Eternals, the movie that doesn't end

[Tyndmyr]

Some accountant somewhere probably calculated that the added concessions from breaks here didn't compensate for the missing showtime and they got axed. Such a calculus naturally also disregards disabled people, neurodivergent people, people with small children and other such groups who might have difficulty sitting through a 2.5+ hour movie in one stretch.

Eh, the most popular runtime length is 90-100 minutes, and most don't diverge too far from that.

2.5 hour movies are an aberration in general, and adding an intermission to that would drive it further from the norm. Most films are just better served by being cut down to a more manageable size.

[Psyren]

Eh, the most popular runtime length is 90-100 minutes, and most don't diverge too far from that.

2.5 hour movies are an aberration in general, and adding an intermission to that would drive it further from the norm. Most films are just better served by being cut down to a more manageable size.

I think the MCU averages at 120+. From phases 1-3 the only ones under 2 hours IIRC are Thor, Incredible Hulk, Ant-Man 1&2 and Dr. Strange. Doesn't seem to be hurting them.

I don't disagree that 2.5 is less common, but when they know they'll get the box office regardless they don't have to leave a bunch of scenes on the cutting room floor just to maximize showtimes. These are films people show up for on Wednesday night.

[Palanan]

Eternals is available on Disney+ as of today, so I gave it a try.



Achingly bad. It’s beyond tedious; it’s grindingly slow, strangely disjointed, frequently confusing.

After the first thirty minutes I was just…bored. I forced myself to watch another thirty minutes, up to the pompous reveal of the utterly ridiculous “true mission.”

The main problem is I just don’t care about these people. Apart from Sersei, they don’t have a thimble of personality among them, and the opening “romance” felt utterly flat. There is zero chemistry between Sersei and Ikaris, and their relationship feels shallow and empty.

There are too many characters, too much lore, and the entire story feels like it doesn’t really belong in the MCU. This would have been much better as an eight-episode series on Disney+. That would have given them time to develop each of the characters, not to mention the cosmic backstory, and maybe some actual plot.

As it is, the draggy moodiness and underlying absurdity just don’t compel me to continue. I'm abundantly grateful I didn't spend money on this at the theater.

[Thrudd]

Eternals is available on Disney+ as of today, so I gave it a try.



Achingly bad. It’s beyond tedious; it’s grindingly slow, strangely disjointed, frequently confusing.

After the first thirty minutes I was just…bored. I forced myself to watch another thirty minutes, up to the pompous reveal of the utterly ridiculous “true mission.”

The main problem is I just don’t care about these people. Apart from Sersei, they don’t have a thimble of personality among them, and the opening “romance” felt utterly flat. There is zero chemistry between Sersei and Ikaris, and their relationship feels shallow and empty.

There are too many characters, too much lore, and the entire story feels like it doesn’t really belong in the MCU. This would have been much better as an eight-episode series on Disney+. That would have given them time to develop each of the characters, not to mention the cosmic backstory, and maybe some actual plot.

As it is, the draggy moodiness and underlying absurdity just don’t compel me to continue. I'm abundantly grateful I didn't spend money on this at the theater.

I agree. Not a good one. It really does seem like it wanted to be a ten hour show, possibly more than one season, that had to be compressed into 2.5 hours - except they chose to keep a bunch of disparate "character moments" and minor conflicts instead of keeping the parts that moved the story along a major plotline.

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They should have picked two of the characters - probably Sersei and Ikaris - and really focused on their relationship and ideological differences relating to the core mission, instead of trying to give personality, emotional moments, motivations and mini-conflicts for six (seven?) other people, as well as wasting run time setting up a completely random connection to Dane Whitman that doesn't have any relevance to the present plot- he belonged only in a post credits scene. I felt that the state of affairs presented in the flashbacks needed their own flashbacks to explain why these characters were doing what they were doing. It made no sense why Thena's remembering of "past lives" caused her to go berserk and attack her friends/family, or why no one else was similarly affected by having thousands of years of memories.
There seemed to be two major conflicts, one of which needed to be dropped or held off for another movie. Either go with the internal strife angle, with the Eternals fighting one another over whether or not to let the Celestial be born, or the conflict with the power-absorbing deviant that is killing them off and getting smarter and stronger. Probably go with the deviant first, and at the end have it reveal that it was created by the Celestials, which also created the Eternals, and that it was sent to replace them for phase two of the mission, the coming birth (which they never knew about). Then in the second movie, with a much reduced cast (because most of them were killed by the deviant), the time of the birth is drawing near, and they must struggle with having been lied to about their nature and whether or not to continue helping the Celestials. This is where Ikaris chooses the Celestial and Sersei chooses Earth and they battle it out, and it is a much more emotional situation for the viewers because we've had a whole film to establish their characters and relationship.

