How many Ages would an Empire Age, if Empires Aged through Ages? (AoE 4 Thread)

[warty goblin]

Age of Empires IV is now out, so we should talk about it.

Very, very early impressions. Graphically I really like what they've done. It's going for this sort of watercolor color schema, which works just phenomenally well for me. The fact that computers are now powerful enough to render lots of foliage allows landscapes to actually look like landscapes, with areas of tall grass, flowers, and so on; they also clearly did a huge amount of work in making the landscape variated. This is pretty much the first RTS I've seen where I can look at a map and imagine actually walking through it, which is pretty excellent.

Mechanically it feels quite Age 2, but let's be honest, what else should it feel like? However, it does make some pretty important structural changes. Aging up now requires building a special building, which as far as I can tell is Empire unique, and you get a choice of two at each Age. These offer various benefits, e.g. acting as a mega-barracks or speeding up villager gather rates in a radius. I quite like this, since it allows some tuning of your empire as you play, but because the upgrade is a physical building it plays into the positional strategy of the game. There also seems to be fewer passive economic upgrades, which I also like because +5 to woodchopping speed has never, ever, excited me.

And like all Age of Empires games, I'm awful at it. Which is good, because strategy games that kick me in the teeth are much more engaging than the ones I just win outright. It also keeps that feel of being like 20% citybuilder, which I really like. All combat RTSs are fun and all, but there's something deeply satisfying about building up a base, particularly when it looks this good. And it seems to not have adopted hero units or other such things, thankfully. So far at least I'm really exited by this.

What are everybody else's experiences?

[Rockphed]

Huh, I only saw something about this yesterday. It was not on my radar at all. Not that I particularly have time to play an Age of Empires game. Ah, c'est la vie.

[Lord Raziere]

I've played it less than I would've liked.

for one it keeps popping up messages about my drivers needing to be updated and not having enough processes to do all things it does. haven't experienced any problems of that nature yet though.

and the one game I've tried, with easy computers, they just keep harassing me with troops and have a bunch of townhouses spread across their half of the map while I'm still trying to build up my town. its a bit frustrating. how do they do it so fast? I build defenses and they just get destroyed too fast for me to respond.

I do want to play it more though, it is fun and like AoE2, I'm just rusty and this might be the most difficult one they've made.

[Anteros]

I'm always stuck in a weird place with these types of games where the AI is just laughably bad and easy, but competent players online are too much for me. The AI in this game in particular is exceptionally bad, even on the highest difficulty. Wishing there was some kind of similar strategy game with an actually competent AI.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm always stuck in a weird place with these types of games where the AI is just laughably bad and easy, but competent players online are too much for me. The AI in this game in particular is exceptionally bad, even on the highest difficulty. Wishing there was some kind of similar strategy game with an actually competent AI.

Zero-K? The AI has always been rough for me to beat on hardest (because it blatantly cheats but still.)

[Anteros]

Zero-K? The AI has always been rough for me to beat on hardest (because it blatantly cheats but still.)

Interesting. I'll through it into the queue of games for me to check out. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Tvtyrant]

Interesting. I'll through it into the queue of games for me to check out. Thanks for the recommendation!

There is a sequel in alpha named Beyond All Reason as well, but I haven't played it because they had massive security flaws in the coding.

[Anteros]

Played around a bit as the Holy Roman Empire tonight, but wasn't super impressed. They get an enormous early economic boost, but I don't feel like they really leverage the advantage they get from it well. Their unique infantry unit is basically a glass canon with aoe hits, and you can churn them out incredibly quickly, but unless you're playing the AI or a newbie they're probably not going to be so kind as to clump up around them. A good player will just kite them to death.

So far, nothing really compares to France's early power, or the Mongol's ability to simply kite forever. These 2 civs seem to be the strongest by far, although the Mongols have such a high skill cap that I can't personally take full advantage. I'm sure the other civs all have their strengths too, but I'm just talking about my personal experience.

[warty goblin]

This game lets me station units on walls, which I love. Really gives it that box of toy knights feeling, except that the box has like a zillion knights in it instead of just a couple. I can foresee a lot of fun matches building the most insane defenses possible, just like in Battle for Middle Earth 2, back in the day. I don't think Age 4 is quite that good (BFME 2 is a strong contender for the most fun RTS ever in my book) but it's the first game in a long time to get some of that feeling.

[Anteros]

Anyone who's more familiar with this series than me...what's the multiplier for using additional villagers to build? Does it just double the base speed for each one? Visually it appears there's some diminishing returns.

[Thomas Cardew]

Anyone who's more familiar with this series than me...what's the multiplier for using additional villagers to build? Does it just double the base speed for each one? Visually it appears there's some diminishing returns.

In AoE2, it's construction time= 3t/(n+2), t for base time, n for villagers. I assume aoe4 kept that formula but I don't actually know.

[Anteros]

In AoE2, it's construction time= 3t/(n+2), t for base time, n for villagers. I assume aoe4 kept that formula but I don't actually know.

