More Bleach!?

[Rater202]

I think he's also stated that his instinct when coming up with a plot point is "make a new character" as opposed to looking back and seeing who could fit in here.

Kenpachi's dance with Unohana is one of Bleach's best moments and it's been hinted at and alluded to for the whole series, for an example of what Kubo's writing can look like with focus and time to breath.

Yeah. There's that... And people at the time complained about it being kind of an asspull, but the Flashback mini-arc and its aftermath is another good example.

We had, sometimes going way to back the early part of the manga, 1: The idea that there was something special about Masaki. 2: Ichigo's bizarre resemblance to Kaine Shiba. 3: Isshin's statement about how slaying the Grand Fisher did not satisfy his desire to avenge Masaki, 4: The fact that Isshin and Ryuken clearly have a long history with each other and with Urahara 4: Ichigo's inner hollow not acting consistently with how the visored got their hollows and describe their's as acting. 5: Ichigo's Inner Hollow looking him dead in the eye and saying "I am Zangetsu" with an expression of "oh my god you are such an idiot." 6: Aizen's claims that he'd been aware of Ichigo literally all of his life. and 7: In the mini-arc of Ichigo awakening his own spiritual power after the donated power that Rukia gave him was destroyed, Ichigo explcitly copies Uryu's Quincy technique for tracking spiritual power and identifying human power from Shinigami to find his Zanpakuto and afterward Zangetsu teaches him an air walking technique that is identical to how Uryu would describe the Quincy air walking an high speed movement techniques later in the same arc.

And, possibly, Tsukishima rewriting himself into Yuzu and Karin's memories as "Cousin Shu," who they met a the funeral of a great uncle. The only known weakness of Book of The End is that Tsukishima has to take the place of someone when he inserts himself into your past, so... It is entirely possible that that was subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's second cousin*

With all of that context... The only part of that mini-arc and the follow-up of Ichigo's Zanpakuto being reforged that wasn't either set up in advance or practically spelled out to us was the fact that the old man as a representation of Ichigo's repressed Quincy powers... And, well, people had been joking about how Yhwach looked like Zangetsu literally from the moment we got a Yhwach face reveal.

...and there was a promotional image of Ichigo at the bottom and all of his "rivals" stacked on top of each other with a silhouette of Zangetsu being at the top.

So...Yeah. It got exactly as much time as it needed. Could it have been better? Yeah, but...

*Can I say that the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's cousin and the implication that they'd met each other in that context makes the "Quincy Archer hates you" mini-arc from the beginning of the manga funnier in context? IT Introduces Uryu as someone that Ichigo just doesn't know about or recognize despite having been in the same classes for years and Uryu is somewhat frustrated by Ichigo's ignornace of Quincy as a concept and the rivalry between Shinigami and Quincy.

Uryu: "...I waited all my life to test myself against a Shinigami... And it's my cousin. My cousin... Who as far as I know is literally the only other living Quincy besides me and my dad. And he has both completly forgotten that I exist, and has no idea what the implications of a Quincy becoming a Shinigami are or even that Quincy are a thing. God ****ing Damn It. Okay, I can work with this."

[Anonymouswizard]

Oh no the two girls are still the protagonists, he's just the third wheel tertiary protagonist.

He's not related to the sword, he's related to the STORY of the sword. He's likely going to become part dragon and be the Sword In The Stone dragon, like how the girl in BTW was the partner of the Cinderella dragon, who is likely going to become like that one.

Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.


At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

[BloodSquirrel]

At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

As I've noted before, he works best with a blank slate and a limited run. Part of what made the SS arc good was that he had a lot of open space to freely explore what he wanted and not a lot of baggage going in to weight him down. For the rest of the manga, the Gotei 13 kept sucking the air out of the room in every story arc, and Kubo wasn't very good at moving them forward as characters.

Burn the Witch, for whatever failings it has, feels like Kubo still has a handle on what the story is supposed to be doing. It's a bit thin so far, but it feels more like early Bleach where he was telling one smaller story at a time.

[Rater202]

Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.

He's already turned a flute into a lightsaber.

[LaZodiac]

Naruto's final arc covered far more narrative ground in about the same number of chapters. I'm not sure by what metric you can sent it went "rather fast", other than that, in retrospect, not much actually happened during the whole thing.

Bleach chapters are over fast. Not much dialogue and even the dialogue there tends to go pretty quickly, or flows well enough you don't hit a feeling of boredom. Naruto chapters dragged so much.

