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2021-10-24, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Ultimately it doesn't matter though. I think that there are only four people who could possibly be wolves, even if I'm willing to admit that Snow and Supagoof could be considered after that point. If I'm wrong, it doesn't actually matter, because of this:
Here we are, start of D4. The town players are blade, rogan, and whichever of AV/meta the wolves didn't kill. The neutral is taffimai. The scumbuddies are Snowblaze and Supagoof.
And everybody knows it.
Even if I'm wrong about goof, it doesn't matter. We check four people from our list of six, and now town knows the alignments of all living players...in a game where it's three townies and two scum. Scum will need to get taffimai on their side to even have a chance. And that's assuming we don't get lucky with our three kills and hit a scum player by accident!
If I'm right, and there's only four possible people who could be scum, then the above quote-plan checks all of them today and tonight. Snow and goof are town in this world, and both of the remaining mafia die in a hail of gunfire (along with one innocent life, rest in pepperoni). D4 never starts because all scum are dead and the game is over.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-24, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Elenna, just for my wounded confidence in my memory, did the situation in the thing happen like I described?
Spoiler: Voting History, thanks Taff!Code:Meta Supagoof (1) Taffimai Taffimai (1) AV Elenna (1) Rogan Wombat (1) Moonfly Wombat (2) Elenna Meta (1) Snow Wombat (3) Blade Wombat (4) BatCat Wombat (5) Elenna BatCat (1) Meta (0) Meta BatCat (2) Supagoof (0) Rogan BatCat (3) Dead Wombat (4) Moonfly Supagoof (1) Dead Wombat (3)
Spoiler: A table, please do not flip
Player Name Status? Identity?/Alignment? Powers? AvatarVecna Alive ??? JoaT (each power is one-use)??
Bane?? (Used, failed)
Kill (need identity)??
Dayvig (works only on Serial Killer, used, failed)
Feedback power (only after 1 shot immunity?)
Duplicate power (need exact name, used successfully)Captain Cap Dead The Pied Piper of Hamelin/Town Roleblock, vote manipulation effect Snowblaze Alive ??? ??? Batcathat Alive ??? ??? Supagoof Alive ??? Protection, Beast?? Used on Rogan n2, not triggered Taffimai Alive ???/Survivor?? Dayvig (last to vote, used)
Lynch protection (used)gac3 extra Dead, for real this time Melinda Gordon/Town Dead chat access Book Wombat Dead Mr Hyde/ Killer & Dr Jekyll / Survivor Kill&night immunity / block & -1 vote fext Dead Flying Pumpkin/Town Night 1 Kill Immunity
Kill
Fast kill (only activates against Mafia/Serial Killer, one use)moonfly7 Alive ??? Gifting powers (full scry, kill, ..) Xihirli Wanted: Dead or Alive Blue Angel/Town Roleblock
Kill (only those previously roleblocked)bladescape Alive (Game Show Host??)/Town Kill Elenna Alive ??? Metastachydium Alive ??? Permanent Night kill immunity for targets?? CaoimhinTheCape Dead Cecil Palmer/Mafia Mafia Kill
Dawn broadcastRogan Alive ??? Prophecy, wrong results
Please check and help me fill the gaps.
Snow and BatCatHat it might be time to claim at least some parts of your skillset.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Well, you still gotta lynch Meta if his kill is red. But I doubt that's gonna happen. I for one, am all for the plan, but I will point out it's flaws because understanding how we can make it better is important.
Your assuming they'll kill you or Rogan, I don't think they will. why on earth do they care if you live or die? Rogans power has to many flaws to be an ace in the hole now, and you yourself are out of any real threatening powers(that we know of). If I was mafia I'd kill you 2 last, assuming you even can Night kill the people Meta has claimed a Perma protection on(if he's telling the truth, you can't). it's possible there's at least one mafia roleblocker left, and equally possible that they kill one of our kill roles. And if Meta is mafia, he's going to not use his kill ability, and then claim it was blocked, thus ruining the plan.
Also, if your clearing supagoof, you need to consider that Elena has no reason to clear goof if goof really is Town, unless Elena is also town. So if you have Goof in your kill last brakcet, Elena might need to be there instead of snow, but that's just my opinion.
That's just everything I think can go wrong off the top of my head, that being said, I still wholeheartedly endorse it, and will drop my vote onElenafor now. Unless you change the target, or Snow has unsatisfactory claims.
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Also I have not gotten a response on the kill color thing, waiting or Unavenger to answer me on that.