Thanks. I've always been huge into strategy games, but never civ or AoE specifically. I have pretty good (ok, maybe just average) micro and macro skills, but I miss a lot of things that long time players probably take for granted. The hotkeys in particular have been a huge headache.

[Anteros]

So what's everyone's favorite civs and strats? I've been trying to get the HRE to work for me since I like them aesthetically, but I just can't seem to make them competitive. Mongols on the other hand are great fun. Horse archers are just so much fun to control and raid with.

[Tvtyrant]

China and aggressively building towers in enemy cities.

[Lord Raziere]

I have only managed to win or even play a full game with French against an AI by capturing two sacred sites so.......uuhh.....doing stuff with French I guess? I haven't gotten around to trying the other ones. even on easy, the AI's aggressive. I feel like I'm a passive or slow player compared to whats expected and I should be look for a civ that helps me be defensive until I build up enough to confidently attack in force.

[warty goblin]

I have only managed to win or even play a full game with French against an AI by capturing two sacred sites so.......uuhh.....doing stuff with French I guess? I haven't gotten around to trying the other ones. even on easy, the AI's aggressive. I feel like I'm a passive or slow player compared to whats expected and I should be look for a civ that helps me be defensive until I build up enough to confidently attack in force.

Try the Mountain Pass map, it has a very large mountain range right down the center diagonal, with only a couple passes in the center. The AI is still quite aggressive, but you know which direction they're coming from and can defend it much more easily than on the more open maps. If you can rush build some stone walls up there with some archers, you can develop your economy in peace while constructing ever more fantastic defenses, and either experiment with offensive raids, or hunker down and win via wonder. I did that as the French, and had a nice sideline in chevauchee heavy cavalry raids before settling in to win via Notre Dame.

Also I quite like the French. Heavy cavalry charges are fun, particularly when you catch some archers out of position. They rapidly become... non-archers.

[Anteros]

I have only managed to win or even play a full game with French against an AI by capturing two sacred sites so.......uuhh.....doing stuff with French I guess? I haven't gotten around to trying the other ones. even on easy, the AI's aggressive. I feel like I'm a passive or slow player compared to whats expected and I should be look for a civ that helps me be defensive until I build up enough to confidently attack in force.

Usually one tower is enough to discourage the ai from messing with you until they have siege. Just make sure you're building one at each of your gathering sites that are out of range of your town center and put your peasants in there when they attack. Or wall off if the map allows it, but that's more rare.

What helps me get better (if you care) is turning on the game timer and trying to make sure I hit certain times. Like, I want to be in age 2 by 5 minutes ideally. Faster early game leads to exponential growth for late game.

[Lord Raziere]

Usually one tower is enough to discourage the ai from messing with you until they have siege. Just make sure you're building one at each of your gathering sites that are out of range of your town center and put your peasants in there when they attack. Or wall off if the map allows it, but that's more rare.

What helps me get better (if you care) is turning on the game timer and trying to make sure I hit certain times. Like, I want to be in age 2 by 5 minutes ideally. Faster early game leads to exponential growth for late game.

Yeah I keep making lots of peasants in age 1 and building houses so I might be just slowing myself down. the map won on I picked because I thought water would do what mountains apparently do and keep them from attacking, but they just attacked with ships instead. course by like age III I had a consistent defense up, but it was a bit rocky getting there. I shouldn't even bother with wood walls, should I?

I think I'll try Holy Roman Empire next game.

[Anteros]

Yeah I keep making lots of peasants in age 1 and building houses so I might be just slowing myself down. the map won on I picked because I thought water would do what mountains apparently do and keep them from attacking, but they just attacked with ships instead. course by like age III I had a consistent defense up, but it was a bit rocky getting there. I shouldn't even bother with wood walls, should I?

I think I'll try Holy Roman Empire next game.

Wood walls can be amazing if there are choke points you can wall off. Less so if you have to wall all the way around your base. They're great in multi-player where everyone is always trying to rush you. I don't bother with them against the AI because it doesn't really attack you. It just runs around your base a little, and then runs away when you pile into a tower. A human player would be building rams and ruin your day though.

[Lord Raziere]

Tried Holy Roman Empire, tried turtling, tried mount pass, tried everything I could. but this "Easy" AI is relentless. my mines keeping running out, the one time I went on the offensive with a big army it was cool for about two seconds it it was utterly destroyed then the ai just went on the offensive and making making units in response just seems so slow and all the walls I built just keep getting getting these gaps that destroy the purpose of them. normally in 2 or 3 when I build the big army thats like, a victory or something but this just feels like I'm setting up troops and walls made of paper mache while the enemy somehow has armies out of nowhere. what am I supposed to do against this?

[warty goblin]

If your mines are running out quickly, you might be overbuilding villagers at the expense of military stuff. Do you generally have a lot of resources in the bank? If so, build extra unit production buildings, and start cranking out more units. If you're running out of mines because the match has gone super long, just set everyone to farming, and use the market to sell your absurd food income for what you need.

Also, counter-attack. Building a couple cavalry and using them to attack AI resource points is super useful. Even if you don't destroy the collection point or kill any villagers, the AI is going to send units over there to fight you, which means they aren't attacking your base. Once the enemy shows up, its usually better to retreat, since unsupported cavalry die pretty fast.

Once you get stone walls up, preferably with some towers and zigzagged to allow better concentration of fire, the only real threats are seige engines and elephants. A good number of archers will chew through unprotected infantry or cavalry before your walls can be breached. This means that cavalry (particularly heavy cavalry) are your friend, as you can sortee them against trebuchets or cannons, and they absolutely murder archers trying to suppress your archers, or battering rams. Elephants are problematic though, and you need to make sure your archers have killed the spear dudes before charging them out.

[Anteros]

Are you neglecting to build siege or something? Siege is completely and utterly overpowered in this game. Standing armies basically only exist to protect the siege.

[Anteros]

First major tournament was yesterday and France dominated the picks. Seems like most people agree that they're the top civ by far. English was next, and then a scattering of Mongols.

Game is not balanced yo.

[Lord Raziere]

First major tournament was yesterday and France dominated the picks. Seems like most people agree that they're the top civ by far. English was next, and then a scattering of Mongols.

Game is not balanced yo.

well they intentionally designed France and English as the vanilla easy mode civs to start with, so its no real surprise. to someone casual like me the differences seem slight to but to competitive players its probably like everything or something because they've reached that zone where they know all the details and how to manipulate them.

[Saambell]

So for someone who loved to play AoE2 growing up, but is REALLY bad at RTS games, and never played higher then easy AI in AoE2, is this game even worth it? Is there campaigns vs the AI? or is it all a "practice against AI in skirmish matches, then go online to fight real people" with nothing else? I ask this as someone who barely played campaigns in AoE2, and only really did Co-Op LAN with friends, and never played much higher then Easy AI. The trend for RTS nowadays is really into Ranked and that very much isn't me.

[Lord Raziere]

So for someone who loved to play AoE2 growing up, but is REALLY bad at RTS games, and never played higher then easy AI in AoE2, is this game even worth it? Is there campaigns vs the AI? or is it all a "practice against AI in skirmish matches, then go online to fight real people" with nothing else? I ask this as someone who barely played campaigns in AoE2, and only really did Co-Op LAN with friends, and never played much higher then Easy AI. The trend for RTS nowadays is really into Ranked and that very much isn't me.

there are campaigns there, don't worry. though I would consider this game harder than AoE2. like maybe I'm just too used to Civ 6, but this game doesn't like patience, AI sends the troops after you as soon as it can even on easy so you best be prepared.

[warty goblin]

I've found it if anything slightly easier than Age 2, and I'm definitely bad at it. I haven't hardly touched the campaign - it seems fine in a sort of eye-rolly History Channel special way - but the skirmish is pretty fun. I particularly like that units can be put on stone walls, which makes sieges feel like proper sieges, and cavalry charges are pretty fun too. If you're not into multiplayer though, there's really no reason to jump on the bandwagon early if you're not dying for things to play and/or really interested in the genre. Waiting for a sale is pretty safe.

[Tvtyrant]

I find the walls pretty frustrating, sometimes the AI just polevaults on a wall with no visible way to do so. Bam! Wall is taken.

I do like how strong they are, and how trebuchets behind a wall can just wreck enemy siege equipment.

[Anteros]

You can get the game on gamepass for a dollar if you haven't had gamepass before. Even if you have had gamepass, you can just use a different email.

there are campaigns there, don't worry. though I would consider this game harder than AoE2. like maybe I'm just too used to Civ 6, but this game doesn't like patience, AI sends the troops after you as soon as it can even on easy so you best be prepared.

I really don't understand how you're struggling so much against the easy AI. It barely does anything. It sends a few small groups of unupgraded spearmen at you from time to time, but basically leaves you alone for 20 minutes. You just can't neglect your army entirely when you're building. If your army is bigger than the AIs it will literally never do anything but sit back and wait to die.

Are you spreading your base all over the place instead of keeping it small and defensive? Are you building extra stuff you don't need? Like, there's no reason to queue up 10 houses at the start of the game when you won't be using that population capacity for another 20 minutes. Try to build things slightly before you need them.

Typical early game looks like this: most villagers on food, scout for sheep, maybe one villager on wood and one on gold. Constantly produce villagers. Most go on food, but a few on gold so you can try to hit food and gold requirements for feudal at the same time. Hit feudal at 5ish minutes and start making some military units. Use your scout to watch for enemy advances so you can be ready. Try to gather resources as close to your TC as possible. If a resource is far away from your TC then build a gathering building and a tower next to it.

There's slight variations depending on situation or what civ you're playing, but basically every single start will be something close to that.

[Anteros]

So, looks like a big patch is set to drop on the 15th. They're fixing the mongol tc rush along with other various bug fixes. Hopefully they fix the major bugs with the HRE, Delhi, and Abassid that are holding them back.