[GloatingSwine]

The main problem is I just don’t care about these people. Apart from Sersei, they don’t have a thimble of personality among them, and the opening “romance” felt utterly flat. There is zero chemistry between Sersei and Ikaris, and their relationship feels shallow and empty.

I dunno, at least three of them have the personality of "mardy bellend" (Druig, Sprite and Ikarus). And the two that actually do have anything about them that might have been worth watching a movie for are killed off before the plot has got its trousers on yet (Gilgamesh) or just kinda get bored of being in the movie and leave (Kingo).

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It made no sense why Thena's remembering of "past lives" caused her to go berserk and attack her friends/family, or why no one else was similarly affected by having thousands of years of memories.

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She has memories of previous planets they've exploded, none of the others do.

Otherwise I basically agree with you, there were way to many conflicts and none of them carried weight or emotional catharsis because everyone was either unpleasant or boring to watch.

I wanted the Deviant to win. Even though it wasn't even ****ing relevant to the main stakes of the movie.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I dunno, at least three of them have the personality of "mardy bellend"

Of what now?

[Lord Raziere]

Of what now?

Yeah, I looked up that name on both tvtropes and google and got no straight answers, I'm just as confused as you are.

[JadedDM]

I believe it's British slang. Mardy means mopey or sullen. Bellend means...well, let's say 'jerk.'

[Lord Raziere]

I believe it's British slang. Mardy means mopey or sullen. Bellend means...well, let's say 'jerk.'

Oh. huh. sounds like a name such as "Marty Belland" or something, thought it was some obscure actor they didn't like.

[Clertar]

Oh. huh. sounds like a name such as "Marty Belland" or something, thought it was some obscure actor they didn't like.

Or some dude in Boyd Crowder's gang, in Justified.

[Delicious Taffy]

Boy, y'all are really sellin' me on this movie. Haven't seen an audience reaction this bad since Thor 2.

[Clertar]

Boy, y'all are really sellin' me on this movie. Haven't seen an audience reaction this bad since Thor 2.

Fwiw, I really liked it, and look forward to watching it again once it goes to streaming. I would put it above both Black Widow and Shang Chi in terms of 2021 MCU films.

But my taste in movies is not always aligned with mainstream blockbuster audiences, and with Eternals I'm well aware that I am in the minority :)

[theNater]

Boy, y'all are really sellin' me on this movie. Haven't seen an audience reaction this bad since Thor 2.

It's a lot bigger and slower than other Marvel movies. It worked for me, but I can see how it wouldn't work for everybody. I felt it improved on second viewing, but I realize that's no use to people who can't manage to get through it once.

Fwiw, I really liked it, and look forward to watching it again once it goes to streaming.

I don't know what your streaming set-up is, but it hit Disney+ in the US a few days ago.

[GloatingSwine]

It's a lot bigger and slower than other Marvel movies. It worked for me, but I can see how it wouldn't work for everybody. I felt it improved on second viewing, but I realize that's no use to people who can't manage to get through it once.

Part of the problem is that it's slower without actually using that slowness to any profit. It doesn't actually stop to linger on character relationships, which is why the Sersei/Ikarus conflict doesn't lan, why we dont sympathise with Sprite complaining that she can't age, etc.

Compare Dune. Dune was a slow movie, it covered way less events than Eternals. But it used every moment of screen time to establish something about its world, a character, or the relationship between characters.

And it's "big" but paradoxically also small without ever being personal or intimate, it's got this grand sweep of history, but only ever small conflicts with like one or two Deviants at a time, and again it doesn't connect closely enough with the characters to ever give us an intimate view of their emotional lives.

You know what it is? It's Star Trek: The Motionless Picture of the MCU.

[theNater]

...we dont sympathise with Sprite complaining that she can't age

I was decidedly able to empathise with Sprite, having also wanted things that seem to come easily for others but may be always out of reach for me. But I recognize that I am meeting the movie more than halfway on that.

In the broader strokes, I suspect anybody who's learned that a system they're a part of is vastly more harmful than they knew it to be might find something familiar in the film.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by theNater
It's a lot bigger and slower than other Marvel movies. It worked for me, but I can see how it wouldn't work for everybody. I felt it improved on second viewing, but I realize that's no use to people who can't manage to get through it once.

I can’t even force myself to finish it.

As GS notes, it’s slow to no real purpose. Long, moody shots of people standing around. In most cases they’re not even especially impressive shots in terms of composition, lighting, anything.

I’m barely halfway through, and already there’s a numbly repetitive pattern:

Spoiler: Rinse & Repeat

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Moody, low-key character interaction.

Then we’re attacked! By a cheesy CGI monster! Let’s respond by going to see one former friend, and having a moody and introspective interlude.

We’re attacked again! By more cheesy CGI monsters! Let’s respond by going to see another former friend, and having an even moodier and more introspective interlude.

Then let’s mix it up by raising our starship from the ground (destroying a priceless World Heritage site in the process) and having yet more moody and introspective interludes.

Spoiler: Makkari

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And was Makkari just sitting in the starship underground for five hundred years?!

If she has a thing for Druig, wouldn’t she want to, I dunno, go find him?

To say nothing of the clunky opening titles packed with cosmic lore that directly conflicts with everything the MCU has told us so far.

Unless someone can promise me that it suddenly becomes outstanding in the last hour of runtime, I’m not seeing a reason to go back to this. It won’t just be the first MCU movie I’ve never finished; it’s the first movie of any genre that I haven’t finished in longer than I can recall.

More reason than ever to be looking forward to BP2. And I’ll probably skip anything else by this director.

[theNater]

I can’t even force myself to finish it.

As GS notes, it’s slow to no real purpose. Long, moody shots of people standing around. In most cases they’re not even especially impressive shots in terms of composition, lighting, anything.

I’m barely halfway through, and already there’s a numbly repetitive pattern:

Spoiler: Rinse & Repeat

Show

Moody, low-key character interaction.

Then we’re attacked! By a cheesy CGI monster! Let’s respond by going to see one former friend, and having a moody and introspective interlude.

We’re attacked again! By more cheesy CGI monsters! Let’s respond by going to see another former friend, and having an even moodier and more introspective interlude.

Then let’s mix it up by raising our starship from the ground (destroying a priceless World Heritage site in the process) and having yet more moody and introspective interludes.

To say nothing of the clunky opening titles packed with cosmic lore that directly conflicts with everything the MCU has told us so far.

Unless someone can promise me that it suddenly becomes outstanding in the last hour of runtime, I’m not seeing a reason to go back to this. It won’t just be the first MCU movie I’ve never finished; it’s the first movie of any genre that I haven’t finished in longer than I can recall.

In general, I think it's safe to say that by the 45 minute mark one has a pretty good sense of what one is in for, and anybody who's not into it can safely bail satisfied that they've given it a fair shot.

In your particular case, I think you're within 10 minutes of the last big reveal, which might make you go "wait, what?" and become more interested or make you go "oh, **** that!" and want to break your viewing device. (Or it may affect you not at all). I don't know if that's an interesting gamble to you, but now you know it's available.

Spoiler: Makkari

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And was Makkari just sitting in the starship underground for five hundred years?!

Spoiler: Makkari

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She's been using it as a home base, but she has things newer than 500 years old, so she hasn't just been sitting there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by theNater
In your particular case, I think you're within 10 minutes of the last big reveal….

Thanks. I have a feeling it has something to do with Ikaris, so why not.

Originally Posted by theNater
I was decidedly able to empathise with Sprite, having also wanted things that seem to come easily for others but may be always out of reach for me. But I recognize that I am meeting the movie more than halfway on that.

Sprite’s character raises a lot of questions, and there don’t seem to be any sensible answers.

Spoiler: I Mean, Why?

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If you’re building immortal guardian synthetic people, why give them longings and desires that will only interfere with their mission performance? And if the character must have these longings, for some unknown reason, why make them so difficult to fulfill? It seems tremendously contrived, and there’s no good reason for any of it that I can see.

If the intention is to help them blend in, then why not just create Sprite as an adult like the others and be done with it? What possible rationale can there be for designing one operative to be physically and socially weaker than the others, and perpetually angst-ridden to boot?

[GloatingSwine]

I was decidedly able to empathise with Sprite, having also wanted things that seem to come easily for others but may be always out of reach for me. But I recognize that I am meeting the movie more than halfway on that.

In the broader strokes, I suspect anybody who's learned that a system they're a part of is vastly more harmful than they knew it to be might find something familiar in the film.

Trouble is in the film we've never actually seen an example of her suffering because of it. Hell, the only time we see something related to her age she was being treated as older than her appearance (by the guy in the club at the start) and was uncomfortable with it. This is not a good suggestion that later on she will wish she could age, when we have only seen her be uncomfortable with the idea of being treated as an adult in an adult environment.

Unless someone can promise me that it suddenly becomes outstanding in the last hour of runtime, I’m not seeing a reason to go back to this. It won’t just be the first MCU movie I’ve never finished; it’s the first movie of any genre that I haven’t finished in longer than I can recall.

