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2021-10-23, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
That's a good point - wolves probably knew your first answer was wrong, so they didn't bother to stop you.
My guess is the killer thought, like I did, that gac's power wasn't that good and wolves probably wouldn't shoot them, since obviously the SK doesn't want their kill to overlap with other kills.
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If all Rogan's answers are false (something I'm not convinced of), would his first question mean that all the wolves are not in that list? Or just that some of the wolves are not in that list?I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-23, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2021-10-23, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-23, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
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2021-10-23, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
So... let's disregard AV and me for a moment...
Why would we have Taff on our list? She can't be the one who was beating gac or she would need to have two different kill colors. Which I strongly doubt.
Unavenger it would be nice if you could confirm that every faction/person only has one kill color.
Adding her to the list makes sure we can disregard it right away.Last edited by Rogan; 2021-10-23 at 04:46 PM.
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2021-10-23, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2021-10-23, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
This game should've been called "UPick II: Even Crazier".
Every day...
Avatar by linklele!
Discord: bookwhyrm, feel free to DM.
Book Wombat's Extended Signature
SpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoiler-. --- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / .... . .-. .
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2021-10-23, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I'm terribly sorry, Taffimai... I hate learning new names. And on mobile, the gender symbol doesn't show that prominent.
Yeah. It's absolutely horrible... And the wolves are cruel. The should have killed me instead of forcing me to live through all this confusion.
Has anybody gained new info this night? Info we can actually trust?
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Book I have a question for you.
You have hinted at having a power that has some relation to Role Names.
Can you tell me what this power is and what it does?Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
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- GMT
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Spoiler: PronounsThat's ok, my gender is not a core part of my identity. Truth be told, I believe the world will be a better place when we ditch gendered pronouns and only use "they" or another agreed neutral for each other, but I accept that we aren't there yet and that for some people, it is an important distinction. Here are two kittens hugging:
Rogan's power gave the correct answer from the point of view of our states of mind: Rogan thinks AV crossed a line, AV feels nobody appreciates her, and I think the prevailing opinion on neutrals is anti-social. Everybody's town somewhere in the multiverse!
Anyway: Taffimai78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2021-10-23, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Just checking, what exactly was the question you asked? Would the correct answer include all neutrals or just the SK?
I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-23, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Every day...
Avatar by linklele!
Discord: bookwhyrm, feel free to DM.
Book Wombat's Extended Signature
SpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoiler-. --- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / .... . .-. .
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2021-10-23, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Originally Posted by The Answer
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When I asked you about your victory condition, you said it was a bit odd (what is this Pokémon).
When I asked you later, you said this was about your power. I'm not sure about the exact wording, but I will look for the quotes later.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2021-10-23, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
(I missed the quote asking about the meaning, it was after the second survivor claim)
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So, we have at least 4 factions. That's the number of kill colors we have seen.
Town and wolf are clear.
The simple option would be, there is a SK and a Survivor.
But we have multiple Survivor claims, so either one of them is lying or there are two survivors... Would they share the faction?
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Other observations... AV was shot with a pistol night 1, so the mafia wanted her dead.
But she told us about the anti SK power...
Arrrr... *confused screaming*
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- AvatarVecna - Town read.*
- Snowblaze - Town read.
- Batcathat - probably not SK*
- SupaGoof - confused read
- Taffimai - Survivor or tinfoil SK
- Book Wombat - Neutral claim with lots of open questions...
- Moonfly7 - Town? evidence pending
- BladeScape - locked town
- Elenna - town read*
- Metastachydium - not SK.
- Rogan - utterly useless, except for creating noise.
* hinted at victory condition
So... right now, I would consider Taffimai (for her self vote and to 100% prevent a Town lynch), Book (for having too many open questions and 100% non town), maybe Goof (not that happy) and Rogan.
Lynching me would clear my intentions and given my track record, it would not hurt town that much... and I would not get a headache by trying to clean up this mess.
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Please don't leave me alone here... I am afraid of the dark
So... what would be the implication of my power being right?
AV would have to be lying. Goof would have to be a wolf, which is not that hard to believe.
