A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If I were a wolf, I would have lied about my first question anyway. I mean, why would I ask a question about my team?

    So, assuming my power is wrong all the time, the wolves would know this. This would explain why they didn't try to stop us.
    But the killer picked gac as well. Why?
    That's a good point - wolves probably knew your first answer was wrong, so they didn't bother to stop you.

    My guess is the killer thought, like I did, that gac's power wasn't that good and wolves probably wouldn't shoot them, since obviously the SK doesn't want their kill to overlap with other kills.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If all Rogan's answers are false (something I'm not convinced of), would his first question mean that all the wolves are not in that list? Or just that some of the wolves are not in that list?
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    That's a good point - wolves probably knew your first answer was wrong, so they didn't bother to stop you.
    Again, depending on whether the Goof is a dog or not, they could very well think they have a 50 to 100% chance that they'll waste their kill.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I think I'll be screaming instead. Or something.
    I'll say again, if I had rolled wolf again, I would've auto'd.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: AvatarVecna's Afterlife 2

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    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    That's a good point - wolves probably knew your first answer was wrong, so they didn't bother to stop you.

    My guess is the killer thought, like I did, that gac's power wasn't that good and wolves probably wouldn't shoot them, since obviously the SK doesn't want their kill to overlap with other kills.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If all Rogan's answers are false (something I'm not convinced of), would his first question mean that all the wolves are not in that list? Or just that some of the wolves are not in that list?
    Well, there were, in fact, a whole lot of non-wolves there and we are yet to catch a dog who was on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'll say again, if I had rolled wolf again, I would've auto'd.
    Yeah, but isn't not believing anything you say considered good manners hereabouts?

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    So... let's disregard AV and me for a moment...

    Why would we have Taff on our list? She can't be the one who was beating gac or she would need to have two different kill colors. Which I strongly doubt.
    Unavenger it would be nice if you could confirm that every faction/person only has one kill color.

    Adding her to the list makes sure we can disregard it right away.
    Last edited by Rogan; 2021-10-23 at 04:46 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Teff (…) He
    (Taffimai is a she.)
    More on topic, Unavenger said (I think) that this is not a bastard game. I don't think the killer can be Taffimai.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    This game should've been called "UPick II: Even Crazier".
    Rule Number One: Worship cookies!
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    (Taffimai is a she.)
    More on topic, Unavenger said (I think) that this is not a bastard game. I don't think the killer can be Taffimai.
    I'm terribly sorry, Taffimai... I hate learning new names. And on mobile, the gender symbol doesn't show that prominent.

    Yeah. It's absolutely horrible... And the wolves are cruel. The should have killed me instead of forcing me to live through all this confusion.

    Has anybody gained new info this night? Info we can actually trust?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Book I have a question for you.
    You have hinted at having a power that has some relation to Role Names.
    Can you tell me what this power is and what it does?
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Spoiler: Pronouns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I'm terribly sorry, Taffimai... I hate learning new names. And on mobile, the gender symbol doesn't show that prominent.
    That's ok, my gender is not a core part of my identity. Truth be told, I believe the world will be a better place when we ditch gendered pronouns and only use "they" or another agreed neutral for each other, but I accept that we aren't there yet and that for some people, it is an important distinction. Here are two kittens hugging:


    Rogan's power gave the correct answer from the point of view of our states of mind: Rogan thinks AV crossed a line, AV feels nobody appreciates her, and I think the prevailing opinion on neutrals is anti-social. Everybody's town somewhere in the multiverse!

    Anyway: Taffimai
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    The cleric was walking through a forest when he heard a loud explosion. Upon investigation, he quickly uncovered the ruins of a large tower he couldn't remember seeing there before. He decided to search the rubble for anything worth looting. At that point, I told the wizard to start rolling to see if he would stabilise.
    Hi Gac! Sorry for lynching you :(

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Just checking, what exactly was the question you asked? Would the correct answer include all neutrals or just the SK?
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Book I have a question for you.
    You have hinted at having a power that has some relation to Role Names.
    Can you tell me what this power is and what it does?
    ...what? I feel confused. Did I? I don't have one.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Just checking, what exactly was the question you asked? Would the correct answer include all neutrals or just the SK?
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cap View Post
    Who are all the players in this game with an anti-town role?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Answer
    AVATARVECNA, TAFFIMAI and SUPAGOOF are all of the players in the game with an anti-town role.
    So, unless you think that the Survivor is anti town, it should be wolves and killer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    ...what? I feel confused. Did I? I don't have one.
    When I asked you about your victory condition, you said it was a bit odd (what is this Pokémon).

    When I asked you later, you said this was about your power. I'm not sure about the exact wording, but I will look for the quotes later.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Unavenger it would be nice if you could confirm that every faction/person only has one kill color.
    Every faction only has one kill colour, every kill colour has only one faction, every person has only one kill colour, and kill colours may be shared by more than one person.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    The usual victory condition of "survive"? Or something fancy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    1. It's a bit oddish (cue 'What's That Pokémon!'} but basically the the usual.
    (I missed the quote asking about the meaning, it was after the second survivor claim)

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Oh that, it's to do with my powers so I left it out. At the cost of seeming like fext I'm not going to say more.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Every faction only has one kill colour, every kill colour has only one faction, every person has only one kill colour, and kill colours may be shared by more than one person.
    So, we have at least 4 factions. That's the number of kill colors we have seen.
    Town and wolf are clear.
    The simple option would be, there is a SK and a Survivor.

    But we have multiple Survivor claims, so either one of them is lying or there are two survivors... Would they share the faction?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Other observations... AV was shot with a pistol night 1, so the mafia wanted her dead.

    But she told us about the anti SK power...
    Arrrr... *confused screaming*

    - - - Updated - - -

    • AvatarVecna - Town read.*
    • Snowblaze - Town read.
    • Batcathat - probably not SK*
    • SupaGoof - confused read
    • Taffimai - Survivor or tinfoil SK
    • Book Wombat - Neutral claim with lots of open questions...
    • Moonfly7 - Town? evidence pending
    • BladeScape - locked town
    • Elenna - town read*
    • Metastachydium - not SK.
    • Rogan - utterly useless, except for creating noise.


    * hinted at victory condition

    So... right now, I would consider Taffimai (for her self vote and to 100% prevent a Town lynch), Book (for having too many open questions and 100% non town), maybe Goof (not that happy) and Rogan.

    Lynching me would clear my intentions and given my track record, it would not hurt town that much... and I would not get a headache by trying to clean up this mess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please don't leave me alone here... I am afraid of the dark

    So... what would be the implication of my power being right?
    AV would have to be lying. Goof would have to be a wolf, which is not that hard to believe.

    Taffimai would have to be the SK.
    Book would have to be lying about either being Survivor or not killing Gac OR there would have to be another alignment involved who killed gac.

    Book? Please don't lie to me... are you a survivor who needs to get the role right for some players before he can win?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    So, unless you think that the Survivor is anti town, it should be wolves and killer.
    If my guess is correct, there are two ways it could be "falsified":

    1) We received a true answer for the "opposite" of the question we asked.

    2) We received a false answer for the question we asked.

    If 1 were true, the opposite question would be "Who are all the players in this game with a pro-town role?", and we only got three answers, one of whom is a confirmed neutral and survivor claimant (a non-pro-town role). The idea that there are only two townies remaining is patently absurd, so either your power is random, it is wrong in a specific but complicated way I haven't thought of yet, or the second possibility (false answer for our real question) is the actual case.

    We received a false answer for the question we asked. Thus, the names we received are neither Serial Killers nor Mafia members. As corroborating evidence for this, you and I both received Supagoof and Taffamai - if we had received different names from each other, we'd have even more people who we could confirm as non-anti-town. The overlap exists to minimize the number of people you and I could clear last night.

    So now we return to the previous question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    AvatarVecna/Captain Cap/Supagoof/gac3/Book Wombat/Xihirli/bladescape/Taffamai

    All wolves in that group?
    The answer is yes. All living wolves are in this group. This is my night action speaking!
    AvatarVecna: - (as far as y'all know)
    Captain Cap: confirmed town
    Supagoof: -
    gac3: confirmed town
    Book Wombat: claimed neutral, and I believe it
    Xihirli: confirmed town
    bladescape: confirmed town
    Taffamai: confirmed neutral

    So unless y'all believe the game started with two wolves, for Rogan's first question to be correct, it'd have to be AV and Goof as final wolves. Except...I know I'm not a wolf. And I'm sure we didn't start with only two wolves. So the answer to the first question must've been wrong. And since I believe that Supagoof is cleared by the second question(s), that leaves the following people as potential mafia members:

    Snowblaze
    Batcathat
    Moonfly7
    Elenna
    Metastachydium

    Let's look at gac3's big reveal:

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Sorry Rogan. I lied. I'm a necromancer. I can provide full quotes after work if desired but for now you get the quick version

    I have one and only one power. Access to the dead chat.

