Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

[bladescape]

Well I guess I can out the fact that the whole "Voting for a kill" thing was meaningless now.

That was just me having fun.

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Small point of pride:
Every read I gave out on D1 was correct.

I just reversed on several positions N1 because Snow running Cao up on D1 wasn't actually what I expected w/w.

I'll add a small note to Snow that says "Willing to bus ruthlessly."

[Snowblaze]

I was thinking after day one that bussing was actually pretty effective and I should do it more often.

But now everyone knows I'm prepared to do it, so it won't work.

Also how am I supposed to townclear myself now?

[bladescape]

I was thinking after day one that bussing was actually pretty effective and I should do it more often.

But now everyone knows I'm prepared to do it, so it won't work.

Also how am I supposed to townclear myself now?

Step 1. Rand Town.

Step 2. Wait until Bladescape tells everyone you're town.

=P

[Rogan]

Hey, it was a good way for Gac to tell us who the wolves had targeted. So it wasn't for nothing.
We only failed to listen...

Oh, Snow? If I had told you about having colors, which was proven by the Thresher, would you have any idea what my role would have been? Without Google, of course.

[bladescape]

Then we just wait until I get you wrong and ego-think I'm right.

[Snowblaze]

Step 1. Rand Town.

Step 2. Wait until Bladescape tells everyone you're town.

=P

That one has been pretty effective so far, I'll admit. Thing is it also gives you a free pass to mislynch me if you're a wolf.

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Hey, it was a good way for Gac to tell us who the wolves had targeted. So it wasn't for nothing.
We only failed to listen...

Oh, Snow? If I had told you about having colors, which was proven by the Thresher, would you have any idea what my role would have been? Without Google, of course.

Nope. That was not what I was thinking.

[Rogan]

Step 1. Rand Town.

Step 2. Wait until Bladescape tells everyone you're town.

=P

You forgot Step 3: wait till Blades is proven to be town (usually by dying).

[bladescape]

You forgot Step 3: wait till Blades is proven to be town (usually by dying).

I do die a lot it's true

[Snowblaze]

Semi-relevant quote from wolfchat, when I was going to kill bladescape night two (I changed because I really didn't want to get beast-killed by Supagoof.)

Also it amuses me because last game I used "bladescape was nightkilled and was hard townreading me" as a reason I couldn't be a wolf. If I'm going to shatter every reason to townread me so I'm never trusted again, I might as well do it properly, right?

[Rogan]

Nope. That was not what I was thinking.

Oh, don't worry. The color thing was my other concept, not the one I've gotten.

For my active concept, I could give other hints this can wait till the game has ended.

[bladescape]

That one has been pretty effective so far, I'll admit. Thing is it also gives you a free pass to mislynch me if you're a wolf.

While you're right, watching you get paranoid as I pocket you is also pretty hilarious.

[Rogan]

Why is everyone trusting me?

For me three reasons.
1) You got Cao lynched. You started the wagon with weak reasons, but stayed there till the end.
2) A logical facility, as it's unlikely the top two wagons are both wolves.
3) You got my alignment right and show the right amount of confidence.

Sure, you still could be a wolf, banking on point 2. Or the SK. Or another neutral. But honestly? I expect you to die tonight. If you don't, I can start to be paranoid again.

A very paranoid reading would be, Snow, Bat and Cao are a team. Snow made her weak case, but it gained more traction then expected and the only counter wagon that gained any speed was Snow. So instead of trying to create another wagon, they decided to sacrifice Cao and use it as a way to gain credibility for both wolves.
I doubt this really is the case, but if Snow or Bat flip wolf, it could be worth checking this theory again.

Aaaaaaahhhhhh....

So I called the correct team out at night 1... I should have been paranoid...

[Taffimai]

By the way, they did a good job about keeping us guessing if there was a power to role names or not. Or rather, if the wolves had this power.

I was expecting a power like that, but thought it was AV, because she asked about people's powers a few times and also flashed her role which could have been a sly way to get others talking about theirs. Stuff like that.

Anyway, if we're discussing declaring a draw, then I feel that the dead players should also get a say in that. In this game, people accept getting killed off (either as a townie or a bussed wolf) on the premise that it will help their team to (hopefully) win. If we're going for a weird outcome, they should get a say in it (in their dead chat, obviously). Personally, I'm happy to go with the majority, a game is only fun so long as all the people involved want to keep going.

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PS: Giving others kill immunity is a weird power for knotweed, maybe because it spreads? It's boggling me because knotweed is notoriously hard to get rid of, and Meta can't give the immunity to himself.

[Snowblaze]

I knew I should have left gac alive for something!

Batcathat is fine with a draw, we were talking about it before they died.

And in the latest episode of “semi-relevant quotes from wolfchat”:

And now Rogan pretty much theorized exactly what happened, even if he doesn't seem to really believe it. Why did everyone become Sherlock Holmes all of a sudden?

Which becomes even more hilarious given Elenna’s role.