Taffimai would have to be the SK.
Book would have to be lying about either being Survivor or not killing Gac OR there would have to be another alignment involved who killed gac.
Book? Please don't lie to me... are you a survivor who needs to get the role right for some players before he can win?Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
If my guess is correct, there are two ways it could be "falsified":
1) We received a true answer for the "opposite" of the question we asked.
2) We received a false answer for the question we asked.
If 1 were true, the opposite question would be "Who are all the players in this game with a pro-town role?", and we only got three answers, one of whom is a confirmed neutral and survivor claimant (a non-pro-town role). The idea that there are only two townies remaining is patently absurd, so either your power is random, it is wrong in a specific but complicated way I haven't thought of yet, or the second possibility (false answer for our real question) is the actual case.
We received a false answer for the question we asked. Thus, the names we received are neither Serial Killers nor Mafia members. As corroborating evidence for this, you and I both received Supagoof and Taffamai - if we had received different names from each other, we'd have even more people who we could confirm as non-anti-town. The overlap exists to minimize the number of people you and I could clear last night.
So now we return to the previous question:
AvatarVecna: - (as far as y'all know)
Captain Cap: confirmed town
Supagoof: -
gac3: confirmed town
Book Wombat: claimed neutral, and I believe it
Xihirli: confirmed town
bladescape: confirmed town
Taffamai: confirmed neutral
So unless y'all believe the game started with two wolves, for Rogan's first question to be correct, it'd have to be AV and Goof as final wolves. Except...I know I'm not a wolf. And I'm sure we didn't start with only two wolves. So the answer to the first question must've been wrong. And since I believe that Supagoof is cleared by the second question(s), that leaves the following people as potential mafia members:
Snowblaze
Batcathat
Moonfly7
Elenna
Metastachydium
Let's look at gac3's big reveal:
gac is correct that the line about the RAC game could only be "we" if it came from one of five people. The five possibilities are gac3 (dead town), Xihirli (dead town), AvatarVecna (confirmed town, or at least I know that's a fact, and the line doesn't actually make sense coming from me), Snowblaze (lock town), and Elenna (?). My beef with Rogan started because I'd found what looked like Rogan, Elenna, and Cao all defending each other D1, but that kinda got swallowed up by the question bomb/ragequit nonsense and forgotten about.
Spoiler: mini-Elenna ISOLet me set a scene for you: Cao is feeding info to gac3. Scumteam wanted to give towncred to a scumbuddy, but they still wanted to give an explanation for why somebody else was dead come morning, so they pulled a trick: they gave a scumbuddy name first, and then gave the name of their actual target. AV dying would "confirm" that Cao was telling the truth, and make gac trust his info more. Cao then gives gac a line from the scumchat, except he screws up and there's only five people who might've spoken the line (the ones who played RAC). Cao plays it cool and hopes he hasn't just ratted out a teammate. gac comes into thread and makes his big bomb drop statement, scum!Elenna sees it. She saw the RAC statement earlier, and she knows only a few people could've said it. She could try and convince people it's AV, but that won't last long and she's already on record trusting AV and Rogan. That leaves two options: shade gac, or shade Snowblaze. Really, town!Elenna has these options as well, except it would be less shade and more just...investigation. Trying to poke at the story to see if gac sticks to it.
And when you read through her ISO, one thing stands out: her arguments that gac can't be trusted are kinda weak and don't really have her attention behind them. The one thing she's really focused on and hammering at is the quote, because gac thinks it's a smoking gun that proves Rogan or AV is bad actually. Rogan just assumed gac was lying, but Elenna seemed to believe him, and is just trying to convince him (and readers) that a reading where she's guilty isn't possible. This sticks her in a situation where she has to either smear the name of the person giving the info, the person everybody is townreading, the person she's been defending for hours and hours, a person who died in the night, or herself.