    I told Cape when he died that I was a neutral and that he should help me with my power. All I would need is a single name each night. I told him I was the person from iZombie and that each night I can pick one person and if they die that night, I get to eat their brain fresh and get a single use of one of their powers. This was all, utter rubbish.

    I knew this would be a long con but I didn't see how else to effectively use my power, especially when the first death was a wolf. I wasn't even going to come forward yet but this whole mess with AV apparently being a townie and Rogans lie made me feel confident to come forward.

    Cape fed me barely anything at first. He said it would be end of night before I got a name and I wasn't sure I could trust it even once I got it. The first name I was given for the wolf kill, Elenna. Then it changed to Avatar Vecna. Made them my purple votes in a plan to try to signal the wolves that they could message me and manipulate my vote. As the deal was I vote on a pro wolf wagon in exchange for these names.

    They didn't catch on so I asked Cape if there was a "no incriminating quote" I could take word for word from their chat to draw their attention. He gave me the quote about how in Red Atlantic Cruise, we weren't wolves, just town with extra win condition. The quote was true and I checked Cape against the list to make sure he didn't just say it. Only five of us were spies in that game and in this game. Me, xi, aV, Snow, and Elena. So I assumed it was Xi, with Snow as my backup. Then Xi died. So it's snow unless wolves wanting to kill Elenna was a lie.

    Then I was given the code word Absolutely because wolves finally figured it out. So I used it a bunch to make sure they didn't miss it. I was going to wait things out. I genuinely thought Fext was a wolf because I concluded that he would want AV dead. Then when AV announced their near death, I trusted that name.

    Then it was quiet until this Rogan nonsense started. I asked the wolves publically through code and Cape privately if I should do anything about Rogan. That I had a plan for undermining him. If they said yes I should, I was going to put myself. If they said no, I was going to see what happened because why would Wolf!Rogan do that when I know AV isn't a wolf.

    Then Cape even went as far as telling me to be like book and just grab some popcorn. So I assume book is also a wolf.
    gac is correct that the line about the RAC game could only be "we" if it came from one of five people. The five possibilities are gac3 (dead town), Xihirli (dead town), AvatarVecna (confirmed town, or at least I know that's a fact, and the line doesn't actually make sense coming from me), Snowblaze (lock town), and Elenna (?). My beef with Rogan started because I'd found what looked like Rogan, Elenna, and Cao all defending each other D1, but that kinda got swallowed up by the question bomb/ragequit nonsense and forgotten about.

    Spoiler: mini-Elenna ISO
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    Let me set a scene for you: Cao is feeding info to gac3. Scumteam wanted to give towncred to a scumbuddy, but they still wanted to give an explanation for why somebody else was dead come morning, so they pulled a trick: they gave a scumbuddy name first, and then gave the name of their actual target. AV dying would "confirm" that Cao was telling the truth, and make gac trust his info more. Cao then gives gac a line from the scumchat, except he screws up and there's only five people who might've spoken the line (the ones who played RAC). Cao plays it cool and hopes he hasn't just ratted out a teammate. gac comes into thread and makes his big bomb drop statement, scum!Elenna sees it. She saw the RAC statement earlier, and she knows only a few people could've said it. She could try and convince people it's AV, but that won't last long and she's already on record trusting AV and Rogan. That leaves two options: shade gac, or shade Snowblaze. Really, town!Elenna has these options as well, except it would be less shade and more just...investigation. Trying to poke at the story to see if gac sticks to it.

    And when you read through her ISO, one thing stands out: her arguments that gac can't be trusted are kinda weak and don't really have her attention behind them. The one thing she's really focused on and hammering at is the quote, because gac thinks it's a smoking gun that proves Rogan or AV is bad actually. Rogan just assumed gac was lying, but Elenna seemed to believe him, and is just trying to convince him (and readers) that a reading where she's guilty isn't possible. This sticks her in a situation where she has to either smear the name of the person giving the info, the person everybody is townreading, the person she's been defending for hours and hours, a person who died in the night, or herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Maybe I'm just too tired but I don't understand what this means at all. You saw a quote that someone said in the wolf chat? How? Is that your power? Why do you think only the people you listed could say that quote? Maybe the last question depends on what the quote is. Can you tell us what it is?


    Honestly, same. I don't feel like major personal arguments happen all that often, for what that's worth. But given the last two games I understand if you want to leave.

    Anyways, bed now.
    "quote what quote idk what youre talking about and definitely didnt know about it until you said it just now"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    In theory, I don't see anything wrong with gac making a deal with the wolves, since presumably town!gac wouldn't actually intend to fulfill the deal.

    In practice, the issue with it is that it requires both gac and cao to be telling the truth.


    Okay, so I was wrong about AV only getting pissed off as town. Although it's also worth noting that in that game, a) they weren't a wolf, and b) the thing they were getting pissed about was specifically that they were trying to help town.


    Uh. Wow. That is extremely OP if you can just ask any question. And it makes me somewhat more suspicious of your claim, since the rules only said there might be a role that could get true/false answers, not any answer.
    "you can only trust this if you trust cao, a wolf, so you cant trust this"

    "wow rogan that power is so strong it makes me question your locked-in towniness"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Hmm yeah that makes some sense.

    I'm leaning towards voting Cap at this point, since the tiny probability of Rogan getting his power off is so good. High risks, high rewards. Gonna think about it a bit more.

    I'm not inclined to vote Snow right now based only on something a wolf supposedly said. Although this is doing a pretty good job of fueling my "but what if D1 was w/w" paranoia.

    @fext I agree, only value in lynching gac is if we think he's a wolf, no value powers-wise.
    "i dont think gac is right about the RAC thing, but if he is it must be Snowblaze"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    So if you think Cao was lying about killing AV, what makes you think the RAC quote was truthful?


    Well that happened. So much for a quiet last hour or so of the day

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh day ended earlier than I thought.
    "you cant even trust cao, the quote is probably fake"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Yeah, it's true that I find it hard to imagine Cao coming up with that specific of a lie.

    One thing that I can maybe imagine (this is pure speculation and I'm not saying that I think it's likely) is that someone in wolf chat said "in RAC they were town teams and not two mafia" or something similar that doesn't imply that the speaker played RAC, and Cao adjusted it slightly.

    Incidentally, your quote says "we were town teams with extra victory conditions", or something like that, right? (Would you mind posting it again?) That sounds to me like the speaker was actually one of the Russians or Americans, which AV was not.

    I don't think AV was faking being pissed off but it's possible that they were genuinely pissed off that Rogan had an OP power, yeah.


    A survivor with a day-kill? That sounds suspiciously like AV's claim last game when they were actually the SK. And it's notable that Taffimai only did this after AV used up their SK-kill.

    Not saying I 100% believe Wombat yet, but it is a little suspicious.

    Taffimai, why did you pick Fext to kill? Did you actually think they were the SK? Can you win with the SK (if you know?)


    Rogan already said he can't ask someone else to ask a question for him.
    (Also, y'know, the proposed ultimate question is pretty clearly the best option.)


    See my questions above. Specifically, you've been claiming Fext was an SK for a while, why wait until right at EOD?

    (Also I don't think Rogan should waste his power just checking you, and I don't expect any other seers we might have would need a statement like that. But I guess it can't hurt.)
    "okay maybe the quote isnt entirely fake, but it could have a single word changed that cao wouldn't have thought would need changing, and if he changed that word then the quote doesn't implicate anybody in particular, especially not me"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Taffimai keeps coming up with responses that sound reasonable and make sense from a neutral POV. Book Wombat, on the other hand, has all these small contradictions.

    I know they might be protected, but I don't have any strong wolf candidates right now, so I'd rather hit someone who is definitely not town even if it means the kill might be wasted. Wasting the kill is better than hitting a townie.
    But for a non survivor-claim target, Supagoof is a decent choice.

    I'm nearly certain gac has deadchat access, if only because faking Fext's writing style would be a pain. Plus that bayesian thing sounds legit (and I do actually know what it means). A few possibilities:
    1. gac is a wolf necromancer and none of the things he described happened. He's adjusting/redacting Fext, Xi, and Cap's posts to not mention this. That seems unlikely as it would be a lot of work to make the fake posts sound natural and have the right writing style.
    2. gac is a wolf necromancer, he and Cao faked their discussion to make him look town. Not impossible, although it would be weird. But this whole game is weird.
    3. gac is town but Cao lied to him about the RAC quote. Would make sense, although it's a weirdly specific lie to come up with.
    4. gac is town and Cao was telling the truth with the RAC quote. This requires Rogan to be lying except in the weird world where AV is a wolf, Cao lied about the kill target but not the quote, and AV talked as if they were Russian or American i. RAC even though they weren't.
    "the four possibilities are gac is guilty, gac is guilty, Cao lied in a very specific way to implicate me (which is stupid because im innocent), or rogan is lying (or everyone is lying to frame me)"

    Of course, now we have a plausible explanation: she knew Rogan wasn't lying, but rather mistaken. situation 4 is the correct one, it's just that Rogan received false information from his question.


    Once more, with feeling: Elenna.

    But wait, there's more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'll look into it after I die.
    Unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Unless we're both roleblocked.
    Unlikely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I never really expected this to work as intended.
    Read through that. This is about an hour to EoN. How would you expect a townie to react? With absolute, unshakeable confidence that the twin seers were protected? Not a hint of concern, about (for example) that protection resting on the shoulders of a couple untrustworthy characters? Where are the nerves? They're not there. They didn't react that way. And read in the light that rogan's first answer was reverse-true, and scum knew that immediately...it's kinda obvious.

    These posts are the distilled Essence of TMI. This read weird when it was initially posted, but after my revelation on Rogan's power, suddenly it makes perfect sense. These are taunts from a villain in disguise, who always knew full well the plan would fail, and knew full well that wolves would leave us alive and not bother blocking us because they thought the power would lead us to chase down red herrings, and is announcing their full knowledge that we have no reason to fear death or blocks...because why waste powers stopping us from asking, when the answer benefits scumteam so much?

    I have to eat, and sleep. When I wake up, I'm ISOing meta in full. Seeing how they reacted to mine, and Rogan's, and gac's big reveals. Looking for any single solitary scrap of information that could point one way or the other.

    Oh, and I'm willing to die again to prove that I'm trustworthy. Whether that's as a lynch, or a late-day suicide, I'm not picky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh yeah, and as part of the "the answers are wrong" thing, that means Taffamai is the Survivor, and Book Wombat is either mafia or (more likely) Serial Killer.


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    If my guess is correct, there are two ways it could be "falsified":

    1) We received a true answer for the "opposite" of the question we asked.

    2) We received a false answer for the question we asked.

    If 1 were true, the opposite question would be "Who are all the players in this game with a pro-town role?", and we only got three answers, one of whom is a confirmed neutral and survivor claimant (a non-pro-town role). The idea that there are only two townies remaining is patently absurd, so either your power is random, it is wrong in a specific but complicated way I haven't thought of yet, or the second possibility (false answer for our real question) is the actual case.

    We received a false answer for the question we asked. Thus, the names we received are neither Serial Killers nor Mafia members. As corroborating evidence for this, you and I both received Supagoof and Taffamai - if we had received different names from each other, we'd have even more people who we could confirm as non-anti-town. The overlap exists to minimize the number of people you and I could clear last night.

    So now we return to the previous question:



    AvatarVecna: - (as far as y'all know)
    Captain Cap: confirmed town
    Supagoof: -
    gac3: confirmed town
    Book Wombat: claimed neutral, and I believe it
    Xihirli: confirmed town
    bladescape: confirmed town
    Taffamai: confirmed neutral

    So unless y'all believe the game started with two wolves, for Rogan's first question to be correct, it'd have to be AV and Goof as final wolves. Except...I know I'm not a wolf. And I'm sure we didn't start with only two wolves. So the answer to the first question must've been wrong. And since I believe that Supagoof is cleared by the second question(s), that leaves the following people as potential mafia members:

    Snowblaze
    Batcathat
    Moonfly7
    Elenna
    Metastachydium

    Let's look at gac3's big reveal:



    gac is correct that the line about the RAC game could only be "we" if it came from one of five people. The five possibilities are gac3 (dead town), Xihirli (dead town), AvatarVecna (confirmed town, or at least I know that's a fact, and the line doesn't actually make sense coming from me), Snowblaze (lock town), and Elenna (?). My beef with Rogan started because I'd found what looked like Rogan, Elenna, and Cao all defending each other D1, but that kinda got swallowed up by the question bomb/ragequit nonsense and forgotten about.

