The Book of Boba Fett - First Trailer

[Peelee]

KOTOR 2 doesnt name them, but Mira specifically calls out that its how they fueled their galaxy-conquering war mar machine. Obviously as of the time of the games they dont have any because their forces were crushed by Revan and neither EU really deals with a period of time in which they try something like that again, but it explicitly happened.

And yes, Canderous does leave the second part as subtext, mostly. Though there are a couple of times on Taris and in conversation where he complains about the lack of anybody giving him a real fight up until he joins you.

ETA: Cathar was basically wiped out by the Mandalorians, with 90% of the population being killed simply to make a point. Canderous also specifically calls out that they were intentionally doing this in order to try and provoke the Republic into fully mobilizing against them.

People think we war out of spite, or bloodlust. They don't understand, and fear that.

We only wanted the challenge of the battle, and glory from it – win or lose. And we lost.

I don't particularly enjoy wiping out worlds for its own sake, but the cowardly tactics the Republic defenders used left us little choice.

Hiding in the homes of civilians. Using families as shields. Thinking we would not use appropriate force on their bases inside major cities.

They underestimated our resolve and what measures are acceptable in war. Those who cannot defend themselves should not be around those who can in battle.

It was what we had wanted all along, in a way. We wanted to fight the best in a battle that would be remembered for centuries. And we did.

And Revan won.

Those who hadn't fled earlier were left with nothing to call their own: no weapons, no armor… only the honor of having fought in the battle we just lost.

For many this was not enough. While the rest of us were sent into exile on the Outer Rim, they tried to relive the old days – raiding worlds. They're nothing more than bandits now.

These are not nice people. They are savage attackers and brutal warriors. But they have reason for their fights, and when there is no reason, then they are referred to as simple bandits, not Mandalorians.

Canderous complains of the lack of challenge because that's why they fight. He openly laments being reduced to working as a mercenary, because he doesn't [I]want/I] to use his skills on the weak. Misunderstanding that is misunderstanding his entire character, and he's not shy about talking about who he is.

Your claim of "the weak are target practice" is very much your own invention.

[Keltest]

These are not nice people. They are savage attackers and brutal warriors. But they have reason for their fights, and when there is no reason, then they are referred to as simple bandits, not Mandalorians.

Canderous complains of the lack of challenge because that's why they fight. He openly laments being reduced to working as a mercenary, because he doesn't [I]want/I] to use his skills on the weak. Misunderstanding that is misunderstanding his entire character, and he's not shy about talking about who he is.

Your claim of "the weak are target practice" is very much your own invention.

Canderous glorifies his culture, because of course he does, its his culture. But when you read between the lines, and when you look at what honor means to the Mandalorians... The Neo-crusaders killed for the sake of killing. They used violence to instigate more violence. Conflict was the ends, not the means, and Carth is pretty quick to point this out to Canderous if they happen to be together in the same room for a while.

As much as he says they didnt war out of bloodlust, he sure goes all out to describe how the Mandalorians wanted the greatest, most historic conflict they had ever seen. And when you look at how many cultures and planets they trampled to get that far... Its clear that Canderous is trying to justify their actions by blaming the Republic for "forcing" them to do these things.

[Fyraltari]

Ultimately, Mandalorian culture is based on violence, this isn't a very healthy foundation for a society.

Regardless of Canderous's own moral fiber, one has to wonder what happens when the Mandalorians take over a planet. I have a hard time seeing them ruling it in the best interests of the population. Like, are they going to build hospitals and art centers and whatnot? Or they going to try and ramp up its industrial output as much as possible to fuel their warmachine, consequences be damned?

In the latter optic, using the population as slave labour makes sense, after all, the Mandalorians never claimed to care for the wellfare of anybody else, and if they don't like it all they have to do is to rise up and give the Mandos a fight. Because that's what's important isn't, it? Fighting. If somebody does not or cannot defend themselves, then on some level they deserve what they're getting.

And the Mandos left to occupy probably aren't happy about being there, away from the frontlines. What glory is there to patrol the streets of a pacified world or to oversee a factory? "My cousin's away fighting Jedi, and what do I get? Guard duty." This does not help with treating the locals well, especially once you realize that if you're tyrannical enough, they might revolt and earn you some glory which might make your superiors send you back to the frontlines.

[Sapphire Guard]

"We want the challenge. But not the challenge of the enemy doing cowardly tactics, that's too much of a challenge. We want the challenge of the enemy fighting on our terms in the way that gives us the advantage."

[MCerberus]

It should be noted that the entire Old Republic era is Legends and that there have already been changes introduced from Clone Wars cgi going forward. So are grey Jedi for that matter, and the Rogues, and I guess every single part of the EU people liked.

[Fyraltari]

It should be noted that the entire Old Republic era is Legends and that there have already been changes introduced from Clone Wars cgi going forward. So are grey Jedi for that matter, and the Rogues, and I guess every single part of the EU people liked.

So's every part of the old EU, except Tje Clone Wars, that is the idea, yes.

[Thrudd]

Spoiler: Up & Away

Show

I don’t know the canonical explanation, but when Mars lost its oceans, they evaporated into space. Something similar might have happened on Tatooine.

That said, Mars lost its atmo before its oceans, which would be the wrong sequence for what we see on Tatooine, so there may well be another mechanism at work here.

Spoiler: ocean loss

Show

Seeing as Tatooine is a Dune/Arrakis analogue, and how the Sarlaac played into the vision sequence, I wonder if the writers are equating the Sarlaac with sand worms and trying to indicate that they are the cause of the planet's lack of moisture. Of course, Dune's ecology and sandworm biology doesn't completely fit with science, either, but it does explain how the oceans dried up without losing the magnetosphere and atmosphere. Maybe Sarlaacs are an invasive species that caused massive environmental changes in a short time, explaining why Tuskens still have a cultural memory of the planet having oceans (and there apparently still being some dried up trees and plant life about). The hallucinogenic lizards might impart Force memories of the way in which the lifeforms on this planet are connected with its environment. That whole vision sequence was also reminiscent of Paul's Water of Life sequence from the '84 Dune film, iirc. So maybe Boba is going to be the savior of Tatooine, uniting Tuskens and helping them take back control of Tatooine from the Hutts and other crimelords while also figuring out how to start restoring moisture.

Spoiler: Boba's plan

Show

As of right now, Boba seems like he has no idea what he's doing, so I'm guessing he has some trick up his sleeve. He claimed leadership of a cartel by murdering the former leader, but seems to only have three loyal followers so far. Calling yourself a daimyo doesn't mean anything unless you've got a warband big enough to threaten people into accepting your leadership. He does not seem to have any economic leverage, either- what resources does he control that would convince anyone to do business with him? The mayor is obviously unconcerned and unthreatened. Bib Fortuna had likely already lost control of everything significant, probably being little more than a neighborhood-scale crime boss, content to pose as something bigger than he was due to the prestige of the domicile he had inherited. Boba Fett is probably going to need the fighting power of the Tusken tribes. All his enemies will be caught by surprise when he suddenly reveals that he has an army of Tuskens with blasters and speeders and gaffi stick martial arts capable of defeating even the most highly skilled bounty hunters (like him!). I'm guessing the only reason he came back to Tatooine at all was out of loyalty to his new family, trying to create a better world for them (or possibly to get revenge for them and make sure that others don't suffer the same fate, if we find out that one of the syndicates has killed his adopted tribe in a flashback).

[Peelee]

Canderous glorifies his culture, because of course he does, its his culture. But when you read between the lines, and when you look at what honor means to the Mandalorians... The Neo-crusaders killed for the sake of killing. They used violence to instigate more violence. Conflict was the ends, not the means, and Carth is pretty quick to point this out to Canderous if they happen to be together in the same room for a while.

As much as he says they didnt war out of bloodlust, he sure goes all out to describe how the Mandalorians wanted the greatest, most historic conflict they had ever seen. And when you look at how many cultures and planets they trampled to get that far... Its clear that Canderous is trying to justify their actions by blaming the Republic for "forcing" them to do these things.

Canderous openly admits that they were trying to goad the Republic into fighting. And he also talks about how Mandalorians as they existed will likely not suffice and the culture will change, along with other missions about their past. Suffice it to say that what you think is clear and what I think is clear from CNderous are not the same thing.

Regardless, though, if we get back to the original point, I'm still waiting on an answer to my question - can you tell me which worlds were Mandalorian slave worlds, and which sources talk about how commonplace it was for Mandalorians to adopt the best from these slave worlds into their families?

[Clertar]

I've caught up with the two first episodes. A lot better than I expected!

I liked how, after the norotiously lame and sloppy movie Boba Fett was retconned as a badass fighter in The Mandalorian, in this series he was retconned again: Boba Fett was a lame fighter, and when he showed up as a badass fighter in The Mandalorian that's because he had trained with a Tusken sensei after the events of RotJ.

[Fyraltari]

I've caught up with the two first episodes. A lot better than I expected!

I liked how, after the norotiously lame and sloppy movie Boba Fett was retconned as a badass fighter in The Mandalorian, in this series he was retconned again: Boba Fett was a lame fighter, and when he showed up as a badass fighter in The Mandalorian that's because he had trained with a Tusken sensei after the events of RotJ.

This show never says Boba was a lame fighter, what are you talking about? EU Boba was always shown as a good fighter regardless of reboot, he's already pretty good as a tween in The Clone Wars.

[Clertar]

This show never says Boba was a lame fighter, what are you talking about? EU Boba was always shown as a good fighter regardless of reboot, he's already pretty good as a tween in The Clone Wars.

I mean...

Spoiler

Show

The Boba Fett we saw in The Mandalorian would have kicked ass instead of getting his ass kicked. His Disney+ series explains the skill gap in a neat way.

[Fyraltari]

I mean...

Spoiler

Show

The Boba Fett we saw in The Mandalorian would have kicked ass instead of getting his ass kicked. His Disney+ series explains the skill gap in a neat way.

Yes, I said EU Boba Fett, not movie Boba Fett. But this series doesn't show Boba Fett as being weak before being trained in gaffi-stick fighting. He beats up the guard dog, stands his ground with an unfamiliar weapon for a while against the best fighter of the clan and kills the sand-monster while being severely dehydrated, axid burnt, starved and beaten up in the first episode. The man's already a killing machine.

[Peelee]

Movie Boba Fett immediately found the target that a space wizard couldn't, and then collected two different bounties on that target. I wouldn't call that "lame".

[Fyraltari]

Movie Boba Fett immediately found the target that a space wizard couldn't, and then collected two different bounties on that target. I wouldn't call that "lame".

We're talking fighting skills, though.

[Peelee]

We're talking fighting skills, though.

He was taken out by pure luck. Anyone can be taken out by pure luck.

[Cikomyr2]

He was taken out by pure luck. Anyone can be taken out by pure luck.

In my experience there's no such thing as luck

Boba was defeated through the Force, by a Jedi and his allies who can literally weave fate.

So yhea, Jabba's most impressive Fighter on the field got taken out by a "lucky shot"

[BloodSquirrel]

In my experience there's no such thing as luck

Boba was defeated through the Force, by a Jedi and his allies who can literally weave fate.

So yhea, Jabba's most impressive Fighter on the field got taken out by a "lucky shot"

I mean... let's be real here, the stuntwork, choreography, and special effects in RotJ are of course going to be dated by modern standards (even against a well-produced TV show), so characters are going to come across as less impressive in general.

But what really happened here is that Boba Fett got hit in the back -twice- because he was focusing on trying to take out a Jedi, which isn't an easy thing to do, and he lost his primary weapon to a lightsaber right at the start of the fight. That's hardly a "chump" showing.

[Peelee]

In my experience there's no such thing as luck

Boba was defeated through the Force, by a Jedi and his allies who can literally weave fate.

So yhea, Jabba's most impressive Fighter on the field got taken out by a "lucky shot"

A.) A Jedi has powers that non-Jedi don't.
2.) I really hate the idea of "the will of the Force". Regardless, Han can't weave fate.
III.) Even if he can, that only serves to strengthen to idea that movie Fett was not lame. When fate itself conspires against you, what hope do you have?

[ecarden]

A.)2.) I really hate the idea of "the will of the Force". Regardless, Han can't weave fate.
III.) Even if he can, that only serves to strengthen to idea that movie Fett was not lame. When fate itself conspires against you, what hope do you have?

I agree on this, but I will say that this is a place where the prequels screwed up. In the original sequence, a space wizard people couldn't have anticipated with unknown powers, turns up, turns the situation to total crap and in the confusion, Boba gets knocked into the pit. Not great, but definitely not something he could really predict, or control.

But then in the prequels...Boba was at the Battle of Geonosis and should have as good a grasp as any non-Jedi on their abilities, which makes the plan of 'execute Luke by dropping him in a monster's mouth,' a ridiculous one.

[The Glyphstone]

Boba was also, like, 1210 years old at Geonosis. Since he was unmodified, he's going to be looking at and remembering them as a 1210 year old would. I dont remember him doing that much fighting, at least, it was all Jango.

[ecarden]

Boba was also, like, 1210 years old at Geonosis. Since he was unmodified, he's going to be looking at and remembering them as a 1210 year old would. I dont remember him doing that much fighting, at least, it was all Jango.

Yeah, but he should remember that Jedi can jump like no one's freaking business. And then the clone wars went out of its way to make things worse by having him be an active bounty hunter during this period. Basic knowledge of Jedi abilities ought to be something he definitely has and nothing Luke does is out of the ordinary for a Jedi, which retrospectively makes Boba (and Jabba, who's also in Clone Wars and should understand Jedi abilities) look pretty dumb.

This is just a casualty of the compressed timeframe between the prequels and the original trilogy and the desire to bring in/explain everything they could.

[Peelee]

I agree on this, but I will say that this is a place where the prequels screwed up.

I'm of the opinion that the entire prequel trilogy is a place where they screwed up.

[Cikomyr2]

I'm of the opinion that the entire prequel trilogy is a place where they screwed up.

Them be fighting words :-P

[Sapphire Guard]

How can we blame the prequels for something that happened in ROTJ?

[ecarden]

How can we blame the prequels for something that happened in ROTJ?

Because until the prequels, the expectation that Boba, like Han, knew basically nothing about the Jedi, who were this legendary thing. Making them a major part of his backstory makes it much worse that he was taken by surprise by a Jedi's actions.

[Peelee]

Them be fighting words :-P

It's dangerous to fight me - I'd try spinning, that's a good trick.

Meanwhile, Lucas could help train you - which, of course, would involve nothing more than him saying "faster and more intense" any time you did anything.

Besides, would it really be a fight or would it just be us trying to hit something like two feet away from us instead of actually trying to hit each other?

I can go all day, just FYI.

[Keltest]

Because until the prequels, the expectation that Boba, like Han, knew basically nothing about the Jedi, who were this legendary thing. Making them a major part of his backstory makes it much worse that he was taken by surprise by a Jedi's actions.

I mean, as was noted, he was 10, and they all got killed by clones with guns. Its not remotely implausible that in the 20+ years since AotC he has forgotten or otherwise stopped caring about the Jedi and their abilities.

Besides which, the Jedi being a major thing as recently as a generation or two ago was established all the way back in the original movie.

[Peelee]

I mean, as was noted, he was 10, and they all got killed by clones with guns. Its not remotely implausible that in the 20+ years since AotC he has forgotten or otherwise stopped caring about the Jedi and their abilities.

Especially since apparently the entire rest of the galaxy did.

[ecarden]

I mean, as was noted, he was 10, and they all got killed by clones with guns. Its not remotely implausible that in the 20+ years since AotC he has forgotten or otherwise stopped caring about the Jedi and their abilities.

Besides which, the Jedi being a major thing as recently as a generation or two ago was established all the way back in the original movie.

I mean, it's pretty implausible to me that he forgot the basic abilities of the people who chopped his father's head off in front of him, attempted to assassinate and then was arrested by, only to have his chance for revenge lost when they're all killed by the newly created empire...

ETA: On the timing issue, it's partly timeframe being shorter than expected (see all jokes about how fast Obi Wan ages in the desert), but even more than that, it's scale of the Jedi and the documentation that had to exist about them makes stuff like Han's reaction real weird. I assume there's a heavily detailed explanation somewhere in the EU about how the empire suppressed all knowledge of the Jedi, except propaganda about their evil and so Han discounted the propaganda and assumed they were nothing, but, meh.

[Clertar]

Well guys, of course OT Boba Fett was a decent fighter in canon. At least above Stormtrooper level. In my qualification of his martial prowess I was taking that for granted. You could also say that Yamcha is a lame fighter in-universe, right? Even if he could beat literally most people in the universe without breaking a sweat. That's because, in the category of Dragon Ball fighters, he was routinely outclassed; even in his introduction he only managed to beat Goku because he was on the verge of passing out from hunger.

Back to Boba Fett, I don't mean to criticize the movies or the show. I just enjoyed how his series addressed something that made me raise my eyebrow in The Mandalorian S02: how Boba Fett showed up and he was beating people up left and right like no other non-Force user has done in SW, in sharp contrast with his appearences in the OT. There, he is shown to be a very competent bounty hunter, but not a fighter, sporting only long-range weapons, and relying on traps rather than beating up his bounties into submission like other bounty hunters, such as Mando. His cunning and strategic thinking is also shown prominently in his series, mind you.

No doubt the writing room of The Book of Boba Fett perceived this, because otherwise they wouldn't have addressed it very clearly in the series, what with montages showing him becoming competent at Tusken martial arts through flashbacks---they would have shown him already with Mando S02 fighting levels out of the box.