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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    Too many characters? yes there are.

    On the other hand, maybe we'll never get to the end, would that be terrible? I can't make up my mind whether never getting to the end would be terrible.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    Most of the newer characters added in tend to just be there to flesh out some perspectives in different plotlines and I don't think most of them will be sticking around as major characters the way earlier in the story have. Also Cara has her own book series, so don't worry about her as much I would think.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Too many characters? yes there are.

    On the other hand, maybe we'll never get to the end, would that be terrible? I can't make up my mind whether never getting to the end would be terrible.
    I don't mind the meandering plot, but having characters like Rags and Relc disappear for real world years and the author clearly forgetting about them (Tom is the biggest of these) is somewhat frustrating.

    If there is one plot I want them to get to it's the True Antinium meeting the Painted Antinium.
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    The Painted Antinium clearly need to side with the Gnolls first and become a major power, but having Pawn meet the real Queens is going to be interesting.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I don't mind the meandering plot, but having characters like Rags and Relc disappear for real world years and the author clearly forgetting about them (Tom is the biggest of these) is somewhat frustrating.

    If there is one plot I want them to get to it's the True Antinium meeting the Painted Antinium.
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    The Painted Antinium clearly need to side with the Gnolls first and become a major power, but having Pawn meet the real Queens is going to be interesting.
    Yea the idea for Rags and Relc to sit out a book and a half or so while other characters move to the fore makes more sense on paper till you remember just how much real world time it takes when you are reading while caught up. I do think both plotlines have had some great payoff for the time spent off screen th

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    Oh yea the potential of this invasion into Gnoll territory to set off a war with the Antinium, both free hive and not, is juicy. I just want more Antinium forever.


    Oh and as a side note if anyone here listens to the audiobooks my podcast, No Killing Goblins, has an interview with the narrator, Andrea Parsneu, that is going up today or tomorrow as soon as my co host finishes editing.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Yea the idea for Rags and Relc to sit out a book and a half or so while other characters move to the fore makes more sense on paper till you remember just how much real world time it takes when you are reading while caught up. I do think both plotlines have had some great payoff for the time spent off screen th

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    Oh yea the potential of this invasion into Gnoll territory to set off a war with the Antinium, both free hive and not, is juicy. I just want more Antinium forever.


    Oh and as a side note if anyone here listens to the audiobooks my podcast, No Killing Goblins, has an interview with the narrator, Andrea Parsneu, that is going up today or tomorrow as soon as my co host finishes editing.
    It paid off really well. Relc especially had one of the best stories of the whole series.

    Spoiler: Relc
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    I'm still surprised he hasn't joined the real army, since you know.. Hectval killed Erin and his daughter is in a grudge war.


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    One reason I like this series is I'm bad at guessing the author's next moves, they veer away from traditional storytelling and also never feels out of the blue. The Death of Chains is literally one of the best moments in any series.

    So on that note, my long term prediction that the Free Antinium would end up siding with Liscor against the other queens is clearly not happening. Maybe the Free Queen replaces the Grand Queen, but it seems more likely that they move to being more independent and then rediscover the Unistasis as individuals instead of as Zerg. Bird and Crusader 51 have both done it, but they retained their individuality unlike (presumably) the True Antinium (who are classic Zerganids in how they are described so far.)
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    It paid off really well. Relc especially had one of the best stories of the whole series.

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    I'm still surprised he hasn't joined the real army, since you know.. Hectval killed Erin and his daughter is in a grudge war.
    Spoiler: Relc
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    He's lost friends and loved ones before, it's just not in him to go back to war like that and he really is blooming into a much better guardsman then he was before as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    One reason I like this series is I'm bad at guessing the author's next moves, they veer away from traditional storytelling and also never feels out of the blue. The Death of Chains is literally one of the best moments in any series.
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    I despise the Death of Chains myself, but she did have a great entrance for making me hate her so there is that



    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    So on that note, my long term prediction that the Free Antinium would end up siding with Liscor against the other queens is clearly not happening. Maybe the Free Queen replaces the Grand Queen, but it seems more likely that they move to being more independent and then rediscover the Unistasis as individuals instead of as Zerg. Bird and Crusader 51 have both done it, but they retained their individuality unlike (presumably) the True Antinium (who are classic Zerganids in how they are described so far.)[/SPOILER]
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    The True Antinium seemed to still have some sense of self and individuality within the network but the exact amount is unclear. I am really interested in how the Twisted Queens plan to give workers the power to just walk away from the Queens and become their own people spins wildly out of control in that whole situation though.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    He's lost friends and loved ones before, it's just not in him to go back to war like that and he really is blooming into a much better guardsman then he was before as well.




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    I despise the Death of Chains myself, but she did have a great entrance for making me hate her so there is that




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    The True Antinium seemed to still have some sense of self and individuality within the network but the exact amount is unclear. I am really interested in how the Twisted Queens plan to give workers the power to just walk away from the Queens and become their own people spins wildly out of control in that whole situation though.
    Spoiler: Relc
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    Relc is probably the best done character overall. Having to learn that being cheerful and friendly doesn't make him a good person is one of the best moments of writing.


    Spoiler: Death of Chains
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    What specifically do you hate about her?


    Spoiler: Antinium
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    The only ones we have met are the Centenium and the Queens, so it is hard to tell. Klbtch seems to think they were more like a single organism, but as a certain Aberration would say... !!!!!! You Klbtch.


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    Okay this is a side thing, but Ryoka having major daddy issues is one of the funniest things in the whole series. "I like older, powerful individuals who can throw me around. Usually ones who are bad parents."
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2022-03-10 at 04:14 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    Relc is probably the best done character overall. Having to learn that being cheerful and friendly doesn't make him a good person is one of the best moments of writing.


    Spoiler: Death of Chains
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    What specifically do you hate about her?


    Spoiler: Antinium
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    The only ones we have met are the Centenium and the Queens, so it is hard to tell. Klbtch seems to think they were more like a single organism, but as a certain Aberration would say... !!!!!! You Klbtch.
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    Yea, and it's clear Relc always was someone who was trying to be a good person, but he just didn't get how. I was rereading around the part where the Golden Triangle stuff happened and his reaction to realizing he ****ed up and hurt so many people crushes me.


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    She's a monster. Pure evil. I hope one day someone plants a few tank rounds directly into her soul and them sets what's left of her in fire.


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    Crusader 57 is the absolute best part of that whole arc. I do consider Klb to be a less then perfectly reliably narrator for a lot of this as well though since he just naturally has the personality of a rock... that is also a **** father.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    Yea, and it's clear Relc always was someone who was trying to be a good person, but he just didn't get how. I was rereading around the part where the Golden Triangle stuff happened and his reaction to realizing he ****ed up and hurt so many people crushes me.


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    She's a monster. Pure evil. I hope one day someone plants a few tank rounds directly into her soul and them sets what's left of her in fire.


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    Crusader 57 is the absolute best part of that whole arc. I do consider Klb to be a less then perfectly reliably narrator for a lot of this as well though since he just naturally has the personality of a rock... that is also a **** father.
    Spoiler: Relc
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    Absolutely. The part where he takes his life savings and starts handing it out is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series.


    Spoiler: Death of Magic?
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    Are we talking about the same Demon? Death of Chains is the Genie who saves slaves, Death of Magic is up there with Belvier and Az'Karrash for worst people IMO.


    Spoiler: Antinium
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    I also love how over the course of the series you see how badly the Antinium abuse the workers and soldiers, and then kill them if they break down. It's like the Doombringer arc but with 1000 times as many people, and 57 is angrier Mrsha. The scene where the priest antinium start getting the warble when confronted with the idea that their suffering isn't natural but caused by others is amazing.


    [Rhir]
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    So at this point I'm thinking what is under Rhir is a really big Old One, like Actelioush and the Mother under Liscor but bigger. The 6 god's seem more like D&D gods, and it has flesh warping abilities like Actelioush and Liscor's Mother do. The Antinium being flesh shapers seems very much in line with that rather then the deities.

    One of the really interesting side questions brought up by Roshal's Horror Ranks is whether Rashkar are actually Gnolls with horror ranks and aspects like a Flesh Eater. Humans turn into Ghouls from cannibalism, Gnolls turn into werewolves. The Florist lost a lot of her mental abilities and became really monstrous before regaining her mind from kindness.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2022-03-10 at 04:43 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Spoiler: Death of Magic?
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    Are we talking about the same Demon? Death of Chains is the Genie who saves slaves, Death of Magic is up there with Belvier and Az'Karrash for worst people IMO.


    [Rhir]
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    So at this point I'm thinking what is under Rhir is a really big Old One, like Actelioush and the Mother under Liscor but bigger. The 6 god's seem more like D&D gods, and it has flesh warping abilities like Actelioush and Liscor's Mother do. The Antinium being flesh shapers seems very much in line with that rather then the deities.