    Spoiler: mini-Elenna ISO
    Show
    Let me set a scene for you: Cao is feeding info to gac3. Scumteam wanted to give towncred to a scumbuddy, but they still wanted to give an explanation for why somebody else was dead come morning, so they pulled a trick: they gave a scumbuddy name first, and then gave the name of their actual target. AV dying would "confirm" that Cao was telling the truth, and make gac trust his info more. Cao then gives gac a line from the scumchat, except he screws up and there's only five people who might've spoken the line (the ones who played RAC). Cao plays it cool and hopes he hasn't just ratted out a teammate. gac comes into thread and makes his big bomb drop statement, scum!Elenna sees it. She saw the RAC statement earlier, and she knows only a few people could've said it. She could try and convince people it's AV, but that won't last long and she's already on record trusting AV and Rogan. That leaves two options: shade gac, or shade Snowblaze. Really, town!Elenna has these options as well, except it would be less shade and more just...investigation. Trying to poke at the story to see if gac sticks to it.

    And when you read through her ISO, one thing stands out: her arguments that gac can't be trusted are kinda weak and don't really have her attention behind them. The one thing she's really focused on and hammering at is the quote, because gac thinks it's a smoking gun that proves Rogan or AV is bad actually. Rogan just assumed gac was lying, but Elenna seemed to believe him, and is just trying to convince him (and readers) that a reading where she's guilty isn't possible. This sticks her in a situation where she has to either smear the name of the person giving the info, the person everybody is townreading, the person she's been defending for hours and hours, a person who died in the night, or herself.



    "quote what quote idk what youre talking about and definitely didnt know about it until you said it just now"



    "you can only trust this if you trust cao, a wolf, so you cant trust this"

    "wow rogan that power is so strong it makes me question your locked-in towniness"



    "i dont think gac is right about the RAC thing, but if he is it must be Snowblaze"



    "you cant even trust cao, the quote is probably fake"



    "okay maybe the quote isnt entirely fake, but it could have a single word changed that cao wouldn't have thought would need changing, and if he changed that word then the quote doesn't implicate anybody in particular, especially not me"



    "the four possibilities are gac is guilty, gac is guilty, Cao lied in a very specific way to implicate me (which is stupid because im innocent), or rogan is lying (or everyone is lying to frame me)"

    Of course, now we have a plausible explanation: she knew Rogan wasn't lying, but rather mistaken. situation 4 is the correct one, it's just that Rogan received false information from his question.


    Once more, with feeling: Elenna.

    But wait, there's more!



    Read through that. This is about an hour to EoN. How would you expect a townie to react? With absolute, unshakeable confidence that the twin seers were protected? Not a hint of concern, about (for example) that protection resting on the shoulders of a couple untrustworthy characters? Where are the nerves? They're not there. They didn't react that way. And read in the light that rogan's first answer was reverse-true, and scum knew that immediately...it's kinda obvious.

    These posts are the distilled Essence of TMI. This read weird when it was initially posted, but after my revelation on Rogan's power, suddenly it makes perfect sense. These are taunts from a villain in disguise, who always knew full well the plan would fail, and knew full well that wolves would leave us alive and not bother blocking us because they thought the power would lead us to chase down red herrings, and is announcing their full knowledge that we have no reason to fear death or blocks...because why waste powers stopping us from asking, when the answer benefits scumteam so much?

    I have to eat, and sleep. When I wake up, I'm ISOing meta in full. Seeing how they reacted to mine, and Rogan's, and gac's big reveals. Looking for any single solitary scrap of information that could point one way or the other.

    Oh, and I'm willing to die again to prove that I'm trustworthy. Whether that's as a lynch, or a late-day suicide, I'm not picky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh yeah, and as part of the "the answers are wrong" thing, that means Taffamai is the Survivor, and Book Wombat is either mafia or (more likely) Serial Killer.
    I like this world a lot more than the extremely tinfoil world where Taffamai somehow is the killer and AV is an extremely ruthless wolf.

    But I would like to check Book Wombat first. If the theory is right, we remove one kill from the game.

    Something from day 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    If I flip Town:
    Metastachydium, AvatarVecna, Snowblaze, Elenna are checked for hostile motive. Keep an eye on Rogan.

    If I flip Evil:
    Check everyone I could have pushed to 3 votes for scum. That includes: Xihirli, Rogan, CaoimhinTheCape. Clear Elenna, AV, and Meta.