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Also I’m pretty sure we’re in a position of “there is no mechanical way for either town or mafia to win”. In which case it’s a draw regardless of whether anyone thinks it’s fair.

[Rogan]

I knew I should have left gac alive for something!

Batcathat is fine with a draw, we were talking about it before they died.

And in the latest episode of “semi-relevant quotes from wolfchat”:



Which becomes even more hilarious given Elenna’s role.

This would not have helped, Book didn't like gac either... Shame on you, Book! Shame!

Honestly, a draw is the most likely result, unless there is a hidden way around the protection Meta has granted. He could have hidden this part, in order to avoid getting killed.
But if it somehow doesn't end with a draw, I will totally keep voting for No Lynch every day, until I finally die.

And yeah. I guess I am not that useless when it comes to forming a theory. But I should be more confident... And I should not spam that many posts. It's too easy to overlook the hidden gems that way.

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Also I’m pretty sure we’re in a position of “there is no mechanical way for either town or mafia to win”. In which case it’s a draw regardless of whether anyone thinks it’s fair.

Well, technically, you could brute force the game. It would be boring and anticlimactic, but possible.
And there is a chance that Meta can revoke his protection by dying, but it seems unlikely.

[moonfly7]

Yup. That was what I actually did with the scry Moonfly gave me. Batcathat got Meta night one and Elenna night two.

(I have no clue who Vayne is.)

GAH! I should have stuck to my guns and not caved and trusted you! But I didn't know anyone else to give it too. Curses.

I knew I should have left gac alive for something!

Batcathat is fine with a draw, we were talking about it before they died.

And in the latest episode of “semi-relevant quotes from wolfchat”:



Which becomes even more hilarious given Elenna’s role.

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Also I’m pretty sure we’re in a position of “there is no mechanical way for either town or mafia to win”. In which case it’s a draw regardless of whether anyone thinks it’s fair.

Yeah it almost has to be a draw unless meta's death revokes NK's.

"Hmmm" the shadow purrs, almost like a giant panther in it's shapelessness "Clever, Clever. Never suspected you, especially not after our deal."

"Ah well, it can't be helped. You have made my time on this plane very entertaining, at least. That is worth a failed deal or two in all regards."

[Rogan]

I just noticed, one player should win.
Our favorite Survivor has survived. Everyone else gets a partial victory, except poor Book. He might have lived as honorable town, but he died as a killer.


Oh, if we want to vote for best and worst power usage:

Gac really made a lot out of his power. (Well, in theory. The rest of us didn't listen close enough). So, in theory, best usage. In practice, it didn't change much.
Meta screwed Town over a lot - with totally reasonable power usage. So, in fact worst results, but that's only obvious in hindsight.
Captain Cap had a very nice plan for his power. Unfortunately, my first night result painted him in a very bad light, so he never got a chance to actually try it.
Fext had a reasonably good idea for his power usage, but got screwed up by the fact that AV seemed to be a much better target. And the fact that Book didn't turn into a killer n1, so there was no additional kill to stop.
AV made good use of her copy power. It helped clear us both and gave us another hint for the way my power worked. It would have been hilarious if she would still be alive to kill Snow now.

My own power was semi useful, after all. I didn't like the way I danced around the obvious restriction ("Each night, you may choose a single statement made or question asked by someone other than you, which you didnÂ’t ask them to make.") But since the power had a hidden restriction as well, it was somewhat okay. Unavenger made sure the answers were helpful, despite being false. That's especially true for the second question. Good job here, Unavenger. (Although I would have preferred true answers and another drawback instead, but that's a personal preference)

Anyone who agrees / disagrees here?

[Snowblaze]

AV made good use of her copy power. It helped clear us both and gave us another hint for the way my power worked. It would have been hilarious if she would still be alive to kill Snow now.

Why I murdered them first. Just in case.

And yeah, I think everyone did a good job with their powers. Except Cao, who never got to use theirs (sorry!)

[Rogan]

Why I murdered them first. Just in case.

And yeah, I think everyone did a good job with their powers. Except Cao, who never got to use theirs (sorry!)

Hey... Xi prevented AV from using her bane (which would not have done anything, but still...). That's not a good power usage. Xi should have blocked me, that way I couldn't have accidentally screwed with town so much. (Yeah, hindsight...)

By the way, if I had been a bit more concerned with staying alive, I could have learned about the drawback by day 2. I thought the drawback could be that the person who made the statement would lean the answer as well. Which would be bad if you used it in the straightforward way of checking claims and found a wolf, who would be warned by this.
I seriously considered using Snows statement of "Rogan is town" for the power use. But I thought, hunting wolves would be a better way to spend my time. After all, my survival is not part of my victory condition.

[Supagoof]

Anyone who agrees / disagrees here?

I disagree. Because of this, right here.

"Once per NIGHT, including the night you gain this ability, you MUST choose a living player and a role name. If the role name is their role name, they die, even if they are normally IMMUNE. If the role name is NOT their role name, you die"

So, the assumption is that Snow knows whom everybody is. If she doesn't, then its a stab by her each night to guess. So...that being said...if Snow doesn't know everybody's role, Town eventually wins. Her own ability will kill her when she can't correctly name a role. There's no 107 nights, just 5 more max? (Blades, Taff, Rogan, Meta, Moon & Goof?) assuming the natural assumption of wolves tie when equal to remaining living players?

I mean, I'm not a smart man, but I think I'm reading that right.

[Rogan]

The problem is, Snow is immune to dying at night, by Metas power.
Snow claims she asked Unavenger about this and they agreed that Snow would not die.

So, right now, we are wondering if Metas protection would run out after death. I guess, Snow could be lying about asking Unavenger as well, but this would be a low blow.

Snow knows Metas name and Blades. So we would could lynch Meta, let Blades die, no lynch tomorrow and waiting for the results of the night. But this would be rather boring.

[Unavenger]

As Snow has written it, the ability won't kill her as long as she's immune by some other means than her own Winged Beast ability.

[Snowblaze]

...noting the lack of "Game Over: Draw" in that post.

...which probably means there is a way of killing me. *sigh*

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Rogan, Moonfly, bladescape and Supagoof have all checked in since day start, so can't be capable of killing me (otherwise they would have claimed so).

That means that either Meta's protection can wear off/be removed, Taffimai has a win condition incompatible with the current situation, or Meta has an unblockable kill.

Meta, please check in and confirm whether you can kill me or make me mortal asap. Otherwise... lynch Taffimai?

[Metastachydium]

...noting the lack of "Game Over: Draw" in that post.

A pity. This game would deserve an unusual outcome.

...which probably means there is a way of killing me. *sigh*

Indeed there is. You can die as early as tonight. As many have speculated, I omitted a key detail from my role description: "for as long as you live". Killing me today will kill my roots as well and my watch over you will be over.

[Snowblaze]

Hang on, why am I trying to help solve the game?

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A pity. This game would deserve an unusual outcome.



Indeed there is. You can die as early as tonight. As many have speculated, I omitted a key detail from my role description: "for as long as you live". Killing me today will kill my roots as well and my watch over you will be over.

Welp.

Permission to Fang-and-Talon myself? Go out on my own terms and all that?

[Metastachydium]

Hang on, why am I trying to help solve the game?

Habit, I suppose.

[Snowblaze]

I was so close. And now I've shredded my meta to pieces and haven't even broken my losing streak.

Right, operation: write awesome Nikolai death scene.

[Rogan]

As Snow has written it, the ability won't kill her as long as she's immune by some other means than her own Winged Beast ability.

Is this clarification that we can't kill snow, or is it clarification that we only can't kill snow unless she was bluffing about her ability? I guess it's the former, but you can never be sure, with the way this game has been going....

So, unless Meta will tell us either
- that Snow was never protected and a bluff all along OR
- that his protection runs out on some kind of condition he didn't tell us, like his death.

Snow is completely immortal and could in theory brute force the game by guessing all our names. This would be extremely boring. But I would force her to do this, if we can't agree to a draw.

So there are multiple options. Number one would be, there is a way to remove Snows protection, and she dies soon after. Town victory.
There is no way to kill Snow. This turns the game into a boring circle of snow has one guess per night until all Townies are dead, while Town votes for sleep at day. Like I said, boring, but it would ultimately lead to either one side surrendering or a wolf victory.

The best option is to agree to a draw.

Especially if Unavenger can confirm that there is no way town can remove Snows protection.

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Okay, I guessed it.

Snow, very well played. You would deserve a draw, but I am not sure if Captain Cap would agree.

Meta, Sorry you would have to die to ensure the victory.
Snow. Guess right away at the remaining roles, okay?

[Snowblaze]

Nikolai swore. Most unkingly of him, he knew, but this wasn't the kind of situation kings were supposed to end up in. He'd been so close, held victory in the palm of his hand, and now...

And now it was over. Some traps even a too-clever fox couldn't find his way out of. He raised his hands in surrender. "I'd really prefer it if you could not kill me. It'll quite ruin my good looks, and this is my favourite coat." Even now, he was buying time. Glancing around, wondering if he could run for it, if the demon was strong enough to fly them both to safety, if someone would come to save him.

When you'd cheated death enough times, you started to believe you could keep doing it. Nasty thing, hope. Made it so much harder to admit defeat. The gathered people didn't seem any less willing to murder him, so he kept talking...

(To be continued. I might try for a death-or-glory guess of the remaining roles. Because I'm too stubborn to quit.)

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...give me a while to think. I need to get this right.

If Taffimai is willing to help me out I can still win with two out of three.

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Because then we end up in a me/Taffimai/missing name F3 and if Taffimai votes with me I win.

[Supagoof]

Changing my point to Metastachydium

As Snow goes to write her death scene, I'll see about writing a parody for Meta.

*Shakes Meta's hand, petal, stem? for his honorable sacrifice.*

You will die, so others may live.