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Thread: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
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2021-11-12, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
This. I do like a lot of bits, but at the same time a lot of other bits are just bad.
Rune Knights, Glory Paladins, Astral/Mercy Monks, the BM maneuvers, all good.
But then Soul Knifes break bounded accuracy for no discernible reason, Both the clerics are just hilariously overtuned (we already had a lot of really strong clerics?) and the lineage system just isn't really balanced or sensible as something to add in the system that we have.Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2021-11-12, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
It looks like that's coming.
I like TCoE for the most part, but I agree with the general sentiment that a lot of it felt rushed and incomplete. Specifically, the only thing I was pointedly disappointed with was the section on customizing spells. I went into that fully hoping that we'd see some structure around swapping out spell damage types, so we could get some cool caster elemental themes going. I mean I still do that at my own table (we have an "ice druid"), but it would have been fun to see it made official.
The race stuff doesn't bug me. I don't mind hardcoded ASIs. I don't mind freeform ASIs. My preference would be for the rules to say something like "dwarves tend to be tough and somewhat stronger than their size would suggest, and many are +2 Con and +1 Str, but you do you."
Speaking of size, I agree that Small PCs should be able to wield Heavy weapons, even if they have to wrap that into a class. For example, fighter could provide proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, and oh also if you're small you get to ignore the Heavy penalty. So it's not across the board that Small races can use greatswords, but Small fighters can (and whatever other martial classes make sense). But then, I also think Powerful Build should let you ignore the Heavy limit, as well as the strength req for heavy armor. So maybe I'm a weirdo.
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2021-11-12, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
As with every book there's some good stuff and some bad stuff.
Tasha's isn't the PHB though, so they can't get away with having a wide variety of subclass or racial balance like the core book does.
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2021-11-12, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
From my observations, I think one of the reasons people hate on TCoE is because it loosens the rules and restrictions regarding player races. This ties in to one of the overall things that people complain about 5e, that things are meant to be resolved between the player and the DM and not because of an airtight rule in a book. The people who complain about this are apparently terrorized and powerless in front of a rules lawyer player who cheerfully utilizes everything and anything available and throws a huge tantrum when told "no" to their perfect creation.
I'm being melodramatic, of course, but that's how a lot of people sound anytime a new book comes out.
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2021-11-12, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
It did a lot of the things it did poorly:
- It caused a lot of unnecessary unclarity with the Bladetrips by rewording them to close a loophole literally nobody ever was abusing.
- It introduced new Sorcerer subclasses as a fix to the class. So Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul and in few niches Divine Soul are the only Sorcs that matter. Wanna play a Storm or a Dragon or a Wild Magic or whatever Sorc? Too bad, they are totally left in dust and didn't even bothering to give ideas for how to compensate to the old ones.
- It introduced new Cleric subclasses that make all the old ones look ridiculously weak except for Arcana in level 17+ game. Indeed, especially Twilight removes all challenge from most normal adventure paths while Peace introduces pointless number creep and they combine stupidly well together to split damage evenly so as to maximise the value of Twilight sanctuary. There's also stupid stuff like 300' darkvision for no reason and initiative advantages and such. These are just pointless power creep for no reason and quite possibly the worst written subclasses in the history of the game.
- Bladesinger was also sort of overtuned with its super-Extra Attack feature even though Bladesong was made a bit weaker on low levels. It's not as bad as the others though.
- Custom Lineage. Yeah, it's pretty dumb compared to most options.
- Switching ability scores causes some issues though it also fixes some. Overall this is a good idea but the execution is a bit shaky though given the inexistent balance of 5e as a baseline, it isn't that relevant.
- The new Summon spells are not compatible with older material (e.g. Shepherd doesn't work with Summon Beast and company) and in general, are just "summon generic statblock" which doesn't feel as good to some people.
And a number of other complaints (many related to the alternative class features and such, though some are clumsy "fixes"). The game with Tasha's has more clear "best picks" for various classes than a game without, though not by much. It added some fixes but in such a way that they aren't compatible with older material. It's really a sort of 5.5, except without updating any of the existing options.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2021-11-12, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
As a statement of fact, it is my view, that proclamations like this are **** that is not fit for an otyugh to wallow in.
Many, people consider starting with an Prime Attribute with a score of less than 16, to be a non viable character. I don't see how dwarf Wizards being able to have an Intelligence score of 16 or 17 at 1st level in a game that uses the Default Array, is some Radical Political Act.
It is just eliminating, Defacto Limits to Racial Ability Score Maximums.
