Dynamic Movement (5e D&D Speed rework)

[Rilmani]

When you roll initiative a creature’s Speed matches the Speed on their character sheet; it can be spent in 5 foot increments using any form of movement it knows which is appropriate for the environment. Expended movement **is not** recovered at the start of your next turn and you must track how much movement you have spent each turn. A creature’s Speed cannot be reduced below 0.


When a creature takes the *Dodge* or *Disengage* Action they recover half of their maximum Speed as part of their Action, but this cannot raise their Speed above their maximum.

When a creature takes the *Dash* Action they may immediately move 10 feet without expending any speed. After making that choice they recover all of their expended Speed.

Ending the Prone condition costs half of a creature’s maximum Speed.

A creature with a Fly Speed that is at least 5 feet above a solid surface must spend at least 5 feet of speed on their turn in movement, or they must spend 5 feet at the end of their turn to hover. A creature with 0 Speed that cannot pay this cost descends at a rate of 60 feet at the end of their turn, but does not take falling damage.

When a creature rolls a skill check to resist a Shove attack, if they fail the opposed check by 5 or more they lose 5 Speed. If they fail by 10 or more they lose 10 Speed.


Comments: Difficult terrain is unchanged. Dash has been altered. Keep in mind that, as always, you can use movement before and after taking an action, so you may be able to move 30+ feet, Dash 10 feet, and then spend 30+ more feet moving. Disengage and Dodge have been modified to stand as alternatives to Dash in this system and to make recovering from Prone a more interesting choice. Shove has been altered to make it a stronger choice, though I can imagine someone making those benefits subclass-exclusive or part of a feat; perhaps it should be specified as “shove as part of the Attack Action” so it doesn’t buff Shield Master? I don’t know. I think that escaping the range of spellcasters and archers (via moving around obstacles or pure distance) is a great deal more viable this way.

Scout Rogue, the Mobile feat and Drunken Master Monk probably need some changes to fit this setup.

Goal: I wanted a resource which could be expended to make melee combat more interesting. I reckon this could be the base for such a system, spending Speed for abilities and regaining it through specific actions (skill checks?) to spice things up. I admit a lot of GMs will give the average enemy “recovers 30 feet of speed at the start of its turn,” but that isn’t an unsurmountable penalty to PCs- it’d encourage caltrops, bag of marbles, Snare, Nets, and the digging of pits.

Thoughts?

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm really not sure that this makes melee combat more interesting. Once you're in melee range you don't need to move unless your current target dies or moves out of range, it arguably doesn't do anything other than make melee characters have to wait an additional round until they can engage again.

It also makes Rogue a really tempting dip, because Cunning Action is suddenly far better. Last enemy within melee range of you just dropped? Either dash and move to engage a new one or Dodge and move half your speed. Sure, Dash itself gives less, but Cunning Action is the only way to consistently do stuff while moving.

[Rilmani]

I'm really not sure that this makes melee combat more interesting. Once you're in melee range you don't need to move unless your current target dies or moves out of range, it arguably doesn't do anything other than make melee characters have to wait an additional round until they can engage again.

It also makes Rogue a really tempting dip, because Cunning Action is suddenly far better. Last enemy within melee range of you just dropped? Either dash and move to engage a new one or Dodge and move half your speed. Sure, Dash itself gives less, but Cunning Action is the only way to consistently do stuff while moving.

Moving forward there will be room for attacks which reduce the speed of enemies (hamstring, a cold version of Flame Tongue, the injury table’s Limp option getting attached to more abilities) which suddenly become a factor in battle. Ray of Frost is already an option, but it becomes a solid choice in more situations (especially if the party designs themselves to coordinate in certain ways). Characters can now rank a bit more effectively with this rules modification to Push. As I said in my initial post, I like the idea of someone “setting themselves into a stance” (whether they are a caster, martial artist, ranged attacker, or melee attacker), thereby spending some of their Speed, to gain benefits in combat. Some characters could also gain benefits if you attack a creature that has 0 speed, leaning to the idea of A) bracing one’s weapon to really strike a charging foe, or B) coordinating with your party to gain that little bit of additional combat advantage.

Soon enough surrounding a back line character after setting up for a round or two for the coordinated “everyone rush X” is more viable now, or it will be once ranged attacks that work like Ray of Frost become more common for PCs and enemies.

Spells which move creatures become a bit more viable this way. Gust, Gust of Wind, and effects that knock creatures prone actually affect the flow of battle now (without requiring a 100 foot map). Grappling becomes a stronger choice for monsters before you factor in effects like Pinning, Swallow Hole, and automatic damage to a grappled target. In a combat where Grappling, Push attacks, and attacks which penalize speed exist, you can extend the length of every battle by at least a bit.


Next any effect which is sustained with concentration or takes an action to interrupt becomes more effective since it potentially gets to tick for an extra round while characters reposition. For example if you are stuck next to Flaming Sphere and a creature in melee, you may now seriously consider between Dodge, Disengaging and Dashing based on what you might need to do in later rounds or what terrain is around you. Creatures (including PCs) are more likely to throw their weapon for an attack (if that is an option for their weapon type) if they can’t get within reach of their target, thus leaving themselves unable to make attacks of opportunity for a round.


After that if you have a battlefield with difficult terrain and cover, then enemies who dart around the battlefield will gain genuine survivability rather than getting focused down. The Charger feat and Zephyr Strike become stronger options (though they could also be adjusted).


With all of that said though- I think I gave too much movement to the Dodge and Disengage options. They are especially strong on Monks and Rogues. I could also remove the free movement from Dash if I nerfed Dodge and Disengage all the way down to “restores 5 speed.” Giving Dodge and Disengage 10 Speed is probably the sweet spot. There will be room for other abilities to restore speed.
I dislike how barbarians in particular will be affected by these changes though do to how tight the requirements for Rage are. I’d probably do something like “when you make an attack against a creature while raging, you recover X speed.” Alternatively I’d alter Rage to give them a bit more leeway; forcing all Barbarians to use Reach weapons was not the goal of all this.

[Yakk]

This seems more like "static combat" than "dynamic movement".

You get to move like 30', then become surrounded by mechanical jello.

[PhoenixPhyre]

This seems more like "static combat" than "dynamic movement".

You get to move like 30', then become surrounded by mechanical jello.

Agreed. Plus a whole lot of overhead tracking all the things.

[Rilmani]

This seems more like "static combat" than "dynamic movement".

You get to move like 30', then become surrounded by mechanical jello.

In 5e you already Stand and Deliver (I can’t post the Mythcreants blog link with that title until my account is older) until one side runs out of hit points. In combat you don’t necessarily start 30 feet or more away from an enemy, but I understand why most people would expect that. And I acknowledge that the action economy’s restrictions on Use an Object (caltrops/marbles) make this setup unappetizing at first glance. I’m still working on that.

Hmm. This setup does make the Glamour Bard’s Mantle of Inspiration, the Maneuvering Attack maneuver, and so-on which grant speed as a reaction incredibly useful. Giving abilities like that to everyone would feel… At that point, why even use this movement rework, right?

One possibility is that at the start of a creature’s turn they regain 5 speed (or recover CON Mod x 5 feet). But if you only have 5 speed on your turn, what is the point of Shoving a creature prone or away since that still consumes your attack? Here’s a possibility, for a fighting style if nothing else: When you take the Attack action and hit a creature with a melee weapon attack on an attack that had advantage, you can make a Shove attack against the target as part of the same attack.” I want to say that makes Extra Attack particularly powerful, but… you need a source of Advantage, you need to succeed on your athletics check, and you might not even benefit if you shove a target prone (assuming the previous source of advantage stays active). It isn’t nothing, but it’d have debates.

What’s another option? “When you shove a creature, you can move up to half your maximum speed to follow them as a reaction without spending any speed?” Again, only useful if you’re shoving a creature instead of doing proper attacks. And the average terrain doesn’t have Spike Growth littered about.

“As a bonus action, you can spend 10/15 feet to attempt to shove a creature within your reach.” Hmm. Shoving targets prone, reducing their speed via high-rolling Athletics checks, spending more of your Speed to gain a bonus on the attempt… Eh. I need to consider whether giving every character the Charger feat is a good basis for this odd rework.

I’ll work on it, this idea requires bigger revisions than I’d expected. The idea in my head was that to your character, combat moves at a blistering pace one can barely think through- so if you move, you are juking and lunging hard without a lot of restraint or gentleness. And if you need to MOVE somewhere, then you will dash your heart out to keep a friend from getting gutted. More like a tension-filled war movie than an epic fantasy sword fight. I feel like it would raise the tension for spellcasters too in some circumstances, but that is a ways off.

Agreed. Plus a whole lot of overhead tracking all the things.

Generally you just need a die to track movement. 30 feet needs a d6, 40 feet a d8, etc. every time you move, shift the die to a lower number. Math- 15 feet moved, move your die down 3 steps. And that’s if you don’t want to write this down or type it in next to initiative score in roll20’s initiative tracker.

Thanks for replying, y’all.

[Amechra]

Part of the problem here is that D&D in general doesn't give melee combatants much of a reason to move once they've engaged, and it's not like adding more accounting is going to change that.

I think you'd have a better time of achieving your goal if you gave melee fighters a reason to end their turn without an enemy within 5ft.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Generally you just need a die to track movement. 30 feet needs a d6, 40 feet a d8, etc. every time you move, shift the die to a lower number. Math- 15 feet moved, move your die down 3 steps. And that’s if you don’t want to write this down or type it in next to initiative score in roll20’s initiative tracker.

That's still a bunch of extra steps and a bunch of extra dice and math you need to remember every time you move or take an action. Without actually achieving the purpose--instead it makes the "issue" worse (less movement) or causing melee to be even less favorable than turret-style casters and ranged.

[Anonymouswizard]

Part of the problem here is that D&D in general doesn't give melee combatants much of a reason to move once they've engaged, and it's not like adding more accounting is going to change that.

I think you'd have a better time of achieving your goal if you gave melee fighters a reason to end their turn without an enemy within 5ft.

To me it's just another one of the reasons that Pathfinder 2e is my favourite edition of D&D. Almost every other edition didn't just not give much of a reason to move once in melee, or even discourage it with Attacks of Opportunity/Opportunity Attacks.

Pathfinder 2e meanwhile has calibrated attacks to have a roughly 50% hit rate against foes of a similar level, and most monsters can take an equal leveled character in a fight. Combined with characters having three AP and large penalties for making multiple attacks, along with a relative lack of reaction attacks, means that even sword and board Fighters will want to duck out of melee and reposition to avoid attacks, with some exceptions where you'll want to stand next to the enemy and use an action to get defensive bonuses (and possibly a reaction attack of the monster goes for the squishies).

[JNAProductions]

Part of the problem here is that D&D in general doesn't give melee combatants much of a reason to move once they've engaged, and it's not like adding more accounting is going to change that.

I think you'd have a better time of achieving your goal if you gave melee fighters a reason to end their turn without an enemy within 5ft.

This.

I'll also echo the sentiment that this adds complexity without adding much in the way of depth or fun.