), which was an artificer riding a paladin, and thought that double shields might have made sense for the paladin in that scenario.

[Phhase]

I've thought about Orma and Reeves twin greatshields too, but sadly, in 5e, all shields are boiled down to one good feat and a +2 AC bonus. That and a 1d4 improvised weapon attack. I think you'd have to do some homebrew to really do justice to the concept, since support for different shield types and functions in 5e is tragically nonexistent.

[OldTrees1]

I've been playing through Dark Souls 2, and one of the enemies, the imperious knight, wields a set of two tower shields. I also had a tank build on my mind recently (as in, the military vehicle tank, not the RPG damage sponge tank), which was an artificer riding a paladin, and thought that double shields might have made sense for the paladin in that scenario.

I've thought about Orma and Reeves twin greatshields too, but sadly, in 5e, all shields are boiled down to one good feat and a +2 AC bonus. That and a 1d4 improvised weapon attack. I think you'd have to do some homebrew to really do justice to the concept, since support for different shield types and functions in 5e is tragically nonexistent.

Given the context* of those "twin greatshields", a reasonable conversion in 5E would be:
A pair of medium shield you can use as 1d6 bludgeoning martial weapons that can be placed together to form a makeshift tower shield that gives total cover from any attack passing through the 3 squares in front of you (2 hexes for medium, 4 squares / 3 hexes for large uses).

Then 3 fighting styles
Interception (Tasha's)
Protection (PHB)
Shield Allies: Use your shield to protect your allies. Allies within <distance> get half your shield's AC bonus (stacks with their shield) but you don't get that shield's bonus. Make this choice at the beginning of your turn, it lasts until your next turn or you become incapacitated.

Then 1 feat
Shield Master


*Those shield come from a game with huge strength scores, oversized enemies (or undersized protagonists?), and oversized equipment. The character can carry around a slab of boulder as a greatshield and wield zweihanders one handed. The enemies that use the signature weapon are massive and can barely use both shields as a tower shield.

[Arkhios]

In Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, Eivor can also dual wield shields, but one thing that stands out is that s/he can use only one of them at a time to block incoming attacks, and the other shield is used for melee only, and is not a defensive item.

I seem to recall seeing a martial arts movie where a monk-ish character (it might have been a Jackie Chan film, actually) fought with two shields pretty convincingly.

It might seem rather silly, but I think it has a place in fantasy, at the very least.