As Stoutstein, Eladriel, and others have ably demonstrated, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything has a bevy of quality control issues that should be considered.Last edited by Thunderous Mojo; 2021-11-12 at 11:54 AM.
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2021-11-12, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
They posted to explain their quote the OP is referencing. We should assume they did not post to reopen the 8 closed threads. I assume you don't want to either.
Oddly enough 5E goes out of its way to make a 14 Prime Attribute viable at level 20. So it still feels jarring to hear that reasoning/position. However that does not change their experience and I too don't want to reopen the closed threads.Last edited by OldTrees1; 2021-11-12 at 12:04 PM.
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2021-11-12, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
That is good, as I too have no wish to discuss that here, on this message board.
Jack offered a Point of View.
I offered a different Point of View.
I will be leaving it there.
Be Well, Good Luck, and Good Gaming, to all!🍻Last edited by Thunderous Mojo; 2021-11-12 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Sounded Petulant
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2021-11-12, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-11-12, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Its political in the sense that it was a response to public outcry though that's not really the issue here, I think everyone would be happy if it was a change they personally wanted.
IMO, players who want to play suboptimal combinations of race and class for the purposes of creating a more unique character have no business complaining that its suboptimal. Though at my own table I just sidestep the issue with power creep (make the standard array include a 16)Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2021-11-12, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I will just say that the racial ability score swapping aspect of Tasha’s has caused me to seriously consider every race when imagining a character for any class.
Similarly, the old bias of “I really want to play <race>, so that means I should play <specific class> or <another specific class>…” is just gone.
I think these cognitive changes have improved my experience with the game.
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2021-11-12, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I would say that it is far from universally reviled. I've never heard either of the two nicknames for it that you mention.
Personally, I like far more in Tasha's than I dislike. Even the "OP" stuff isn't broken in comparison to the power creep of previous editions - just in comparison to 5e. The twilight cleric with 300' of dark vision isn't broken, neither is the peace cleric but they are above the power curve for other cleric archetypes.
Custom lineage is also a feature that sees a lot of argument along with the racial customization options that let folks move around the stat increases for each race. Not bad, just different and some folks hate it.
So - no - there really is nothing fundamentally wrong with it for many people.
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2021-11-12, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
So from my understanding of Tasha’s other than the usual complaints of power creep and poor editing. Which is par for the course of WotC really. Races have been the big issue, that people get tied up in.
In general, the arguments about it I’ve read follow four camps:
1) My character is special, I should be allowed to do anything I want with the race with no restrictions at all. Which, I can get the appeal of, you are playing heroes.
I do think this line of thought more or less negates the point of race and verisimilitude. It’s be easier just to make everyone just say they are whatever race they want to be with not bonuses or penalties. Or perhaps a list of generic features to just add together.
2) Creating a character is a puzzle, where you get to look at the pieces available and work them to fit. As such Tasha makes the puzzle dramatically easier to the point it isn’t really even fun anymore. At first you had to have a specific build in mind to make that armored dwarf Wizard viable, to make up for the Int penalty. Now you can just pick the features you want, the fun little puzzle is gone.
I can see the appeal and complaints for this camp. Though since Tasha’s a good portion of them have moved over to Pathfinder. Which admittedly as a system does this much, much better than 5e does anyway.
3) Finally a way for every character to not get screwed over by picking a weird class or even a class they’re supposed to take. No more do warrior races get nothing for picking a warrior class since all WotC gave them were a bunch of weapon proficiencies. And now they don’t get screwed over with a starting primary stat of 15 instead of 16.
Of course, a 15 in a primary stat isn’t a death sentence, with appropriate system mastery it isn’t even much of an issue in some cases. But to some new players it does feel bad. And that’s important for game design. And while the proficiencies thing is a real problem, the solution to it is kinda halfhearted and opens up other issues. Like how now Hobgoblins are diverse tool masters, not the dwarves and gnomes who are actually supposed to be the tool focused race. Which leads is to…
4) What is called a race is actually supposed to be a completely different species that is not human. They have features to demonstrate that they are not human. Elves are supernaturally lithe and graceful. Dwarves are tough as stone. Orcs are strong. That is what they are. Removing these makes the players not even match the fluff of the race, it’s just bad worldbuilding.
And while I sympathize with this argument. 5e has always been terrible at this, with or without Tasha’s. Elves are supposed to be supernaturally lithe and agile. But really they just have a slight bonus that is largely irrelevant from actual gameplay. A +1 in a stat doesn’t actually make anyone feel more elf-y.
