The Book of Boba Fett - First Trailer

[Peelee]

Jedi lose people too. They do in fact teach how to deal with it: treasure their life and move on with yours. When the time comes, let them go.

Anakin didn't want to let people go and actively resisted being told he should do that. He wanted to be a jedi without actually following their beliefs, and when the inevitable conflict with that came, he chose not to be a jedi.

Jedi lost other Jedi. The Jedi code literally has "there is no death, there is only the force". That's markedly different from losing your mother, who you sought out after not seeing her in over a decade because you were told to forget her and it she didn't matter anymore. And he had to make this choice as a child before he could even understand the weight of it.

Spoiler

Show

Luke is giving Grogu the exact same choice that Qui Gonn have Anakin in TPM. How is this not translating?

[Keltest]

Its translating just fine. What im trying to say (and can hopefully communicate more clearly now that im at home) is that this isnt a choice forced upon people by the Jedi as a test of loyalty or anything like that, its literally a fundamental decision they have to make: what do they value? The Jedi have a certain, specific set of values. The Mandalorian Way is another, different set of values. The Sith philosophy is yet another set of values. Sometimes its asked more explicitly than other times, but at the end of the day what the Jedi want you to decide is what your values are. Anakin's values were such that he was unable to live as a Jedi. It wasnt making that decision that caused him to fall, every single person ever has to make this decision. What caused him to fall is what he chose.

[Mechalich]

Its translating just fine. What im trying to say (and can hopefully communicate more clearly now that im at home) is that this isnt a choice forced upon people by the Jedi as a test of loyalty or anything like that, its literally a fundamental decision they have to make: what do they value? The Jedi have a certain, specific set of values. The Mandalorian Way is another, different set of values. The Sith philosophy is yet another set of values. Sometimes its asked more explicitly than other times, but at the end of the day what the Jedi want you to decide is what your values are. Anakin's values were such that he was unable to live as a Jedi. It wasnt making that decision that caused him to fall, every single person ever has to make this decision. What caused him to fall is what he chose.

Except it absolutely is possible to be both a Mandalorian and a Jedi. In fact, Din Djarin is currently carrying around the physical evidence of this truth (the one major missed opportunity in the most recent episode is that he didn't bring up the Darksaber to Ahsoka). The choice Luke is foisting onto to Grogu is false. Now, Luke doesn't know this and in fact has very strong reasons to believe he's doing the right thing, and Grogu legitimately may not want to be a Jedi regardless, but we the audience know Luke's wrong and that's a tough sell.

The 'no attachments' rule was an error. It was a policy mistake the Jedi made. There is irrefutable canonical evidence that virtuous Jedi can both form attachments and choose to put the greater good above those attachments when necessary. Rebels - which again was made by the same guy as Book of Boba Fett - includes two examples of Jedi doing exactly that, and in the case of Kanan Jarrus, putting this to the test in the most absolute way possible (and this made it into the movies too, since Kanan's voice was among those who spoke to Rey in TRoS). Now, there are a variety of good in-universe reasons for why the Jedi Order, as it existed from the 1000 to 19 BBY, made this a policy (the reasons provided in Legends were more comprehensive, but the overall thrust is roughly the same either way), but it was always the wrong policy.

Luke, in perpetuating this failed policy, is repeating a mistake. This makes sense, especially considering how the ST looms over the timeline and demands his failure, but it sucks to watch. The sequels did Luke dirty and now, being obligated to respect those events, the rest of the post-RotJ Disney canon has to reinforce that pattern.

[Peelee]

Its translating just fine. What im trying to say (and can hopefully communicate more clearly now that im at home) is that this isnt a choice forced upon people by the Jedi as a test of loyalty or anything like that, its literally a fundamental decision they have to make: what do they value? The Jedi have a certain, specific set of values. The Mandalorian Way is another, different set of values. The Sith philosophy is yet another set of values. Sometimes its asked more explicitly than other times, but at the end of the day what the Jedi want you to decide is what your values are. Anakin's values were such that he was unable to live as a Jedi. It wasnt making that decision that caused him to fall, every single person ever has to make this decision. What caused him to fall is what he chose.

