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Thread: "Don't Screw This Up."
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2021-11-05, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
I am going to guess "exactly as much as to grant Redcloak any other spelk of the same level".
Edit: "Spelk" being, of course, a subspecies of elk with limited spellcasting abilities. They were made by the same wizard who came up with the owlbears in a vain attempt to recreate that success and re-ignite his carreer.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-11-05 at 09:30 AM.
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2021-11-05, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Interesting proposal! I hadn't considered the possibility that TDO simply doesn't have the juice to do some of these God Things.
My personal intuition is that talking to your direct worshippers wouldn't take more energy than granting even a 1st-level spell. Though maybe there's something else going on there.
The Sophomore Slump is particularly brutal for wizard schools...maybe you're on to something.
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2021-11-05, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Spelk
Spelks are oddly coloured, lumbering beasts resembling elks with a glint of malevolent intellect in their beastly eyes.
Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 1d10 (5 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 50 feet (10 squares)
Armor Class: 9 (-1 size), touch 9, flat-footed 9
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+5
Attack: Gore -4 melee (2d4)
Full Attack: Gore -4 melee (2d4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spells
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., DR 35/magic, easily dispelled, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Decipher Script +1, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Spellcraft +7, Swim +0, Use Magic Device +4
Feats: Magical AptitudeB, Iron Will
Environment: Temperate and cold forests
Organization: Solitary or herd (8-190)
Challenge Rating: 24
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +18
Combat
Spelks use magic. This makes them invincible. Flee!
Easily Dispelled (Su)
A spelks body is partly composed of pure magical energy. This is why they are so powerful. However, this same thing makes them vulnerable to effects that suppress magic. If a spelk is trageted by or is present in the target area of a Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, Mage's Disjunction spell or similar spells and effects, it must make a Fortitude save (DC=the caster's dispel check) or suffer 1d10 points of damage per level of the spell affecting them.
Spells
Spelks cast arcane spells as a 1st level wizard, a 1st level bard and a 1st level warmage.
Spelks cast divine spells as a 1st level druid, a 1st level favoured soul and a 1st level shugenja.
Skills
Spelks have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks.Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-11-05 at 01:15 PM.
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2021-11-05, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Calgary, AB
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
In fairness, he got some really explicit advice from a different seer entirely that he wasn't gonna like what happened if he kept looking for answers. Of all the seers/prophecies to ignore, it just had to be the one that *wouldn't* come true if they had taken it seriously
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2021-11-05, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
That was a loophole loki used. Loki needed an agent to act against the gates but he could not tell Hilgya about the gates. But he could tell her where Durkon was for some unrelated revenge that just happened to align with Loki's goals.
Its a classic loki move. Breaking the spirit of a law by following it to the letter.Last edited by Brutalitops; 2021-11-05 at 07:40 PM.
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2021-11-05, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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2021-11-08, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Last edited by snowblizz; 2021-11-08 at 07:31 PM.
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2021-11-08, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
I think this is pretty reasonable, and it wouldn't even stop TDO from granting Redcloak spells. TDO probably also recognizes that, for better or worse, he's not finding a higher-level cleric who is this committed to the Plan. So it might be "Don't screw this up" in part as "Everything you've cost our people, you'd better get this done."
Then again, according to Jirix, TDO referred to Redcloak as his "true prophet," so maybe he doesn't feel that way.
I think panel 12 is mostly a joke about relationships that are on thin ice / someone having interest that isn't reciprocated, but practically speaking it makes sense to me that Redcloak has stopped trying to Commune, if he ever did.
Spoiler: Start of DarknessThis is not accurate; Redcloak's story makes it clear that The Dark One creates the Crimson Mantle as a response to learning about the rifts and the Snarl. (pp. 42-43)
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2021-11-09, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
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2021-11-09, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Aha. On further reading, I see what you mean. Yeah, your interpretation probably is accurate, then.
