Spider-Man: No Way Home - New Trailer

[hungrycrow]

Spoiler: But it would be fun to see...

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Since Norman is now cured, and has advance knowledge of the existence of at least two future supervillains - Doc Ock is at least in his power to prevent, seeing as Dr. Octavius is one of his employees, and only got his hands on the tritium (sp?) because of Harry's support - which now wouldn't happen, as Norman didn't die and Harry wouldn't have to take over Oscorp.

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Hm, was Norman conscious enough to notice those details? He doesn't remember the things that he does as Green Goblin, so if Goblin was in control when he was working with Peter earlier Norman wouldn't have learned much about Doc Ock and Sandman.

I think another thing this movie missed was maybe showing what happened to everyone after they return to their respective universes. It would've been nice to see the results of all Peter's hardships.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

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Hm, was Norman conscious enough to notice those details? He doesn't remember the things that he does as Green Goblin, so if Goblin was in control when he was working with Peter earlier Norman wouldn't have learned much about Doc Ock and Sandman.

I think another thing this movie missed was maybe showing what happened to everyone after they return to their respective universes. It would've been nice to see the results of all Peter's hardships.

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I’m not 100% when Norman was steering and when he was the Goblin (I’ve heard there’s some difference in his teeth, but I’d need to rewatch the movie to check that ) but when they’re all in cells he sees the tentacles, and is like, ‘What happened to you?’ I think that was Norman. So basically all he’d need to do is transfer Otto to any other project once those show up.

[Vahnavoi]

Norman forgetting what he does as the goblin is psychosomatic - he appears to not remember because he doesn't want to remember. His goblin persona calls him out on this in the first Spider-Man. And while it is the human enhancement formula that drives Norman off the edge, it is not clear if his mental instability is purely a factor of that. His son, Harry, starts mentally cracking in a similar manner in the first three movies, way before he is exposed to the formula. And, on the flipside, Harry later redeems himself despite being under influence of the formula. It is possible the Osborn family has some inherent tendency to this particular brand of mental illness.

This doesn't make a difference for events of the movie, either way you want the old man to take his meds.

[Tyndmyr]

ASM didn't have William DaFoe devouring every bit of scenery he got near, or Alfred Molina being Alfred Molina. The pair of them basically carried the entire villain squad on their back - Lizard had no screentime, Sandman got almost no screentime, and Electro just sort of existed without doing anything.

I would agree with this, there's a pretty clear hierarchy in terms of how awesome the villains are.

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Green Goblin, Doc Oct top tier.
Electro mid tier.
Sandman, Lizard mostly just...there.

The first two are important to the story and gloriously acted. The movie wouldn't be the same without them. Electro is more interesting that his earlier performance, but honestly, there are only so many different villain rants about wanting power that you can listen to in the same film before sort of ignoring the less important ones. He's at least kind of important to the plot, and his motivations are consistent, so he's not actually a bad character, just...not on the same level.

Sandman's motivation is all over the place. Why does he initially help Spidey, then fight him? For someone with ostensibly a "get home to his daughter" goal, he is really, really terrible at pursuing it.

Lizard barely does anything, and if dropped entirely from the film, nothing would really change. He's never much of a combat challenge, doesn't get a lot of lines. He doesn't really hurt the film either, but one could forget about him without consequence.

So, I watched it again, and...okay, I still really like this film, and still consider it great. But on a rewatching, there are definitely some odd bits. Not enough to seriously detract from the film overall, but hey, there's enough for some fun nitpicking.

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So, very early on they have some sort of Aunt May trying to convince Peter to save them. This feels...strange. I know they're setting up Aunt May in the Uncle Ben role, but this isn't a brand new Spiderman. Peter's been trying to save people for a while now, and while he may not always have an abundance of forethought, his heart is generally in the right place.

Basically, I already believe that Peter will want to save people once he realizes they're going to die. This all feels unnecessary.

Next up we have the Doc Ock fight. MIT lady takes an insanely long time to get out of a car. Yeah, there's the implication that the driver bailed on her, leaving the back doors locked, but reaching up and popping the lock isn't *that* slow. I fear she does not actually come off as all that intelligent as a result of this. Hardly a big deal...I've met some overly arrogant folks in college administrations for sure, this is more of an amusing thing to notice than a problem with disbelief.