    One of the really interesting side questions brought up by Roshal's Horror Ranks is whether Rashkar are actually Gnolls with horror ranks and aspects like a Flesh Eater. Humans turn into Ghouls from cannibalism, Gnolls turn into werewolves. The Florist lost a lot of her mental abilities and became really monstrous before regaining her mind from kindness.
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    Yea you are correct, I somehow swapped Death of Chains and Death of Magic in my head. Death of Magic is one I despise and eagerly await the death of.


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    Terri did say that what was down there was not what Ryoka said it was when she called it a sleeping god, so it's way more complicated then we though. But it does react really really strongly to the gods themselves as seem by how it woke up and reacted both times god related shenanigans happened. I don't think it's the same kind of thing as Actelios is though. Or if it is it is something closer to the divine equivalent? Might be an honest to goodness Evil Demon of the classical sort? So much fodder, so many questions.

    The Rhaskgar are a bit beyond me. We know they are people, despite how close they tread the line towards being not anymore. But the bit in the recent chapter where one of them just outright states that they have an instinctive desire to just eat Gnolls who they see as food reeks of shenanigans. Could be a System thing but if it were I imagine it would be noticeable. Rhaskgar seem to be similar to vampires in that they are opted out of the system by some method unless they do specific things to get added in like say eating someone or eating someone so I don't think it's that. It might be the natural equivalent of what the horror ranks may have done though. Like take the Florist. There is all sorts of lore involved in the idea that cannibalism can cause a person to become a monster, and I have to wonder how much the system just borrowed from a natural process that it recorded at some point in time when it quantified her Horror Ranks and transformed her. Could there be some magical compulsion or instinct baked into the Rhaskgar going back to when they split off from the Gnolls in the Dragons are *******s times?
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    Yea you are correct, I somehow swapped Death of Chains and Death of Magic in my head. Death of Magic is one I despise and eagerly await the death of.


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    Terri did say that what was down there was not what Ryoka said it was when she called it a sleeping god, so it's way more complicated then we though. But it does react really really strongly to the gods themselves as seem by how it woke up and reacted both times god related shenanigans happened. I don't think it's the same kind of thing as Actelios is though. Or if it is it is something closer to the divine equivalent? Might be an honest to goodness Evil Demon of the classical sort? So much fodder, so many questions.

    The Rhaskgar are a bit beyond me. We know they are people, despite how close they tread the line towards being not anymore. But the bit in the recent chapter where one of them just outright states that they have an instinctive desire to just eat Gnolls who they see as food reeks of shenanigans. Could be a System thing but if it were I imagine it would be noticeable. Rhaskgar seem to be similar to vampires in that they are opted out of the system by some method unless they do specific things to get added in like say eating someone or eating someone so I don't think it's that. It might be the natural equivalent of what the horror ranks may have done though. Like take the Florist. There is all sorts of lore involved in the idea that cannibalism can cause a person to become a monster, and I have to wonder how much the system just borrowed from a natural process that it recorded at some point in time when it quantified her Horror Ranks and transformed her. Could there be some magical compulsion or instinct baked into the Rhaskgar going back to when they split off from the Gnolls in the Dragons are *******s times?
    Spoiler: Death of Magic
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    One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.


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    I like to imagine Sleepy (the name used on the discord) is like Prismo. It makes the Gods while it sleeps in its dreams, when it wakes up they will be gone along with possibly the whole leveling system.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.


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    I like to imagine Sleepy (the name used on the discord) is like Prismo. It makes the Gods while it sleeps in its dreams, when it wakes up they will be gone along with possibly the whole leveling system.
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    I'm fairly active on the discord, although I don't post as much as I used to. That is an interesting idea though. Might be some creature bound to the world to help power the system in some way because we know from something Ivolethe said that that world was breaking a lot of rules and that can't come cheap. Might be why risking even going near it was so dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    I'm fairly active on the discord, although I don't post as much as I used to. That is an interesting idea though. Might be some creature bound to the world to help power the system in some way because we know from something Ivolethe said that that world was breaking a lot of rules and that can't come cheap. Might be why risking even going near it was so dangerous.
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    It will be interesting to see what they do with the background system and how it works with the larger universe. Something is deliberately making that world work like a game.

    I just joined the Discord, so all the fan terms are new to me. Weird to think I have only been reading this series for two months, feels like years.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    One of the most hate worthy characters for sure. Right up there with Belvier and Nohka.
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    What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.
    Last edited by InvisibleBison; 2022-03-11 at 07:06 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    It will be interesting to see what they do with the background system and how it works with the larger universe. Something is deliberately making that world work like a game.

    I just joined the Discord, so all the fan terms are new to me. Weird to think I have only been reading this series for two months, feels like years.
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    Two Months to get up to date on The Wandering Inn? Are you an exceptionally fast speed reader?


    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
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    What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.
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    I quite like her, I think the problem is that she is exceedingly powerful, and she was introduced from the point of view of the blighted kingdom, which at that point was being implied to be good, though it now turns out to be clearly not good at all.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
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    What has the Death of Magic done that makes her so hate worthy? It's been a while since she last showed up, and I don't really remember the details of her actions. I recall that she murdered the knight who was kidnapping Ryoka and fought against the Blighted Kingdom, but neither of those seem exceptionally odious.
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    You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
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    You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?
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    There are armies doing that all over on all sides in all the wars. It looked bad because they were good guys, but they'd been hoodwinked into fighting on the wrong side. Laughing may be one aspect of PTSD. I'm not saying she's good, but she seems to be on the side of good as we are currently seeing things, though that could change again.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
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    Two Months to get up to date on The Wandering Inn? Are you an exceptionally fast speed reader?




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    I quite like her, I think the problem is that she is exceedingly powerful, and she was introduced from the point of view of the blighted kingdom, which at that point was being implied to be good, though it now turns out to be clearly not good at all.
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    I don't know, depends on what fast means? Some rough math suggests I read about 330-350 words a minute, it took me about 80-90 hours.


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    Stuff like “Let us make war until the Walled Cities crack and fall! Until I bring Wistram to wrath and ruin! Until the Death of Chains breaks all of Chandrar’s bonds! Until the world ends and the Death of Wings reclaims her homeland! Let us make glorious war. Properly. For the first time in centuries.”

    She's extremely bloodthirsty and in favor of mass murder and overthrowing civilization. I'm sure her cause is righteous, the book is pretty clear that the Demons are in the right against the World. But what she wants isn't much different from what the Grand Queen wants, or any other bad guy.

    Like she has a speech about destroying every city associated with Roshal, and overthrowing the Drakes and reimposing harpy rule. We find out later that nearly every city is associated with Roshal. End slavery and destroy Roshal, sure, but if you destroy everything associated with bad things... You destroy everything.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2022-03-11 at 08:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
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    You don't find slaughtering tens of thousands and laughing about it, or casual murder to be particularly odious?
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    Not really, no. Morally reprehensible, yes, but I don't find her all that hateable. I certainly wouldn't say that she's one of the three most hateable characters in the story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
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    Not really, no. Morally reprehensible, yes, but I don't find her all that hateable. I certainly wouldn't say that she's one of the three most hateable characters in the story.
    Who is your list?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Who is your list?
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    1. That slaver who kept people in jars.
    2. A multi-way tie between every other slaver.
    3. Rhisveri, probably, although I don't hate him so much as think his goal is bad and his methods are often immoral.
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    Spoiler: Death of Magic Sucks
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    So, let me like speak my truth on why the Death of Magic is a monster. It isn't just that she killed some people at war, lots of people do that. She outright stated that anyone not using Crelers!!!! as a weapon of war weren't trying hard enough. That was her baseline as near as we can tell. And she went out of her way to make people suffer for the sheer joy and hatred of it too. Look at those ******* Drakes from Manus, as terrible horrible no good very big pieces of **** as they were the internal monologue we got from the spear master wasn't saying to himself "how do I torture these Ants and make the last hours of their lives as painful and miserable as possible". And that bit with her and the Great Knight. Where she killed her just for being in her presence and she felt like it? Then was absolutely about to kill Ryoka too before she was stopped? That's her. She's a monster. And she is such a big monster that after seeing her in action I actually started to understand the Blighted Kingdom more. Up to that point it was really clear they were at best really shady about what actually started the war, we knew the Jester thought that there an actual peaceful resolution to the conflict without genocide (having met the Death of Magic I can only assume he was delusional), and that various others have confirmed that the Demons were not exactly the real deal as far as that term goes. But the sheer existential terror that has to result from knowing the Death of Magic EXISTS and not only want to slaughter everyone in your whole nation but then go on to do it to the entire world till she has broken every nation and power structure in existence! Despite how awful they are I actually started to feel sorry for the bleeding Blighted King! That's how pure awful the Death of Magic is.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Rynjin's Avatar

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    I'm genuinely not sure why...

    Spoiler: RE: Rhir plots
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    A lot of people seem to assume the demons are "the good guys". Just because Rhir (the kingdom) is a ****hole and teh Blighted King is a monster does not make them default the "good side". This has long seemed a case of "he who fights monsters" to me.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Lizardfolk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'm genuinely not sure why...

    Spoiler: RE: Rhir plots
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    A lot of people seem to assume the demons are "the good guys". Just because Rhir (the kingdom) is a ****hole and teh Blighted King is a monster does not make them default the "good side". This has long seemed a case of "he who fights monsters" to me.
    Spoiler: Demons
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    The setting is full of Gotchas like that with Goblins and Antinium and the like. Also the recent chapter where we discover that the Demons are working with the Antinium against Sleepy is a hint.
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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    I am enjoying these short, quick chapters.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    Me too, but I honestly was hoping Pirate would stick to what she said a few chapters ago (that she wasn't going to strain herself doing the chapter a week for her birthday thing again).

    At least this time it looks more like a normal length chapter, or slightly longer, cut into multiple pieces instead of 7 nearly full sized chapters.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    Spoiler: Tyrion
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    Sometimes this series really wants to redeem people past the redemption point. Tyrion is the only PoV character (I think) who is responsible for the deaths of several other PoV characters. He wanted to butcher two groups of civilians as a way to start Continent War IV, there's really no reason I'm going to root for him here.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Tyrion is an interesting character, and one I'm more willing to forgive than other monsters in the series.

    Spoiler: Tyrion
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    As opposed to Laken, I give Tyrion more leeway because he was born in this setting. In essence, unlike Laken, there's no reason he should "know better" than to do what he does. He's a pretty standard Lord from a feudal society, and there's thousands like him in our past, some remembered and some not. Nothing he does is particularly heinous from that perspective, as most of the named characters he kills are a race he (and most others) perceive as simply monsters. Laken has no excuse for reenacting the Trail of Tears but with goblins; Tyrion, at least, has a bit of one.

    Unlike Flos, he actually has a reason for doing what he does beyond "hurr durr I wanna conquer everything because I crave challenge". He has a true tragedy in his past that has sparked an understandable hatred, and his war on Liscor is an extension of an ongoing war with a race he sees as a monolith. This is racist, and regrettable, but not wholly inaccurate given that this air of a unified Drake nation, help up by the bastions of power (the Walled Cities) is purposefully cultivated by said Drakes.

    And perhaps most importantly, unlike those other characters he is capable of questioning his past actions and motivations, and genuinely think about them.

    Tyrion seems genuinely willing and more importantly able to learn and change.

    Finally, again unlike those other two, Tyrion is not a hypocrite. He doesn't claim to be one thing and have his actions belie the truth (like Flos has done repeatedly). He's a flawed man, living in a flawed world, doing his best...and failing, much of the time.

    While I would never call Tyrion a good PERSON, he is an excellent CHARACTER, and I love seeing him on screen, unlike the other two, superficially similar characters I'm comparing him to here.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Dragonus45's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Spoiler: Tyrion
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    Sometimes this series really wants to redeem people past the redemption point. Tyrion is the only PoV character (I think) who is responsible for the deaths of several other PoV characters. He wanted to butcher two groups of civilians as a way to start Continent War IV, there's really no reason I'm going to root for him here.
    Spoiler: Tyrion
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    I still feel really conflicted about Tyrion. On the one hand he did the entire battle of Liscor and all the bad that entails. But more then anything that is just another turn in the cycle of violence between Drakes and Humans in Izril that was itself only a retaliation for literally assassinating Tyrion's wife. A crime that was already pretty heinous when we heard it described the first time and the more we see into Tyrion and his personal life the more clear it is how devastating it really was. But recent chapters have made me think that Tyrion might have it in him to change for the better and even potentially help Magnolia in de-escalation of the Drake/Human conflict and I'm reaching a point where I'm willing to judge him on who he is becoming rather then who he was before. The last thing I really need from him is for him to admit he was wrong at the Battle of Liscor.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: The Wandering Inn

    Somebody needs to put Ryoka back on her meds so she at least doesn't have an excuse for her poor decision making anymore.

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