Spoiler: Start of DarknessI do find it odd that the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle was hunted down before the Gate ritual was even devised. The goblins were hunted just for trying to learn about the rifts? And how did the Scribble find out? Their own gods? This leaves me with more questions than I came in with.
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2021-11-09, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2021-11-09, 03:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
SpoilerThat's not what Redcloak says, though. He says the first bearer was commanded to "seize the Rift" and the crayons shows him leading a war party. Soon's wife fell into that Rift during a picninc while they were in a diplomatic mission to the Elven Lands, so it seems Lirian's Gate/Rift was located deep in Elven territory. So their action was most likely partly defensive. Also, the crayons shows the First Bearer being defeated by the entire Order of the Scribble (minus Soon, oddly enough) and Serini's diary called Dorukan "the new kid" implying that the Order took some time to form. We don't know how long it's been between Soon and Lirian discovering the Rift and that battle, but it may have been it was long enough for them to learn at least of the scale of the danger. Probably from one of the Twelve or an Elven nature deity that Lirian worshipped.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-11-09, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Yeah, I'm more tired than I thought because I usually can think these things through better and don't miss so many details. But I'll try anyway.
SpoilerFrom the timeline Redcloak gives in SoD and the timeline given by Shojo's retelling of the Scribble, the goblin cleric and Soon + Lirian must have discovered the rift around the same time. But I guess they put together the Scribble before the original bearer of the Crimson Mantle set off to seize the rift? Maybe they were researching it when the goblins attacked? I don't know how long any of this took. And it probably won't matter to the story in any case, I was just trying to piece together the series of events.
Interesting, though, that I now realize The Dark One did not become aware of the other rifts even after learning of the Snarl and studying Lirian's Gate once it was built. I wonder if the Snarl had to eat a goblin cleric specifically for him to notice the rift, someone with a divine connection to him?
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2021-11-09, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Possible interpretations of 'Dont screw this up';
This was the first time TDO told Redcloak to keep fighting for the gates. He might have been tempted to settle for Gobbotopia, destroy Xykon and put his feet up. His God didn't want him accepting a silver medal when gold was still an option.
TDO knew Redcloak would be a *terrible* leader, whose hatred and neuroses would pit Gobbotopia against any nearby human territory and fall victim to the same problems Tarquin faced on the West Continent. While Redcloak was an effective war leader, he wasn't the right goblin to rule peacefully. Getting Redcloak out of Gobbotopia and back on the campaign was the best chance of Gobbotopia surviving indefinitely.
It's possible both are true.
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2021-11-09, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Yeah, admittedly the "well if [god] is angry at [cleric/paladin], then why don't they revoke their powers?" argument can only ever give us a binary switch. Good talent is hard to find (has been for the past 5 years, at least in my country), and you're not going to fire your highest-performing employee for the slightest transgression...or even a few significant ones. I wonder what other "tools" the gods have in their toolbox for handling errant clerics or paladins without "firing" them.
I like both of your interpretations but this one is more impactful character-wise for me. Without bringing too much attention to it, that's definitely what's happening in Gobbotopia: complete with a more charismatic and diplomatic leader who might be more palatable to neighboring nations when they hit the negotiating table. And Redcloak doesn't get to live in the better world he created...
I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there, any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
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2021-11-09, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Germany
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-11-09, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Just as a side note, I loved the implication that The Dark One is just not that "into" Redcloak. And Durkon trying and failing to try to make him feel better about it.
If you think about it, TDO cares about the artifact Redcloak, not the expendible minion currently wearing it. Where Thor cares about all his followers enough to make them feel good about their personal choices when they died. "You've been Thored!"
Hazards of following a LE deity instead of a NG one (I assume Thor is NG not CG as usually depicted cause he has LG priests. Being patron of dwarves may have dragged him in Lawful direction in this reality)
Yeah, admittedly the "well if [god] is angry at [cleric/paladin], then why don't they revoke their powers?" argument can only ever give us a binary switch. Good talent is hard to find (has been for the past 5 years, at least in my country), and you're not going to fire your highest-performing employee for the slightest transgression...or even a few significant ones. I wonder what other "tools" the gods have in their toolbox for handling errant clerics or paladins without "firing" them.
It isn't quite the same thing, but I had a favored soul once who really wasn't a fan of his deity of storms, chaos and destruction. He just wanted to be a healer but an ancestor had lost a bet....well anyway he's stuck with it. His spell list was a negotiation. He had to take 1-2 storm/destructive spells for every wuss cure X or restoration type spell. They were so opposed that stuff inbetween (like a combat buff spell) tended to not make the cut. Being a typical adventurer, his life had enough murderhobo aspects to keep his deity happy even if he'd prefer a quieter life.
As a GM, I had a player who wanted to follow a god of prophecy and luck, and what we did is I gave him a spell list every day (most of it randomized, maybe 1 or 2 spells though that might be pretty cool in the upcoming day based on what I knew as a GM). He then tried to "prove" his god gave him the perfect spell list "lucky and prophetic", trying to find a use for every spell that day. It was pretty fun, but sadly that campaign didn't last long. It was a 6thish level story arc so the total # of spells wasn't a big job for me.Last edited by Seward; 2021-11-09 at 01:59 PM.
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2021-11-09, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Kind of like how Ike felt about General Patton: he's an abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing, but he's my abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing.
Which fits my Ike / General Patton scenario somewhat.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-11-09 at 03:27 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-11-10, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2021-12-23, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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2021-12-24, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Also Hilgya is the perfect counterpoint to that. How long had it been since she last turned up. A lot longer thats for sure.
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2021-12-24, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
That's not a really good counterpoint, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Jirix showed up again, but showing up again and getting a bit of extra spotlight is hardly the same thing as literally saving the world and single-handedly solving a major plot thread. Hilgya was a minor asset who turned into a major liability surprisingly fast. The two things are simply not on the same scale.
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2021-12-24, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
I was responding to the quote snippet, should have gone back and read the context again, i was arguing she was a counterpoint to Jrinx not ever showing up again.
As an aside Jrinx is effectivlly next in line for the high priest position if anythign happens to RC as well as de facto ruler of Gobotopia. Short of "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" he's going to show up in at least the epilogue. I doubt where going to see Xykon, RC, and the snarl all dealt with at the North Pole and then "so long and thanks for all the fish" as an ending.
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2021-12-24, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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2021-12-24, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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2021-12-25, 05:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-12-25, 08:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
But it's also possible that the Dark One wasn't telling him to keep fighting for the gates. It's possible that he was telling him "Now that we've got a stable goblin homeland, which was the ultimate goal all along, the plan's changed. Don't screw it up by continuing with the original plan."
The ambiguity is what makes it great.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2021-12-25, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Except Redcloak was already singularly focused on Gobbotopia at the expense of The Plan, so that meaning doesn't make sense. It only makes sense to remind Redcloak of The Plan, as a note to get his butt in gear after a year of sitting around effectively abandoning The Plan.
No ambiguity. Just "go after the Gate".Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-12-25, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
I too thought that the ambiguity was great (I disagree with Peelee that TDO’s intent was clear), but unfortunately The Giant clarified in the book’s commentary that Redcloak’s god was indeed trying to get him to not screw up the original Plan by making sure he stays focused on the Gates.
It’s one of the only things Rich has said that I’ve thought makes the story less, rather than more, interesting - keeping TDO’s true position opaque would have been fascinating, and indeed it was (to me) until it was clarified.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2021-12-25, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: "Don't Screw This Up."
Jirix did preface it with "a message for you. Regarding the Plan and all..."
So while I did initially think that TDO was talking about Gobbotopia, I can see why The Giant thought he had been clear enough. These things happen.
As for the ambiguity, I think TDO's lack of involvment keeps him mysterious enough to be ambiguous.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.