Yeah. There's that... And people at the time complained about it being kind of an asspull, but the Flashback mini-arc and its aftermath is another good example.

We had, sometimes going way to back the early part of the manga, 1: The idea that there was something special about Masaki. 2: Ichigo's bizarre resemblance to Kaine Shiba. 3: Isshin's statement about how slaying the Grand Fisher did not satisfy his desire to avenge Masaki, 4: The fact that Isshin and Ryuken clearly have a long history with each other and with Urahara 4: Ichigo's inner hollow not acting consistently with how the visored got their hollows and describe their's as acting. 5: Ichigo's Inner Hollow looking him dead in the eye and saying "I am Zangetsu" with an expression of "oh my god you are such an idiot." 6: Aizen's claims that he'd been aware of Ichigo literally all of his life. and 7: In the mini-arc of Ichigo awakening his own spiritual power after the donated power that Rukia gave him was destroyed, Ichigo explcitly copies Uryu's Quincy technique for tracking spiritual power and identifying human power from Shinigami to find his Zanpakuto and afterward Zangetsu teaches him an air walking technique that is identical to how Uryu would describe the Quincy air walking an high speed movement techniques later in the same arc.

And, possibly, Tsukishima rewriting himself into Yuzu and Karin's memories as "Cousin Shu," who they met a the funeral of a great uncle. The only known weakness of Book of The End is that Tsukishima has to take the place of someone when he inserts himself into your past, so... It is entirely possible that that was subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's second cousin*

With all of that context... The only part of that mini-arc and the follow-up of Ichigo's Zanpakuto being reforged that wasn't either set up in advance or practically spelled out to us was the fact that the old man as a representation of Ichigo's repressed Quincy powers... And, well, people had been joking about how Yhwach looked like Zangetsu literally from the moment we got a Yhwach face reveal.

...and there was a promotional image of Ichigo at the bottom and all of his "rivals" stacked on top of each other with a silhouette of Zangetsu being at the top.

So...Yeah. It got exactly as much time as it needed. Could it have been better? Yeah, but...

*Can I say that the fact that Uryu is Ichigo's cousin and the implication that they'd met each other in that context makes the "Quincy Archer hates you" mini-arc from the beginning of the manga funnier in context? IT Introduces Uryu as someone that Ichigo just doesn't know about or recognize despite having been in the same classes for years and Uryu is somewhat frustrated by Ichigo's ignornace of Quincy as a concept and the rivalry between Shinigami and Quincy.

Uryu: "...I waited all my life to test myself against a Shinigami... And it's my cousin. My cousin... Who as far as I know is literally the only other living Quincy besides me and my dad. And he has both completly forgotten that I exist, and has no idea what the implications of a Quincy becoming a Shinigami are or even that Quincy are a thing. God ****ing Damn It. Okay, I can work with this."

From the people I've talked with, most people were BIG into the Kenpachi Unohana stuff, and anyone could see the stuff leading up to it.

I wish Ishida did more because "Ishida realizing he's related to Ichigo and just getting really annoyed by it" is a very funny idea.

Ah, okay. He's the 'boys totally can't related to anything with boobs' character. So at least there's still reason to hate him.

Plus, I still fully expect him to end up with a big sword if BTW continues. Probably Excalibur, despite it's shaky relationship with the stone and the fact that it shouldn't be that large.

At the core of Bleach is a decent story with good setup, but the way Kubo works means it's buried under a lot of bloat. With good editing or a fast pace it can work, but for most of the series he didn't have either. Plus I think he kind of needs the former for the latter.

As Rater said, he made a lightsaber out of a angelic chorus horn. It's sort of like a cavalry bugle, it kinda rules but also is so unbelievably stupid and I hate it and love it in equal measure.

He's already turned a flute into a lightsaber.

It was a heraldic angel's horn. If I recall, anyway, it's been awhile. In my head it is a little trumpet for honking.

[Rater202]

Backtracking a bit...

I like the unique powers that people have because it gives you an insight into the character.

Kenpachi's unique power, in its true form, grants him infinite power but not the ability to withstand it while transforming him into a berserking demon.

It is represented as a cute little girl with bright pink hair who loves candy and tea parties.

Those two facts together say a lot about who and what Kenpachi is.

[DeadMech]

I've only just watched the trailer for the thousand year blood arc and as someone who read it and wasn't super impressed or entertained at the time. I haven't mustered the interest to watch or read Burn the Witch...