"quote what quote idk what youre talking about and definitely didnt know about it until you said it just now"
"you can only trust this if you trust cao, a wolf, so you cant trust this"
"wow rogan that power is so strong it makes me question your locked-in towniness"
"i dont think gac is right about the RAC thing, but if he is it must be Snowblaze"
"you cant even trust cao, the quote is probably fake"
"okay maybe the quote isnt entirely fake, but it could have a single word changed that cao wouldn't have thought would need changing, and if he changed that word then the quote doesn't implicate anybody in particular, especially not me"
"the four possibilities are gac is guilty, gac is guilty, Cao lied in a very specific way to implicate me (which is stupid because im innocent), or rogan is lying (or everyone is lying to frame me)"
Of course, now we have a plausible explanation: she knew Rogan wasn't lying, but rather mistaken. situation 4 is the correct one, it's just that Rogan received false information from his question.
Once more, with feeling: Elenna.
But wait, there's more!
Read through that. This is about an hour to EoN. How would you expect a townie to react? With absolute, unshakeable confidence that the twin seers were protected? Not a hint of concern, about (for example) that protection resting on the shoulders of a couple untrustworthy characters? Where are the nerves? They're not there. They didn't react that way. And read in the light that rogan's first answer was reverse-true, and scum knew that immediately...it's kinda obvious.
These posts are the distilled Essence of TMI. This read weird when it was initially posted, but after my revelation on Rogan's power, suddenly it makes perfect sense. These are taunts from a villain in disguise, who always knew full well the plan would fail, and knew full well that wolves would leave us alive and not bother blocking us because they thought the power would lead us to chase down red herrings, and is announcing their full knowledge that we have no reason to fear death or blocks...because why waste powers stopping us from asking, when the answer benefits scumteam so much?
I have to eat, and sleep. When I wake up, I'm ISOing meta in full. Seeing how they reacted to mine, and Rogan's, and gac's big reveals. Looking for any single solitary scrap of information that could point one way or the other.
Oh, and I'm willing to die again to prove that I'm trustworthy. Whether that's as a lynch, or a late-day suicide, I'm not picky.
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Oh yeah, and as part of the "the answers are wrong" thing, that means Taffamai is the Survivor, and Book Wombat is either mafia or (more likely) Serial Killer.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-23, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I like this world a lot more than the extremely tinfoil world where Taffamai somehow is the killer and AV is an extremely ruthless wolf.
But I would like to check Book Wombat first. If the theory is right, we remove one kill from the game.
Something from day 1:
Rule of 3 on the clear list in case of a flip?
Elenna near the top of the read list, in case he somehow survives?
Last time, I said I would not try to read this. But let's give it a try...
Scum!Elenna making a show of being unable her personal QT, which she totally would have as town. What are the chances of exactly one QT not working, while every other did?Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I would applaud them if that were the case, but if it were, AV would have had no reason for the rage quit, and I don't believe it was faked.
First things first, I'm laying this all out on the table now. Snowblaze is going to have answers for us. She should have, if she was smart, checked out the roles of one of the others we found suspicious. Also, is anybody suspicious that we have literally no idea what Snow's ability is? Not that I'm suspecting her, but still.
If Meta is a threat, we might be screwed. And I may have messed up bigtime. But I'm pretty sure Meta is safe for now.
And here is my honest belief about the Ultimate Question, and I know my hunches have been off, a lot, but I've finally started to tell what my different intuitions mean. If I had trusted that nagging voice in my head before, I wouldn't have been wrong multiple times. But there's no nag here. So here's what I think happened:
I don't know what the text to your power is, but I think having two Prophets created some kind of feedback, causing you to get each others names. I think, that if that wasn't the case, you would have both gotten a list of incorrect names, not each others. I think we should, for now, vote the Taff and the Goof wagon, and I still firmly believe in the Bookwombat one. That's just my thoughts on it though.
_____Update______
Still unsure about the Taff/Goof thing, and Taff is supposedly cleared by the blue text. So it's still weird for me, hence the BW vote. No nagging feeling this time, it feels solid. Thats my vote, unlikely to change unless someone has big news.
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2021-10-23, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
No cheat involved, but using the tools we were given.
Turns out, they were not that OP, but might still be useful.
Vote count
Supagoof (1): Metastachydium
Taffimai (1): Taffimai
Elenna (1): AvatarVecna
Book Wombat (2): Rogan, moonfly7
Not voting: Everyone else
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Moon in case you didn't know this, in this part of the forum, you can post twice in a row and they will automatically merged, with the updated line inserted.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
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2021-10-23, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Don't feel dumb. It's confusing, since it doesn't work this way in other parts of the forum. After seeing it used multiple times by different players, I finally asked how they where doing it and was surprised about the answer. It's such a useful feature for this kind of game, it's amazing. It should be advertised a bit better.
Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-23, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2021-10-23, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-23, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I was not blocked.
I ended up targetting Book Wombat because I forgot to change targets.
So: Book Wombat was resistant to night kills.
I want to say Book is SK.
Elanna/Meta/BatCat contain all wolves.
Maybe one sneaking out.
(Meta added because I liked AV's point)"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2021-10-23, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
@AV of course I'm questioning the quote. From my POV if it's true it requires you or Snow to be a wolf, both of whom I'm townreading (not to mention that it doesn't really make sense for you to say it that way). So it just makes more sense for it to be incorrect somehow.
Pressure vote on Meta, at least until they answer AV's questions.
If they have a good explanation I'll likely switch to BW. All power stuff aside, they have an extremely sketchy claim for reasons discussed in the night. And they're guaranteed non-town.
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Although, didn't Snow say they had a mechanical reason to townread Meta? Snow, want to share? (Or was that moonfly?)
(edit: nevermind, yeah, that was moonfly)Last edited by Elenna; 2021-10-23 at 09:33 PM.
I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-23, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Mechanical reason to read me. Meta was cleared of being the serial killer only, by AV's pull the lever ability.
Also, how sure are you and AV that Meta is a threat? I want exact numbers as soon as possible because I may have made a series of errors.
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If he is, you know, actually Mafia.
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2021-10-24, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Gender
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Morning.
Rogan, I didn't receive anything related to my POE being right night one.
So...uh, why is gac3 dead? Also I'm guessing the beater-to-death is the Serial Killer. Which implies that since the colour is different to Taffimai's, she's not the Serial Killer. So either there's some weird third neutral around or Taffimai is Survivor and BW is scum of some kind.
Taffimai, why are you self-voting?
AV... I'm not prepared to clear Supagoof off this. I think we need to kill Wombat today, and then I'm going to build a new POE which hopefully won't be horribly wrong.
The Elenna case makes sense, surface-level at least, but there's a lot of fact-checking and rereading I need to do to have any confidence in wolf!Elenna.
I. Still think Meta is town. But there's now paranoia there as well, because what if my wall of waffle was right? Note to self: check out that quote I was clearing them for, work out how clearing it actually is.
I don't think you should read into the QT thing too much, Rogan.
Okay, let's talk about the Moonfly thing. Night one I was approached by a dark patron who gave me a one-shot scry that let me determine a player's role name and alignment. I picked up from the hints Moonfly gave day two that it was probably them, and they confirmed they knew what I was talking about. Hence the townread.
Unfortunately I decided that gac3 was unlikely to be nightkilled and would be very useful to have a clear on. So, uh, I don't have any useful results to share. Sorry about that.
(Also my powers will remain secret until I have important revelations to make. Which I don't.)
Anyway, Book Wombat.
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Right. What do we have?
Moonfly is town because they gave me a scry. If they're a wolf then that's extremely anti-their-win-con and if they're SK then why does an SK have a role that doesn't help them win in any way?
bladescape is town because he has a town kill colour.
Taffimai is Survivor because she has a different kill colour to the SK kill and the mafia kill.
Book Wombat is scum because if Taffimai is the Survivor he must be fakeclaiming Survivor.
That's all I can be 100% sure of without rereading stuff. AV, Rogan and Meta are all probably town atp, though.
Pending checking of those: Supagoof/Batcathat/Elenna is my POE once BW is dead.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2021-10-24, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Australia
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I'm good with Book Wombat
"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2021-10-24, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I was kind of hoping y'all would've figured out the meaning of the not-so-Ultimate Answer while I slept. Oh well. If we just ignore both the first and second result of Rogan's power for a moment, it does seem like Book Wombat looks the most shady.
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2021-10-24, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Gender
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature