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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Fizban's first impressions

    I decided to make a thread for people to put their first impressions of the new dnd book!


    My personal thoughts after looking at the book for less than 20 minutes:
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    • I love a lot of the art in this! There are some SUPER rad dragons, in particular the great wyrms.
    • More high-level monsters!! Some REALLY fun ones too! I want to throw a dragon with animated breath at my players someday.
    • The hoard items seem like a fun idea, and I would love to get one as a player, but they seem like a bit much to have to keep track of as a gm; I don't usually include that many dragons in one campaign.
    • The random dragon charts look fun!
    • Greatwyrms are alright, not very unique but would be a good bbeg.
    • Not sure why Tiamat is weaker than her aspect.
    • The deep dragon is adorable.
    • In general some VERY fun options for running a dragon cult faction; I might have to throw one of those into my next campaign.
    • DRAGGONEL YES DRAGONRIDER NPCS



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    • All the new Dragonborn are SUPER fun; metallic Dragonborn looks like the most fun race mechanically of any I have ever seen. Unfortunately, chromatic Dragonborn gets the short end of the stick. I don't picture chromatic Dragonborn as defensive, and getting immunity to damage you already resist isn't THAT great.
    • All three feats are fascinating, as they seem powerful by themselves, but I am not sure what character would make use of them. Gift of the chromatic is fun for a melee character, but I am not sure it would ever be worth more than +2 to your stat. Gift of the gem dragon would be fantastic for any caster without a good reaction, basically just druids and clerics. Finally, the gift of the metallic dragon is my favorite by far, but I don't know who would want it. The reaction is awesome, but the cure wounds feels redundant.
    • Monk got nerfed. That is sad.
    • Drakewarden seems better and super cool, but it still doesn't capture the dragon rider fantasy most people want.
    • I am mad that wizard gets all the spells; sorcerers should, but do wizards need this?
    • Nathair's mischief looks a bit too unpredictable to be useful, but also a ton of fun
    • rime's binding ice is now the best second-level spell in the game, by far.
    • I am not sure who would be using ashardalon's stride (maybe a bladesinger), but it is PACK FULL of flavor!
    • I'm glad sorcerers get a summon spell.
    • Draconic transformation seems a bit undercooked.
    • DRAGONNEL YES, DRAGONRIDER PCS. EVERY BARD OR PALADIN I EVER PLAY IS GETTING ONE. I don't even care if it's any good mechanically (it seems just flat out worse than other options tbh). ITS A DRAGON
    • I LOVE the art direction on the draconians. haven't read anything about them yet, but this is what I wish Dragonborn looked like.



    What are your thoughts on the book?
    Last edited by Rfkannen; 2021-10-26 at 01:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfkannen View Post
    Not sure why Tiamat is weaker than her aspect.
    Tiamat shouldn't have an avatar to begin with. In 5e, that's greater-deity stuff, and Tiamat is only a lesser deity.

    Either they forgot that, or they "forgot" that. However, while mid-edition retcons irritate me, I have grown to really dislike that greater/lesser-deity lore, so eh whatever.

    In fact, personally, I think no god should have a true body, only avatars, their soul having become one with a force or philosophy.
    Last edited by Millstone85; 2021-10-26 at 05:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Tiamat shouldn't have an avatar to begin with. In 5e, that's greater-deity stuff, and Tiamat is only a lesser deity.

    Either they forgot that, or they "forgot" that. However, while mid-edition retcons irritate me, I have grown to really dislike that greater/lesser-deity lore, so eh whatever.

    In fact, personally, I think no god should have a true body, their soul having instead become one with a force or philosophy.
    Well they do go into some depth about how dragons are not really gods even though people worship them. So you can't expect them to fully obey the rules of gods. Dragons seem to have multiple existences all at once so I think this fits in with that idea, the avatar of Tiamat is just the echo of Tiamat in this material realm there can be others at the same time in other material realms. Which is just how dragons are.

    I like that mythic actions are really breaking out of the Theros book, I think they make for great boss monsters.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Ashardalon’s Stride is making my current Wizard/Arcane Trickster drool. 50 movement speed (60 with Longstrider), free disengage (so bonus actions can be used to dash or hide), and 1d6 damage to anyone that I get within 5 feet of? That's an amazing spell for him.


    Also, the other character I'm running on the off time for the primary DM is a Ranger who just hit level 3. I'm really struggling now between Swarmkeeper and Drakewarden for my Eberron Ranger.