Sandman's strange motivations have already been covered, so we'll skip ahead to, well, the big ol "take them all home and fix them" part. I have no idea why they brought with lizardman in a box truck and then left him outside. That just seems weird. Bringing them all home is clearly risky, but treating him differently is just odd...and doesn't lead to anything. He just claws his way out and escapes as everything goes awry, apparently by luck and good timing. He briefly joins the fight, but doesn't initiate it. It feels as if a subplot was cut here.

The strangeness continues into the fight. You've got visual continuity oddness, with Lizardman changing to Green Goblin in a jump cut during the latter "punch him down into the lobby" sequence. Slightly earlier, Green Goblin entirely changes costume the same way. I also don't recall Green Goblin being quite this physically beefy. I recall his flying and proclivity for weapons being generally more essential, and it feels odd with how strong we've established this Spidey to be. Are we really saying that an elderly gentleman with a mental health problem can trade punches with him? The armor counts for something, but the face isn't armored.

The visual continuity weirdness continues throughout the death scene. Aunt May acts entirely normal for an entire conversation, and then...reveals that she has apparently been gushing blood from her side this entire time and promptly dies. This is strange.

The Swat team is also frigging strange. They are basically moving in slow motion, despite a *lot* of events happening in front of them with no real movement on their part, despite them being in "move in" position. They don't care much about Happy driving directly between them and their direction of movement, nor do they appear to notice or care about any supervillains or the obviously injured woman, but they do just shoot Spiderman for no reason despite him obviously posing no threat...and not really moving or failing to respond to commands. I really don't know why they're here.

The tone of the movie changes a great deal once the other two show up. Of the two, I really like Garfield's spidey. He gets some of the best lines, his character is just great in context. This is all mostly fun, though the "all talking at once" feels slightly forced on a rewatch. The entrance scene is perhaps a little too hammy as well, with the spidermen talking about how this world's Peter needs their help. That feels, uh, okay. Neither of them apparently sought Spidey out, how do they even know what's going on? All of this happens over a fairly short time frame. You could probably cut or change a couple of words and it'd all be fine, though.

The final fight also has some weirdness with continuity. MJ is knocked off the tower by Green Goblin who flies upward cackling. Spidey jumps downward to catch her. The Green Goblin flies into Spidey from below to knock him out of the way. There's seriously a teleporter on this glider or something.

Oh, and side note, MJ seems to have apparently become far less decisive as a character. The MJ we know from the previous two movies probably should have hesitated a lot less to push the button over the apartment fight.

Toby's stab is, due to the way Aunt May's stabbing is handled, sort of whiplash. An abdominal stab wound is clearly treated as pretty lethal, so one at first thinks Toby's spidey is dying, but then...apparently it's not a big deal. There's a bit of humor here, and that's great, but the film is definitely playing pretty fast and loose with what constitutes a serious threat.

There is, of course, a lot of potential catgirls to kill with regards to the finale and the shift and what not, but I'm not all that irked about the details. More fun speculation than anything else. Anyways, that's my ramble on the topic.

[The Glyphstone]

Spoiler: aunt may

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Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, basically. She went after a supervillain with a fire axe then got buried under rubble, that part of the scene was more than believable to me.

[Dr.Samurai]

Spoiler: Aunt May

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Yeah, the Aunt May prolonged death scene was definitely too much. She got hit by the glider right? There's no way you get hit by that glider and walk around as if everything is okay and it isn't obvious to others that you've lost half your torso. I've only seen the scene once, but when she was "okay" I thought "maybe the glider didn't hit her". But I'm pretty sure it did, and it was weird that she was still walking around and coherent and Peter was none the wiser.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong?

[Tyndmyr]

Dr. Samurai:

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You are remembering it correctly. The camera simply doesn't pan down to the wound site until after she falls down. But after it does, her entire side is soaked with blood.

Dunno, seems like it'd be noticeable. At least to Peter, even if not to her, somehow.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

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Sandman's motivation is all over the place. Why does he initially help Spidey, then fight him? For someone with ostensibly a "get home to his daughter" goal, he is really, really terrible at pursuing it.

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You mean the initial scene with Electro? He thought when MCU!Spidey warped Electro back to the Sanctum that he’d murdered the guy.

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Lizard barely does anything, and if dropped entirely from the film, nothing would really change. He's never much of a combat challenge, doesn't get a lot of lines. He doesn't really hurt the film either, but one could forget about him without consequence.

Can’t disagree here. He mostly seems to be there for the brief humor derived from peoples’ reactions to him.

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Next up we have the Doc Ock fight. MIT lady takes an insanely long time to get out of a car. Yeah, there's the implication that the driver bailed on her, leaving the back doors locked, but reaching up and popping the lock isn't *that* slow. I fear she does not actually come off as all that intelligent as a result of this. Hardly a big deal...I've met some overly arrogant folks in college administrations for sure, this is more of an amusing thing to notice than a problem with disbelief.

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Wasn’t her seatbelt jammed?

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Sandman's strange motivations have already been covered, so we'll skip ahead to, well, the big ol "take them all home and fix them" part. I have no idea why they brought with lizardman in a box truck and then left him outside. That just seems weird. Bringing them all home is clearly risky, but treating him differently is just odd...and doesn't lead to anything. He just claws his way out and escapes as everything goes awry, apparently by luck and good timing. He briefly joins the fight, but doesn't initiate it. It feels as if a subplot was cut here.

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I thought he wanted to be left behind, but I admit I don’t remember why.

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I also don't recall Green Goblin being quite this physically beefy. I recall his flying and proclivity for weapons being generally more essential, and it feels odd with how strong we've established this Spidey to be. Are we really saying that an elderly gentleman with a mental health problem can trade punches with him? The armor counts for something, but the face isn't armored.

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Don’t forget the serum that pushed him over the edge in the first place was specifically a performance enhancer being designed for military use. So he’s got Raimi!super soldier serum in his body.

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Oh, and side note, MJ seems to have apparently become far less decisive as a character. The MJ we know from the previous two movies probably should have hesitated a lot less to push the button over the apartment fight.

Tend to agree here.

[hungrycrow]

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You mean the initial scene with Electro? He thought when MCU!Spidey warped Electro back to the Sanctum that he’d murdered the guy.

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He might mean the fight at the Statue of Liberty. I'd guess Sandman wants to use the box himself to go home, but it's weird that he'd team up with the other villains who obviously don't want that, and also that he'd try to murder one of the Spider-men. [/S]

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Wasn’t her seatbelt jammed?

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When everyone on the bridge first starts fleeing she has a line about the door being locked, then Doc Ock talks to Peter for a bit, and then the fight starts and her car gets knocked around. Maybe she froze up when she saw Otto instead of fumbling around with a lock for 30 seconds?

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Don’t forget the serum that pushed him over the edge in the first place was specifically a performance enhancer being designed for military use. So he’s got Raimi!super soldier serum in his body.

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The Green Goblin definitely has super strength in the first movie. He holds up a trolley full of children with one hand during the climax.

[Traab]

Green Goblin also matched fist to fist strength with toby in the first film iirc. As in catching his thrown punch then punishing spiderman with a counter. Doesnt matter too much if that was him, the suit, or a combination of the two, dude is strong.

[Velaryon]

Finally saw this the night before last, and got caught up to the topic. Overall I liked it, was impressed that they crammed so much into this without turning it into a total confused mess, but also can see how it's bulging at the seams and starting to pop a stitch or two.

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You mean the initial scene with Electro? He thought when MCU!Spidey warped Electro back to the Sanctum that he’d murdered the guy.

Spoiler: Sandman

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Yes, Sandman's motives make sense during his initial scene. After that, he seems to just become surly and untrusting of everybody, and for the rest of his film his motivations seem really muddled.

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I thought he wanted to be left behind, but I admit I don’t remember why.

Spoiler: Lizard

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One of the other villains (I forget which) says Lizard wanted to remain in the truck until they were ready. I don't remember if it was specifically said out loud, but I feel like the justification was "to avoid being seen" which doesn't hold up really well given Doc Ock and Sandman are nearly as obvious and out of place as he is. My takeaway is that Lizard never intended to be cured and was selling an obvious line of BS so he could attempt to escape while everyone else was inside.