A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    1) Elenna, if honest, can determine one alignment via scry.

    2) Meta, if honest, can determine two alignments via a kill.

    3) bladescape can determine one alignment via a kill.

    4) Snow, if honest, can determine one alignment via an unclarified power.

    5) Supagoof, if honest, can provide a bane tonight.

    6) There are two or three liars.

    7) The people we need to check are Elenna, Meta, Snow, Goof, moon, and BCH.




    Based on the above facts, we shouldn't lynch Elenna, Meta, Snow, or Goof. Goof provides a bane, and the other three provide info during the night. Thus, moon or BCH should be lynched, and the other should be NK'd.

    Elenna provides a scry D4 unless dead. Meta and Snow will self-reveal at the start of D4 via night powers. Thus, Elenna, Meta, and Snow should not be NK'd. This leaves moon or BCH (whichever one wasn't lynched) and Supagoof. Since BCH's power (if honest) is another that provides EoN feedback, whereas moon gives a power regardless of if they survive the night, BCH should be lynched and moon should be NK'd. Moon and goof will still be able to use their powers N3 to help town, but will also get checked via kills.

    Lynch: Batcathat
    Night Kills (for bladescape/meta): moonfly7 and Supagoof

    - - - Updated - - -

    Additionally, if enough people are convinced that there's no way we have three wolves left, we can remove moon from the list of kill targets, and...idk, maybe blade just doesn't kill somebody tonight? On the one hand, blade is guaranteed town. On the other hand, meta getting a kill reveals two alignments instead of one. Decisions decisions...
    Here's my problem with this: I am innocent, so I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that one of our Clear abilities is lying. It's eerliy convenient that everyone has a clear now that it would keep them alive to have one. So, if you can Town clear me without my death, then you need to keep me alive and shoot into the horde, because you can't trust a single one of those Scry's, but you will be able to check off names if you have an extra kill AND can mech clear me without my death.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    For moon to be scum, meta and snow must be scum. For meta to be scum, BCH must be scum. Even those of you who think "there's maybe three scum left?", surely you don't think four remaining mafia is possible?
    This logic, is 1, sound and 2, provides an interesting Case so I'll ask this right now:

    Do you think that we started this game with 5 Wolves?

    If your answer is no, you do not, then you have to clear me. Because as AV said, the only way I'm scum is if both of my gifted are Scum, which makes a 4th person still alive scum, making 5 total. But if you believe whole heartedly their aren't 5 scum, then I can't be, because I would've given at least 1 towny an ability that could ruin a Mafia game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If I recall it correctly (but I am not sure about this, so please speak up if I don't) Elenna mentioned the RAC quote from Cao/gac a few times, while Snow mostly ignored it. This quote would fit Elenna or Snow. If Elenna is scum, good. If Elenna is not scum, Snow is more suspicious than before, so we could consider killing her in the night.
    Also, if Elenna is town, I am 100% cleared instead of 99% clear. And Goof is more likely to be town or a very bold scum or slightly less bold, but scum and lying about his ability.

    So, lynching Elenna will make one person more suspicious, remove the last bit of doubt on me and make another player less suspicious.
    Or she is a wolf. That's win/win.
    It's also hard to trust her scry, even if we get an result, unless we get additional Intel on that matter.



    I understand your motivation, but you should know I was criticized for using the same logic before. And my power had a greater scope than yours (and it turned out to be false...), so I had more reason to avoid drawing scums attention.
    So, I can understand you a bit, but I can't town read you for this.
    On the other hand, your power can be useful like a scry right now, since everyone who has a kill power should have mentioned it by now. So if you find a gun where there should be none, you are either lying or they were.

    But your position is weak on its own. You had 2.5 days and 2 nights to put your power and your brain to work, but there was not much participation from your side. I think, in LL you were more active. Your reads might have been flip floppy there, but you gave pros and cons. Right now, I don't see much of it.
    I admit LL was slower and had less people with less posts. And I admit your confidence could be shaken so you avoid reads now. You are not forced to be scum, but you are not looking very townie either.

    Please give me a read list on all active players. Nothing too detailed, but try to give a lean for everyone, with at least one argument. New arguments are welcome, but since the discussion is going on for some time, it's hard to not repeat things.



    I think the power was protect someone. If they are attacked, the attacker and the protector (good goof) will die. It won't kill you unless goof is protecting himself.



    It could be forced by the mech. (Not being allowed to share with the team). This way, it can still be used to help town hunt the killer and gain town cred, but it could always have a risk. Like the permanent protection, which could accidently make scum immune.
    It could also have a hidden drawback, but I am not sure if this would be allowed? Unavenger if someone had a power to gift power usages to other players, would the "not lying about the effect of your abilities" rule apply to the new temporary power?

    There is also another thing to consider. Snow had her POE out in public and it was very wrong. Giving her a scry would be much less dangerous than it seems, but it would give town cred.