    Translating that to reads:
    Rogan, Snowblaze as Town (I don't know that I could be more clear on that).
    Elenna as Town lean, not as strong as Rogan/Snow.
    SupaGoof as No Info. (literally nothing)
    AV, Xi, Captain Cap as Neutral. (lack of useful content)
    Blade was a small Wolf Lean.
    BCH, Book Wombat as Wolf lean.
    gac3 vote (implying I think he's Wolf).
    Rule of 3 on the clear list in case of a flip?
    Elenna near the top of the read list, in case he somehow survives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Good point. I checked an older QT and I could post there.
    Unavenger, I'm curious, are you able to post in my personal QT? Alternatively, could you maybe just send me a new QT? Sorry.
    Last time, I said I would not try to read this. But let's give it a try...
    Scum!Elenna making a show of being unable her personal QT, which she totally would have as town. What are the chances of exactly one QT not working, while every other did?
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    I'm going to laugh if the Mafia team turns out to be CaoimhinTheCape, Rogan and, AvatarVecna.
    I would applaud them if that were the case, but if it were, AV would have had no reason for the rage quit, and I don't believe it was faked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I'm terribly sorry, Taffimai... I hate learning new names. And on mobile, the gender symbol doesn't show that prominent.

    Yeah. It's absolutely horrible... And the wolves are cruel. The should have killed me instead of forcing me to live through all this confusion.

    Has anybody gained new info this night? Info we can actually trust?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Book I have a question for you.
    You have hinted at having a power that has some relation to Role Names.
    Can you tell me what this power is and what it does?
    First things first, I'm laying this all out on the table now. Snowblaze is going to have answers for us. She should have, if she was smart, checked out the roles of one of the others we found suspicious. Also, is anybody suspicious that we have literally no idea what Snow's ability is? Not that I'm suspecting her, but still.

    If Meta is a threat, we might be screwed. And I may have messed up bigtime. But I'm pretty sure Meta is safe for now.


    And here is my honest belief about the Ultimate Question, and I know my hunches have been off, a lot, but I've finally started to tell what my different intuitions mean. If I had trusted that nagging voice in my head before, I wouldn't have been wrong multiple times. But there's no nag here. So here's what I think happened:

    I don't know what the text to your power is, but I think having two Prophets created some kind of feedback, causing you to get each others names. I think, that if that wasn't the case, you would have both gotten a list of incorrect names, not each others. I think we should, for now, vote the Taff and the Goof wagon, and I still firmly believe in the Bookwombat one. That's just my thoughts on it though.

    _____Update______

    Still unsure about the Taff/Goof thing, and Taff is supposedly cleared by the blue text. So it's still weird for me, hence the BW vote. No nagging feeling this time, it feels solid. Thats my vote, unlikely to change unless someone has big news.
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-23 at 07:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    That's what you get for trying to cheat, I suppose. Or you both are Evil.


    Until then, though: shall we kill Supagoof?
    No cheat involved, but using the tools we were given.
    Turns out, they were not that OP, but might still be useful.

    Vote count
    Supagoof (1): Metastachydium
    Taffimai (1): Taffimai
    Elenna (1): AvatarVecna
    Book Wombat (2): Rogan, moonfly7

    Not voting: Everyone else

    - - - Updated - - -

    Moon in case you didn't know this, in this part of the forum, you can post twice in a row and they will automatically merged, with the updated line inserted.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    No cheat involved, but using the tools we were given.
    Turns out, they were not that OP, but might still be useful.

    Vote count
    Supagoof (1): Metastachydium
    Taffimai (1): Taffimai
    Elenna (1): AvatarVecna
    Book Wombat (2): Rogan, moonfly7

    Not voting: Everyone else

    - - - Updated - - -

    Moon in case you didn't know this, in this part of the forum, you can post twice in a row and they will automatically merged, with the updated line inserted.
    Wait really? I thought everyone was doing that manually. That...I feel very dumb.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Wait really? I thought everyone was doing that manually. That...I feel very dumb.
    Don't feel dumb. It's confusing, since it doesn't work this way in other parts of the forum. After seeing it used multiple times by different players, I finally asked how they where doing it and was surprised about the answer. It's such a useful feature for this kind of game, it's amazing. It should be advertised a bit better.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Wait really? I thought everyone was doing that manually. That...I feel very dumb.
    Yup, forum thing. I think if there's an hour between the posts they don't get merged. Otherwise you get the little "updated" line


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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Ok, that is ridiculously helpful.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Ok, that is ridiculously helpful.
    Glad to be finally able to help. (Okay, the vote counts might have helped as well, but otherwise... if Elenna really is a wolf, she must have laughed so hard when I jumped AV in her defense...)
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


    More Mafia

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    I was not blocked.

    I ended up targetting Book Wombat because I forgot to change targets.

    So: Book Wombat was resistant to night kills.