It does not. In fact at one point Kingo goes to do something far more interesting than be in this movie and we all wish we could have followed him.

[ecarden]

Trouble is in the film we've never actually seen an example of her suffering because of it. Hell, the only time we see something related to her age she was being treated as older than her appearance (by the guy in the club at the start) and was uncomfortable with it. This is not a good suggestion that later on she will wish she could age, when we have only seen her be uncomfortable with the idea of being treated as an adult in an adult environment.

My read on that scene was the exact opposite, namely that she was enjoying being treated as an adult, until the man she was talking to touched her and was in the process of discovering it was an illusion, so it drove home the 'even her powers don't let her join adult society,' message. Though they don't do a great job of making the costs real clear.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by theNater
…I think you're within 10 minutes of the last big reveal….

Wait, that was supposed to be a big reveal?

Spoiler: Really?!

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Ooo, the twist! Ikaris killed Ajak! In the library with a candlestick! In Alaska with the Deviants!

And then the Deviants got magic powers and…evolved themselves? And meanwhile Ikaris has another moody introspective scene?

And then a big emotional confrontation between characters I don’t really know and couldn’t care less about. And then more moody introspection.

Yeah, frack this.

Originally Posted by ecarden
My read on that scene was the exact opposite, namely that she was enjoying being treated as an adult, until the man she was talking to touched her and was in the process of discovering it was an illusion….

This is how I read it as well. Sprite was enjoying the exchange, but the guy tried to touch her hand and reached through the illusion. She covered for it, but that conversation was over.

It does raise the question of where Sprite thought the conversation was going. She’s been on Earth for seven thousand years, she should understand human behavior.

The entire scenario is highly contrived, and simply doesn’t make sense.

Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
Trouble is in the film we've never actually seen an example of her suffering because of it.

This is one of many, many character details that, if we must have it, could have been developed in detail through the course of a Disney+ series.

And it could have been a better-than-average Disney+ series, at least when compared to this year’s crop. A superhero melodrama could have been another interesting side take on the MCU, alongside the goofy shenanigans of Hawkeye and the sitcom weirdness of Wandavision.

As a standalone movie, it just collapses from its lugubrious pacing and grandiose pretensions.

[theNater]

Sprite’s character raises a lot of questions, and there don’t seem to be any sensible answers.

Spoiler: I Mean, Why?

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If you’re building immortal guardian synthetic people, why give them longings and desires that will only interfere with their mission performance? And if the character must have these longings, for some unknown reason, why make them so difficult to fulfill? It seems tremendously contrived, and there’s no good reason for any of it that I can see.

If the intention is to help them blend in, then why not just create Sprite as an adult like the others and be done with it? What possible rationale can there be for designing one operative to be physically and socially weaker than the others, and perpetually angst-ridden to boot?

Spoiler: Why

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Note that the Eternal's mission carries an inherent contradiction: they have to like intelligent beings enough to be devoted to protecting them, but not so much that they try to stop an emergence. That's an impossibly fine line to walk, especially given that the intelligent beings will vary from world to world, but the Eternals won't. So the Eternals are built with some variety.

Since you won't be finishing, I don't mind telling you that Sprite joins Ikaris for the final confrontation; those longings and desires keep her on-mission(from the Celestials' point of view) longer than Sersi and Phastos, who fit better in human society.

[Palanan]

Spoiler: The Why of Sprite

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I see where you’re coming from, but it’s a strange design philosophy. If you’re building synthetic guardians, you can simply instill mission-appropriate imperatives without the bother of messy, contradictory emotions.

If a certain set of behaviors is critical for mission success—e.g. supporting the “loyal” guardian when the others go rogue—I’d think it would be better to have an underlying imperative kick in, rather than trusting to the vagaries of a teen crush, or whatever that is.

My only real question now is, given the movie itself, are the end-credit scenes worth skipping ahead to watch?

[Clertar]

Spoiler: The Why of Sprite

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I see where you’re coming from, but it’s a strange design philosophy. If you’re building synthetic guardians, you can simply instill mission-appropriate imperatives without the bother of messy, contradictory emotions.

If a certain set of behaviors is critical for mission success—e.g. supporting the “loyal” guardian when the others go rogue—I’d think it would be better to have an underlying imperative kick in, rather than trusting to the vagaries of a teen crush, or whatever that is.

My only real question now is, given the movie itself, are the end-credit scenes worth skipping ahead to watch?

Both have ramifications beyond Eternals, but your milleage may vary.

Imho the last action scene is some of the best we've seen in the MCU, specifically using a speedster. But again, I really liked the movie.

[theNater]

Spoiler: The Why of Sprite

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I see where you’re coming from, but it’s a strange design philosophy. If you’re building synthetic guardians, you can simply instill mission-appropriate imperatives without the bother of messy, contradictory emotions.

If a certain set of behaviors is critical for mission success—e.g. supporting the “loyal” guardian when the others go rogue—I’d think it would be better to have an underlying imperative kick in, rather than trusting to the vagaries of a teen crush, or whatever that is.

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But you don't know in advance which, if any, of your guardians are going to go rogue. If you pre-designate one as "loyal" and that one goes rogue, you've lost the entire team.

[Palanan]

Well, color me underwhelmed.

Spoiler: End Credits 1

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This was just silly.

Pip and Starfox, more characters I don’t know and don’t care about.

Spoiler: End Credits 2

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And clearly this is a reference to some comic and/or upcoming movie that I’ve never heard of.

Who was the voice behind him?

As for Sprite and loyalty:

Spoiler: Design Parameters

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Why not make them all immutably loyal?

If you’re building synthetic guardians who need to stay on task, why give them emotions or free will at all? Give them the ability to mimic the basics of human behavior if you must, but always governed by mission priorities, with the ability to override any time they stray off-task.

That seems much more sensible and reliable than imbuing them with the flighty impulses of a species you’re planning to exterminate anyway. If borning a new member of your own species is that important to you, I’d think you’d want guardians who can be relied on without any margin for error.

I realize this is tied into the “Earth humans are special” motif, which annoys the frack out of me, but I just can’t buy the design approach here.

[Talakeal]

Spoiler: End Credits 2

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And clearly this is a reference to some comic and/or upcoming movie that I’ve never heard of.

Who was the voice behind him?

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Blade.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

In your particular case, I think you're within 10 minutes of the last big reveal, which might make you go "wait, what?" and become more interested or make you go "oh, **** that!" and want to break your viewing device. (Or it may affect you not at all). I don't know if that's an interesting gamble to you, but now you know it's available.

Or you can do what I did, and read through the TVTropes page instead.

Spoiler: End Credits 2

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And clearly this is a reference to some comic and/or upcoming movie that I’ve never heard of.

Who was the voice behind him?

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It’s Blade.

[theNater]

Spoiler: Design Parameters

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...I’d think you’d want guardians who can be relied on without any margin for error.

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You would! But the Celestials, being fallible, cannot make things with no margin for error. There is always some chance that some unforeseen circumstance will screw up anything they build. So it's a question of minimizing margin of error.

Suppose you're going to deploy three devices to a task. One can't get it done, two can do it inefficiently, and all three will do it smoothly. If you build them identically in a way that fails in 5% of conditions, you will succeed 95% of the time.

If you build them differently, such that each fails in 10% of conditions, but in different conditions from each other, you will succeed 96.7% of the time.

You get better overall results by having distinct, more error-prone devices than identical, less error-prone ones.

Keep in mind that these Eternals were not custom-built for Earth. They successfully oversaw the births of many, many Celestials before, and gave no indication that they would fail to do so on Earth.

[Thales]

Watched it with some family. Not too impressed. I really liked the aesthetic, and it didn't do a bad job handling such a gigantic cast, shallow as they ended up being.

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We were most disappointed in the handling of the power-absorbing Deviant. All that buildup around it, its motivations, it absorbing the humanity and memories and personality of the Eternals it ate... And then it gets dispatched in a few seconds by Thena.

Personally, I was really hoping it would be key to the resolution. The Eternals want to link their power, channel it all into one of them to supercharge that person's power to stop Tiamut from destroying the world. The bracelets weren't good enough. What if instead of the entirely unforeshadowed assist from Tiamut, they turn to the local entity capable of combining their powers? The one who explicitly doesn't want the world destroyed? Have the Eternals all sacrifice themselves to the super-Deviant, merging into one gestalt entity that can draw on all their powers and channel them all together to supercharge either the sleep or transmute ones. With all that Eternal influence, the super-Deviant would also become less of a mindless predator and more positively inclined towards humans. Have its shapeshifting maybe converge in giving it the body (i.e. the actor) of one of the Eternals, at least most of the time.

Now you have a new character, keeping the Deviant's aggression and predator-of-predators aspect, but keeping the Eternals' tendency towards stewardship. Ajak and Gilgamesh aren't entirely gone now either; they're part of the gestalt too. This way, a major plotline isn't essentially dropped, Marvel can more easily use the Eternals in the future by making them not require so many actors, and the resolution ties stuff together better without relying on kind of a deus ex machina.