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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Commune is not free. How much more does it cost for a diety to actually converse with a mortal?
    I am going to guess "exactly as much as to grant Redcloak any other spelk of the same level".

    Edit: "Spelk" being, of course, a subspecies of elk with limited spellcasting abilities. They were made by the same wizard who came up with the owlbears in a vain attempt to recreate that success and re-ignite his carreer.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-11-05 at 09:30 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    But TDO has another issue:

    Interacting on the mortal plane costs divine energy.

    As a new deity, TDO must dole out spells to all his clerics so they can increase the amount of belief and worship he gets, with the goal of earning devotion and souls. This costs divine energy, and the largest single consumer of this energy is our buddy Redcloak. Granting a single 9th level spell consumes the energy of 81 first level spells, and we know RC isn't frugal with his casting.

    Commune is not free. How much more does it cost for a diety to actually converse with a mortal?

    Aside from the devotion granted by each goblinoid who was slain in RC's quest, has Redcloak actually spread the worship of or belief in TDO? Has he brought in a single new soul?

    It seems to me that RC is not the only one investing heavily in a sunk cost fallacy.

    It may be that, having spent so much already, there would need to be a really good reason for TDO to pay the roaming charges to talk to Redcloak.
    Interesting proposal! I hadn't considered the possibility that TDO simply doesn't have the juice to do some of these God Things.

    My personal intuition is that talking to your direct worshippers wouldn't take more energy than granting even a 1st-level spell. Though maybe there's something else going on there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Edit: "Spelk" being, of course, a subspecies of elk with limited spellcasting abilities. They were made by the same wizard who came up with the owlbears in a vain attempt to recreate that success and re-ignite his carreer.
    The Sophomore Slump is particularly brutal for wizard schools...maybe you're on to something.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Edit: "Spelk" being, of course, a subspecies of elk with limited spellcasting abilities. They were made by the same wizard who came up with the owlbears in a vain attempt to recreate that success and re-ignite his carreer.

    Spelk

    Spelks are oddly coloured, lumbering beasts resembling elks with a glint of malevolent intellect in their beastly eyes.

    Size/Type:
    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 1d10 (5 hp)
    Initiative: +0
    Speed: 50 feet (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 9 (-1 size), touch 9, flat-footed 9
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+5
    Attack: Gore -4 melee (2d4)
    Full Attack: Gore -4 melee (2d4)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Spells
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., DR 35/magic, easily dispelled, low-light vision
    Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 11
    Skills: Decipher Script +1, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Spellcraft +7, Swim +0, Use Magic Device +4
    Feats: Magical AptitudeB, Iron Will
    Environment: Temperate and cold forests
    Organization: Solitary or herd (8-190)
    Challenge Rating: 24
    Alignment: Always neutral evil
    Advancement: By character class
    Level Adjustment: +18

    Combat
    Spelks use magic. This makes them invincible. Flee!

    Easily Dispelled (Su)
    A spelks body is partly composed of pure magical energy. This is why they are so powerful. However, this same thing makes them vulnerable to effects that suppress magic. If a spelk is trageted by or is present in the target area of a Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, Mage's Disjunction spell or similar spells and effects, it must make a Fortitude save (DC=the caster's dispel check) or suffer 1d10 points of damage per level of the spell affecting them.

    Spells
    Spelks cast arcane spells as a 1st level wizard, a 1st level bard and a 1st level warmage.
    Spelks cast divine spells as a 1st level druid, a 1st level favoured soul and a 1st level shugenja.

    Skills
    Spelks have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-11-05 at 01:15 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Yeah, that's how prophecy is.
    Wait, what's that? *There's a Mr Oedipus is on the phone, and he'd like to complain!*
    In fairness, he got some really explicit advice from a different seer entirely that he wasn't gonna like what happened if he kept looking for answers. Of all the seers/prophecies to ignore, it just had to be the one that *wouldn't* come true if they had taken it seriously
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    The thing that really turns all of this into a tangled mess is the fact that Loki did talk to Hilgya. She says she prayed every night for an answer, so maybe she was casting commune every night, but if she was why didn't she just say she tried to commune with her god every night instead?

    And then there's whatever's going on with the oracle.

    That was a loophole loki used. Loki needed an agent to act against the gates but he could not tell Hilgya about the gates. But he could tell her where Durkon was for some unrelated revenge that just happened to align with Loki's goals.

    Its a classic loki move. Breaking the spirit of a law by following it to the letter.
    Last edited by Brutalitops; 2021-11-05 at 07:40 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutalitops View Post
    That was a loophole loki used. Loki needed an agent to act against the gates but he could not tell Hilgya about the gates. But he could tell her where Durkon was for some unrelated revenge that just happened to align with Loki's goals.

    Its a classic loki move. Breaking the spirit of a law by following it to the letter.
    That didn't break the spirit of the law at all, though?
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Edit: "Spelk" being, of course, a subspecies of elk with limited spellcasting abilities. They were made by the same wizard who came up with the owlbears in a vain attempt to recreate that success and re-ignite his carreer.
    I got those bar stewards in my garden. They cast invisibility and sneak in and eat my potatoes, beans and other inconsequential stuff like mom's roses.

    Now got dimensionally locked garden fences on back-order from local garden shop. Damn pandemic.
    Last edited by snowblizz; 2021-11-08 at 07:31 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    My guess is that Redcloak has, more or less consciously, avoided having a real talk with the Dark One because he's afraid that
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    his boss doesn't approve of his actions (like sending goblins to die, serving Xykon and murdering Right-Eye) or that Right-Eye was right about the Dark One and that none of this is actually going to help the goblinoids.
    I think this is pretty reasonable, and it wouldn't even stop TDO from granting Redcloak spells. TDO probably also recognizes that, for better or worse, he's not finding a higher-level cleric who is this committed to the Plan. So it might be "Don't screw this up" in part as "Everything you've cost our people, you'd better get this done."

    Then again, according to Jirix, TDO referred to Redcloak as his "true prophet," so maybe he doesn't feel that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    It is an interesting question!

    Just for everyone's refreshment, here's the relevant lines from 1206


    Redcloak does seem extremely surprised at the idea that direct communication with Thor in this matter was even plausible for Durkon (Who isn't a high priest at all), and I'm not sure that "I try to give him his space" ought be interpreted as "I never call" so much as "He never responded and I've stopped trying in case I'm angering him by being pestersome".

    But it feels like a very deliberate set of words to include one way or another, comic joke aside, and I wouldnt be surprised if the next panel set we get of Team Evil ends with redcloak casting Communion, all alone.
    I think panel 12 is mostly a joke about relationships that are on thin ice / someone having interest that isn't reciprocated, but practically speaking it makes sense to me that Redcloak has stopped trying to Commune, if he ever did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I'm also trying to point out that Big Purple does talk to his clerics, if not directly, through the Mantle. And if
    Spoiler: SoD
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    is to be believed, he even updates the info the Mantle imparts with its wearer whenever he finds out something important, since Redcloak tells Xykon it was created before the Gates were.
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    This is not accurate; Redcloak's story makes it clear that The Dark One creates the Crimson Mantle as a response to learning about the rifts and the Snarl. (pp. 42-43)

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    This is not accurate; Redcloak's story makes it clear that The Dark One creates the Crimson Mantle as a response to learning about the rifts and the Snarl. (pp. 42-43)
    It is accurate.
    Spoiler: SoD
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    Redcloak tells Xykon the first Bearer was killed by the Scribblers before Lirian's Gate was created, and yet Redcloak knows not only about the Rift and the Snarl, but also the Gate which was created later than the Mantle.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Aha. On further reading, I see what you mean. Yeah, your interpretation probably is accurate, then.

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    I do find it odd that the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle was hunted down before the Gate ritual was even devised. The goblins were hunted just for trying to learn about the rifts? And how did the Scribble find out? Their own gods? This leaves me with more questions than I came in with.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    I do find it odd that the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle was hunted down before the Gate ritual was even devised. The goblins were hunted just for trying to learn about the rifts? And how did the Scribble find out? Their own gods? This leaves me with more questions than I came in with.
    Spoiler: SoD
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    I'd say there's no need to overthink it. The Scribblers probably just arrived at the Rift at the same time as a group of armed goblins and things escalated quickly from there.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Aha. On further reading, I see what you mean. Yeah, your interpretation probably is accurate, then.

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    I do find it odd that the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle was hunted down before the Gate ritual was even devised. The goblins were hunted just for trying to learn about the rifts? And how did the Scribble find out? Their own gods? This leaves me with more questions than I came in with.
    Spoiler
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    That's not what Redcloak says, though. He says the first bearer was commanded to "seize the Rift" and the crayons shows him leading a war party. Soon's wife fell into that Rift during a picninc while they were in a diplomatic mission to the Elven Lands, so it seems Lirian's Gate/Rift was located deep in Elven territory. So their action was most likely partly defensive. Also, the crayons shows the First Bearer being defeated by the entire Order of the Scribble (minus Soon, oddly enough) and Serini's diary called Dorukan "the new kid" implying that the Order took some time to form. We don't know how long it's been between Soon and Lirian discovering the Rift and that battle, but it may have been it was long enough for them to learn at least of the scale of the danger. Probably from one of the Twelve or an Elven nature deity that Lirian worshipped.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Yeah, I'm more tired than I thought because I usually can think these things through better and don't miss so many details. But I'll try anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Spoiler: SoD
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    I'd say there's no need to overthink it. The Scribblers probably just arrived at the Rift at the same time as a group of armed goblins and things escalated quickly from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler
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    That's not what Redcloak says, though. He says the first bearer was commanded to "seize the Rift" and the crayons shows him leading a war party. Soon's wife fell into that Rift during a picninc while they were in a diplomatic mission to the Elven Lands, so it seems Lirian's Gate/Rift was located deep in Elven territory. So their action was most likely partly defensive. Also, the crayons shows the First Bearer being defeated by the entire Order of the Scribble (minus Soon, oddly enough) and Serini's diary called Dorukan "the new kid" implying that the Order took some time to form. We don't know how long it's been between Soon and Lirian discovering the Rift and that battle, but it may have been it was long enough for them to learn at least of the scale of the danger. Probably from one of the Twelve or an Elven nature deity that Lirian worshipped.
    Spoiler
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    From the timeline Redcloak gives in SoD and the timeline given by Shojo's retelling of the Scribble, the goblin cleric and Soon + Lirian must have discovered the rift around the same time. But I guess they put together the Scribble before the original bearer of the Crimson Mantle set off to seize the rift? Maybe they were researching it when the goblins attacked? I don't know how long any of this took. And it probably won't matter to the story in any case, I was just trying to piece together the series of events.

    Interesting, though, that I now realize The Dark One did not become aware of the other rifts even after learning of the Snarl and studying Lirian's Gate once it was built. I wonder if the Snarl had to eat a goblin cleric specifically for him to notice the rift, someone with a divine connection to him?

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Possible interpretations of 'Dont screw this up';

    This was the first time TDO told Redcloak to keep fighting for the gates. He might have been tempted to settle for Gobbotopia, destroy Xykon and put his feet up. His God didn't want him accepting a silver medal when gold was still an option.

    TDO knew Redcloak would be a *terrible* leader, whose hatred and neuroses would pit Gobbotopia against any nearby human territory and fall victim to the same problems Tarquin faced on the West Continent. While Redcloak was an effective war leader, he wasn't the right goblin to rule peacefully. Getting Redcloak out of Gobbotopia and back on the campaign was the best chance of Gobbotopia surviving indefinitely.

    It's possible both are true.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I think this is pretty reasonable, and it wouldn't even stop TDO from granting Redcloak spells. TDO probably also recognizes that, for better or worse, he's not finding a higher-level cleric who is this committed to the Plan. So it might be "Don't screw this up" in part as "Everything you've cost our people, you'd better get this done."
    Yeah, admittedly the "well if [god] is angry at [cleric/paladin], then why don't they revoke their powers?" argument can only ever give us a binary switch. Good talent is hard to find (has been for the past 5 years, at least in my country), and you're not going to fire your highest-performing employee for the slightest transgression...or even a few significant ones. I wonder what other "tools" the gods have in their toolbox for handling errant clerics or paladins without "firing" them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    TDO knew Redcloak would be a *terrible* leader, whose hatred and neuroses would pit Gobbotopia against any nearby human territory and fall victim to the same problems Tarquin faced on the West Continent. While Redcloak was an effective war leader, he wasn't the right goblin to rule peacefully. Getting Redcloak out of Gobbotopia and back on the campaign was the best chance of Gobbotopia surviving indefinitely.
    I like both of your interpretations but this one is more impactful character-wise for me. Without bringing too much attention to it, that's definitely what's happening in Gobbotopia: complete with a more charismatic and diplomatic leader who might be more palatable to neighboring nations when they hit the negotiating table. And Redcloak doesn't get to live in the better world he created...

    I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there, any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I wonder what other "tools" the gods have in their toolbox for handling errant clerics or paladins without "firing" them.
    I could imagine an OOTS God who can decide to give a cleric different spells than the cleric requested.
    Receiving comprehend language instead of implosion would be a strong sign that you should listen instead of fighting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions



  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    It is an interesting question!

    Just for everyone's refreshment, here's the relevant lines from 1206
    Just as a side note, I loved the implication that The Dark One is just not that "into" Redcloak. And Durkon trying and failing to try to make him feel better about it.

    If you think about it, TDO cares about the artifact Redcloak, not the expendible minion currently wearing it. Where Thor cares about all his followers enough to make them feel good about their personal choices when they died. "You've been Thored!"

    Hazards of following a LE deity instead of a NG one (I assume Thor is NG not CG as usually depicted cause he has LG priests. Being patron of dwarves may have dragged him in Lawful direction in this reality)

    Yeah, admittedly the "well if [god] is angry at [cleric/paladin], then why don't they revoke their powers?" argument can only ever give us a binary switch. Good talent is hard to find (has been for the past 5 years, at least in my country), and you're not going to fire your highest-performing employee for the slightest transgression...or even a few significant ones. I wonder what other "tools" the gods have in their toolbox for handling errant clerics or paladins without "firing" them.
    Traditionally in D&D, you don't grant them the spells they ask for. This can range from "No spells at all" to "a few slots blank" to "I'll give you spells I think you should have instead". All spells for a divine caster are "by permission" of the deity.

    It isn't quite the same thing, but I had a favored soul once who really wasn't a fan of his deity of storms, chaos and destruction. He just wanted to be a healer but an ancestor had lost a bet....well anyway he's stuck with it. His spell list was a negotiation. He had to take 1-2 storm/destructive spells for every wuss cure X or restoration type spell. They were so opposed that stuff inbetween (like a combat buff spell) tended to not make the cut. Being a typical adventurer, his life had enough murderhobo aspects to keep his deity happy even if he'd prefer a quieter life.

    As a GM, I had a player who wanted to follow a god of prophecy and luck, and what we did is I gave him a spell list every day (most of it randomized, maybe 1 or 2 spells though that might be pretty cool in the upcoming day based on what I knew as a GM). He then tried to "prove" his god gave him the perfect spell list "lucky and prophetic", trying to find a use for every spell that day. It was pretty fun, but sadly that campaign didn't last long. It was a 6thish level story arc so the total # of spells wasn't a big job for me.
    Last edited by Seward; 2021-11-09 at 01:59 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    TDO probably also recognizes that, for better or worse, he's not finding a higher-level cleric who is this committed to the Plan. So it might be "Don't screw this up" in part as "Everything you've cost our people, you'd better get this done."

    Then again, according to Jirix, TDO referred to Redcloak as his "true prophet," so maybe he doesn't feel that way.
    Kind of like how Ike felt about General Patton: he's an abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing, but he's my abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    This was the first time TDO told Redcloak to keep fighting for the gates. He might have been tempted to settle for Gobbotopia, destroy Xykon and put his feet up. His God didn't want him accepting a silver medal when gold was still an option.

    TDO knew Redcloak would be a *terrible* leader, whose hatred and neuroses would pit Gobbotopia against any nearby human territory and fall victim to the same problems Tarquin faced on the West Continent. While Redcloak was an effective war leader, he wasn't the right goblin to rule peacefully. Getting Redcloak out of Gobbotopia and back on the campaign was the best chance of Gobbotopia surviving indefinitely.
    Which fits my Ike / General Patton scenario somewhat.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-11-09 at 03:27 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Kind of like how Ike felt about General Patton: he's an abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing, but he's my abrasive, motivated, loose cannon who happens to be really good at this war thing.
    Know that this is a good one.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    However, there's a problem with this.

    3.) Jirix is barely a character.

    Jirix hasn't been seen for about a decade. When he was in the comic, he was a tertiary character in a side-plot. What do we actually know about him? Well, he's probably mid-level, and Xykon considers him fun. He's probably more Chaotic and/or has a higher Charisma stat than Redcloak. That's pretty much it.

    If the Dark One wasn't actually around, it would be another huge twist. It would be another complication that would likely throw the plot in a different direction. It feels... strange to have this sort of thing hinge on the word of a character who's otherwise totally unimportant to the plot. Jirix could be an unreliable narrator, but he hasn't exactly been set up as one. You can do this sort of thing as an author, but I don't think OOTS is the kind of story that pivots on the actions of extremely minor NPCs that briefly appeared ten years ago.
    There is a theory that believe that Jirix and the previous Supreme Leader, who seized the leadership after poisoning royal court, are the same hobgoblin.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Also Hilgya is the perfect counterpoint to that. How long had it been since she last turned up. A lot longer thats for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Also Hilgya is the perfect counterpoint to that. How long had it been since she last turned up. A lot longer thats for sure.
    That's not a really good counterpoint, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Jirix showed up again, but showing up again and getting a bit of extra spotlight is hardly the same thing as literally saving the world and single-handedly solving a major plot thread. Hilgya was a minor asset who turned into a major liability surprisingly fast. The two things are simply not on the same scale.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    That's not a really good counterpoint, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Jirix showed up again, but showing up again and getting a bit of extra spotlight is hardly the same thing as literally saving the world and single-handedly solving a major plot thread. Hilgya was a minor asset who turned into a major liability surprisingly fast. The two things are simply not on the same scale.
    I was responding to the quote snippet, should have gone back and read the context again, i was arguing she was a counterpoint to Jrinx not ever showing up again.

    As an aside Jrinx is effectivlly next in line for the high priest position if anythign happens to RC as well as de facto ruler of Gobotopia. Short of "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" he's going to show up in at least the epilogue. I doubt where going to see Xykon, RC, and the snarl all dealt with at the North Pole and then "so long and thanks for all the fish" as an ending.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Jrinx.
    Man, your autocorrect really hates Jirix.
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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    I doubt where going to see Xykon, RC, and the snarl all dealt with at the North Pole and then "so long and thanks for all the fish" as an ending.
    I too doubt this is going to end with all the worlds dolphins making a flippant remark as they bail out right before Earth is destroyed.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Man, your autocorrect really hates Jirix.
    Nah, in this case it's me spelling it how i remember it. Ughhh. Sorry.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Possible interpretations of 'Dont screw this up';

    This was the first time TDO told Redcloak to keep fighting for the gates. He might have been tempted to settle for Gobbotopia, destroy Xykon and put his feet up. His God didn't want him accepting a silver medal when gold was still an option.

    TDO knew Redcloak would be a *terrible* leader, whose hatred and neuroses would pit Gobbotopia against any nearby human territory and fall victim to the same problems Tarquin faced on the West Continent. While Redcloak was an effective war leader, he wasn't the right goblin to rule peacefully. Getting Redcloak out of Gobbotopia and back on the campaign was the best chance of Gobbotopia surviving indefinitely.

    It's possible both are true.
    But it's also possible that the Dark One wasn't telling him to keep fighting for the gates. It's possible that he was telling him "Now that we've got a stable goblin homeland, which was the ultimate goal all along, the plan's changed. Don't screw it up by continuing with the original plan."

    The ambiguity is what makes it great.
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    But it's also possible that the Dark One wasn't telling him to keep fighting for the gates. It's possible that he was telling him "Now that we've got a stable goblin homeland, which was the ultimate goal all along, the plan's changed. Don't screw it up by continuing with the original plan."

    The ambiguity is what makes it great.
    Except Redcloak was already singularly focused on Gobbotopia at the expense of The Plan, so that meaning doesn't make sense. It only makes sense to remind Redcloak of The Plan, as a note to get his butt in gear after a year of sitting around effectively abandoning The Plan.

    No ambiguity. Just "go after the Gate".
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    But it's also possible that the Dark One wasn't telling him to keep fighting for the gates. It's possible that he was telling him "Now that we've got a stable goblin homeland, which was the ultimate goal all along, the plan's changed. Don't screw it up by continuing with the original plan."

    The ambiguity is what makes it great.
    I too thought that the ambiguity was great (I disagree with Peelee that TDO’s intent was clear), but unfortunately The Giant clarified in the book’s commentary that Redcloak’s god was indeed trying to get him to not screw up the original Plan by making sure he stays focused on the Gates.

    It’s one of the only things Rich has said that I’ve thought makes the story less, rather than more, interesting - keeping TDO’s true position opaque would have been fascinating, and indeed it was (to me) until it was clarified.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: "Don't Screw This Up."

    Jirix did preface it with "a message for you. Regarding the Plan and all..."

    So while I did initially think that TDO was talking about Gobbotopia, I can see why The Giant thought he had been clear enough. These things happen.

    As for the ambiguity, I think TDO's lack of involvment keeps him mysterious enough to be ambiguous.
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