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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Jul 2019

    biggrin Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Hello everyone.

    I'm trying to figure out a way to cast Paragon Surge with non half elf wizard. The point is to get access to extra item creation feats for long enough to actually work at least 4 hours a day on a magic item.

    The wizard will have acces to this racial spell thanks to the Secret of Magical Discipline feat.

    One of the ways I figured out was using Polymorph any Object to actually turn the caster into a half elf, that then would comply with the target rule of Paragon Surge: personal (half-elf only).

    Once Paragon Surge is casted, the caster chooses to replace the polymorph effect of Polymorph any Object with the Paragon Surge effect.

    I found a way of extending the Paragon Surge effect here: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=19469.0

    The other way I was thinking of to archive getting Paragon Surge for an extended period of time over a non half elf character, is to actually craft an item with continual Paragon Surge.

    So, the user should be affected by Polymorph any Object and then wear the magic item. Being a half elf at the moment of wearing the item, it will satisfy Paragon Surge requirements. But then, the later polymorph effect replaces the former. So what happens then? Do continual effect items constantly check the wearer status, and being that the case, the Paragon Surge item stops working once the wearer ceases to be a half elf? Or once the continual effect starts, it is only stopped by the wearer taking off the item or by the item destruction/dispelling?
    Last edited by Dagearg; 2021-10-22 at 08:39 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    What race are you? Racial Heritage will let you count as a half-elf, thus qualifying for Paragon Surge. It can be taken by any race that counts as human, including half-orcs, lesser planetouched, mongrelfolk etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Half Elf Aasimars and Tieflings

    But yeah what Psyren said.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Thank you for your replies. I'm playing a Samsaran, so unfortunately I think I cannot take that feat (very nice one by the way).

    I think I'll have to stick to spells and magic items to try to achieve a legal way to be the target of Paragon Surge.

    But I'm not sure if any of the two possibilities I thought of is valid rulewise.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Polymorph spells don't actually change what you are so that seems like a bust. Polymorphing into a half elf doesn't make you actually a half elf anymore than polymorphing into a dragon makes you an actual dragon, it just changes your appearance and gives some abilities of what you're copying.

    The normal way to get non race locked paragon surge is to just play a cleric as there's a domain which gets it, although I can't think of a way for a Wizard to get special domain spells off-hand so currently unsure of a way.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Thank you for your reply, I was aware of that limitation. But that seems not to be the case with Polymorph Any Object. Apparently it's the only polymorph spell that was not nerfed from 3.5 and actually turns you into, basically, anything:

    "This spell functions like Greater Polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another."

    That's why I picked this particular spell. It states that the only difference with Greater Polymorph (and transitively with Polymorph and Alter Self), is that it actually transmutes the target.

    So, back to my original question, should an item with continual Paragon Surge work on a character that complies with all the spell requisites until the item actually affects her?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Paragon Surge Spell on non Half Elf characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xavion View Post
    The normal way to get non race locked paragon surge is to just play a cleric as there's a domain which gets it, although I can't think of a way for a Wizard to get special domain spells off-hand so currently unsure of a way.
    Xavion, I think I can work with this. This Domain grants the spell 4th—paragon surge (always matches your actual race)

    My character can cast any spell with the Secret of Magical Discipline feat, so he can actually choose to cast this clerical variant of Paragon Surge.

    He could craft an item with this spell, never needing to become a half elf in the first place.
    Last edited by Dagearg; 2021-10-25 at 07:07 AM.

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