New to AD&D 1E - I have a question regarding AC

[Raelag]

Not sure if this is the correct forum to ask this, you guys were among the first results in my google search.

I'm trying to start an AD&D game as a DM for my daughter, brother and nephew. I've never played much D&D before (a bit of 3d edition only some time ago). I've noticed that the AD&D books are harder to understand then the 3'd edition. Heads up, my question may be stupid.

Did I do this correctly:

I've built the PCs and for my nephew we've made a cleric.
He had 120g so I bought for him a Bladed Mail, a mace and a medium shield.
The cleric has 16 on Dexterity (he had some high rolls on his character so I could set a high dexterity, wisdom and strength) .

Is it correct that it has an AC of 1? 4 from Bladed Mail -2 dexterity bonus and -1 from shield?

I've also noticed that on some guides I see a weapon and shield proficiency (but I think this is AD&D 2E? someone please correct me here) this would give an extra 1 AC to a total of 0 AC?

This seems like an unbalanced AC for a starting character. A skeleton needs 19 or 20 to hit and I think zombies need like 18+ or 16+. This being the main monsters I was using in the first mission.

The cleric ended up being the tank and the fights boring.

My other question is regarding the magic user.

It does not have that many first level spells and no cantrips, what does the magic user do in combat in the early fights? I don't want my daughter to lose interest and she wants to play as a magic user.

[Khedrac]

Going from Memory AC3 for Banded mail and shield looks correct so with a Dex bonus of -2 that would be AC1 - a good AC.

And low-level magic users did
...
very little. This is why demi-human multiclass magic-users were popular.
About the best you can do is get a load of daggers and throw some.

[thorr-kan]

Going from Memory AC3 for Banded mail and shield looks correct so with a Dex bonus of -2 that would be AC1 - a good AC.

And low-level magic users did
...
very little. This is why demi-human multiclass magic-users were popular.
About the best you can do is get a load of daggers and throw some.

Low-level magic-users also held the torch, lit the oil for the thief to throw, provided sage advice, and watched the party's rear in combat to prevent someone from sneaking up on the party.

[Xervous]

Though I’ve regrettably not had the joy of playing in a pre WotC D&D system I’m still well aware of the fact that classes in these systems are highly specialized. Being close to the wargaming origin of D&D the MU is effectively artillery. Either you go big with a reality warping spell or you shoot a crossbow/throw darts. Fighters and to a lesser extent clerics are durable murder blenders on the frontline. When it comes to combat they are going to be the stars so long as the MU decides to not end the combat with 1-2 spells. Clerics are expected to heal, rogues are expected to address traps that the party isn’t clever enough to circumvent via RP. The fighter / cleric / MU / rogue party is the standard well rounded party that can efficiently manage expected hazards and has enough wiggle room to stomach unexpected upsets. The classes don’t exist to provide well rounded statistics for interacting with the whole game, they are specialists that handle one or a few facets of adventuring.

Fighters are durable, reliable, and highly efficient at dealing with combat that doesn’t shut them out with a gimmick they weren’t prepared for. Short of spells, nothing is going to upstage a fighter in killing potential.

Clerics have a smattering of useful spells on top their more critical healing functions. Part of the reason you are seeing the cleric be so durable is because that’s how the game scales longevity. HP restoration is far, far more limited than 3.5, 4 or 5e. While being low on HP in any of the WotC D&Ds is a concern, merely getting hit in AD&D is a tangible depletion of your limited resources. And iirc the default in some TSR D&Ds is death at 0 hp.

Wizard spells in these older editions are potentially free wins on various hazards. But you only get so many. Ideally you don’t want to throw a spell at something the fighter could mince up safely, or the rogue could easily bypass. But maybe it saves the cleric so much healing to fireball these goblins. Maybe the fighter doesn’t have an answer in his golf bag of weapons to the flying demon. Maybe the trap is deemed too risky for the rogue to engage with.