That trailer is 100% hype and I'm in.

Bleach might not be the deepest story Or the most consistent. But it always had the aesthetic that blew everything else out of the water.

Half the reason I haven't watched or read One Piece is because of just how ugly and childish I found it's character designs when i first saw it. Is that fair to One Piece? No, probably not. Does it suggest I might be a shallow individual. Maybe.

The other reason of course being "I am how far behind now? Forget it."

[Ramza00]

Bleach is more than an aesthetic, even though the aesthetic is great. It is also a weird and alien world. Everything is different but it makes kind of sense.

For example Ichigo has no desires that is typical of a teenager but makes sense as an adult. Part of this is due to childhood he understood there is an afterlife and there is a place and proper role to things. The world is strange to his eyes, but he did not have the need to ask questions like a toddler in order to process and understand them. Ichigo tamps down his curiosity, the part that provides resistance yet also is the source of asking questions. It is not ironic that his rivals and mentors with Ichigo and Hat Man Kisuke are completely unlike him. Furthermore Ichigo had an idyllic childhood and it was not till he was 8 did he know tragedy with his mom dying. Ichigo is haunted by this and now this provided his compulsive drive of protecting people like a big brother, even though he simultaneously knows this is absurd for he has seen spirits in the after life since an earlier childhood years.

————

Likewise Soul Society, 13 squads, the Five Noble Families, the Lesser Noble Families, Central 46 and the Rukoun districts all make a kind of sense. People do not need food, thus production is fundamentally different in the after life, everything is more subsistence and there is not the driving force of class conflict where one group of people is trying to extort another group of people for taxes, money, production, etc. How much of human society would be different if you change key human drives and instinct, no wonder why Soul Society and this heaven seems alien.

Now the 13 squads they have spirit pressure but also have needs such as requiring food to survive, and their lifetime is insane some of the time where characters are 2000 years old and some of the captains are many times that in age. They have a purpose which is to preserve the recreation and flow of souls or everything topples. Like the recreation and flow of food in our real life, or perhaps money and other things tided to the economy.

Now everything else about soul society feelings alienating with a lack of bonds, memories of past life’s and lost family members, and so on. Sure you have new families and bonds, but I sense a lot of unprocessed trauma and loneliness. And that word is what drives the story with so many characters.

————

Lastly one of the highlights of Bleach are the backstories, but this is also one of the biggest flaws of the series. The backstories are self contained, good, and are a quick 1 page summary. For shallow backstories they are well developed and empathetic. But they rarely developed. Furthermore they are hit or miss and when you get 30 of them sometimes later ones do not land, and you feel the need to skip them even if they are short. Thankfully in later chapters we see some of the captains and vice captains shift from a back story arc to something else drive the conflict, like their own ego and blind spot to this particular issue driving the fight. Pride, Vanity, Greed, Glutony, Forcefulness, etc these very weird characters are so human sometimes in a series that is about loneliness.

[Rater202]

The corruption in Soul Society also makes a lot of sense.

Yamamoto was the most powerful Shinigami when he founded the 13 divisions and not a single Shinigami stronger than him has been born since then so he's still in charge.

Yamamoto's Zanpakuto is basically a man-portable WMD and he has enough raw power to use it indefinitely—it's mostly fear of collateral damage ha stops him from spamming it.

Yamamoto... Refuses to question orders. He refuses to second guess the rules.

Like, it's flat out said that execution is not the legal sentence for what Rukia did... and that in the grand scheme of things, a Shinigami giving their power to a mortal, while forbidden, is really only a minor offense. And yet, Yamamoto outright refuses to think "maybe something's up."

Central 46 and the nobles growing corrupt is pretty much an inevitable consequence of the biggest guy around refusing to question orders even if he disagrees with them. Because they have a walking nuke enforcing their every whim, nobody questions them, so over the generations... Yeah.

See also: The Blood War arc where the new Central 46 gives Kyoraku orders he disagrees with and he just says "no" and... Tha's the end of it, they have no other means of enforcing their will but 'the head captain does it."

Or how they didn't try to overturn Yamamoto's War Time decision to overturn the previous administration's complete bull****.

Once the Military is no longer following orders blindly... The corruption more or less dies. Even in the novel, the one corrupt noble big bad is opposed by the Shinigami

[Psyren]

I'm finally getting caught up on My Hero Academia (just started S3) and I'm definitely seeing a big contrast to Bleach. Main character has motivations other than "protect friends" which can often clash in interesting ways, the entire cast gets to shine at various points, the worldbuilding is stellar, the action is varied and exciting etc. I'm not saying all that to dunk on Bleach, but it is good to see subsequent shonen anime learning from some of their forebears' mistakes.