5) Race is seen as a representation of actual human racial diversity, and as such limiting a group of a race by making them weaker or especially dumber than others can be backtracked on to discussions of the various racial coding that was used intentionally or not with the origins of each species, and let’s be clear, scratch at the surface history and there is some kinda screwed up racial beliefs that did influence some races design. Even if the current group steps away from it, it is still there.
But then, this is a fantasy world. And these races are not human races. Human races are all in the Human and Variant Human race. From there, these different species are what you make of them. After all, even on earth there have been hominids that are naturally stronger or dumber than a standard human. And if these concepts can’t be explored in a fantasy where can they be?
And round and round it goes.
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2021-11-12, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
The only thing I didn't like was the change to racial abilities. I don't like the reason why it was made (I refuse to apologize for it.) and the execution of it. I'm all for it being perfectly ok to have an 18 at first level, but the Custom Lineage was a poor way to do it. With the floating ability scores, humans get screwed over again because they get nothing from it, neither the regular nor variant.
I am allowing a Scribes wizard in my game. I recognize the power of it and can appreciate it was nerfed a little from its original form. It influenced the player to be a Blaster. So far it hasn't been overpowering. It does mean the character can easily cast Fireball against fire resistant creatures, but that hasn't happened yet. If I regret this later in the campaign I won't force the player to change his character or anything, but I'll note it for future reference. We caught it early before it made a difference that the ability to change the damage type does not apply to Cantrips, so no more Psychic Fire Bolt because he also has Mind Sliver.
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2021-11-12, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Oh dear, where to start?
The name. I'll start with the name "Tasha's Cauldron of Everything." It reeks of poorly thought out branding and a lack of thematic intention. Just sort of name it like the other one, except it's a witch. So what's, like, witchy? Hexes? Nah. Broomsticks? Meh. Chicken Legged Huts? Too Russian. Cauldron? Whelp can't think of anything else, so cauldron it is. Name, noun, of everything. Boxes checked.
Except it's weaksauce. Where's the vision? And it's emblematic of the entire endeavor.
The contents are much the same, to my eye. The principles of bounded accuracy were basically abandoned. Much of the principles of the action economy were likewise abandoned. Sure, beastmaster rangers got a fix - a positive thing! - but then basically every caster got a spell that simulates most of the subclass with a spell slot. There's a fighter subclass that is basically a warlock, but it can cast more spells per short rest sooner than a warlock can, but on a fighter chassis; how's that for a considered approach? There are so many magic items dedicated to people who don't need them; list after list of magical spell books... and *one* item for monks that they've needed since the inception of the game. A fix for sorcerers - at the cost of allowing anyone and their brother access to their only class feature, killing dead their only unique niche. More fighitng styles - one of which emulates a level 14 rogue ability, devaluing it instantly.
There's a handful of good ideas in Tasha's. But much like the title, the majority of it feels like soulless box checking, hastily approved, and thematically weak.
I'm one of the people who doesn't like the book. I like most of what they did with the ranger, I don't mind what they did with psionics (beyond the general complaints about breaking bounded accuracy), but the fuller context of the book is pretty weak sauce.
Someone said like 90% is good, 10% isn't. I'm coming at it more from the 10% is good, 80% is weak, 10% is straight garbage, but in a balance that garbage negates alot of the good things. Thus, I'm left with an overwhelmingly weak book.
That said, I'm not sure I would have been clever enough to come up with "Trasha's."
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2021-11-12, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I'm not a fan of the implementation of proficiency and attribute bonus swapping because it takes little account for weird edge cases. Mountain Dwarf and Half-Elf are obvious (Half-elf was already considered one of the best choices in the game pretty much regardless of class and now it's just better), but then there are cases like Elf as well. Elves get Perception proficiency because part of the fantasy of Elves is that they have superior senses to most other creatures. It's part of being an Elf. But proficiency swap lets you drop a biological factor for something unrelated because they're grafting this system on halfway through its life cycle. The sentiment doesn't bug me, the implementation does.
The custom lineage rules are boring, regardless of if they're OP. They also worry me for the future of the game. I don't want to open 6e and find the section on races/lineages/species to just say "here's how you make up whatever you want". I want to play D&D and there is a small, however unlikely, concern that they're going to foist making that happen on the people that pay for their products. Not saying it will happen, just that the doubt has been introduced.