Circling back around to a summary: class functions are very specialized. Some classes are expected to sit back (at a safe distance) mechanically contributing 5% while other classes contribute 95% in certain types of scenes. The party as a whole may be capable, but in isolation each class is somewhat to rather narrow. It’s just the way the system is. If your daughter wants to play a magic user who uses magic often you’re either looking at making house rules or picking another system.

Super short: classes are more like single function tools than the multi tools that a typical fantasy character might be thought of.

[D+1]

I've built the PCs and for my nephew we've made a cleric.
He had 120g so I bought for him a Bladed Mail, a mace and a medium shield.
The cleric has 16 on Dexterity (he had some high rolls on his character so I could set a high dexterity, wisdom and strength) .

Is it correct that it has an AC of 1? 4 from Bladed Mail -2 dexterity bonus and -1 from shield?

Correct.

This seems like an unbalanced AC for a starting character. A skeleton needs 19 or 20 to hit and I think zombies need like 18+ or 16+. This being the main monsters I was using in the first mission.

Well, a 1HD skeleton needs an 18 to hit AC1, a 2HD zombie needs 15, so you're a little off there. But if that still seems like it's hard for monsters to hit, that's correct and proper. If it makes him the tank - so be it. 1E is not trying to restrict certain roles to certain classes. I mean, yes, you normally expect the fighter to be the tank since they usually start with a bit more money, complete freedom of weapon choice, more hit points, etc. But Clerics are second only to fighters in terms of physical fighting capability - ESPECIALLY at low levels. And if a cleric is busy FIGHTING, they're not quite as able to cast spells. But don't worry about it. It sounds like things are working as intended. People sometimes think clerics are TOO powerful because they can have any armor, still have reasonable weapons, second best hit points, second best attack table, AND get to cast spells on top of all that.

The cleric ended up being the tank and the fights boring.

Remember, however, all it would take is a couple lucky hits and that cleric is DEAD - or at least unconscious and bleeding AND incapacitated for the next week even if someone pours a healing potion down his throat and he gets all his hit points back.

It does not have that many first level spells and no cantrips, what does the magic user do in combat in the early fights? I don't want my daughter to lose interest and she wants to play as a magic user.

1E puts magic-users in a fairly tough position at the start, and slow to improve. Generally, the best thing to do is simply whatever you CAN do, even if it isn't much. But if the PC's start to find scrolls, they can use those. Wands are especially desirable for a magic-user in 1E (at ANY level) because unlike spells a wand can't be interrupted. Meanwhile they can throw a few daggers, carry some of the treasure and equipment, hold torches, help search areas, draw the map, help solve puzzles... whatever they can do, they do. That is just how it is in 1E for Magic-users. They are weak to start out. But they catch up and eventually dominate a lot of the game with the number and power of spells that they get - IF they survive.

[Mordar]

Boy do I miss those days!

Nope AC1 isn't "broken" by any stretch of the imagination. Good defense is a key element for fighters and clerics. Like others mentioned, 1 or 2 hits and even a fighter or cleric can be down.

Cleric tank isn't unheard of...especially at early levels. What is the third character (cleric, magic-user and...)?

Recommend the magic-user get some darts. Also, I believe Unearthed Arcana introduced cantrips for AD&D...see if you can run that down. That'll give the MU some more options. Some sleep poison, scrolls, wand of magic missiles...those might be useful things to find in an early adventure.

- M

[Witty Username]

That sounds about right, as I recall that at low level a hit from a skeleton could be a scary amount of damage for a cleric and healing will take days so high AC is part of what makes you able to have multiple encounters a day.

[LibraryOgre]

How did I miss this?

I've built the PCs and for my nephew we've made a cleric.
He had 120g so I bought for him a Bladed Mail, a mace and a medium shield.
The cleric has 16 on Dexterity (he had some high rolls on his character so I could set a high dexterity, wisdom and strength) .

Is it correct that it has an AC of 1? 4 from Bladed Mail -2 dexterity bonus and -1 from shield?

Banded Mail, not Bladed, but that is correct.

I've also noticed that on some guides I see a weapon and shield proficiency (but I think this is AD&D 2E? someone please correct me here) this would give an extra 1 AC to a total of 0 AC?

That is correct.

This seems like an unbalanced AC for a starting character. A skeleton needs 19 or 20 to hit and I think zombies need like 18+ or 16+. This being the main monsters I was using in the first mission.

It is very stout, but it's within the range of starting ACs, yes. Clerics and Fighters are bricks.

One trick is to start using things that deal well with armor... giving some of those skeletons two-handed swords gives them a +2 against the banded mail and shield combo, which helps (p. 38 of the Player's Handbook; for these purposes, you ignore dexterity and any magical enhancements). However, this can also open another can of worms and make things more complicated.

With skeletons and zombies, you're not going to have a ton of tactics going on, though you might try having them overbear him... rather than just punching, they grab onto him and try to drag him down.

The cleric ended up being the tank and the fights boring.

It does not have that many first level spells and no cantrips, what does the magic user do in combat in the early fights? I don't want my daughter to lose interest and she wants to play as a magic user.

BTB? Not a lot. Gygax had this idea that sucking at level 1, but being awesome at level 9, was a good balance. I heartily disagree.

If you are using weapon proficiencies, steer her towards the dagger, instead of the staff; thrown daggers make useful weapons, even if you're squishy. If you're not using weapon proficiencies, then get her a ton of darts, so she can throw things, or maybe some sort of simple wand... a wand of magic missile with 50 charges isn't too cool at low level, but lets her throw 1d4+1 damage every time, rather than just hold a torch.

Another good option for a low-level wizard? Tons of scrolls. No one else can use them, and they give her something to do, and can raise her profile a bit... she may not be able to CAST Knock or something, but she can certainly use a scroll of it.

[deljzc]

To survive 1st level in AD&D you don't WANT to ever get hit. HP are such limited and hard to get back resource.

I mean, if your magic-user gets hit at 1st level in the old days, you died. And every magic-user had the Sleep spell because that was insanely powerful back then. A huge ability to control a big or scary encounter but it was always "when do we use it" decision by the party.

Sometimes 1st level is very controlled. Find one or two encounters, get some XP and retreat back to safety. Rinse/repeat until everyone gets that 2nd hit die to roll and hopefully get your main guys in double digit HP's.

You don't really do the "adventure" as the DM seems to think until your party is level 2.

Level 2 is (from what I remember), where the fun starts. You still have to protect your Magic User (we always put him in the middle surrounded by protectors), but normally you can control encounters a bit better and not always be afraid of one hit death.

[Mutazoia]

Keep in mind that 1st and 2nd Ed were different animals than 3.X and beyond. In the earlier TSR editions, fighting wasn't always the solution to encounters. 1st Ed had a gold = XP mechanic so if you could bypass a fight (or find a good sneaky way to win without fighting) and still got some treasure, you would still level up. This encouraged players to do more than just kick in the door and start slaying. You were squishy enough that that was usually a bad idea in a lot of situations anyway. This is why flasks of oil were popular equipment choices.

For your daughter, scrolls and wands are going to be her best friends at lower levels. A wand of Magic Missiles is a MUs pride and joy. Eventually, she's going to want to get her hands on a decent staff (Staff of Wizardry FTW), and a Ring of Spell Storing if possible.

[Telok]

Low level AD&D wizarding isn't about doing damage every round. Its about being generally useful (get some hunting dogs or henchies if you're really desperate for combat damage) untill its your time to shine. Even just holding a bullseye lantern for the non-infravision races in a dark cave fight can be good, especially if you can do one in each hand & face enemies that take penalties in bright light.

A wand of magic missile with even five charges is great as soon as you fight another caster. A scroll of charm is potentially worth more than its weight in platinum. Your one or two spells are literally game changers, you just have to use them at the right moment.

AD&D wizarding isn't about always casting spells. Its about knowing when to cast a spell, when to indulge in arson, and how to use a wheelbarrow to best effect.