[danzibr]

October 2022 (for Japan)

You just made my day.

So the whole point of Can't Fear Yoru Own Word is that Kubo was sharing some stuff about Bleach that he wanted to do but couldn't for various reasons, or explanations of things he had to cut for time,a dns o on with Ryōgo Narita, wh o thought it was all cool and asked if it would beokay to do something with that, so Kbo wrote up an outline and proofread the drafts.

Like.. Shuhei, the guy who looks like a blackhaired Ichigo but unlike Kaien it never comes up or gets explained? Kubo originally created him with the intent that he'd eventually be the protagonist of an arc, so his uncanny resemblance to Ichigo was a metajoke on his part about his "protagonist-like qualities." The plot of Can't Fear Your Own world is Shuhei, in his capacity as publisher of Shinigami Communications and an investigative Journalist, tracking people down to find out the truth of all that happened over the last couple of years.

Which is how, for example, we learn Ginjo's backstory: He goes to the Shiba compound in the Rukon and asks him his side of the story.

and as he's doing this, he ends up engrossed in yet another conspiracy.

Other things we learned from this novel 1: Following his Death, Yhwach's body was subjected to a process that turned into a replacement for the soul king. This process is horrifying and everyone who finds out how it worked, and that the original Soul King was also subjected to it, unanimously agrees that Aizen had a valid point.

2: The Royal Guard trained up Ichigo not to fight Yhwach but to do this to Ichigo, having figured that the loss of the orignal Soul King was inevitable, and its only the fact that Yhwach absorbed the remains of the original that spared him this fate.

3: Any entity that combines the traits of Living Human, Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy can potentially become a Soul King.

4: The Noble that was married to and then murdered Tousen's friend belongs to a family whose job is just to monitor everything in Soul Society. He knows exactly how the orignal Soul King came to be... and decides that since the original Five Noble Famiys who founded Soul Society got away with something utterly inexcusable that he has the right to be as big of a bastard as he wants.

5: Yhwach was one of The Soul King's removed organs—his "Almighty Power" incarnated as a human.

6: Gremmy was the Soul King's Brain.

7: The portion of her soul that was ripped out of Matsumoto in her backstory by Aizen's men in order to make his Hogyoku was the nail that affixed the Soul King's chain of fate to his body. It embedded itself in a random soul and has been passing itself down a lineage ever since.

8: Fullbringer's are essentially reality warpers. One of the bad guy's minions is a fullbringer woman who inherited the Soul King's chain under the same circumstances. Her Spiritual Power is comparable to Aizen's as a shinigami and she can do things like turn intangible, manipulate organic matter at the atomic level to create a bland paste that is perfectly sustaining to human life if eaten, and turn a lake into a water dragon and a chunk of the earth into a fire dragon.

None of these are "her" Fullbring. she doesn't have her own Fullbring,becuase she doesn't have the capacity for sentimentality needed to channel a power through a beloved personal item.

9: The inconsistency with Ise's Zanpakuto is explained: In addition to the Shashi that draw out their wilder's hidden power, Nimaiya aslo forged unique swords that behaved in the same pattern, one ofr each of the Five Noble Clans of Soul society, that can be used by members of those clans.

In addition to Ise's God Killing Sword, the Kuchki Clan's family Zampakuto is Muramasa from the Zanpkuto Rebellion Arc(he doesn't appear but despite that arc being non-canon Muramasa is more or less described as being exactly the same, sans not being someone's personal Zanpakuto) and the big bad's family has a Zampakuto whose Shikai can counter any Zanpakuto ability and whose Bankai can replicate any Zampakuo ability that its current wielder has witnessed—with the caveat that you use your own power to fuel it.

The remaining Heridatry Zanpkuto—and whether the Shiba Clan still has theirs—are unrevealed.

10: Ichibe has the power to revive himself from death as long as someone remembers his name, and he can resurrect the other members of Squad Zero by chanting their names.

11: Squad Zero answers directly to the Noble Houses. The Noble houses, if they vote unanimously, can disband Central 46 and assume absolute control of Soul Society. This is currently impossible however due to the Shiba Clan's effective exile and lack of a head—though the big bad wants them reinstated for exactly this purpose.

12: Isshin is apparently the rightful head of the Shiba Clan, though neither he nor Ichigo are interested in assuming those duties.

13: Preteens are fully capable of being Clan HEads in soul society, as the Big Bad flat out says "Maybe one of his daughters would be interested" when told the above.

14: If you survive Ashwuallen, the powers Yhwach stole from you will eventually come back, the powers he stole from you are returned upon death.

15: The Forest of Menos Arc from the anime is canon.(to be fair, Kubo intended to put it in the manga)

16: This guy exists.

1: Orihime being a fullbringer is confirmed in the novel.

2: Yhwach presents himself as the son of the soul king and, per the Novel, is one of his autonomous organs—Yhwach's Schrift isn't The Almighty so much as Yhwach himself is The Almighty personified.

So it's less that the original Soul King had Quincy in him so much as Quincy powers are derived from an aspect of his own power.

The orignal Soul King was essentially a unique entity. The replacement Soul Kings are just... Rough approximations.

Ginjo has basically the same backstory as Ichigo—a human with both soul reaper and Quincy ancestry, whose mother was attacked by a hollo and infected and passed on that hallow essence when he was gestating in her womb, resulting in a natural hybrid of all four souls, who then had his spiritual powers awakened by a donation of power from a shinigami.

The implication is that the reason Soul Society claimed his body was becuase they wanted his corpse as a backup Soul King, and the big bad of the novel tries to re-kill Ginjo in sou society to remove him as a potential soul king since his own lan involves replacing the Soul King with Hikone in order to tweak the universe to be more to his liking.

Per the backstory revealed in the novel: Originally, the spiritual world and the material world were one and the same and everyone was immortal. However, things were... chaotic. Hollows rather than corrupted human souls just... Sort of spontaneously came into existence, some of whom were born as Menos or even Vasto Lordes. Barragan is explicitly stated to have been born in this time, as based on his one-shot manga in the Masks databook Ulquiorra probably was as well.

The Soul King was sort of a defense mechanism: A ridiculously overpowered humanoid eldritch abomination that destroyed hollows. However, when he destroyed them, they were destroyed utterly. Which included the entities they devoured.

Furthermore, over time a horrid abyss began to open in reality... Hell.

The five families that ruled the world grew fearful of the Soul King's power, saw hell as a problem, and wished to stabilize reality...

So they bound the Soul King, removed his arms and legs, disemboweled and lobotomized him, and used his hollowed-out living corpse as the lynchpin of a ritual that broke the universe.

The spiritual world was permanently torn from the material world, and was in turn split into Hueco Mundo and Soul Society. The Material world was then used as a "lid" to contain Hell, which was repurposed as a ghetto for unwanted souls or beings that don't fit into the system.

Mostly evil people... But you'll notice that hollows that go to Hell are still hollows which indicates that they're probably still composed of all the souls they ate. Not to mention what the Hell teaser chapter revealed about Shinigami funerary rites.

In BLeach's cosmology, the reason people die is becuase some people committed unprovoked deicide out of fear.

I think we've all noted how Bleach's afterlife sucks much bad... It's that way becuase it was never supposed to exist.

Aizen and Yhewach weren't bad guys becuase of what they wanted to do. They were bad guys becuase of the extremes they were willing to go to do it.

Bleach isn't a conflict between good and evil. It's a conflict between "protect the current status quo and look on the bright side" vs "try to change to a better system at the cost of a hell of a lot of lives."

The Five Noble Family of t Soul Society are the descendants of the people who did that to the Soul King.

Holy smokes man. Your Bleach knowledge is next level. Very interesting.

I'm finally getting caught up on My Hero Academia (just started S3) and I'm definitely seeing a big contrast to Bleach. Main character has motivations other than "protect friends" which can often clash in interesting ways, the entire cast gets to shine at various points, the worldbuilding is stellar, the action is varied and exciting etc. I'm not saying all that to dunk on Bleach, but it is good to see subsequent shonen anime learning from some of their forebears' mistakes.

Biggest pro for MHA: it has All Might.

[Psyren]

Biggest pro for MHA: it has All Might.

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.

[LaZodiac]

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.

The best part about All Might as a mentor is that he's equal parts outstanding as he is ****ing garbage. He is an amazing, inspirational, overwhelming inspiration.

He is one of the worst actual teachers I've ever seen. Not trying to rip on the man, but that Teaching For Dummies book REALLY helped, and it's not his fault that he's a savant who's never HAD to learn, so never learned TO learn, and thus can't teach for ****.