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2021-10-24, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Nothing wrong with nitpicking to improve things.
Your assuming they'll kill you or Rogan, I don't think they will. why on earth do they care if you live or die? Rogans power has to many flaws to be an ace in the hole now, and you yourself are out of any real threatening powers(that we know of).
And if Meta is mafia, he's going to not use his kill ability, and then claim it was blocked, thus ruining the plan.
D3: 7-1-2. lynch Elenna (town). 6-1-2.
N3: 6-1-2. scum NK AV (town). blade NK moon (town). 4-1-2.
Killing anybody besides AV N3 either clears the pool for town, kills the neutral ally, or reveals meta's lie early. At this point, it's D3, and we've still got Meta and BCH to check from my 4, and goof/snow if it turns out I'm wrong (with meta secretly being one of the wolves).
D4: 4-1-2. lynch BCH (town). 3-1-2.
N4: 3-1-2. scum NK blade or Rogan (town). blade NK meta (scum). 2-1-1.
Under this plan, meta is the last one checked, and since they know the jig is up, they kill one of the supposedly-perma-baned townies. At this point, it's D4, we've still got goof and Snow to check, and there's only one scum left. It's possible (maybe even likely) that Elenna, Moon, or BCH flipped scum instead of town and the game is over instead. But we're talking worst-case scenario here. At this point, the town is Snow, Goof, Taffimai, and either Rogan or bladescape. Rogan is a bad choice for scum because he gets two more night's of questions to play with. bladescape is a bad choice for scum because they're terrifyingly good at analysis. This isn't quite the slam dunk the other "worst case scenarios" were for town, but it's still pretty great tbh.
Let's rewind, and assume that meta is town but just got blocked from killing N3.
D3: 7-1-2. lynch elenna (own). 6-1-2.
N3: 6-1-2. scum NK AV (town). blade NK moon (town). 4-1-2.
D4: 4-1-2. lynch BCH (town). 3-1-2.
N4: 3-1-2. blade NK meta (town). 2-1-2
If meta is town, but gets blocked, and nothing interferes with anybody else's kills, the game ends in a coinflip decided by Taffimai. If elenna/moon/BCH flipped scum instead...
N4: 4-1-2. scum NK goof (town). blade NK meta (town). 2-1-2
...then once again, the game ends in a coinflip decided by taffimai.
Of course, there is one thing that complicates all of this. If I'm right about goof, then supagoof banes me, and now scum has no good options. Killing one of our six narrows the pool. killing blade/rogan is either impossible or outs meta. killing taff gets rid of the person who wins them the endgame cointosses. killing AV kills supagoof, which narrows the pool. supagoof being town (as I'm about 90% sure he is) shifts all of these possibilities ever-so-slightly more in town's favor than they already are.
Also, if your clearing supagoof, you need to consider that Elena has no reason to clear goof if goof really is Town, unless Elena is also town. So if you have Goof in your kill last brakcet, Elena might need to be there instead of snow, but that's just my opinion.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-24, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Living Players
- AvatarVecna
- Snowblaze
- Batcathat
- SupaGoof
- Taffimai
- Moonfly7
- BladeScape
- Elenna
- Metastachydium
- Rogan
AV, Rogan, Blades, Taffy - mech cleared or as close as possible
Elenna is tied to Goof. Don't kill both.
Meta has a kill to show his alignment.
Moon has creepy / evil fluff, but can still be Town. She can also hand out gifts. Don't kill her before the night.
Bat and Snow would need to claim something to be not suspected.
So, if Elenna is Town, Goof seems to be Town as well. Goof can use his claimed bane/kill power in towns favor. This would be in favor of lynching Elenna, even if she is not the top suspect. Town!Elenna would also paint a bad light on Snow, for the Quote gac managed to provide. Wolf!Elenna would be a Wolf so a good target in any case.
Meta... should not shoot anyone protected, no matter the alignment. Can you shoot and protect in the same night?
Also, blades is immune to kills, right? Who else?
Moon can gift either Bane or Block. She can also be killed after giving her power away, which would be not nice, but could be helpful.
Assuming Elenna dies today and flips town:
Meta shots Snow.
Goof protects AV.
Moon gifts a power to Rogan
Rogan is useless. Might try another prophecy, if someone has a nice question or statement.
Blades kills Batcathat
Snow does???
Bat does???
Mafia kills Rogan or Moon?
Worst case, Meta and Snow or Moon are scum.
Goof dies to the mafia (not triggering the beast power and removing a protective power for the next night.