    Overall I'm very satisfied with this release. I know some people don't like the Monk nerfs, but it is still a solid Monk subclass (and Monks have always been one of my favorite classes). Drakewarden is good, the feats are a solid addition, the spells are a solid addition. I'm very happy with it.
    Last edited by nickl_2000; 2021-10-26 at 07:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Ashardalon’s Stride is making my current Wizard/Arcane Trickster drool. 50 movement speed (60 with Longstrider), free disengage (so bonus actions can be used to dash or hide), and 1d6 damage to anyone that I get within 5 feet of? That's an amazing spell for him.
    It upcasts really well as the extra movement speed scales into more hits. Tabaxi builds can likely do some incredible things with this spell.
    Artificers and Rangers are going to absolutely love this spell. The fact that it takes out objects is really interesting as well.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Also, why in the world doesn't the Drakewarden get Summon Draconic Spirit?
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    It upcasts really well as the extra movement speed scales into more hits. Tabaxi builds can likely do some incredible things with this spell.
    Artificers and Rangers are going to absolutely love this spell. The fact that it takes out objects is really interesting as well.
    It also really feels like a good Warlock spell because of the fantastic upcasting, so it's a shame that they don't get it.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Also, why in the world doesn't the Drakewarden get Summon Draconic Spirit?
    Because a dragonborn drakewarden riding a dragon while summoning a dragon is too much?

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Also, why in the world doesn't the Drakewarden get Summon Draconic Spirit?
    Because no one plays rangers to the point they get 5th level spells :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    It also really feels like a good Warlock spell because of the fantastic upcasting, so it's a shame that they don't get it.
    They might add it as a subclass spell for the dragon patron warlock.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    Because a dragonborn drakewarden riding a dragon while summoning a dragon is too much?
    It's Dungeons and DRAGONS. It's literally in the name of the game, you can't have to much Dragon!
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    It's Dungeons and DRAGONS. It's literally in the name of the game, you can't have to much Dragon!
    It's Dungeons and Dragons not DRAGONS and DRAGONS!!

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    It's Dungeons and DRAGONS. It's literally in the name of the game, you can't have to much Dragon!
    I for one am happy when there’s not twenty different families of Tiamat’s inbred spawn running around the books and artwork.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Are greatwyrms a step above ancient or something else?

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    I for one am happy when there’s not twenty different families of Tiamat’s inbred spawn running around the books and artwork.
    I actually really appreciate the updates to the Dragonborn. They did a really, really good job with that. Enough to make it a solid choice but not overwhelming like Tieflings.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    Are greatwyrms a step above ancient or something else?
    Not sure how they are lore-wise, but in term of power they certainly are.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I actually really appreciate the updates to the Dragonborn. They did a really, really good job with that. Enough to make it a solid choice but not overwhelming like Tieflings.
    First time I've seen anyone say that Tieflings are an overwhelming choice or anything similar. Would you mind elaborating on what you think the (new) Dragonborn does right and the Tiefling doesn't?

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    Are greatwyrms a step above ancient or something else?
    A pretty big step, yes. According to their descriptions, they're essentially draconic demigods, ancient dragons who have ascended to a greater state of being altogether.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    First time I've seen anyone say that Tieflings are an overwhelming choice or anything similar. Would you mind elaborating on what you think the (new) Dragonborn does right and the Tiefling doesn't?
    I think you read that as Tieflings being overwhelmingly powerful. What I meant was that the sheer amount of Tiefling options is overwhelming. With most races you have at most 4 options, with Tieflings you have what, 10?
    Last edited by nickl_2000; 2021-10-26 at 10:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Jackal View Post
    A pretty big step, yes. According to their descriptions, they're essentially draconic demigods, ancient dragons who have ascended to a greater state of being altogether.
    Awesome! My world has just that, waiting in the reserves for when it's time to bust out the major BBEG. One less stat block to worry about in the future is nice :)

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I think you read that as Tieflings being overwhelmingly powerful. What I meant was that the sheer amount of Tiefling options is overwhelming. With most races you have at most 4 options, with Tieflings you have what, 10?
    1 for each archdevil (Asmodeus is the same as the base version, so I count them as one. 10 otherwise) + 4 (feral, winged, dark tongue and hellfire) variants you can mix and match on top. That's 13, unless you consider every possible combination as a separate race, in which case it's 72 (9 archdevil variants times 2 for normal/feral ASI times 4 for infernal legacy versions)
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    1 for each archdevil (Asmodeus is the same as the base version, so I count them as one. 10 otherwise) + 4 (feral, winged, dark tongue and hellfire) variants you can mix and match on top. That's 13, unless you consider every possible combination as a separate race, in which case it's 72 (9 archdevil variants times 2 for normal/feral ASI times 4 for infernal legacy versions)
    WOTC (and the player base) love tieflings apparently.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    From what I have read, it's a pretty solid book. It has lots of things that I will certainly pluck from.

    The one change from earlier versions, is the the Baaz's on death effect. Instead of trapping the weapon, it now has a weak AOE petrification gas. It is a very minor nitpick, but the EVIL dm in me would prefer locking up a martial's weapon for a minute instead of having them do a bunch of easy saving throws that will only do something if they are entirely unlucky.

    Also some of the Fizban side bars are a bit to stomach groaners, but some did get a chuckle from me, especially is side bar about the aspect of bahamut.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I think you read that as Tieflings being overwhelmingly powerful. What I meant was that the sheer amount of Tiefling options is overwhelming. With most races you have at most 4 options, with Tieflings you have what, 10?
    Got it, I indeed thought you meant overwhelming as "too powerful", or maybe as "their thematic overwhelms the rest of the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    1 for each archdevil (Asmodeus is the same as the base version, so I count them as one. 10 otherwise) + 4 (feral, winged, dark tongue and hellfire) variants you can mix and match on top. That's 13, unless you consider every possible combination as a separate race, in which case it's 72 (9 archdevil variants times 2 for normal/feral ASI times 4 for infernal legacy versions)
    For what it's worth I'm pretty sure the game's default is that you can't mix and match the variants (at least not Feral or Winged with one of the archdevil bloodlines), 'cause they're variants for the base Tiefling only.
    Last edited by Unoriginal; 2021-10-26 at 11:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    WOTC (and the player base) love tieflings apparently.
    At least enough to make them core in the PHB even though their celestial counterpart didn't make the cut...
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    For what it's worth I'm pretty sure the game's default is that you can't mix and match the variants (at least not Feral or Winged with one of the archdevil bloodlines), 'cause they're variants for the base Tiefling only.
    Ah, you're right. The 3 variants (Winged, Devil's Tongue, Hellfire) replace Infernal Legacy, and only Asmodeus bloodline gets IL, everyone else has Legacy of [Nine Hells layer] instead. Still, Feral is compatible, as everyone gets ASI... at least without Trasha, which replaces the ASI with pick whatever, making Feral moot.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    I gotta ask, though: who else is going to make the Dragonhide Belt a championship belt for a fisticuff tournament?

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Drakewarden is interesting, Vhuman Drakewarden with druidic warrior and the Magic initiate feat seems like an interesting way to become a solid utility cantrip caster without multiclassing. you could get Druidcraft, Presti and Thaum plus two others, maybe Mending and Mage Hand. You would basically have something like an at will, very minor, Wish.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Tiamat shouldn't have an avatar to begin with. In 5e, that's greater-deity stuff, and Tiamat is only a lesser deity.

    Either they forgot that, or they "forgot" that. However, while mid-edition retcons irritate me, I have grown to really dislike that greater/lesser-deity lore, so eh whatever.

    In fact, personally, I think no god should have a true body, only avatars, their soul having become one with a force or philosophy.
    If I remember correctly, the Hoard of the Dragon Queen modules were written by Kobold Press, not WOTC, which does make it very complicated to understand exactly what 5e's theology system is, considering this was one of the first official modules ever released.
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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    If I remember correctly, the Hoard of the Dragon Queen modules were written by Kobold Press, not WOTC, which does make it very complicated to understand exactly what 5e's theology system is, considering this was one of the first official modules ever released.
    Oh, it's pretty clear what it is: A hot mess.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    If I remember correctly, the Hoard of the Dragon Queen modules were written by Kobold Press, not WOTC, which does make it very complicated to understand exactly what 5e's theology system is, considering this was one of the first official modules ever released.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Oh, it's pretty clear what it is: A hot mess.
    Something I was really hoping would see drastic changes in its reprint, oh well. The design is just so different, you can practically tell at a glance that it was made without full access to the final design of 5e. We know that at best they were working with a pre-release "mostly complete" iteration of the DMG, at worst a completely outdated one.

    On topic: There's so much cool stuff in this book that we want to adapt to our table. That little blurb on a particular Ancient Blue Dragon might be just what our DM was looking for to plan out the campaign extension he wanted to do for SKT.

    My interest is in the whole dragonslaying and hoard item system, I think it's very cool and want to adapt some of my current dragon acquired items to the system. It takes a step towards making earned items feel unique and powerful, something that was previously exclusive to Artifacts with their minor/major boon and bane effects.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2021-10-26 at 12:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Fizban's first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I think you read that as Tieflings being overwhelmingly powerful. What I meant was that the sheer amount of Tiefling options is overwhelming. With most races you have at most 4 options, with Tieflings you have what, 10?
    TIL elves are a tiefling variants

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