Class and Level Geekery XIX - Nobody Cares about that Stuff Anymore

[Tubercular Ox]

Yeah. Still, do we have enough insight into a sufficient number of deities to warrant that?

There are 17 Northern Gods and 17 outer planes. I'm dying to know if that means there is one deity per outer plane. Taken as a premise, it could keep a thread going at least until it's shown to be either wrong or unprovable. For each God we have their historical counterpart, their domain, and their statement about ending the world to use as evidence.

And then Hel is an 18th God, so the thread would be under a continual pall, but that seems normal.

[Peelee]

There are 17 Northern Gods

There are at least 18 Northern Gods, as you yourself noted later.

[Metastachydium]

For each God we have their historical counterpart

We don't talk about that here.

[Tubercular Ox]

There are at least 18 Northern Gods, as you yourself noted later.

An appalling discrepancy.

[Metastachydium]

So, um, Julia's entry lists Improved Sending as a spell known, but as of no. 1276, we are aware that there's, like, no such spell and the entity claiming otherwise is, like, not Julia.

[MultitudeMan]

So, um, Julia's entry lists Improved Sending as a spell known, but as of no. 1276, we are aware that there's, like, no such spell and the entity claiming otherwise is, like, not Julia.

Ah, are you thinking that it was never Julia, not even on the first apparition on the airship? I had assumed it was indeed Julia on that occasion, but Eugene this time.

[Metastachydium]

Ah, are you thinking that it was never Julia, not even on the first apparition on the airship? I had assumed it was indeed Julia on that occasion, but Eugene this time.

No, I know that. Compare and contrast no. 1193's 9th panel with Eugene's reminiscing on the 10th panel of no. 1276.

[Tubercular Ox]

If I can ask a side question without interrupting the above: What is Bloodfeast? Inventory?

[Peelee]

If I can ask a side question without interrupting the above: What is Bloodfeast? Inventory?

Either an animal that travels with the Order, like Mr. Scruffy, or possibly an Animal Companion (possibly like Mr. Scruffy).

Inventory is an.... interesting guess.

[Jasdoif]

Either an animal that travels with the Order, like Mr. Scruffy, or possibly an Animal Companion (possibly like Mr. Scruffy).

Inventory is an.... interesting guess.

To be fair, Boo took up one of Minsc's inventory slots.

[MultitudeMan]

No, I know that. Compare and contrast no. 1193's 9th panel with Eugene's reminiscing on the 10th panel of no. 1276.

Yes, I see that now! You're right, we should remove that spell from her entry.

[danielxcutter]

I'm not sure if that's solid proof against it, but it does mean that we no longer have solid proof for it either, so I guess I'm fine with it.

[Metastachydium]

I'm not sure if that's solid proof against it, but it does mean that we no longer have solid proof for it either, so I guess I'm fine with it.

I mean, "Julia" did say those exact words (which Eugene claims are his) the first time around, and the last time Eugene manifested to Roy qua Eugene, he didn't. Perhaps less compellingly, Eugene might be very good at making the wrong decision and failing to realize his fault in it, but I think that nasty old Illusionist has shown himself to be too good a liar so far to not account for the possibility of Julia actually calling Roy, and thus blowing his cover, if she is capable of doing so.

[Tubercular Ox]

Either an animal that travels with the Order, like Mr. Scruffy, or possibly an Animal Companion (possibly like Mr. Scruffy).

Inventory is an.... interesting guess.

I'm assuming Bloodfeast is written down on Belkar's character sheet somewhere. If it's not an animal companion or something more clever that I can't come up with, I'd probably write it down as inventory. I suppose it could have its own character sheet, but if I were Belkar I'd still write it down on my character sheet that I had a pet with its own character sheet that wasn't a class feature or other oddity. Just an ordinary Handle Animal rules pet I guess?

Really I was just checking if there were any geekier ideas.

[Tzardok]

Say, would the thread also be interested in gathering stats for the deities? I don't mean like abilities, but at least the things important for clerics, like alignment, granted domains and favoured weapons.
If yes, I got small write-up of the Dark One:

The Dark One
Alignment: Lawful evil
Known granted domains: Destruction, Evil, Law
Possible other domains granted: War (his afterlife is described as a giant army)
Favoured Weapon: Unknown, possibly battleaxe (none of his clerics that have appeared wield weapons, but he's depicted in SoD with an axe)

A new curated thread could be neat.

By the by, I did follow your suggestion and posted a thread on the deities. Not sure how to make it curated, or wether it's worth it, but it can be found here.

[137beth]

In the answer to question 7, The Giant says

you should probably assume everyone also has a bunch of invisible numerical bonus spells on at all times and I’m just not going to mention them explicitly unless it really matters.

[danielxcutter]

Most of those don't really change a lot of the observations anyways honestly.

[Kurald Galain]

Added:
Craft basket
Prof astrologer; changed link for "not still spell"
Craft soap, Know dungeoneering
Know planes
Craft crochet
Handle animal
Switched race to plain kobold
Wand of cleaning
Dropped improved sending spell

And yeah, I'd agree deities are out of scope for this thread. Looks like there's a new thread already

[Gurgeh]

Prof astrologer

That should be "astronomer", no? There's a difference (and V, of all people, would likely care about the distinction).

[InvisibleBison]

I'm going to reiterate my stance that none of those capabilities should be represented as skills. They were all mentioned as things that weren't included in "a complete record of all [their] exact skills...", so representing them as skills seems to me to be an explicit contradiction of the text.

[Peelee]

I'm going to reiterate my stance that none of those capabilities should be represented as skills. They were all mentioned as things that weren't included in "a complete record of all [their] exact skills...", so representing them as skills seems to me to be an explicit contradiction of the text.

In that same strip, V didn't say it wasnt a skill, they said they didnt think it was relevant.

[InvisibleBison]

In that same strip, V didn't say it wasnt a skill, they said they didnt think it was relevant.

Sure, but I assume Roy is good enough at arithmetic to keep track of how many skill points each person's description of their skills represents, and that he wouldn't call the record complete if a bunch of people hadn't mentioned how they'd spent all their skill points.

[Gurgeh]

On a re-read of the text, I'm with InvisibleBison on this one. It's about as explicit as it can be that the stuff that gets listed is not game-mechanical skills.

[Ephemera]

I dunno, Roy's "Does anyone else have any skills or talents that haven't come up yet" seems to pretty clearly indicate that he thinks it's possible he missed something on the list. Of course, they may not be Skills, but since he isn't making a distinction, I'm not sure it makes sense to say he thought the list was complete because he'd accounted for everyone's level and available skill points if he's also open to adding more things.

[InvisibleBison]

I dunno, Roy's "Does anyone else have any skills or talents that haven't come up yet" seems to pretty clearly indicate that he thinks it's possible he missed something on the list. Of course, they may not be Skills, but since he isn't making a distinction, I'm not sure it makes sense to say he thought the list was complete because he'd accounted for everyone's level and available skill points if he's also open to adding more things.

But again, Roy knows exactly how many skill points each person has, and how many are accounted for in his records. If, say, V had spent some skill points on Profession (astronomer) Roy wouldn't be asking "Does anyone else have any skills or talents that haven't come up yet", he'd be asking "V, what did you spend your last six skill points on?" His question only makes sense if we assume he's asking what sort of non-mechanically represented capabilites people have, because anything mechanical would either have already been mentioned or be something that he's specifically aware isn't on his list.

[Reboot]

But again, Roy knows exactly how many skill points each person has, and how many are accounted for in his records. If, say, V had spent some skill points on Profession (astronomer) Roy wouldn't be asking "Does anyone else have any skills or talents that haven't come up yet", he'd be asking "V, what did you spend your last six skill points on?" His question only makes sense if we assume he's asking what sort of non-mechanically represented capabilites people have, because anything mechanical would either have already been mentioned or be something that he's specifically aware isn't on his list.

Remember, Rich has been making fewer & fewer direct references to stuff like skill points & xp as time goes on. If Redcloak had cast a summoning spell with an xp cost back in Azure City, I doubt he would have danced around the mechanics as he did in the quinton summoning here ("piece of my soul").

[InvisibleBison]

Remember, Rich has been making fewer & fewer direct references to stuff like skill points & xp as time goes on. If Redcloak had cast a summoning spell with an xp cost back in Azure City, I doubt he would have danced around the mechanics as he did in the quinton summoning here ("piece of my soul").

So you're saying that Roy's dialogue in this comic is meant to be an indirect reference to game mechanics? I don't find that particularly convincing, given that just three panels prior Roy does explicitly mention a bunch of game mechanics, but even if it is correct, why would Roy have described his list as complete when it wasn't?

[Doug Lampert]

So you're saying that Roy's dialogue in this comic is meant to be an indirect reference to game mechanics? I don't find that particularly convincing, given that just three panels prior Roy does explicitly mention a bunch of game mechanics, but even if it is correct, why would Roy have described his list as complete when it wasn't?

Agreed.

I am convinced that the pieces of paper they have in front of them are their character sheets, and that they have already gone over the contents. They TELL US AS MUCH. Roy says so explicitly, these are a complete list of all their exact skills, feats, spells known, and magic items.

The NAME of comic 1268 is "No Skill Point".

If you don't believe that these are things with no skill points spent, then look at the NEXT Comic, where Haley is saying "I suppose I should follow my own advice and list every yo-yo trick that I know". Either, yo-yo tricks are something she's spent skill points on, or there is no reason to think any of the rest of that stuff is something anyone has spent points on.

The assumption that these are D&D skills, leads inevitably to the idea that something that we're told is a complete list is not complete, that a comic called "No Skill Point" is about things that have skill points spent (supported by a claim that Rich is no longer referencing things like skill points), and that Haley has spent skill points on an unknown but plural number of yo-yo tricks.

[Lumix19]

Random thought but can we assume that Qarr has water breathing on his spell list?

This is just based on one of his mentions in the extra strips from Don't Split The Party and I don't think imps can naturally breathe underwater?

[danielxcutter]

I mean scrolls and wands exist; in fact sorcerers probably use those even more than wizards.