Class and Level Geekery XIX - Nobody Cares about that Stuff Anymore

[Lumix19]

I mean scrolls and wands exist; in fact sorcerers probably use those even more than wizards.

True enough, though I would suggest Qarr probably wasn't relying on a single-use item like a scroll. He was charming "dozens" of aquatic monsters for each attack, and presumably had to go underwater each time he wanted to gather the forces he needed.

The "cop drama" nature of those strips, and some of the dialogue between Lien and Hinjo, suggests to me that this sort of thing was becoming standard protocol after each regular attack (and presumably Qarr was acting in the same way each time).

Maybe he was relying on a wand or a ring, so would that be worth adding to his character sheet?

[Seward]

Outsiders do need to breathe, but you can hold your breath a long time and with teleport you don't have to waste any of that swimming around. TP to the place where the monsters are, charm them, TP up from time to time to get a new breath, lather rinse repeat.

[Reboot]

Outsiders do need to breathe, but you can hold your breath a long time and with teleport you don't have to waste any of that swimming around. TP to the place where the monsters are, charm them, TP up from time to time to get a new breath, lather rinse repeat.

Well, if breathing is an issue, teleporting to and from deep underwater is just asking for decompression sickness (and compression sickness!)!

[halfeye]

Well, if breathing is an issue, teleporting to and from deep underwater is just asking for decompression sickness (and compression sickness!)!

I don't believe there is any compression sickness as such.

[Ephemera]

I don't believe there is any compression sickness as such.

I mean, I think that's my understanding as well, but if we're talking about real-world physics (plus teleportation, so we're not), then instantly appearing in a high-pressure environment would be all kinds of bad for you. Without time going down to equalize the internal and external pressure I think you'd probably be looking at a minimum of burst eardrums and water rapidly forcing its way into your lungs through your nose and mouth. Although I could be wrong about the eardrums, I'm not sure how much air there is as opposed to basically non-compressible liquid in your middle and inner ear.

Like any discussion of real-world physics, though, there's a case to be made (at least for the purposes of this thread) that if there's no RAW mechanics around it, then it simply doesn't work that way in a DnD setting...and in a world where the elemental planes are survivable environments if you can find a way to breathe, I'm prepared to accept that there's no such thing as water pressure changing at different depths.

*sets timer and waits for someone to educate me on a splatbook containing rules for deep-sea diving*

[Jasdoif]

*sets timer and waits for someone to educate me on a splatbook containing rules for deep-sea diving*

Stormwrack says the same thing the SRD does...

Very deep water is not only generally pitch black, posing a navigational hazard, but worse, it deals water pressure damage of 1d6 points per minute for every 100 feet the character is below the surface. A successful Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) means the diver takes no damage in that minute.

...with some reductions for creatures with the aquatic subtype.

[b_jonas]

Well, if breathing is an issue, teleporting to and from deep underwater is just asking for decompression sickness (and compression sickness!)!

I don't think it is. Decompression sickness is a problem only if you spend enough time deep down. If you go down and up the surface very fast, like freedivers who want to dive to record depths, then you won't get decompression sickness. If Qarr teleports down to the depth and back up quickly and only spend as much time as he can hold his breath then I don't think he'll get decompression sickness, unless he does this repeatedly and spends most of his time underwater, teleporting up only to breathe.

But yes, he's also a Dungeons & Dragons fiend, so it's possible that some realistic human biology doesn't apply. Maybe his poison immunity negates decompression sickness.

[Gurgeh]

Nitrogen narcosis is effectively "compression sickness" so yes that's absolutely a thing. Alternatively, it's possible it the term being used was just a gag at the fact that you'll just get squished and killed if you're instantly popping yourself somewhere very high-pressure without any precautionary measures.

[b_jonas]

Here's a backup of the Shoulder pad guy icon since it might fall off imgur in a few days. Also Thanh , Niu , Isamu , Sangwaan , Kubota , Therkla , Windstriker , Daigo , Shojo's court wizard , Kazumi , Old Blind Pete , the Oracle of the Sunken Valley , Julio Scoundrél , the IFCC , Banjo , Giggles , Kaboom Redaxe , Shadowdancer , young adult Black Dragon , all from the smilies thread in case we ever want entries for them.

[MultitudeMan]

I reckon we're most likely to get new data for this thread in the next fight, which could very well be the Final Fight! Any guesses as to how many strips until then?

[Ephemera]

I reckon we're most likely to get new data for this thread in the next fight, which could very well be the Final Fight! Any guesses as to how many strips until then?

How many pages has it been since the end of the last book? I don't really track, but it seems to me like we have at least one more big plot twist to come--we need some sort of resolution of the arch-fiends plotline, plus the MitD reveal, as well as the resolution of whatever is going to pass between Durkon and Redcloak and their deities (plus of course, there's both the snarl and Xykon to deal with, although of course those two things might get solved at the same time).

It's possible we will get this all in one big, long battle scene but if i had to bet, I'd say we have one more misdirect or at least further escalation to go rather than just one battle and a denouement.

[hamishspence]

108.5 pages. For comparison, in Book 6, the Order were just leaving Godsmoot at this point and setting off for the town of Firmament - fights still to come included the Frost Giants, and several different vampire-related fights.

[Tubercular Ox]

It's possible we will get this all in one big, long battle scene but if i had to bet, I'd say we have one more misdirect or at least further escalation to go rather than just one battle and a denouement.

Would a fake finale count as a misdirect? Big set piece where the good guys wait for the bad guys to bring the fight to them, mirroring the climax of book one. Then, I dunno, things happen, and more story after that.

[Crusher]

Would a fake finale count as a misdirect? Big set piece where the good guys wait for the bad guys to bring the fight to them, mirroring the climax of book one. Then, I dunno, things happen, and more story after that.

Maybe. A fake finale in itself, definitely not. But it’s hard to imagine how that would even occur without some sort of major plot twist reveal happening at the same time to explain why it isn’t the real finale.

The only thing I can think of with no twist would be Xykon losing but escaping to his Astral fortress so the party has to pursue him. The Giant COULD do it, but that’d be disappointing. The party had already done the “wander empty fortress and deal with traps and spells”. That’s just be extending the right for the sake off extending it.

[Ephemera]

If we're guessing (which is kind of off-topic, but hey, maybe we can talk about the stuff people still do care about)...I'd say it's also very possible that the snarl winds up released, but there's more to come. Possibly because Redcloak and/or Xykon have control of the snarl and our heroes have to defeat them and/or we learn the real story of the snarl.

Major threads still left hanging include the meaning of the glimpse that Blackwing got inside of Girard's rift, as well as the IFCC plot and the remaining time V owes them off the top of my head (probably a check in with the Azure City refugees and any redemption arc for V will be relegated to the epilogue/denouement, but it's possible given the paladin presence here that we'll see some further Sapphire guard involvement in the finale).

With the MiTD also still to be revealed, I assume we will get a fairly epic confrontation soon (although a stumbling block for one or both sides before that fight is certainly possible), so maybe that will just be the rest of the book but I dunno, I'd be on having two climaxes to come yet.

[Crusher]

Ballpark, what would Belkar and Miko's Attack Bonuses be?

[Tubercular Ox]

Ballpark, what would Belkar and Miko's Attack Bonuses be?

A little less than 20 if you count levels, Str, a modestly enchanted weapon, and penalties for TWF. That's my recollection from when I did the math on both of these characters. Expertise made a big difference. ಠ_ಠ

[MultitudeMan]

Do we think the creature that Serini gave the empathy pea to should be listed on the thread anywhere? What kind of creature is that anyway?

[Tzardok]

a) I don't think so; two or three strips appearance and no given name aren't enough.
b) Probably some kind of dragonkin. Could be a landdrake, or a drake, or a wyrm, or a pack dragon, or anything else. I don't feel like diving into all the different dragon-type creatures that are around to guess further.

[b_jonas]

MultitudeMan: I think they're metalic dragons that are older than most of the dragons that we see in the comic and so have fewer instances of half-dragon ancestry. Half-Dragon templates give successively more “elongated features, […] and exaggerated teeth and claws” to creatures. You can see these on almost all dragons that we've met, because they have so many dragons among their ancestors.

But no, they shouldn't be listed in this thread. They should be listed in the Wrecan thread.

[Timy]

Have this final panel already discussed ?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html

I was initially thinking of Cleave but I remembered that in 3.5, you need to kill the initial target to use cleave.

So any idea ?

[danielxcutter]

There are a number of martial maneuvers that let you attack two or more targets IIRC, and Tarquin's almost certainly a swordsage, so it might be one of those.

[Tubercular Ox]

There are a number of martial maneuvers that let you attack two or more targets IIRC, and Tarquin's almost certainly a swordsage, so it might be one of those.

Your ideas are intriguing to me. Is there a newsletter? I would like to know more.

[danielxcutter]

A what? Swordsage’s from a non-core rulebook, not homebrew, if that’s what you’re asking.

[Tubercular Ox]

A what? Swordsage’s from a non-core rulebook, not homebrew, if that’s what you’re asking.

It was a Simpson's reference. I guess it's dated. I just want to know more without accidentally kicking the conversation into a debate. What swordsage-y things does Tarquin do?

[Metastachydium]

It was a Simpson's reference. I guess it's dated. I just want to know more without accidentally kicking the conversation into a debate. What swordsage-y things does Tarquin do?

He feels like a martial adept; and if he is one, all the throwing people about he does implies he uses a lot of Setting Sun, a discipline only available to Swordsages. Or something like that.

[danielxcutter]

Several of his other unusual attacks he does can also be attributed to Tiger Claw or Stone Dragon maneuvers, which are also available to Swordsages.

[Timy]

And so, why nothing is written about that in Tarquin entry ?

Is it because it is only speculation and that a lot of things could explain what he does ?

For example, why is it not even written something like "improved grapple" for the aforementioned times when he grabs people and throw them ?

I don't know the martial adept but I've googled a little bit about it and I agree that a lot of things make him look like one of them.

So is there not a thing here about it sounds like a duck, it looks like a duck so it is almost certainly a duck ?

What I mean is that it seems to be a lot of thing that we see Tarquin doing which are unusual and it seems that a lot of those things could be explained by him having some levels in this Class. So why not writing it ?

[Tubercular Ox]

Okay, this is way unfinished, but trying to catch the moment.
---
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html
Wis to AC: He slips out of the way a lot. Here he’s possibly flat-footed. He wears armor. So Wis to AC, but not a monk. Swordsage?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html
Charging Minotaur: Stone Dragon 1 Strike — Charge Haley, Bull Rush her out the window, doesn’t have to follow.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html
Fountain of Blood: Tiger Claw 4 Boost — Defeat foe, cause fear in enemies. This is sketchier than charcoal on paper, but I was feeling lenient.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0850.html
Death From Above: Tiger Claw 4 Strike—Leap into the air (from the pteranodon), attack Roy from above, deal +4d6 damage. Just barely fits mechanically, but the image is strong.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html
Counter Charge: Setting Sun 1 Counter—Ruin Roy’s charge attack, force Roy to move away from him (and onto the stairs)
Scorpion Parry: Setting Sun 6 Counter—Snatch Haley’s arrow, “Parry” it into Belkar. Cheeky to use it with snatch arrow, but it’s dramatic.
Ballista Throw: Setting Sun 6 Strike—Grab Durkon, spin like a top, throw him like a bolt from a ballista.
Soaring Throw is fluffed as throwing someone high in the air and watching them land, so not the same.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0852.html
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html
Disrupting Blow: Diamond Mind 5 Strike—Successful attack causes foe to be unable to act for 1 round.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html
Hearing the Air: Diamond Mind 5 Stance—Gain blindsense 30 ft., +5 bonus on Listen checks.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html
Assassin’s Stance: Shadow Hand 3 Stance—Gain sneak attack +2d6. He’s using an assassin’s grip on that dagger, why not?
Hamstring Attack: Tiger Claw 7 Strike: Attack, do 1d8 dex damage. On a failed save and rolling an 8, it’s -4 to hit for Haley, which I can see Rich getting really creative to draw.

Sunders Elan’s rapier: So many strikes include a sunder, looking for the right one still.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0876.html
Crushing Weight of the Mountain: Stone Dragon 3 Stance— Constrict for 2d6+1-1/2 times Str when grappling. Malack credits Tarquin for teaching him this maneuver. It would cost Malack two feats: Martial Study and Martial Stance. It gives Rich an excuse to show Malack constricting Durkon, fleshes out the relationship between Tarquin and Malack, and hints at Tarquin being a swordsage, if he is. But it doesn’t help Malack grapple, it just lets him apply damage.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html
Swordsages are fluffed as being familiar with many kinds of combat. Tome of Battle intends this to mean disciplines, I think, but straying into things like pun duels makes sense.

There’s a scene in BRitF where a clown pokes fun at Tome of Battle, but it also explains to the audience how Tome of Battle works and shows how Rich would draw someone in a martial stance if he wanted to. (It’s a null, he draws the clown just standing there in an ordinary fashion)

Spoiler: Equal Time: Stuff I didn’t try to explain (yet)

Show

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html
soaks a hit

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0820.html
Tosses a dagger

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html
gets sneak attacked

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html
Snatches an arrow

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html
Tosses a greataxe.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html
One shot kill on Nale, but Nale is already heavily wounded.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html
More arrow snatching

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html
Double attack on Elan and Roy

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html
Uses Greenhilt’s sword. (Uses a lot of weapons in general)

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0933.html
Dodges a ballista bolt.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html
More arrow snatching.

[danielxcutter]

Aren't the sundering maneuvers all from the Mountain Hammer line?