    I think, that's everything I can come up with.



    It would be interesting to see what goof thinks about this.
    If I was Mafia and forced to hand out powers to town, i would've gievn my telegram day one, and then my bane and Block, never the two abilities that can check someone and perhaps out one of my supposed wolf teammates. Instead I gave us the 2 most useful wolf finding tools first.

    And, to show that I'm committed to reducing the number of incorrect kills we make to raise our chances of winning, and not trying to save my own skin, I am willing to, right now, post my complete role QT unredacted. Even if it will almost certainly get me killed tonight, it saves us wasting one of our nightkills on an innocent, and streamlines the plan. If seeing everything will turn even a single head to the more efficient plan, I'm willing to post my whole QT unredacted and unedited.
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-25 at 10:05 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I think the power was protect someone. If they are attacked, the attacker and the protector (good goof) will die. It won't kill you unless goof is protecting himself.
    Which is a distinct possibility. I'd feel more comfortable with Bladescape killing the Goof. Snow is right. He is in no danger of dying whatsoever.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Which is a distinct possibility. I'd feel more comfortable with Bladescape killing the Goof. Snow is right. He is in no danger of dying whatsoever.
    Kind of convenient that you forgot that when it's your own power which you claimed to have given him meta, that is ridiculously suspicious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In fact, fearing Goofs beast at all is weird if you truly belived that he was perma immune like you said he was. If your powers are real, you would have led with the "There's no way to night Kill goof, I immuned him" argument first. But you didn't, even though that argument would have been much better than the beast one.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Kind of convenient that you forgot that when it's your own power which you claimed to have given him meta, that is ridiculously suspicious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In fact, fearing Goofs beast at all is weird if you truly belived that he was perma immune like you said he was. If your powers are real, you would have led with the "There's no way to night Kill goof, I immuned him" argument first. But you didn't, even though that argument would have been much better than the beast one.
    What? By he I was referring to Bladescape, not the Goof. And I've already hinted at Bladescape being under my protection last night (when I said it is impossible for him to die).

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Please give me a read list on all active players. Nothing too detailed, but try to give a lean for everyone, with at least one argument. New arguments are welcome, but since the discussion is going on for some time, it's hard to not repeat things.
    Sure, here you go. I'm not sure I quite live up to the requests for arguments but I really need to start cooking dinner. I'll try to add to it if I have time (but don't expect any great leaps of deduction).

    AvatarVecna: Strong town lean. I wouldn't completely rule out AV playing us all in some way I don't grasp (that's pretty much what happened last game) but it really doesn't seem likely.
    Snowblaze: Town lean. Will be either confirmed town or pretty much confirmed wolf (if her claim doesn't deliver) by D4.
    Batcathat: Too handsome, loveable and charming to kill. Right?
    SupaGoof: Leaning wolf. Mostly gut feeling (more details in my earlier ISO) and a lack of other options.
    Taffimai: Neutral.
    Moonfly7: Town lean. I could see a wolf giving away power to town in order to look good, but doing it twice seems very unlikely.
    BladeScape: Town.
    Elenna: Leaning wolf. Also mostly gut feeling and a lack of options, but if that cruise quote wasn't a trick, she seems the most likely source.
    Metastachydium: Town (or at least previously without kill power, which I guess rules out wolf?)
    Rogan: Strong town lean, for similar reasons to AV.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    What? By he I was referring to Bladescape, not the Goof. And I've already hinted at Bladescape being under my protection last night (when I said it is impossible for him to die).
    Oh, well, darn my butterfingers. My mistake then Meta, the tinfoil hat might be on a tad to tight. I still think my kill gift to you was smart but honestly at this point I'm questioning every detail the closer we get to end game.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Oh, well, darn my butterfingers. My mistake then Meta, the tinfoil hat might be on a tad to tight. I still think my kill gift to you was smart but honestly at this point I'm questioning every detail the closer we get to end game.
    No problem. Everyone's seeing dogs much everywhere right now.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    So I really want answer before end of day though, does everyone need me to post my entire QT uncensored to prove that I'm a waste of a night kill? Once again, I'm only doing this to help us have a better chance of catching wolves, I fully expect to be killed for a full role reveal tonight. But thats going to clear one more person and that is all that matters. Taking myself out of the equation opens up options for Lynching BatCatHat today, and then Ganking Elena and Goof tonight. Then Lynching Snowblaze and/or meta if they don't confirm town. Although, if we kill BCH and he's town, that basically confirms Meta as Town because of Meta lacking a kill ability until i gave him one.
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-25 at 10:21 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    1) Elenna, if honest, can determine one alignment via scry.

    2) Meta, if honest, can determine two alignments via a kill.

    3) bladescape can determine one alignment via a kill.

    4) Snow, if honest, can determine one alignment via an unclarified power.

    5) Supagoof, if honest, can provide a bane tonight.

    6) There are two or three liars.

    7) The people we need to check are Elenna, Meta, Snow, Goof, moon, and BCH.




    Based on the above facts, we shouldn't lynch Elenna, Meta, Snow, or Goof. Goof provides a bane, and the other three provide info during the night. Thus, moon or BCH should be lynched, and the other should be NK'd.

    Elenna provides a scry D4 unless dead. Meta and Snow will self-reveal at the start of D4 via night powers. Thus, Elenna, Meta, and Snow should not be NK'd. This leaves moon or BCH (whichever one wasn't lynched) and Supagoof. Since BCH's power (if honest) is another that provides EoN feedback, whereas moon gives a power regardless of if they survive the night, BCH should be lynched and moon should be NK'd. Moon and goof will still be able to use their powers N3 to help town, but will also get checked via kills.

    Lynch: Batcathat
    Night Kills (for bladescape/meta): moonfly7 and Supagoof

    - - - Updated - - -

    Additionally, if enough people are convinced that there's no way we have three wolves left, we can remove moon from the list of kill targets, and...idk, maybe blade just doesn't kill somebody tonight? On the one hand, blade is guaranteed town. On the other hand, meta getting a kill reveals two alignments instead of one. Decisions decisions...
    Elenna seems to be too powerful to be real. But if she is, she also has a watcher power (see who targeted her target) and can give Intel even if her target dies. So high risk, high reward? She is also tied to me and goof, as well as Snow. Killing her now to go into the night with more info seems helpful, even if she isn't scum.

    Meta is a mixed bag. If scum, he can probably kill two people, including blades, our vig.
    Still, unless he admit to being scum, his power is to useful to lose?

    Snow can provide her own alignment if she is telling the truth. She might also die for doing so, if scum has a power that works on Concept names. So relying on this is dangerous?

    Goof is too useful to lynch. His power can force scum to make suboptimal kill choices. It might even kill scum.

    So, from the list of not lynch targets, I disagree a bit about Elenna. But I'm not married to the idea of killing her either. The problem with her scry is, we can't know if we can trust her until she dies. Even if she gives us a correct target, it could be another bus. Delays in killing her for being useful could be very dangerous if she is scum.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'd be willing to have Elenna be our second NK instead of nobody, although it feels wrong to deliberately NK a seer claimant when there's not really a counterclaim.
    In this setup, there can't really be counter claims. We know there is some overlap between powers, but some differences as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I'm not 100% convinced we don't have three wolves left. There's a lot of kills, sure, but there also seem to be several immunities and banes. Certainly we haven't had a ton of deaths each night, despite the number of kill powers.

    That being said, one option could be to have blade and meta target the same person? Might help if wolves have a roleblock. In any case it seems better than having one of them do nothing.

    If Meta doesn't kill and blade is roleblocked, do we still win? I'm looking at some unlikely possibilities because the wolves not surrendering yet is making me paranoid.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Incidentally, I could see Bat/Goof/Meta as the three remaining wolves.

    @bat want to share why you're townreading Meta?

    @Snow just checking, will you be confirmed town immediately when you use your power, or at EoN?

    - - - Updated - - -

    To clarify, I still lean town on Goof, but I also think a Bat/Goof/Meta team is not impossible and might explain why wolves haven't surrendered, since Goof is being town-read.
    Most kill powers we know about had some limit. Fext could not kill n1. Xihirli could not kill n1. AV can only kill under some special circumstances. Book needed to turn into Mr Hyde for his kill to work. Taff was limited in her options as well. So not seeing many kills doesn't need to continue.

    Now, looking for only 3 wolves when there were 4 is dangerous. And Book was only half a killer. Starting with 4.5 hostile in an 16 player game doesn't seem to be impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Just catching up and cherry picking the posts along the way that I found....curious, from my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    And if that's the case then the remaining wolf (or wolves) must be in Meta/AV/Rogan/Supagoof of which I have by far the weakest reasons to townread Supagoof.
    Not sure how this list had Meta added to it, as the night before is was Rogan/AV/Gac/Book/Goof - subtle shade, to hide in the shadows? I mean, Snow keeps getting cleared cause of Bus, but maybe that's the plan from the start? I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    I'm still leaning towards Elenna and Goof as the wolves. My gut is leaning towards the latter and my brain towards the former. Not sure which body part I should trust with my vote.
    Casting shade, for no factual reasons. Again, curious as to why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    No, if I target Goof tonight I'll learn if he has a kill power or not, since it's an odd night.
    I'm curious if my beast power counts as a kill power. It's not a directed power to kill, it's a "If you touch this protected person, you will die!" type of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Again, if I kill the Goof I'll definitely be cleared (unless of course he lies about his powers) because I'll be dead. Supagoof has a beast class power.
    Yes. I have the one power. I can only target people with protection. Attacking said people activates my beast power. If I protect myself, and you kill me, you'll die too. That's -2 town, which is a bad plan IMO.

    Scum would love to see me lynched at this point. The lynch is the only safe way they could remove me from the game (unless I be role-blocked, is possible). Because this seems to be such a (IMHO) simple logic. As such, I'm sceptical of any plan involving a lynching or killing of me by town. Which sounds like a scum logic, but it's definitely a town!Goof logic as I likely have them supa worried about how to get rid of me.

    BatCatHat to get my point in, and I just feel his words want to remove me from the game with a lynch, and because of the reason above, that's the why for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And as I was writing all that up, Rogan posted....again. Rogan, is part of your role to have like.....the maximum number of posts?

    But yes, I keep the wolves guessing and making bad choices, unless they had a way to know who I was targeting.....hmmm.

    Speaking of which. Thank you Elenna for the confirmation on that I did target Rogan last night. I did, can confirm this two ways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And by two ways I mean
    1. Elenna's post stating she saw me target Rogan
    2. My last post, stating I did in fact, target Rogan.

    But that doesn't clear Elenna.

    My suspicions are growing for Meta and Moon - their back forth is definitely making me wonder which of them might be scum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    See this but also my own idea. .
    Just going back to double check conversations....and I find this??? I had no idea this existed!!! *goes to read through it*
    Spoiler
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    Legionary of Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Just catching up and cherry picking the posts along the way that I found....curious, from my point of view.

    Not sure how this list had Meta added to it, as the night before is was Rogan/AV/Gac/Book/Goof - subtle shade, to hide in the shadows? I mean, Snow keeps getting cleared cause of Bus, but maybe that's the plan from the start? I don't know.

    Casting shade, for no factual reasons. Again, curious as to why.

    I'm curious if my beast power counts as a kill power. It's not a directed power to kill, it's a "If you touch this protected person, you will die!" type of thing.

    Yes. I have the one power. I can only target people with protection. Attacking said people activates my beast power. If I protect myself, and you kill me, you'll die too. That's -2 town, which is a bad plan IMO.

    Scum would love to see me lynched at this point. The lynch is the only safe way they could remove me from the game (unless I be role-blocked, is possible). Because this seems to be such a (IMHO) simple logic. As such, I'm sceptical of any plan involving a lynching or killing of me by town. Which sounds like a scum logic, but it's definitely a town!Goof logic as I likely have them supa worried about how to get rid of me.

    BatCatHat to get my point in, and I just feel his words want to remove me from the game with a lynch, and because of the reason above, that's the why for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And as I was writing all that up, Rogan posted....again. Rogan, is part of your role to have like.....the maximum number of posts?

    But yes, I keep the wolves guessing and making bad choices, unless they had a way to know who I was targeting.....hmmm.

    Speaking of which. Thank you Elenna for the confirmation on that I did target Rogan last night. I did, can confirm this two ways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And by two ways I mean
    1. Elenna's post stating she saw me target Rogan
    2. My last post, stating I did in fact, target Rogan.

    But that doesn't clear Elenna.

    My suspicions are growing for Meta and Moon - their back forth is definitely making me wonder which of them might be scum.
    You may have missed the miles of posts where AV has questioned meta repeatedly on a couple different things, with others chiming in as well. As I understand it Meta has been on the chopping block around since Day 3 started. I'm not really sure on Meta, and I still like to hope my Kill Gift was given to a towny, but he is on the suspect list. But so is everyone not Mech cleared.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Do you think that we started this game with 5 Wolves?

    If I was Mafia and forced to hand out powers to town, i would've gievn my telegram day one, and then my bane and Block, never the two abilities that can check someone and perhaps out one of my supposed wolf teammates. Instead I gave us the 2 most useful wolf finding tools first.

    I'm willing to post my whole QT unredacted and unedited.
    No. This is something I am very sure about since day 1. 5 wolves would be too much.

    Giving the telegram first would be NAI. It's not that useful, but it would not hurt as much if scum got it.
    Handing out the scry could be a very good move for scum. Snow gave her reads in the night. She was unlikely to check someone else. This means, the risk of hitting scum was low, while the reward in town cred was high.
    The kill is a good argument. Giving something else away would be safer. But you might have thought you needed every kill you could get or every town cred possible.

    If you want to post the link to the QT, that's forbidden, as far as I know. Showing the full role description would help scum more, I think. So no, don't post unless someone has very strong arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Sure, here you go. I'm not sure I quite live up to the requests for arguments but I really need to start cooking dinner. I'll try to add to it if I have time (but don't expect any great leaps of deduction).

    AvatarVecna: Strong town lean. I wouldn't completely rule out AV playing us all in some way I don't grasp (that's pretty much what happened last game) but it really doesn't seem likely.
    Snowblaze: Town lean. Will be either confirmed town or pretty much confirmed wolf (if her claim doesn't deliver) by D4.
    Batcathat: Too handsome, loveable and charming to kill. Right?
    SupaGoof: Leaning wolf. Mostly gut feeling (more details in my earlier ISO) and a lack of other options.
    Taffimai: Neutral.
    Moonfly7: Town lean. I could see a wolf giving away power to town in order to look good, but doing it twice seems very unlikely.
    BladeScape: Town.
    Elenna: Leaning wolf. Also mostly gut feeling and a lack of options, but if that cruise quote wasn't a trick, she seems the most likely source.
    Metastachydium: Town (or at least previously without kill power, which I guess rules out wolf?)
    Rogan: Strong town lean, for similar reasons to AV.
    Hmmm... from a practical standpoint, you might flip wolf by proxy, since we will learn Metas alignment one way or the other.
    So, you don't need to die just yet.

    On the other hand, flipping you now could help us with judging Meta. Unfortunately, I don't think we could stop Meta in the night, even if we wanted to.

    Soo... no lynch target?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Kind of convenient that you forgot that when it's your own power which you claimed to have given him meta, that is ridiculously suspicious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In fact, fearing Goofs beast at all is weird if you truly belived that he was perma immune like you said he was. If your powers are real, you would have led with the "There's no way to night Kill goof, I immuned him" argument first. But you didn't, even though that argument would have been much better than the beast one.
    This argument was based on an easy to prove misunderstanding. So it feels like something town would do more than something scum would try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    No. This is something I am very sure about since day 1. 5 wolves would be too much.

    Giving the telegram first would be NAI. It's not that useful, but it would not hurt as much if scum got it.
    Handing out the scry could be a very good move for scum. Snow gave her reads in the night. She was unlikely to check someone else. This means, the risk of hitting scum was low, while the reward in town cred was high.
    The kill is a good argument. Giving something else away would be safer. But you might have thought you needed every kill you could get or every town cred possible.

    If you want to post the link to the QT, that's forbidden, as far as I know. Showing the full role description would help scum more, I think. So no, don't post unless someone has very strong arguments.



    Hmmm... from a practical standpoint, you might flip wolf by proxy, since we will learn Metas alignment one way or the other.
    So, you don't need to die just yet.

    On the other hand, flipping you now could help us with judging Meta. Unfortunately, I don't think we could stop Meta in the night, even if we wanted to.

    Soo... no lynch target?



    This argument was based on an easy to prove misunderstanding. So it feels like something town would do more than something scum would try.
    I didn't mean post the link, I was just going to literally copy and paste the entiee QT unredacted.

    And I will literally do it if it will save one of our NK's for someone whose actually guilty, or has a chance to be. I'm fine with dying, but I hate to think my death would be a waste of a kill if I can find any other way to hard clear myself. And as we've stated, me dying hurts town very little, as I can still pop off my ability before I go. Thing is, Night Killing me since I'm innocent does hurt us, if only because it could have been used to check someone else. Chances are good wolves might get a free Gank if I give out my role name and concept, sure, but as AV has said, I'm the most expendable anyways. If I go out saving us the use of a nighkill to check someones else, fine by me. Because I'm the least important role, and I can still be useful as I die.
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-25 at 11:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Just catching up and cherry picking the posts along the way that I found....curious, from my point of view.

    Scum would love to see me lynched at this point. The lynch is the only safe way they could remove me from the game (unless I be role-blocked, is possible). Because this seems to be such a (IMHO) simple logic. As such, I'm sceptical of any plan involving a lynching or killing of me by town. Which sounds like a scum logic, but it's definitely a town!Goof logic as I likely have them supa worried about how to get rid of me.

    BatCatHat to get my point in, and I just feel his words want to remove me from the game with a lynch, and because of the reason above, that's the why for me.

    And as I was writing all that up, Rogan posted....again. Rogan, is part of your role to have like.....the maximum number of posts?

    But yes, I keep the wolves guessing and making bad choices, unless they had a way to know who I was targeting.....hmmm.

    Speaking of which. Thank you Elenna for the confirmation on that I did target Rogan last night. I did, can confirm this two ways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And by two ways I mean
    1. Elenna's post stating she saw me target Rogan
    2. My last post, stating I did in fact, target Rogan.

    But that doesn't clear Elenna.

    My suspicions are growing for Meta and Moon - their back forth is definitely making me wonder which of them might be scum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just going back to double check conversations....and I find this??? I had no idea this existed!!! *goes to read through it*
    Welcome to the chaos, Goof! Please take a tinfoil hat.

    I Agree that lynching you (Goof) is a very bad idea. Your power is extremely useful. And, as long as you agree to it and there is the need for it, we can check you at night with a kill. You protect someone else, blades kills you. Blades won't trigger your power (unless you are lying) and we can be sure you are town and be reasonably sure your target was protcted.

    No, I'm just taking a lot on principle. I want to give you all a chance to check and correct my line of thoughts at this moment. On my own, I was wrong a bit to often...

    I'd rather kill Elenna than you, since we can't trust her scrys unless she flips and flips town. Even if she points us at scum, it could be another bus. And there would need to be a bus at this point.

    A fair word of warning regarding the linked role list, we can't be sure everything works as described there. But it is a nice resource to see what kind of powers are in use from time to time.

    Argument for killing Elenna: Info about RAC, trusting her scry (which won't help that much right now, but every bit helps).
    Argument for killing Bat: Info about Taff (not very relevant, since we can't act on it).

    Is there anybody else we could realistically lynch without losing important options in the night?

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Moon

    I don't think posting your QT content will help a lot. It would be hard for you to fake it, especially if it's long, but not impossible.

    But that's true for lots of things about you. Hard to fake for scum, but possible. I don't really suspect you, but I can't clear you 100%.

    So you are not a good target for a night kill, but not a terrible one for practical reasons. If we have better targets, go for them. But otherwise, knowing your alignment for sure seems better than wasting a kill.
    Last edited by Rogan; 2021-10-25 at 11:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Welcome to the chaos, Goof! Please take a tinfoil hat.

    I Agree that lynching you (Goof) is a very bad idea. Your power is extremely useful. And, as long as you agree to it and there is the need for it, we can check you at night with a kill. You protect someone else, blades kills you. Blades won't trigger your power (unless you are lying) and we can be sure you are town and be reasonably sure your target was protcted.

    No, I'm just taking a lot on principle. I want to give you all a chance to check and correct my line of thoughts at this moment. On my own, I was wrong a bit to often...

    I'd rather kill Elenna than you, since we can't trust her scrys unless she flips and flips town. Even if she points us at scum, it could be another bus. And there would need to be a bus at this point.

    A fair word of warning regarding the linked role list, we can't be sure everything works as described there. But it is a nice resource to see what kind of powers are in use from time to time.

    Argument for killing Elenna: Info about RAC, trusting her scry (which won't help that much right now, but every bit helps).
    Argument for killing Bat: Info about Taff (not very relevant, since we can't act on it).

    Is there anybody else we could realistically lynch without losing important options in the night?

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Moon

    I don't think posting your QT content will help a lot. It would be hard for you to fake it, especially if it's long, but not impossible.

    But that's true for lots of things about you. Hard to fake for scum, but possible. I don't really suspect you, but I can't clear you 100%.

    So you are not a good target for a night kill, but not a terrible one for practical reasons. If we have better targets, go for them. But otherwise, knowing your alignment for sure seems better than wasting a kill.
    Fair enough. And from your knowledge base I am still an unknown. Although I will be cleared if either snow or Meta flips town tomorrow, depending on your opinion on my gift actions.

    But yeah, killing me still answers a question for you guys. It just sucks from my point of view, not because I'm gonna die, but because I know you'd be better off killing someone else because I don't have to question my own innocence. But I'm a realist, you guys DO still have to question me. So if you need to wack me, it is still a decent call.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Spoiler: Vote history
    Show
    Code:
    Meta			Supagoof (1)
    Taffimai		Taffimai (1)
    AV			Elenna (1)
    Rogan			Wombat (1)
    Moonfly 		Wombat (2)
    Elenna			Meta (1)
    Snow			Wombat (3)
    Blade 			Wombat (4)
    BatCat			Wombat (5)
    Elenna			BatCat (1)	Meta (0)
    Meta			BatCat (2)	Supagoof (0)
    Rogan			BatCat (3) 	Dead Wombat (4)
    Moonfly 		-Supagoof- (1) Dead Wombat (3)
    Moonfly			-Elenna- (2) 	Supagoof (0)
    Rogan			Elenna (3)	BatCat (2)
    Snow			Elenna (4)	Dead Wombat (2)
    BatCat			Elenna (5)	Dead Wombat (1)
    AV			BatCat (3)	Elenna (4)
    Snow			BatCat (4)	Elenna (3)
    Moonfly			BatCat (5)	Elenna (2)
    Supagoof		BatCat (6)	No previous vote or I missed it


    If anyone -struck through- their vote after I started reading, I may have missed it. I'm not vouching for this to be accurate, but I have to go shop. Only one still kicking a dead Wombat is Bladescape.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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    Hi Gac! Sorry for lynching you :(

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Unless the scumteam is moon/snow/meta/BCH, moon 100% gifted powers to at least one townie. And while some powers could be useful in a "causing mind screwage" kinda way, that potential "can i trust moon" energy is insignificant next to the power of giving a scumbuddy an extra kill or roleblock. Moon can't be lying about his power on the general points, because then snow or meta would know they're lying. And that means moon can gift powers that don't require you to give up the use of your normal power. Why would a scum!moon ever give a power to a townie instead of a scumbuddy? It boggles the mind that anybody is considering Moon as a possible scum at this point.

    When you get a role that hands out powers as wolf, always always always give them to a scumbuddy. Give them to town? What, are you throwing???


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Unless the scumteam is moon/snow/meta/BCH, moon 100% gifted powers to at least one townie. And while some powers could be useful in a "causing mind screwage" kinda way, that potential "can i trust moon" energy is insignificant next to the power of giving a scumbuddy an extra kill or roleblock. Moon can't be lying about his power on the general points, because then snow or meta would know they're lying. And that means moon can gift powers that don't require you to give up the use of your normal power. Why would a scum!moon ever give a power to a townie instead of a scumbuddy? It boggles the mind that anybody is considering Moon as a possible scum at this point.

    When you get a role that hands out powers as wolf, always always always give them to a scumbuddy. Give them to town? What, are you throwing???
    This is why my principle defence has always been "if I'm a wolf I would have to be a complete idiot." Because only an utter moron would hand out the abilities I did to the people I did.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    This is why my principle defence has always been "if I'm a wolf I would have to be a complete idiot." Because only an utter moron would hand out the abilities I did to the people I did.
    Yeah. It's not just "why would a wolf give townies these particular powers", it's "why would a wolf give townies any extra powers at all, when they could give scumbuddies powers instead".


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Yeah. It's not just "why would a wolf give townies these particular powers", it's "why would a wolf give townies any extra powers at all, when they could give scumbuddies powers instead".
    It would be remiss to ignore that Rogan has pointed out that a restriction could be that a Wolf! Me could only empower townies. My counter argument to that is that I would have handed out my useless abilities first. Not my good Mafia hunting ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we're about 3 hours and 50 minutes from the EOD. Let's talk finalizing strategies: who are we lynching, whose getting nightkilled, and who needs a bane on them.
    Also, which ability do I drop? Bane or block?

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    It would be remiss to ignore that Rogan has pointed out that a restriction could be that a Wolf! Me could only empower townies. My counter argument to that is that I would have handed out my useless abilities first. Not my good Mafia hunting ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we're about 3 hours and 50 minutes from the EOD. Let's talk finalizing strategies: who are we lynching, whose getting nightkilled, and who needs a bane on them.
    Also, which ability do I drop? Bane or block?
    If I were wolf and I rolled a power that hands out buffs, but only to townies, I'd never use any powers. If I were a wolf and I rolled a power that required me to buff townies, I'd probably auto or suicide.


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffimai View Post
    Spoiler: Vote history
    Show
    Code:
    Meta			Supagoof (1)
    Taffimai		Taffimai (1)
    AV			Elenna (1)
    Rogan			Wombat (1)
    Moonfly 		Wombat (2)
    Elenna			Meta (1)
    Snow			Wombat (3)
    Blade 			Wombat (4)
    BatCat			Wombat (5)
    Elenna			BatCat (1)	Meta (0)
    Meta			BatCat (2)	Supagoof (0)
    Rogan			BatCat (3) 	Dead Wombat (4)
    Moonfly 		-Supagoof- (1) Dead Wombat (3)
    Moonfly			-Elenna- (2) 	Supagoof (0)
    Rogan			Elenna (3)	BatCat (2)
    Snow			Elenna (4)	Dead Wombat (2)
    BatCat			Elenna (5)	Dead Wombat (1)
    AV			BatCat (3)	Elenna (4)
    Snow			BatCat (4)	Elenna (3)
    Moonfly			BatCat (5)	Elenna (2)
    Supagoof		BatCat (6)	No previous vote or I missed it


    If anyone -struck through- their vote after I started reading, I may have missed it. I'm not vouching for this to be accurate, but I have to go shop. Only one still kicking a dead Wombat is Bladescape.
    Looking at the way the votes moved, Elenna managed to deflect votes away from her very well. Her claim might be the greatest reason? I didn't check the time line, but it would fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Unless the scumteam is moon/snow/meta/BCH, moon 100% gifted powers to at least one townie. And while some powers could be useful in a "causing mind screwage" kinda way, that potential "can i trust moon" energy is insignificant next to the power of giving a scumbuddy an extra kill or roleblock. Moon can't be lying about his power on the general points, because then snow or meta would know they're lying. And that means moon can gift powers that don't require you to give up the use of your normal power. Why would a scum!moon ever give a power to a townie instead of a scumbuddy? It boggles the mind that anybody is considering Moon as a possible scum at this point.

    When you get a role that hands out powers as wolf, always always always give them to a scumbuddy. Give them to town? What, are you throwing???
    I could see Meta/BCH/Moon in an worst case scenario.
    It would mean Moon gave the scry to Snow for town cred without that much risk. The POE snow suggested seems to be 100% town, after all.

    But this seems very unlikely. Keep it in mind if Bat and Meta flip scum.

    Gifting the kill to town would be an extremely bold move for scum. Even if they were required to gift their powers to town, the kill is too dangerous at the moment. If given in night 1, perhaps (low danger for scum and probably a dead townie).

    So... not locked town, but very townie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    So, we're about 3 hours and 50 minutes from the EOD. Let's talk finalizing strategies: who are we lynching, whose getting nightkilled, and who needs a bane on them.
    Also, which ability do I drop? Bane or block?
    We should concentrate on the lynch right now. Night actions will depend on the lynch.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    If I were wolf and I rolled a power that hands out buffs, but only to townies, I'd never use any powers. If I were a wolf and I rolled a power that required me to buff townies, I'd probably auto or suicide.
    I bet someone in the dead chat is taking notes right now
    But yeah, being forced to gift town the powers would need to be connected to an advantage if town actually uses them. Otherwise it would be an disadvantage more than a power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    It would be remiss to ignore that Rogan has pointed out that a restriction could be that a Wolf! Me could only empower townies. My counter argument to that is that I would have handed out my useless abilities first. Not my good Mafia hunting ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we're about 3 hours and 50 minutes from the EOD. Let's talk finalizing strategies: who are we lynching, whose getting nightkilled, and who needs a bane on them.
    That would indeed be lovely. I'm not sure who I'm supposed to kill right now (and I would, again, like to request that it not be the Goof).

    Also, which ability do I drop? Bane or block?
    Don't forget that I also have a bane to hand out. Not sure it's safe to use, for obvious reasons, but if we ned someone very safe, I'm at your service.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    That would indeed be lovely. I'm not sure who I'm supposed to kill right now (and I would, again, like to request that it not be the Goof).



    Don't forget that I also have a bane to hand out. Not sure it's safe to use, for obvious reasons, but if we ned someone very safe, I'm at your service.
    I do think waiting till after Lynch might be prudent. If Batcathat flips town, you meta are going to be cleared via there no kill power ability. Which in turn would be good for my credibility for Rogan and the others who aren't sure about me. It'll also give you a better idea of who to keep alive.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Lynch BCH.

    blade and meta kill Moon, Goof, or Elenna (depending on personal preference). That's for y'all to coordinate depending on who you want checked. I'd personally want elenna checked just cuz I trust moon and goof but it's whatever.

    Supagoof and meta bane AV. Give wolves no good choices on who to NK.

    @Rogan Is there any question you want me to ask of you tonight?


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Lynch BCH.

    blade and meta kill Moon, Goof, or Elenna (depending on personal preference). That's for y'all to coordinate depending on who you want checked. I'd personally want elenna checked just cuz I trust moon and goof but it's whatever.

    Supagoof and meta bane AV. Give wolves no good choices on who to NK.

    @Rogan Is there any question you want me to ask of you tonight?
    K, thanks! (Dibs on Elenna.)

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Lynch BCH.

    blade and meta kill Moon, Goof, or Elenna (depending on personal preference). That's for y'all to coordinate depending on who you want checked. I'd personally want elenna checked just cuz I trust moon and goof but it's whatever.

    Supagoof and meta bane AV. Give wolves no good choices on who to NK.

    @Rogan Is there any question you want me to ask of you tonight?
    AV, important question: does the plan change if BCH flips town? It will immediately clear meta, which would make Elena, good, or snow better options for our night kills. Although if he flips mafia obviously I don't think anything changes.
    Though I think you should whack Elena definitley out of those NK options.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Right now, bat is on the chopping block.
    If he flips town, Meta is locked town. If Bat flips scum, Meta is a bit more suspicious.

    Elenna is the alternative. If she flips town:
    I am 100% mech clear. Goof is more likely to be town, unless lying about the power. Snow is more suspicious, for the RAC quote.
    If Elenna flips scum: I won't be cleared but I would have to be bussing this time. Goof is a bit more suspicious. Snow is a bit less suspicious.

    From a practical perspective, if Elenna gets her power off, we will have a Seer and Watcher answer, but we won't know if we can trust her.

    If Bat gets his power to work, we will have a limmited psydo Seer, but we won't know if we can trust him. Bat can only check persons without a kill power. Everyone should claim kill/no kill before he selects his target.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    K, thanks! (Dibs on Elenna.)
    Well, at least I won't be given the shame of being murdered with my own power.

    I'll make sure to vote myself and Goof, blade. Do what you must.
    Last edited by moonfly7; 2021-10-25 at 12:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Upick 2 Thread 2: Revenge of the Upick

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    AV, important question: does the plan change if BCH flips town? It will immediately clear meta, which would make Elena, good, or snow better options for our night kills. Although if he flips mafia obviously I don't think anything changes.
    Though I think you should whack Elena definitley out of those NK options.
    Snow is also an acceptable NK, regardless of result. Depending on her self-reveal power (or rather, depending on her being honest) is the main concern there. I don't think you're scum, but I have a feeling some people aren't going to be persuaded by anything that isn't pure mechanical confirmation so.


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