Cursed/Living Magic Items

[werescythe]

So this is kind of a goofy idea I had the other day and I thought I would post it and see if anyone had any comments or suggestions on it.

Basically the thought is that all the magic items that the players come across in the game are living items and since these items (at first) aren't necessarily fond of the idea of being handled by people they don't know, each item starts off cursed. However, as they players work more with these items and develop relationships with them (doesn't have to be romantic, could just be that of friends or siblings, etc...) the more likely that item will become uncursed for that player and perhaps later on grow in power.

For example a Bag of Holding might start off as a Bag of Devouring, annoyed at the player for shoving things inside of it (and perhaps even unleashing the Bag Man, if their relationship goes further south) but as they grow closer the bag no longer bits and perhaps it can do something else to aid the player (can't think of anything off of the top of my head that makes sense but you get the idea).

Maybe you uncover an evil magical sword that urges you to kill indiscriminately, but instead you try to convince him that this isn't right. At first he might grow to hate you and the sword's curse grows stronger, but as you continue not to slay everything you see and uncover more of the sword's backstory maybe his alighnment begins to change as you in a sense help him down his redemption arc.

And before you ask, no, I haven't played Boyfriend Dungeon, and I would argue that this isn't really the same as the items in this concept remain as items (though I did have the idea that perhaps when the player characters sleep they can communicate with their item and vice versa, during which the living item might take on a more humanoid form... maybe not at the start but later as the player and the item grow closer).

So what do you all think of this concept? Have you tried something like this in your games? Also what items do you think would be interesting to apply this concept to?

[Sorinth]

Sounds like a very cool concept.

I would maybe not make all items cursed/unusable to begin with though, it should vary by the personality of the item. And I would imagine most to some degree like doing what they are meant/designed to do. So for example the bag of holding might have a shallow mean girl personality, if are putting money, gems, that sort of stuff then it acts like a normal bag of holding even though it doesn't know you yet and has a neutral opinion of you. But put something that doesn't smell nice in the bad and it become angry and becomes that bag of devouring. It might switch back and forth based on mood. Some for sure would be picky about the user/wielder and start off cursed for some, a sword might be a snob and so act cursed if the wielder doesn't have noble blood, but maybe can eventually convince it of your noble heart and so it becomes it's good version, but that same sort would've been the good version for a Noble from the start.

Basically each item is an NPC, some will be friendly and helpful right away, some will be neutral and maybe act like a normal version of the item until you do something for them, and some might be antagonistic from the start.


In terms of mechanics, many cursed items in the D&D can't be removed which is probably not something that would be applicable here. When in cursed mode the item probably wants a new user so shouldn't be unremovable. The other mechanical note I have would be not to overdue being able to use the Persuasion skill with the item. Yes it should be possible but if it's always Persuasion/Charisma check then it's a pretty big balance issue. Instead when trying to impress/convince the item they should make a relevant check based on the item's personality. So to impress the Warhammer you have to make an Athletics check, to impress the Ring of Spell Storing who loves discussing history you have to make a History check, etc...

[Abracadangit]

I think this is rad, for the record. I actually made a whole character once, revolving around this very concept.

He was an Eldritch Knight fluffed to be a half-drunk yakuza-themed gambler samurai, and each of his attack cantrips (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, etc) were fluffed as different cursed swords that he had acquired. The whole comedy of his setup was while other characters viewed cursed weapons as a detriment, he saw them as a challenge, in that he would wield one until its cursed spirit was exorcised.

Long story short, he ended up befriending his cursed swords, and even becoming kind of protective of them, in a way that sounds kind of like the mechanic you're envisioning, slowly building trust with cursed weapons and such. I also tried to spin off his theme into a mechanic that could be put to use in other campaigns, but nothing came of it.

It's a hoot, but you better set time aside for the subsystem you're thinking of building. It turns out to be a lot.

[Angelalex242]

Imagine putting characters from fiction in a magic item.

This +3 greatsword has William Wallace in it!

This Holy Avenger has King Arthur (or Sir Galahad!) in it.

This Hammer of Thunderbolts has Chris Hemsworth in it!

Etc.

[werescythe]

Sounds like a very cool concept.

I would maybe not make all items cursed/unusable to begin with though, it should vary by the personality of the item. And I would imagine most to some degree like doing what they are meant/designed to do. So for example the bag of holding might have a shallow mean girl personality, if are putting money, gems, that sort of stuff then it acts like a normal bag of holding even though it doesn't know you yet and has a neutral opinion of you. But put something that doesn't smell nice in the bad and it become angry and becomes that bag of devouring. It might switch back and forth based on mood. Some for sure would be picky about the user/wielder and start off cursed for some, a sword might be a snob and so act cursed if the wielder doesn't have noble blood, but maybe can eventually convince it of your noble heart and so it becomes it's good version, but that same sort would've been the good version for a Noble from the start.

Basically each item is an NPC, some will be friendly and helpful right away, some will be neutral and maybe act like a normal version of the item until you do something for them, and some might be antagonistic from the start.


In terms of mechanics, many cursed items in the D&D can't be removed which is probably not something that would be applicable here. When in cursed mode the item probably wants a new user so shouldn't be unremovable. The other mechanical note I have would be not to overdue being able to use the Persuasion skill with the item. Yes it should be possible but if it's always Persuasion/Charisma check then it's a pretty big balance issue. Instead when trying to impress/convince the item they should make a relevant check based on the item's personality. So to impress the Warhammer you have to make an Athletics check, to impress the Ring of Spell Storing who loves discussing history you have to make a History check, etc...

I like the feedback you provided, it's pretty awesome.

I didn't know about the whole weird Charisma conflict mechanic until recently and personally I agree that it's not the greatest thing. It could make sense for some weapons, but the idea that it can take control over you is a bit much.

Personally I think that if a magical item is upset it should either not allow the wielder to benefit from its magical effects or place a curse on them. For example, you might have someone wielding the Hammer of Argoth, which possesses a smite like ability when you hit enemies with it. One day when passing through a town the hammer requests the user to go to the temple they are passing by so that it can pay homage to a deity there but the user refuses. Maybe after a few times of this going on where the hammer's request is ignored, the wielder is in combat and attempts to "smite" with the Hammer of Argoth, only for the hammer to refuse and the weapon just strikes normally.

As for curses, I'm sure there could be curses other than being unable to let the weapon go, like perhaps when the wielder is trying to make an ability check/save the weapon in it's annoyance invokes its curse and rolls 1D4 (or maybe a higher dice depending on the weapons mood) and subtracts that number from the player's roll. Or perhaps an angry assassin's dagger decides to curse the wielder by poisoning them. Or a magical rod might force the wielder to make a concentration check for a concentration spell they have in place even though the wielder hasn't taken any damage. Maybe a magical shield decides to reduce it's wielder's AC instead of increasing it. Stuff like that.

Of course, you'd want to theme it around the magic item, but stuff like that could be fun.

But yeah, I think it could be fun to explore the idea of players developing a partnership with their weapons and perhaps in some cases those magic items change based off of their wielder's actions. Like I mentioned before perhaps you have an sword that once belonged to an ancient darklord who was obsessed with slaying innocents, gradually through their relationship with the paladin that is wielding it goes down a new path where it is trying to redeem itself.

[Unoriginal]

So this is kind of a goofy idea I had the other day and I thought I would post it and see if anyone had any comments or suggestions on it.

Basically the thought is that all the magic items that the players come across in the game are living items and since these items (at first) aren't necessarily fond of the idea of being handled by people they don't know, each item starts off cursed. However, as they players work more with these items and develop relationships with them (doesn't have to be romantic, could just be that of friends or siblings, etc...) the more likely that item will become uncursed for that player and perhaps later on grow in power.

For example a Bag of Holding might start off as a Bag of Devouring, annoyed at the player for shoving things inside of it (and perhaps even unleashing the Bag Man, if their relationship goes further south) but as they grow closer the bag no longer bits and perhaps it can do something else to aid the player (can't think of anything off of the top of my head that makes sense but you get the idea).

Maybe you uncover an evil magical sword that urges you to kill indiscriminately, but instead you try to convince him that this isn't right. At first he might grow to hate you and the sword's curse grows stronger, but as you continue not to slay everything you see and uncover more of the sword's backstory maybe his alighnment begins to change as you in a sense help him down his redemption arc.

And before you ask, no, I haven't played Boyfriend Dungeon, and I would argue that this isn't really the same as the items in this concept remain as items (though I did have the idea that perhaps when the player characters sleep they can communicate with their item and vice versa, during which the living item might take on a more humanoid form... maybe not at the start but later as the player and the item grow closer).

So what do you all think of this concept? Have you tried something like this in your games? Also what items do you think would be interesting to apply this concept to?

Are you familiar with the cartoon Wakfu?

A whole lot of demons called Sushu tried to invade the world, so to defeat them they were stuck into various items, which were then entrusted to guardians. All those items are powerful, but the demon can possess the wielder if the wielder let them or can't resist them, leading to a monstrous transformation as the being takes a form closer to the demon's original one, with associated powers (and a power boost for the being's own capacities). On top of that, even if the Sushu can usually do little more than snark at the world, given the opportunity they can misguide people or tell them erroneous informations, or the like.

Usually, you need to show the Sushu who's the boss before you can use them to their full power. Some of the Sushus even ended up befriending their guardians, and even allowed them to transform without losing their control.

[newbie padawan]

Cursed Émigré Manuscript is ma fav

[Sorinth]

I like the feedback you provided, it's pretty awesome.

I didn't know about the whole weird Charisma conflict mechanic until recently and personally I agree that it's not the greatest thing. It could make sense for some weapons, but the idea that it can take control over you is a bit much.

Personally I think that if a magical item is upset it should either not allow the wielder to benefit from its magical effects or place a curse on them. For example, you might have someone wielding the Hammer of Argoth, which possesses a smite like ability when you hit enemies with it. One day when passing through a town the hammer requests the user to go to the temple they are passing by so that it can pay homage to a deity there but the user refuses. Maybe after a few times of this going on where the hammer's request is ignored, the wielder is in combat and attempts to "smite" with the Hammer of Argoth, only for the hammer to refuse and the weapon just strikes normally.

As for curses, I'm sure there could be curses other than being unable to let the weapon go, like perhaps when the wielder is trying to make an ability check/save the weapon in it's annoyance invokes its curse and rolls 1D4 (or maybe a higher dice depending on the weapons mood) and subtracts that number from the player's roll. Or perhaps an angry assassin's dagger decides to curse the wielder by poisoning them. Or a magical rod might force the wielder to make a concentration check for a concentration spell they have in place even though the wielder hasn't taken any damage. Maybe a magical shield decides to reduce it's wielder's AC instead of increasing it. Stuff like that.

Of course, you'd want to theme it around the magic item, but stuff like that could be fun.

But yeah, I think it could be fun to explore the idea of players developing a partnership with their weapons and perhaps in some cases those magic items change based off of their wielder's actions. Like I mentioned before perhaps you have an sword that once belonged to an ancient darklord who was obsessed with slaying innocents, gradually through their relationship with the paladin that is wielding it goes down a new path where it is trying to redeem itself.

Yeah I think the trick is not to get bogged down too much on the exact rules of how things work, if during gameplay it makes sense to have a cursed aspect emerge, or make some new power show up, just go with it. Whether the item grew in power, or always had but was withholding that aspect is irrelevant rules wise but can make create some cool RP. Basically treat every magical item as you would an NPC and have as much variety in terms of personality as possible and you should be good.

The other thing to note is dealing with the Identify spell. Let the players know in advance the spell is somewhat resisted by items so you might not get a full list of powers, and it's super invasive so it's pretty much universally hated by items. That will discourage players from using the spell and instead encourage researching the items history to find out about powers and talking to the item to uncover it's powers.


One final thought is that I really like this idea because it seems like such a great way to get the players to care about NPCs and storylines that they might not otherwise care too much about. A player/character might not care about the rumors of some town they know nothing about being threatened by a monster, but if the item cares the player is almost assuredly going to start to care. Just don't be too railroady in how you go about doing this.

[werescythe]

The other thing to note is dealing with the Identify spell. Let the players know in advance the spell is somewhat resisted by items so you might not get a full list of powers, and it's super invasive so it's pretty much universally hated by items. That will discourage players from using the spell and instead encourage researching the items history to find out about powers and talking to the item to uncover it's powers.

I LOVE THIS! I LOVE THIS! THIS IS A GREAT CONCEPT!!!

Sorry for yelling. I just thought that this was an awesome suggestion.

[dafrca]

I think this is rad, for the record. I actually made a whole character once, revolving around this very concept.

He was an Eldritch Knight fluffed to be a half-drunk yakuza-themed gambler samurai, and each of his attack cantrips (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, etc) were fluffed as different cursed swords that he had acquired. The whole comedy of his setup was while other characters viewed cursed weapons as a detriment, he saw them as a challenge, in that he would wield one until its cursed spirit was exorcised.

Long story short, he ended up befriending his cursed swords, and even becoming kind of protective of them, in a way that sounds kind of like the mechanic you're envisioning, slowly building trust with cursed weapons and such. I also tried to spin off his theme into a mechanic that could be put to use in other campaigns, but nothing came of it.

It's a hoot, but you better set time aside for the subsystem you're thinking of building. It turns out to be a lot.

This sounds like it was a great character to play and have in the game. Love the idea of him making friends with them and slowly they became wanted and protected. So cool.

[Abracadangit]

This sounds like it was a great character to play and have in the game. Love the idea of him making friends with them and slowly they became wanted and protected. So cool.

Hey, thanks! Yeah, he was a hoot.

I just loved the idea of playing someone where, instead of him being afraid of cursed weapons, cursed weapons are afraid of him. Of course, I was lucky in that all my "cursed weapons" were really just refluffs, and not, y'know, legit cursed weapons. But still -- it was a good time.