It's not, though. And it was never even presented as such until the prequels (which were poorly written, and this is likely a result of said poor writing).

Kenobi tells Luke his father was a Jedi Knight, and doesn't present a Jedi having a child as anything notable. Kenobi said his father wanted him to have the lightsaber when he was old enough (truth of this statement aside, a fathers' lightsaber is one heck of an emotional item that violates "the Jedi's certain, specific set of values" all over the place). The Emperor tells Luke that his faith in his friends is his weakness. This is coming from the bad guy, and hey, is also proven wrong just a few minutes later. Leia runs to Tatooine to search for Kenobi because of the relationship he had with her father, and hey, he immediately accepts. Neither Kenobi nor Yoda tell Luke to shun his attachments, to boot. They try to prevent him from saving his friends, but that is because it is an obvious trap that he is not prepared for, not because they are emotional attachments that should be forsaken.

Prequels hit, and hey, suddenly its Monkey Monkenstein and the Monktastic Monks, who for some reason dress like desert farmers and also are not allowed to have emotions.

Spoiler

Show

And, again, Luke is not asking Grogu what he values. Even if he is (he isn't), it's a crazy question anyway, since Grogu is a toddler. Or, hey, because there's been some contention here, let's push that back to a kindergartner. Doesn't really matter, because Grogu is a child. Incapable of making such life-altering decisions on his own. You know what he values? Blue cookies. Asking him to choose between being a Jedi and a Mandalorian is insane. And that is what is being asked. Not what eh values. He is being told to choose a side, right then and there. If he picks the lightsaber, he cuts all ties with the Mandalorian and anyone else in his past. Sucks for them. If he picks the armor, he most likely won't ever see Luke again - he'll certainly be kicked off the planet and won't get any more instruction. It's not a value choice. It's a complete failure of teaching. He could be taught and trained to have compassion and understanding and emotional health. But that's not what's being offered. What's being offered is to completely cut out of his life one of two people. It's straight up an ******* move. It's pure insanity. And frankly, it kind of makes sense for this to be the kind of person Luke is to lead into who he is in the sequel trilogy, but I don't have to like it, and I'm still going to call it what it is.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler

Show

....the War of the Bounty Hunters does not exactly put them on good terms the last time they interacted.

That's a comic book thing, right? I'm not familiar with that story, what happened?

Nothing explicitly stated, no, but the "now" intent is pretty clear.

"Now-ish" I'd cheekly say, The choice seems to be, advance to the next stage of your training with the lightsaber or leave with your adoptive father to become a mandalorian. I expect Luke to give him the time to think about it even if he's obviously not going to wait eternally, like he said, an instant for Grogu can be a lifetime for someone else.

He's also right that Mandalorian and Jedi ethos are incompatible: The Madalorian creed emphasizes strength where the Jedi look for wisdom, the Mandalorian exalt solidarity to your clan where the Jedi want universal compassion, a Mandalorian's way of life is violence while a Jedi never uses the Force to attack.

We know of one dude, a thousand years ago who is remembered as both Mandalorian and Jedi, but we have no idea how well he maintained that balance in practice, if he did at all. "Revan was both Jedi and Sith" is a true statement but it leaves out that he was those in succession, never both at a time.

[Clertar]

More Doylist reasoning Grogu is as much a hit as Din Djarin, if not more, so Lucasfilm want to keep him around. Especially considering that Grogu comes free of behind-the-scenes drama, unlike Pedro Pascal.

However, it's not sustainable to keep Luke Skywalker around once they committed to not recasting, what with a body double and very serious de-ageing for Hamill. The ideal solution is finding a plot reason to un-deliver Grogu from Luke and back to the Mandalorian.* Who knows, maybe after The Mandalorian season 3 he'll be sent to Asohka for some more Force training.

Maybe the unexpected assistance that famously Jedi-jaded Asohka is lending Luke with the rustic Jedi school in the last episode is so that the school can appear in the Disney+ SW-verse without needing Luke Skywalker appearing with it.



*We might get future seasons of The Mandalorian where the titular character is not Din Djarin, but Grogu.

[Fyraltari]

More Doylist reasoning: Grogu is as much a hit as Din Djarin, if not more, so Lucasfilm want to keep him around. Especially considering that Grogu comes free of behind-the-scenes drama, unlike Pedro Pascal.