Blades dies to the Mafia, removing a kill power for the next night.
BatCatHat dies.
Next day, it's AV, Rogan, Moon, Taff vs Snow and Meta or AV, Rogan, Snow, Taff vs Meta and Moon.
Kill Meta during the day.
In the night, it's Snow vs AV, Rogan, Moon, Taff.
Snow kills AV or Rogan.
OR
In the night, it's Moon vs AV, Rogan, Snow, Taff.
Moon kills AV or Rogan.
Next day, it's (AV or Rogan), Taff, Moon, Snow.
2 town, 1 survivor, 1 scum. But it's hard to tell which one of Snow or Moon is Scum...
Sooo... Would another plan help preventing this situation?Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Nice counterpoints! But in the end they don't matter because I'm for the plan anyways. Rogan, Meta, if you two wouldn't mind endorsing the strategy here and dropping your votes on Elena, we can get this game solved by day 4 at the latest, possibly 5 if way to many roles get blocked. Either way I fear I will only be with you all for a short time regardless. So an important question: Do you want my roleblock or my Bane dropped on night 3?
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Um....bro? I'm a dude. Not that you would know, so not your fault. I should probably add the male symbol to my profile but I keep forgetting that's a thing you can put down.
Also yes, my gifted powers specifically work even if your regular abilities say only one power a night. Which is why handing the kill one to a Mafia member on accident would be very, very bad. 2 kills for mafia that night.
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Oh also only my kill ability is creepy and evil sounding. Everything else isn't.
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2021-10-24, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Okay yeah I think AV's plan only fails if Snow is wolf, in which case kudos for good bussing, Snow.
@AV, I'm curious, when I flip town, will you rethink Snow's towniness based on the RAC quote? Or will you just assume that quote was wrong?
I don't really remember The Thing, but I skim-read it and I think that did happen, yes - after being converted to a Thing I asked the narrator to confirm whether or not the auto-lynched player was a Thing since the narration wasn't completely clear about it, and obviously I knew they weren't.I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-24, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Hmmm... I think, the block might be better.
Block someone and there is a kill? The person blocked was not the killer. Block someone and there is no kill? The person blocked is more likely to be the killer.
Elenna I'm afraid, you need to die today.
So, please claim your actions before EoD, so we can take them into consideration as well.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2021-10-24, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-24, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Although speaking completely honestly, killing me is not the best use of our resources from my point of view, but only because I know I'm innocent. If you could take me at face value(which you can't sadly, no mech clear) you would have Blade and Meta NK one of either Supagoof, Snowblaze, or Batcathat, after we Lynch Elena. If they both went off that would leave us with either a won game, or one last person to lynch, the one we didn't choose.
Sadly we won't be doing the most efficient plan because there isn't a mechanical clear on me, so it's mostly just conjecture.
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2021-10-24, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Arrrr... sorry Moon. I am horrible about using the right pronouns... I start to see the appeal of using they in all cases.
Also, since I am only online on mobile, I would not see the gender symbol that often. I switch to the normal view from time to time, but usually that's for using a specific function that's unavailable in Mobil mode.
Oh, right. The quote. I tend to think it is valid, so I would go after Snow.
Oh and thanks about the answer about The Thing. At least, I didn't imagine this one.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2021-10-24, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Also I may as well claim, even if you don't lynch me I'm going to be NK'd, and for my power not claiming only helps town if I survive to tomorrow.
I'm a combination Seer/Tracker.
Role description (fluff redacted but all the mechanical stuff is here):
Originally Posted by Unavenger
Originally Posted by me, in my QT, during N1
Unsurprisingly, bladescape scried as town. Also, nobody targeted him N1.
N2 I scried Rogan. I figured if he was wolf, obviously he'd be a good target, and if he was town, I'd see anyone who killed or roleblocked him. Obviously this didn't work out as well as I thought, Rogan scried as town and only Supa targeted them.
Rogan, this should answer your question from earlier - I targeted you, not Goof.
The whole "wolf!Rogan wouldn't let AV copy his power" thing, while true, was mostly an excuse for me to stop accusing Rogan since I'd scried him as town.
So, like I said, not super useful. I just wanted to claim to avoid town wasting a bunch of time/discussion trying to figure out who I scried.I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-24, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
CONFIRMATION(emphasis, not a power use): Metas night kill will show their color text, not mine!
Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-24 at 09:20 PM.
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2021-10-24, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-24 at 09:24 PM.
