Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
+2. this seems yet another "we whine whenever we fail, and we try to push back at the dm until he let us win" talekeal group drama
It rarely escalates to the level of drama and it has been a problem with multiple groups over the years.

I honestly don't even think the players notice they are doing it; they are just trying to get every advantage they can (like an invested player should), and don't see how doing it this way is "exploiting" the system.

I have a similar problem with D&D players who just expect to try an action over and over again because a lot of DMs call for rolls when there is no cost or time constraint for failure and are more or less just letting the players roll some dice for fun even though the outcome was never in doubt.