I don't like that they finally decided to do Sorcerers with bonus spells and didn't provide lists for previous subclasses. It's dissatisfying in a way I'm not sure WotC understands. Maybe this be fixed in a few years when their revamp comes out, we'll see. Until then we have to do the work ourselves.
Not really concerned about any of the OP subclasses. I will say, I actually find them some of the least enticing. I can't get my head around what a Twilight Cleric is supposed to represent, so despite its supposed power I don't know if I'll ever play one. There are some inspiring options though. Personally what I like about psi warrior is less the interpretation I've seen of it being a Jedi and more that it's a one man siege engine.
I appreciate some of the base class "fixes" with the alternate and bonus features. Not sure why Barbarian's need to grab extra skills at random levels, but that's more confusion than distaste
Overall, I mostly feel kind of meh about it. No particular love or hate for the book, even though I like and dislike certain parts. I've become increasingly tempted to just go back to basics and play PHB-only games. Mostly so I don't have to check three separate sources for my abilities. I think Tasha's also just kind of marks a point of feature bloat in the game, at least on the player side.Last edited by Luccan; 2021-11-12 at 03:05 PM.
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2021-11-12, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I'll be honest...I don't see the issue with the Twilight Cleric. Clerics are a weak class as it is, having one of the worst spell lists I've ever seen once you get past T1 and abilities that do not make up for it. So them having a strong subclass is fine as far as I'm concerned.
And I have tried cleric...I have a level 15 Arcana Cleric right now and...I wish I had played literally anything else. Their spell list is just so, so bad. Especially compared to the Druid and Wizard, which are my two favorite caster classes.Never let the fluff of a class define the personality of a character. Let Clerics be Atheist, let Barbarians be cowardly or calm, let Druids hate nature, and let Wizards know nothing about the arcane
Fun Fact: A monk in armor loses Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense, and Unarmored Movement, but keep all of their other abilities, including subclass features, and Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks. Make a Monk in Fullplate with a Greatsword >=D
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2021-11-12, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I'm conflicted on the "assign your starting ASIs however you want" front. I don't really have a problem with that, since other games have somewhat similar systems, though those also have physiological bonuses baked in, as well as class-based increases. And to do it "right" would take a whole new revision, so while I grouse that it feels like it was crapped out in about an hour*, I can understand that they wouldn't just immediately push out a new edition... though I suspect that was about when the 5.5 revision was decided on.
TBPH, it's mostly that was in a response to a Twitter mob that annoys me. And even then, I understand that the value of D&D to Hasbro isn't nearly enough for them to feel like defending it over just ceasing production of the TTRPG, so it's logical to try to appease said Twitter mob before Hasbro appeases them with your head. And maybe we'll get a better game overall in 2024.
*- I have heard on this board this was in the works for a while anyway, and as part of a corporate world I can understand...but it still feels like they crapped it out.
I don't particularly care about Twilight clerics; they're strong, but they just have a lot of things going on that they could be just fine with fewer features. But then again, I think full-list casters should have fewer features than limited casters or martials, what with freely swappable spells and all.
I'm mostly irritated with their handling of sorcerers; adding bonus spells know to the Tasha's subclasses without giving that to the previous subclasses just feels ridiculously unfair. Meanwhile, we get two pages of battlemaster builds...not complaining about the new maneuvers, just the sample builds.
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2021-11-12, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2021-11-12, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I mean, even as a buffer I find my cleric really only has three spells to add: Aid, Bless, and Death Ward. Outside of that, I've yet to find any spells that impress me as buffs for the party, debuffs for the enemy, or battlefield control. Most of their higher level spells seem to have a heavy focus on Divination...but I've never found a use for Divination spells. I find Druids are far better at things like Battlefield control, transportation, ect.
Edit: Now, once I reach level 17 I suspect I'll have more fun...but that's only going to be because of Wish. I'm an Arcana cleric, and using Wish to instantly make a Simulacrum, then wait a day to cast it again for an instant, free Planar Binding is gonna be great. But I could do the same thing as a Wizard...Last edited by sithlordnergal; 2021-11-12 at 04:06 PM.
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2021-11-12, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
I like Tasha's, I'm in favor of it, think it brought a lot of good changes, put me on the 'it's not so bad' list. But I will say, Twilight clerics are plain out banned at my tables.
There's a couple of reasons why, but if I had to bring it to one, it's their channel divinity is just ridiculous.
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"As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die. Whenever a creature (including you) ends its turn in the sphere, you can grant that creature one of these benefits:
- You grant it temporary hit points equal to 1d6 plus your cleric level.
- You end one effect on it causing it to be charmed or frightened."
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If this thing worked once, it would be good. But it goes off every turn, for all friendlies, in an area.
Regenerating 1d6+Cleric level is STRONG. It does this every turn for a minute. There is no concentration. If it had that, it'd be fine. But you cast it, and are good. At level 10, let's say there's a really intense combat. You have 5 players taking a pounding every turn. That's... 675 temp HP. At level 10. And you can have more people. Even weak allies or townsfolk... or the necromancers horde of zombies.
People called healing spirit busted. That has nothing on this ability. Oh, and it's a channel divinity, clerics get 3 of those... a short rest by lvl 18.
That's the MAIN issue I have with twilight cleric, but wait, there's more! It's not one epic ability. They get more.
* Domain spells: VERY strong defensively!
* Bonus proficiencies, both heavy armor and martial armor? War cleric gets this, but few others get both.
* Dark vision, don't really care, but they have the best in the game, by far. Granted, most tables, seems like dark vision is something you have, or don't have.
*CD, hit on
* Can fly, at lvl 6, as a bonus action in dim or darkness.
* Divine strike - nothing to write home about, though radiant is also a strong damage type.
* Twilight Shroud - Permanent half cover with your CD... for everyone.
Yeah, I don't care too much about Peace Domain, this monstrosity though, it scares me. I do not allow them in my games. One game I'm in the GM does allow them, we have one. The GM struggles to damage us at all. This is a GM who if we had an encounter that was 'just deadly', we would consider it a strange game.
I've played clerics before too, yeah, they are boring. Past lvl 10, they don't feel like get much, especially their spell list, but Twilight's DEEEFINITELY not the answer!!!
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Still, despite this, I like Tasha's my answer to the thread is I feel the overall mechanics in the book were needed. I have undying hatred of a total of one subclass. That's not so bad. I also hate Ancestral Barbarian, but loved Xanathar's.
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2021-11-12, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Banishment is useful as heck.
Turned a 6 demons versus the PCs into 4 demons versus PCs in two turns. And that was the difference in winning that fight versus being worse off. DM hadn't seen that trick pulled off before except versus some elementals by my celestial lock.
Outside of that, I've yet to find any spells that impress me as buffs for the party, debuffs for the enemy, or battlefield control.
Command can be upcast to get multiple enemies to run.
Bane is underappreciated as a defuff.
Speak with the dead can be used to get info that gets you past the next hazard.
Turn undead does just that. (The Arcana abjure version I have used with some frequency in tier 2, how often have you used it?)
Bestow Curse: you can force the enemy to do nothing for a few rounds. (The wis save one). That's a nice debuff when it lands.
I find Druids are far better at things like Battlefield control, transportation, ect.
Edit: Now, once I reach level 17 I suspect I'll have more fun...but that's only going to be because of Wish. I'm an Arcana cleric, and using Wish to instantly make a Simulacrum, then wait a day to cast it again for an instant, free Planar Binding is gonna be great. But I could do the same thing as a Wizard...
Arcana cleric gets magic missile, but I think that spell is somewhat overrated, however useful it is.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-11-12 at 04:18 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-11-12, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Banishment is really handy, the downside is that lately we've been fighting big, singular boss creatures instead of multiple creatures at once. So while Banishment is a great spell to get rid of a few enemies, its kind of useless when you have to kill a single creature already on its native plane.
As for Raise Dead, I'm the only one that has really died in the campaign so far. Mostly because my I kept finding myself having to act as a tank...partially because my half on my allies keep running off if they even think things might go poorly, and partially because my DM will gladly ignore a Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin trying to be the frontline, and go straight for me, the Wizard. I won't have even had a turn yet and he'll go for me with monsters on the grounds of "You look like you're a spell caster, and therefore are the most dangerous". Which...he's right, I was the most dangerous, but come on...you had an entire frontline to target and took attacks of opportunity just to target the Dwarven Wizard in half plate.
And I have used Command and Bane a few times, but Command's effect is for a single round and it isn't really enough to be considered proper battle field control. Bane is good though, I always take it on Bards
I will admit, the Arcana Abjure for channel divinity is helpful. Channel Divinity as a whole is probably the only thing I really like about the Cleric Class. But that one ability doesn't make up for the rest of the Cleric's short comings.
Fun fact I found out during a previous session: Wind Walk is a Druid only spell in 5e, unless they made an errata that I missed that gives Clerics access to Wind Walk. I looked through the entire Cleric spell list, the only transportation spells Arcana Clerics get are Teleportation Circle and Plane Shift.
It is pretty handy, though I tend to cast Guiding Bolt over Magic Missile. I will fully admit that 1st and 2nd level spells are AMAZING, and 3rd level spells do have some fine options like Spirit Guardian. But once you reach 4th level and higher they sort of just fall off.Last edited by sithlordnergal; 2021-11-12 at 04:39 PM.
Never let the fluff of a class define the personality of a character. Let Clerics be Atheist, let Barbarians be cowardly or calm, let Druids hate nature, and let Wizards know nothing about the arcane
Fun Fact: A monk in armor loses Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense, and Unarmored Movement, but keep all of their other abilities, including subclass features, and Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks. Make a Monk in Fullplate with a Greatsword >=D
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2021-11-12, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Ya know what? The cleric who used that had a magic item, now that I think back. Those prayer beads, and one of the spells was wind walk.
Sorry! (DOH!)
The problem I've had with divination spells, in general, is that the DM has no actual control over future dice rolls, and no few divination attempts by players overlap with stuff that has dice rolls attached.
And, beyond that, DM's can't mind-read players and figure out when their minds will change.
Makes rolling divination spells into the game, versus a written story, tricky for me.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-11-12 at 04:40 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-11-12, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Ganryu adequately covered the Twilight class features.
Minor derail time!
Clerics do have a very small list of high-level spells, although Tasha's helped if you like to cause radiant damage.
I made a thread grousing about it recently. Here are a few you may wish to consider:
8 Sunburst, 150', 60' radius, 12d6 radiant damage and blind, Con save negates, undead have disadvantage on their save. Vampires go boom. Added to cleric list in Tasha's. Not party friendly, so use it before your melee players get mixed in.
8 Holy Aura, Concentration up to 1 minute. All allies within 30' glow, have advantage on saving throws, and enemies have disadvantage on attack rolls against them. Fiends or undead who hit glowing allies have to make a Con save or be blinded on every hit with no re-save until the spell ends. It's like the defensive version of Foresight, but in an AOE around you... good against any enemy type.
7 Firestorm is a decent blasting spell because you can sculpt it to hit spread-out enemies while not hitting allies. Also good for causing collateral damage.
7 Etherealness lets you walk through walls, floors, etc. Upcast to walk into the middle of the enemy fortress with the whole party.
6 Sunbeam lets you shoot a 6d8 line attack each round as your action. Con half, blind for 1 rd on a failed save. Added in Tasha's.
5 Summon Celestial (Tasha's). At 6th level, 3 attacks per round for 2d6+8 radiant damage each. The melee version grants temp HP to allies each time it hits an enemy.
5 Contagion, on-hit, inflicts the poisoned condition. Short of Heal or Restoration-type spells (which NPCs rarely pack), the target has the Poisoned condition for a minimum of 3 rounds, potentially up to 5 rounds depending on successful or failed saves. If it fails 3 saves before passing 3 saves, it then has your pick of crippling diseases. This ongoing single-target debuff does not require Concentration.
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2021-11-12, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-11-12 at 04:45 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-11-12, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2021-11-12, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2017
Re: Why do people hate TashaÂ’s?
Basically, it's divisive because A. Power creep is real, and a couple classes got creeped that really didn't need it, B. Lineages were fixing a problem that never really existed in a way people don't like, C. It broke SCAG cantrips, and D. People don't like some of the stuff in it.
Most of this comes down to DM's not knowing how to say no or not wanting to say no. Some of it is honestly just poor design; Peace domain clerics are shockingly strong, twilight clerics are exceptionally good. Some of it is design that clashes with certain world-views; some people dislike artificers, and to be fair they do make a lot more sense in certain campaign settings than others.
Personally, it holds a certain space in my heart for including more battlemaster maneuvers and fighting styles. I also really like the new druids. For that reason, I'd never ban the entire book.
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2021-11-12, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
if you fail an ability check using a skill or tool with which you have proficiency, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning failure into success. You expend the die only if the roll succeeds.
It doesn't matter because skill checks are a huge mess anyway, but its continuing the problem.Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2021-11-12, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2017
Re: Why do people hate Tasha’s?
Guidance and Bardic Inspiration have always stacked. This is not new. Why are you singling out the psionic dice as being bad?
I don't understand what you're trying to say. What do you mean by breaking a campaign? What do you mean by breaking an idea?Last edited by Ortho; 2021-11-12 at 05:53 PM.
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