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2021-10-24, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Oh yeah also, from my POV you're better off lynching someone else and NKing me as I don't have a bane, but obviously you can't trust me on that. I'm fine with being lynched today. (I mean, obviously I'd rather get another scry, but even if I did scry someone as wolf you wouldn't be able to trust that so you'd probably have to kill me first and then the other person and it seems faster to just go with AV's plan.)
Incidentally, The Thing was only 8 pages. We're almost at the same number of pages on the second thread of this game.
Granted, The Thing only had 11 players one of whom was inactive, but still.I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-24, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2021-10-24, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Slight nitpick: technically my action doesn't clear Goof, since wolf!Goof could have targeted Rogan for other reasons related to his actual power. Or wolf!Goof could have targeted Rogan in case there was a tracker.
I mean, I'm pretty sure Goof is town now. But I wasn't nearly as sure before AV mentioned the QT Goof sent.I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-24, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Hmmm... While this is a good claim, it could be a lie.
I still wonder if we should keep you alive for one more day?
If you survive the night, you will have an interesting scry result, either clearing someone or dooming. Unfortunately, we won't know if we can trust you, but we could kill you then.
If town, your scry will help. If wolf you are dead.
It will shift our problem, unless the wolves handle this problem for us.
I think I believe you, but I would like AV to play the numbers game before I make an decision.
I am tired enough to fear mistakes...
(Which means, I should put my phone down and close my eyes...)Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-10-24, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- Ithilien
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
For clarification, I haven't actually done the math on whether it's worth it for y'all to leave me alive for another day so I can give another scry result before I die. But my instincts say it's not worth it unless Snow is wolf. And even then I'm not sure if town could kill both me and Snow fast enough, since you would presumably want to kill me first.
I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!
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2021-10-25, 02:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I see I’m back on the suspect list. Honestly it’s fair atp with so few possible wolf candidates.
Fortunately I have a power that lets me confirm my alignment - thing is, it also reveals my role name which is going to lead to me being screwed over by whatever’s behind the “don’t reveal your role name” thing, hence why I didn’t use it earlier.
So I’ll use that tonight. It’s fast priority so I can’t be roleblocked. If you don’t have explicit confirmation by start of day four, I’ll self-vote and you can kill me.
Anyway, I support AV’s plan. Let’s kill Elenna.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2021-10-25, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
FWIW, my plan should work regardless of which of the four/six we kill. Additionally, the more people it's possible to check, the quicker we can get through that list. For example, if Snowblaze can reveal herself as town, we don't wanna kill Snowblaze. And if Elenna is a seer, we probably don't wanna target her for the lynch today either. Supagoof is maybe a baner who can take away scum's only kill option that doesn't help us, and meta's kill can get a double-confirm if meta is town. That leaves moonfly (who can give powers, but not tonight, only tomorrow night when game might be over anyway), and BCH (who AFAIK hasn't made a power claim at all). With elenna claiming, I'd be fine moving to BCH if people are really that sure Elenna is town.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
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My Homebrew
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2021-10-25, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2021-10-25, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Yeah. The plan is more about showing that with the kills available to us, we can brute-force this ending (sorta, the worst-case scenarios where we take forever to find scum are a lil iffy). But the more people we can check without killing them, the easier this gets for us.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-25, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Fair enough. At this point I doubt it'll negatively impact neither our chances of winning nor my personal chances of surviving (it might make the wolves a little more likely to target me at night but right now I'm probably more likely to get killed by town).
Batcathat, you are (CENSORED), a GUNSMITH, MOTION DETECTOR and member of the TOWN. You win the game if you kill every hostile character or nothing can prevent this from happening, and at least one member of your team is still alive.
You have ONE ability:
(CENSORED) (Investigation Priority): Once per NIGHT, choose a living player. If it is an ODD NIGHT, you are told whether this player has a killing ability. If it is an EVEN NIGHT, you are told (CENSORED) if they used an ability that night OR the preceding day or both, "(CENSORED)if they were the target of an ability in that time, "Neither" if neither and "Both" if both.
I'd be happy to take requests for who I should target tonight (and learn if they have a kill power), even if I suspect my answer won't be trusted until I'm checked out myself.
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2021-10-25, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Yeah, a motion detector...I'm having difficulty getting much use out of that one right now. A seer, sure, but...let's say you target goof tonight. You learn if he was targeted tonight/last night by anybody else, and if he targeted anybody tonight/last night. I'm...unsure how this information could be used to clear or catch anybody right now, or at least anybody that we don't already have a better method for doing the same. We're running out of good lynch choices.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2021-10-25, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
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2021-10-25, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew