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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Housing spellcaster prisoners

    How do D&D societies house their magic-wielding prisoners? Obviously antimagic cells are one possibility, but since not just anyone can make an antimagic field, this is probably an expensive system. I would think that a) not all prisons have such cells, and b) not all casters are powerful enough to be worth locking into such a cell. Likewise, a lot of spellcasting can be prevented by depriving prisoners of their spellbooks, holy symbols, etc. but not all.

    So are there lesser precautions that a prison might take to house, say, a low-level caster who isn't powerful enough to fly or teleport out, isn't conjuring massive balls of fire to obliterate walls, but is still potentially dangerous to other inmates or prison guards? What does an "average" prison look like in a D&D world?
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    I would think spellcasters might be bound and gagged, if they are really worried about it. Keeping them under armed guard might be enough- if they start casting, someone can smack them or stab them to shut them up. Some places might have a brutal policy like summary execution or maiming, if spell casters there have been really hard to control. Don't bother trying to jail a magical trouble maker, just kill them or chop their hands and/or tongue off, if you don't have magics powerful enough to hold them (like permanent anti-magic fields, silence spells,etc.).
    Last edited by Thrudd; 2021-10-24 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Why would you keep them prisoners instead of executing them?

    (1) Because this is a small infraction, and you want a short prison sentence to teach them a lesson
    => Just take away their equipment, and make it clear that if they're caught trying to escape or causing any problems, things will get much worse for them. Tying their hands and gagging them is also a possibility for very short sentences.

    (2) Because you don't want them around ever, but killing them would be unfair
    => Exile them, with significant penalty (death?) if they came back. They're not your problem any more, and you're forcing them to start back from zero which is already a significant punishment. You might want to also cut their tongue or one hand, if you really want to punish them.

    (3) Because they're too important to be killed (political reasons, social standing, etc)
    => They will probably be put in a golden prison, so just hope they're honourable enough to not force their way out, or that you will caught them doing something dishonourable enough to execute them.

    (4) Because this place is ruled by a "modern" society
    => This modern society probably have some custom magic items or custom spells to handle those situations. Or some specially trained guards. Etc

    Also note that Zone of Truth is very practical to test the future prisoners on whether or not they intend to escape, what are their potential means of escape, etc.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    It won't work for all spellcasters, but for most of them - mittens. Specifically, locked mittens that have individual finger sleeves inside (and therefore hold the fingers in place). Prevents somatic components (and lockpicking), and while irritating for the prisoners, isn't as bad as being chained up.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2021-10-24 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    It won't work for all spellcasters, but for most of them - mittens. Specifically, locked mittens that have individual finger sleeves inside (and therefore hold the fingers in place). Prevents somatic components (and lockpicking), and while irritating for the prisoners, isn't as bad as being chained up.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Some would be more difficult than others but with no spell casting focus you need all them pesky components.

    I also imagine major cities have silence chambers in their prisons.

    Some casters can get around these limitations with some spells though.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Not allowing them to get 8 hours of rest a day will keep them from regaining spells.

    I'm sure there are methods of draining spells/magic from casters, too.

    Keeping them too drugged-up to cast would work. I seem to remember the existence of a poison or two that blocks Casting, or at least makes it harder.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Back in 2e (when casters had limitations) it was fairly easy. Take away the holy symbol for clerics and spell casting components for mages. Most spells had a material component. And spell books. No spell book meant no chance to memorise.

    Plus you needed to be rested and spend a long time memorising/praying for spells so just interrupt their sleep and they aren't rested enough to get spells.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    AD&D & prior: Remove casting gear & books. If you're paranoid ball gags or permament silence or exposure to obivilax (memory moss) or the Feeblemind spell.

    3e: Ball gags or permanent silence & cuff their hands behind their backs. Force them to go swimming/sprinting every 3 hours. Hit them with Feeblemind 40 times.

    4e & later: Death. Alternately, everything for 3e plus full immobilization and Feeblemind them daily.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Thanks for the responses so far. I think this would benefit from a bit more context:

    I'm planning a "prison break" game, inspired a bit by the video game A Way Out but with a full party rather than 2 people. The PCs will all be starting off the game as prisoners, so "just kill the spellcasters" is not an option that I can run with. Likewise I'm not super enthused by making the casters be bound & gagged at all times, since that would prevent them from doing things like being able to interact with NPCs in the prison yard. I guess I could just have some casters among the guards and make it so they have to be careful of when and what they cast to avoid getting caught, but I want to try to avoid being too heavy-handed with it as well.

    The prison is going to be an Alcratraz/Chateau d'If-style island prison where the characters have been dumped for various reasons: one is a murderer, one has a personal nemesis who forged papers to get them sent away, and a couple were pretty much just in the wrong place at the wrong time and got swept up with the others. If this goes well, they'll need to come up with a clever escape plan to get out of the prison, and then find a way off the island. They're starting at level 1 so it shouldn't be too hard to contain them, but I want to minimize railroading while designing a setup that also makes sense.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Something a bit expensive, but a lot less so than permanent antimagic, and that might suit your needs well - magic alarm bracelet / ankle shackle / whatever.

    This is just a minor magic item using Detect Magic (limited) plus Ghost Sound - if you remove the bracelet or use any other magic it blasts a loud alert noise until someone with the proper key shuts it off (or it's broken, but make it out of mithral and that's pretty tough to do). The noise can be custom to the bracelet too, so it identifies who did it immediately.

    Seems like this would be an interesting risk dynamic for the PCs - when the time comes to make their move, they can use magic, but they'll have to be sure that this is the time because it won't be subtle. The sound can be stifled (as loud as four people by default, up to twenty if it's higher quality), but only when out of sight because having a bunch of blankets wrapped around your arm/leg is kind of obvious. Or you can bluff that it went off by mistake, which may not be implausible for heavily used magic items that get re-used by dozens of prisoners - maybe it even should have a small chance to actually go off by mistake.


    As for the most likely place to use this - a fairly humane prison where keeping prisoners mittened and/or gagged all the time is considered unacceptable. This could be either that it's low-security, that it's used to house politically important prisoners, or just that the country it's in has high ethical standards.

    Alternately though, a less ethical prison that doesn't want to put in much work may still use this, since then the prisoners can tend to themselves and less staff is required.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2021-10-25 at 12:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Sleep deprivation, for spellcaster spellcasters that have to replenish spells per day. Not necessarily severe sleep deprivation, but enough to ensure they don't get a solid eight hours at a stretch.

    Ckerics don't need rest, so they might need to be gagged or handcuffed, or else interrupted at least once per hour to prevent them from completing the ritual to refill their spell slots

    For folks and creatures with at-will powers something more severe might be required; some kind of expensive device that radiates an anti-magic field (or at least a globe of invulnerability effect) might indeed be needed. Some kind of equivalent to the reality anchors from SCP.

    The cost of this could be mitigated by building the prison in a natural dead magic area.


    EDIT:
    Another potential but unreliable solution for stopping clerics would be to hang the symbol of a more powerful deity who is enemy to the cleric's deity in their cell. The rival deity then could block the cleric's deity from hearing the cleric's prayers (although they probably won't however as they can only block divine sensing over a limited number of areas at once
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2021-10-25 at 12:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Well in that case your answer is drugs. Simply DM fiat that there's a fairly unknown combination of fairly common herbs that, prepared correctly and mixed with pure water, inhibits spellcasting. The guards just dump a bunch down the well in the courtyard every week. Doesn't work if you drink wine or beer, doesn't work if you boil it as tea, doesn't work if you add anything extra or the water has minerals in it. Takes about three or four days to wear off once you stop drinking the water.

    Your other options in modern D&D are either mutilation & torture, covering the whole place in DM fiat antimagic, or going full on high end magic-as-technology modern style incarceration.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Many spells require sight, voice and hands. Remove those and you should be good. Also arcane focus obviously
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    Not allowing them to get 8 hours of rest a day will keep them from regaining spells.

    I'm sure there are methods of draining spells/magic from casters, too.
    Won't denying them long rest also kill them in 6-10 days in 5e? Which is a way to deal with spellcasters, I guess ^^

    Of course, the most efficient way to deal with them is not to jail them at all (or at least not long-term. binding and gagging them for a night so that they can be brought to the judge/baron/archmage would be a decent short term solution), but instead kill them, banish them, fine them or force them into state/guild service.

    Since the question is about a "prison break" scenario, then we need to find some "custom" solution

    - Some sort of antimagic manacle/collar might work and will be a nice challenge to get rid of, but the existence of these will affect the gameworld (and the player's arsenal once they get out of the prison)
    - a high magical security zone under some sort of silence spell + the removal of any focus/component. Some spells work without those, but the players will have to be creative to make do with what they have left (or be creative and try to create/harvest/smuggle those components they usually completely ignore during normal gameplay ^^)
    Last edited by Kardwill; 2021-10-25 at 03:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    I still think finding a natural dead magic zone to build the prison over is a good idea with a lot of story potential.

    Thought: What if the top level had a lumpy uneven ceiling that followed the upper boundry of the zone, that would be cool and memorable, wouldn't it?

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    As has been said already, the simplest methods are by taking away casting equipment, binding and gagging, and limiting their test periods to less than eight hours a day. These measures could even be extended to everybody, given the existence of pact magic in 5e binding/gagging night just be routine.

    Because there are very few spells which lack both verbal and somatic commitments.

    As a side note, other systems can have interesting implications for imprisoning spellcasters. Spellcasting in GURPS causes Fatigue, meaning that a viable solution for imprisoning spellcasters is hard physical labour. I sure that you could find such a solution in Shadowrun or other such systems.

    Also for low level casters, ensure that you've taken precautions like guard dogs and spreading flour near the exits. They aren't foolproof, but you can mitigate the usefulness of spells like Invisibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    for a low security prison, just having a cell with open bars and large groups of guards walk outside. the prisoner can't do anything without being seen, and charming one guard isn't doing any good. picking locks, digging through walls and other similar ways are too slow and won't escape detection.
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Also, low-medium level casters aren't that much of an issue generally. Say you can open locks and turn invisible. That get's you out of your cell and up the corridor to the guardroom with guards and dogs. When you open the door to it, the bell rings, the guard and the dog look up and when they don't see you, they know to take steps against invisible prisoner on the loose.

    Also, if they can catch you, they probably have the resources to hold you
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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Exercise period every six hours. They will get enough rest to stay healthy, but will never get 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep.
    Last edited by Jay R; 2021-10-26 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    I am reminded of the classic A4 module from AD&D and its description of the special treatment afforded to clerics and druids.

    Those were the good old days.

    In short, stuff everyone already described, with stripping all material items from everyone and sleep deprivation for the casters being top of the list. That'd work for everything pre-4th Edition, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    I am reminded of the classic A4 module from AD&D and its description of the special treatment afforded to clerics and druids.

    Those were the good old days.

    In short, stuff everyone already described, with stripping all material items from everyone and sleep deprivation for the casters being top of the list. That'd work for everything pre-4th Edition, right?

    - M
    Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.
    Well, as I recall that wasn't really the plan...after all, hard to make money off corpses...it just happened (wasn't it sort of an escape? Now I must look!).

    Yup, that's it...there was an earthquake, and then the high priest orders them sacrificed to the earth god, and they get gassed and wake up in the cave.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Notably, shortly after stripping them of everything the prisoners get dumped, naked, in a dangerous cavern complex to die lol. No long term imprisonment plan.
    How uncivilised.

    They should have given them itchy sackcloth tunics first. Hard to appreciate your impending doom when you're trying to give everybody else done privacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    If you're in a rich, really high magic world, kill them on capture. Then raise them for trial. Then kill them again if they're condemned. If they get off on appeal, you can always raise them a second time.
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    In 5e, beat them unconscious and weld them into a suit of plate armour. Doesn't work on paladins.
    Last edited by Excession; 2021-10-29 at 06:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    I feel like we should acknowledge the best musical D&D jailbreak ever.


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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Honour system: "We know you can easily escape, but if you stick around until the trial we'll treat you well. If you escape, next time we catch you we'll just kill you."

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    Default Re: Housing spellcaster prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    As a side note, other systems can have interesting implications for imprisoning spellcasters. Spellcasting in GURPS causes Fatigue, meaning that a viable solution for imprisoning spellcasters is hard physical labour.
    By the rules it isn't. First Fatigue from labor recovers at point/10 minutes or faster, so keeping the caster at exactly 0 FP is impossibly hard, and with 3 points you can try to do something in some situations (Create Door, 10-yard Teleport, Lockmaster on one lock, Levitation for 1 minute, and many more options become available if you manage to recover say 6 points). Then usually there is an option to get some spells at 0 cost (organizing an escape with only those may be too hard, but unlimited Message usually also more than jailers are willing to allow their prisoners), and finally there is an option to get into negative FP or burn HP to power the spell (but jailers cannot normally keep people at negative FP, it will kill them in days).

    For mages all you need is Drain Mana or Suspend Magery, but other magic-users are harder. Divine-powered guys are especially hard to block within the "generic fantasy" options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    By the rules it isn't. First Fatigue from labor recovers at point/10 minutes or faster, so keeping the caster at exactly 0 FP is impossibly hard, and with 3 points you can try to do something in some situations (Create Door, 10-yard Teleport, Lockmaster on one lock, Levitation for 1 minute, and many more options become available if you manage to recover say 6 points). Then usually there is an option to get some spells at 0 cost (organizing an escape with only those may be too hard, but unlimited Message usually also more than jailers are willing to allow their prisoners), and finally there is an option to get into negative FP or burn HP to power the spell (but jailers cannot normally keep people at negative FP, it will kill them in days).

    For mages all you need is Drain Mana or Suspend Magery, but other magic-users are harder. Divine-powered guys are especially hard to block within the "generic fantasy" options.
    I didn't check the book because I'm 90% verse m certain that there's a work around for anything in the GURPS library. But if we assume that most NPCs don't optimise than the average spellcaster probably can't cast spells for free and isn't strong enough to overpower the guards first thing in the morning, needing that for your average message a close eye and hard work will deal with them.

    PC mages are very rarely average, so if you wanted to hold them you'll need to get more specialised. And yes, it is hard to hold somebody with divine backing, which makes a lot of sense. The chosen of the god of thieves can probably escape almost any prison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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