    I want to say Book is SK.

    Elanna/Meta/BatCat contain all wolves.

    Maybe one sneaking out.

    (Meta added because I liked AV's point)
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    @AV of course I'm questioning the quote. From my POV if it's true it requires you or Snow to be a wolf, both of whom I'm townreading (not to mention that it doesn't really make sense for you to say it that way). So it just makes more sense for it to be incorrect somehow.

    Pressure vote on Meta, at least until they answer AV's questions.

    If they have a good explanation I'll likely switch to BW. All power stuff aside, they have an extremely sketchy claim for reasons discussed in the night. And they're guaranteed non-town.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Although, didn't Snow say they had a mechanical reason to townread Meta? Snow, want to share? (Or was that moonfly?)
    (edit: nevermind, yeah, that was moonfly)
    Last edited by Elenna; 2021-10-23 at 09:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    @AV of course I'm questioning the quote. From my POV if it's true it requires you or Snow to be a wolf, both of whom I'm townreading (not to mention that it doesn't really make sense for you to say it that way). So it just makes more sense for it to be incorrect somehow.

    Pressure vote on Meta, at least until they answer AV's questions.

    If they have a good explanation I'll likely switch to BW. All power stuff aside, they have an extremely sketchy claim for reasons discussed in the night. And they're guaranteed non-town.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Although, didn't Snow say they had a mechanical reason to townread Meta? Snow, want to share? (Or was that moonfly?)
    Mechanical reason to read me. Meta was cleared of being the serial killer only, by AV's pull the lever ability.

    Also, how sure are you and AV that Meta is a threat? I want exact numbers as soon as possible because I may have made a series of errors.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If he is, you know, actually Mafia.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Morning.

    Rogan, I didn't receive anything related to my POE being right night one.

    So...uh, why is gac3 dead? Also I'm guessing the beater-to-death is the Serial Killer. Which implies that since the colour is different to Taffimai's, she's not the Serial Killer. So either there's some weird third neutral around or Taffimai is Survivor and BW is scum of some kind.

    Taffimai, why are you self-voting?

    AV... I'm not prepared to clear Supagoof off this. I think we need to kill Wombat today, and then I'm going to build a new POE which hopefully won't be horribly wrong.

    The Elenna case makes sense, surface-level at least, but there's a lot of fact-checking and rereading I need to do to have any confidence in wolf!Elenna.

    I. Still think Meta is town. But there's now paranoia there as well, because what if my wall of waffle was right? Note to self: check out that quote I was clearing them for, work out how clearing it actually is.

    I don't think you should read into the QT thing too much, Rogan.

    Okay, let's talk about the Moonfly thing. Night one I was approached by a dark patron who gave me a one-shot scry that let me determine a player's role name and alignment. I picked up from the hints Moonfly gave day two that it was probably them, and they confirmed they knew what I was talking about. Hence the townread.

    Unfortunately I decided that gac3 was unlikely to be nightkilled and would be very useful to have a clear on. So, uh, I don't have any useful results to share. Sorry about that.

    (Also my powers will remain secret until I have important revelations to make. Which I don't.)

    Anyway, Book Wombat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Right. What do we have?

    Moonfly is town because they gave me a scry. If they're a wolf then that's extremely anti-their-win-con and if they're SK then why does an SK have a role that doesn't help them win in any way?

    bladescape is town because he has a town kill colour.

    Taffimai is Survivor because she has a different kill colour to the SK kill and the mafia kill.

    Book Wombat is scum because if Taffimai is the Survivor he must be fakeclaiming Survivor.

    That's all I can be 100% sure of without rereading stuff. AV, Rogan and Meta are all probably town atp, though.

    Pending checking of those: Supagoof/Batcathat/Elenna is my POE once BW is dead.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what I’m doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    I'm good with Book Wombat
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    I was kind of hoping y'all would've figured out the meaning of the not-so-Ultimate Answer while I slept. Oh well. If we just ignore both the first and second result of Rogan's power for a moment, it does seem like Book Wombat looks the most shady.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    I was kind of hoping y'all would've figured out the meaning of the not-so-Ultimate Answer while I slept. Oh well. If we just ignore both the first and second result of Rogan's power for a moment, it does seem like Book Wombat looks the most shady.
    Do you think he's more likely to flip SK or wolf?

    If he's SK, who are the wolves?

    If he's wolf, who are his partner(s) and the SK?
    I have returned.

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    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what I’m doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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