Did something happen?

However, it's not sustainable to keep Luke Skywalker around once they committed to not recasting, what with a body double and very serious de-ageing for Hamill. The ideal solution is finding a plot reason to un-deliver Grogu from Luke and back to the Mandalorian.*

This also allows for Grogu surviving the eventual destruction of Luke's school.

Maybe the unexpected assistance that famously Jedi-jaded Asohka is lending Luke with the rustic Jedi school in the last episode is so that the school can appear in the Disney+ SW-verse without needing Luke Skywalker appearing with it.

That'd make sense.

*We might get future seasons of The Mandalorian where the titular character is not Din Djarin but Grogu

Doubt it, cute as it is, that pupetts has serious limitations. Can't see it carry an action scene.

[Sapphire Guard]

The no attachments rule is more or less irrelevant.

Palpatine has no difficulty manipulating attached people, he does it all the time. Plenty of Jedi with attachments fall just fine (arguably, more of them than the 'no attachments' Jedi.) Having attachments doesn't protect you from falling (they don't necessarily doom you to falling either). Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

The Mandalorians had no 'no attachment' rule and stayed out of Republic politics and the war, the big things the fandom blames the Jedi fall for. It didn't matter, they were massacred regardless.

The attachments rule is overblown by the fandom because they find it unpalatable, Anakin's fall is a complicated tragedy of errors that is not caused by any one thing.

It's also the easiest thing for Star Wars creators to write. 'Complain about the no attachments rule' is something they keep coming back to, be it prequel era, sequel era, or even high republic era. As long as they keep complaining about the 'no attachments' rule, they never have to come up with their own ideas. They never have to present a 'new and improved' Jedi order, because if they do that, they have to come up with new ideas that stand up to scrutiny, and then as the timeline moves forward the need to write new stories will inevitably cause more Jedi to fall, attachments or not.

As it stands, the few efforts to present 'new and improved' Jedi amount to Ahsoka and Rey, who are very similar to the old Jedi but have different coloured lightsabres. Ahsoka supposedly has a different ideology, but when they try to put that into practice you end up with

Spoiler: TCW Season 7

Show

'Jedi aren't supposed to be soldiers or meddle in politics, now give me a Republic Army so I can lead it into battle to meddle in Mandalorian politics.

So we're basically back to 'different coloured lightsabre'.

Obi Wan withholding the whole truth is hardly out of character, and there's nothing wrong with a religious order looking like a religious order.

[Cikomyr2]

I am going to sidestep the whole debate, and now go back to talking about one thing that gave me chill during the episode

Spoiler: The Man in Black

Show

I'll have to admit, I hated Cad Bane when he first appeared.

Actually, no that's no true. Cad Bane is a ****ing dope character that I absolutely love. I hated the environment in which he appeared.

The man has been custom designed to evoke the "Man in Black" villain archetype from classic Western movie, and his first appearance was a heist in a superadvanced urban environment. Wtf?! The thematic clashes was absolutely horrenderous to me.

However, Cad Bane on Tatooine, slowly walking across the desert... Holy **** that gave me chills. If Cad Bane had been created to be in *one* moment, it was that scene and no other. His visual design, his gauntiness, the way he talks, the way he walks.

The second the Marshall spotted him I knew he was bad news, and that the Marshall was completely out matched. And that's BEFORE I recognized him as Cad Bane (that took me about 5 seconds more).

And when I knew it was Cad Bane, I was genuinely afraid this would be the Marshall's last scene. So happy his Deputy decided to take the bullet blaster bolt.

Spoiler: Let's Have Fun

Show

Cad shot the Sheriff..
But he didn't leave the Deputy..

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: The Man in Black

Show

I'll have to admit, I hated Cad Bane when he first appeared.

Actually, no that's no true. Cad Bane is a ****ing dope character that I absolutely love. I hated the environment in which he appeared.

The man has been custom designed to evoke the "Man in Black" villain archetype from classic Western movie

Spoiler

Show

He's "Angel Eyes"/Sentenzia from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to echo Boba fett's "The Man With No Name"/Manco from the same trilogy of movies. Now, we just need a Tuco stand-in.

[Cikomyr2]

The best shot of that character, ever.

You can't top that. He was created in 2009, and it took that long to put him exactly where he would be at his best narratively.

Spoiler: The Best Shot

Show

[Peelee]

Did something happen?

Fett left Dengar stranded on an ice floe.

Fett disintigrated Bossk's legs (they'll grow back), and tied him up to a rock in a blizzard (Bossk is cold-blooded) and left him as a warning to other bounty hunters who might want to try to go after Fett.

The no attachments rule is more or less irrelevant.

Palpatine has no difficulty manipulating attached people, he does it all the time. Plenty of Jedi with attachments fall just fine (arguably, more of them than the 'no attachments' Jedi.) Having attachments doesn't protect you from falling (they don't necessarily doom you to falling either). Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

The Mandalorians had no 'no attachment' rule and stayed out of Republic politics and the war, the big things the fandom blames the Jedi fall for. It didn't matter, they were massacred regardless.

The attachments rule is overblown by the fandom because they find it unpalatable, Anakin's fall is a complicated tragedy of errors that is not caused by any one thing.

It's also the easiest thing for Star Wars creators to write. 'Complain about the no attachments rule' is something they keep coming back to, be it prequel era, sequel era, or even high republic era. As long as they keep complaining about the 'no attachments' rule, they never have to come up with their own ideas. They never have to present a 'new and improved' Jedi order, because if they do that, they have to come up with new ideas that stand up to scrutiny, and then as the timeline moves forward the need to write new stories will inevitably cause more Jedi to fall, attachments or not.

As it stands, the few efforts to present 'new and improved' Jedi amount to Ahsoka and Rey, who are very similar to the old Jedi but have different coloured lightsabres. Ahsoka supposedly has a different ideology, but when they try to put that into practice you end up with

Spoiler: TCW Season 7

Show

'Jedi aren't supposed to be soldiers or meddle in politics, now give me a Republic Army so I can lead it into battle to meddle in Mandalorian politics.

So we're basically back to 'different coloured lightsabre'.

Obi Wan withholding the whole truth is hardly out of character, and there's nothing wrong with a religious order looking like a religious order.

That's a whole lot of words for not much meaning. The Jedi in the OT and the Jedi in the PT were very different organizations. Lucas went back and changed everything when he wrote the prequels, and that's what we ended up with. I have no qualms about complaining about this.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

Spoiler

Show

Though, I gotta say, I'm a bit underwhelmed by Bane's look here. His face looks fake. I wonder if the thenpaler skin is meant to signify old age? Like white air but for duros?

Spoiler: Pale Rider

Show

Exactly my reaction. Bane’s face looked terrible. It’s also very clear that they were trying to minimize the actor’s nose, which isn’t a concern for the animated version, but makes the live-action version look even worse by comparison.

It was great to see him, and he was perfect for the moment, but gawd he looked awful.

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

Spoiler

Show

Also looks like he's lost his flying boots.

Spoiler: Boots

Show

The boots are probably for tactical emergencies, rather than long-distance transportation. It’s been a while since I’ve watched Clone Wars, but I only recall him using the boots in very limited circumstances—jetting out of a corridor, etc. They can’t have much fuel, unlike the Mando jetpacks, which seem to allow for longer flight times.

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2

Spoiler

Show

The second the Marshall spotted him I knew he was bad news, and that the Marshall was completely out matched. And that's BEFORE I recognized him as Cad Bane (that took me about 5 seconds more).

And when I knew it was Cad Bane, I was genuinely afraid this would be the Marshall's last scene.

All of this.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: Boots

Show

The boots are probably for tactical emergencies, rather than long-distance transportation. It’s been a while since I’ve watched Clone Wars, but I only recall him using the boots in very limited circumstances—jetting out of a corridor, etc. They can’t have much fuel, unlike the Mando jetpacks, which seem to allow for longer flight times.

Nah, we get a clear shot of his feet and he's wearing normal soles, with no fancy apparatus. Probably for the actor's ease of movement.

[Cikomyr2]

Nah, we get a clear shot of his feet and he's wearing normal soles, with no fancy apparatus. Probably for the actor's ease of movement.

The actor having the right walk and demeanor is so much more important than respect to a technical detail like that.

[Fyraltari]

The actor having the right walk and demeanor is so much more important than respect to a technical detail like that.

Of course, that wasn't a complain.

[Cikomyr2]

Of course, that wasn't a complain.

I didn't take it as one. I wanted to further justify your point. No worries matey ^_^

[Fyraltari]

Fett left Dengar stranded on an ice floe.

Fett disintigrated Bossk's legs (they'll grow back), and tied him up to a rock in a blizzard (Bossk is cold-blooded) and left him as a warning to other bounty hunters who might want to try to go after Fett.

Spoiler: Pictured : an awkward moment

Show

[Peelee]

Spoiler: Pictured : an awkward moment

Show

This was between ESB and RotJ, actually. More or less the last interactions they would have had with Fett before he went into the Sarlacc.

[Fyraltari]

This was between ESB and RotJ, actually. More or less the last interactions they would have had with Fett before he went into the Sarlacc.

You telling me he didn't spend six months enjoying his double pay in a booze-filled haze in Jabba's palace? Unacceptable.

Edit: Also, I wonder why Bane didn't show up for the Falcon hunt if he was still practising at the time.

[Wintermoot]

You telling me he didn't spend six months enjoying his double pay in a booze-filled haze in Jabba's palace? Unacceptable.

Edit: Also, I wonder why Bane didn't show up for the Falcon hunt if he was still practising at the time.

Be careful what you ask for. George Lucas might go add him to it with CGI for his next special edition.

[Fyraltari]

Be careful what you ask for. George Lucas might go add him to it with CGI for his next special edition.

Can't. He sold the rights, remember?

[Wintermoot]

Can't. He sold the rights, remember?

What George Lucas gets up to in his own basement is his own business. Special Edition Seventy-Six coming up!

[Cikomyr2]

You telling me he didn't spend six months enjoying his double pay in a booze-filled haze in Jabba's palace? Unacceptable.

Edit: Also, I wonder why Bane didn't show up for the Falcon hunt if he was still practising at the time.

He was a Separatist agent so maybe he still has an active warrant for his arrest by Imperial authority

Pure speculation tho

[Fyraltari]

He was a Separatist agent so maybe he still has an active warrant for his arrest by Imperial authority

Pure speculation tho

Boba Fett blew up a military ship and escaped prison during the same period. Cad was a useful agent for Sidious, one who could kill Jedi Knights. I'm sure Palps would have him pardonned for his usefulness.

I'm expecting a book or something to come out in the near future about what Bane was doing under the Empire.

[Dire_Flumph]

He was a Separatist agent so maybe he still has an active warrant for his arrest by Imperial authority

Pure speculation tho

Not sure he was really a Separatist agent, he did at least a couple of jobs for Sidious directly.

Doesn't mean he didn't do something else to get an Imperial bounty on his head. More likely he just wasn't in the area when the call went out.

Edit:

I'm expecting a book or something to come out in the near future about what Bane was doing under the Empire.

Wouldn't surprise me, but so much of what I love of Bane is the voice work. Not sure how interesting he'd be on the page.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
Not sure he was really a Separatist agent, he did at least a couple of jobs for Sidious directly.

He was in command of a Separatist warship at one point, and the distinction between “Separatist agent” and “Sidious’ agent” is wafer-thin anyhow. Safe to say he was willing to work for all sides.

[Cikomyr2]

He directly organised and led operations for the Separatist leadership, attacked the senate. Definetly acted as more than just a gun for hire.

Probably the kind who decided to fly under the radar and find some syndicate to protect him once the Separatists collapsed

[Mechalich]

Any absence by a character like Cad Bane from some portion of the timeline can easily be explained by doing a stint in prison. All of the big time bounty hunters occasionally get captured and put away for a while, which nicely wraps up any patchiness to their availability.

[Taevyr]

The one thing that has me scratching my head is that Bane's gotta be in his 70's or something by now, but I guess Duro will just have long lifespans from now on. Can't recall any lore on that, so it's an easy retcon.

That's or there's something added to the air in those breathing tubes.