I'm trying to think if anyone in Bleach is like that; a unique twist on a standard figure (All Might being a rather unique twist on the mentor figure, in that his mentoring is all in inspiration and ideals, not abilities).

[Psyren]

Totally agreed. He's one of the worst teachers I've ever seen in shonen. He's also one of the most heroic, courageous and dedicated characters I've seen too. And of course, he had the good fortune of encountering, and later empowering, one of the most intelligent and strategic shonen protagonists I've seen in a long time.

Okay, I'll gush about MHA another time, this is a Bleach thread

[LaZodiac]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

[Rater202]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

I mean, that never really went away—after the time skip he's shown to be an honor student that all the clubs and sports teams are fighting over and he's also got a part-time job—it just stopped being relevant.

A lot of shonen anime tie intelligence directly to Wisdom, tactical knowledge, and the ability to learn new skills.

Ichigo... Quite realistically, never really has an opportunity to learn any of that. Why doesn't he cast Kido spells? He's always too busy mastering the basic powers/cheating the system to get strong enough/making sure the hollow half of his soul doesn't eat the rest of of him to crack open a spellbook.

why does his fighting style mostly rely on charging, attacking, or blasting? Because a brute force approach always worked with the punks who'd pick fights with him or Sado or the little ****s who'd vandalize graves and memorials so that's what he defaults to and he never really has an opportunity to learn more than the basics of shinigami combat.

Don't matter how smart you are if you don't have an opportunity to learn or don't care to learn something.

...And well, Bleach also realistically establishes that intelligence is not the same as wisdom, observational skills, or common sense. Ichigo is near the top of the class but misreads Uryu's name and has no idea who it is despite them having been in the same class for years... and are related... And it being implied that they met at a funeral where they were introduced to each other as cousins.

And wasn't Orihime presented as being the best student in the class? Despite... Being Orihime.

[Ramza00]

Honestly that's what I miss about the earliest of early Bleach. Ichigo used to be SMART. He used to be clever, and wily. A punk who was actually secretly pretty bright.

Yep an intuitive / kinesthetic learning who did not ask questions and thus does not talk much (except when he talks too much with conflict / bravado.)

Which makes him interesting for all his opponents are either people who have all the knowledge due to cultural experience living in the culture, or are the nerdy people who have figured the further beyond veils more than the cloister-etic soul society.

[DeadMech]

The best part about All Might as a mentor is that he's equal parts outstanding as he is ****ing garbage. He is an amazing, inspirational, overwhelming inspiration.

He is one of the worst actual teachers I've ever seen. Not trying to rip on the man, but that Teaching For Dummies book REALLY helped, and it's not his fault that he's a savant who's never HAD to learn, so never learned TO learn, and thus can't teach for ****.

I'm trying to think if anyone in Bleach is like that; a unique twist on a standard figure (All Might being a rather unique twist on the mentor figure, in that his mentoring is all in inspiration and ideals, not abilities).

... Zaraki maybe.

Okay so Kenpachi is the captain of the 11th division and is the only Captain we see really training with their underlings that I can remember. He is a natural fighting prodigy who relies on a head on brute strength approach. His underlings are inspired by him and aspire to replicate his prowess. Given that one of his training montage power ups was actually being taught to hold a sword in two hands it's questionable what of value he can teach his subordinates. Aside from perhaps just resilience as he steam rolls through them en mass.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, that never really went away—after the time skip he's shown to be an honor student that all the clubs and sports teams are fighting over and he's also got a part-time job—it just stopped being relevant.

A lot of shonen anime tie intelligence directly to Wisdom, tactical knowledge, and the ability to learn new skills.

Ichigo... Quite realistically, never really has an opportunity to learn any of that. Why doesn't he cast Kido spells? He's always too busy mastering the basic powers/cheating the system to get strong enough/making sure the hollow half of his soul doesn't eat the rest of of him to crack open a spellbook.

why does his fighting style mostly rely on charging, attacking, or blasting? Because a brute force approach always worked with the punks who'd pick fights with him or Sado or the little ****s who'd vandalize graves and memorials so that's what he defaults to and he never really has an opportunity to learn more than the basics of shinigami combat.

Don't matter how smart you are if you don't have an opportunity to learn or don't care to learn something.

...And well, Bleach also realistically establishes that intelligence is not the same as wisdom, observational skills, or common sense. Ichigo is near the top of the class but misreads Uryu's name and has no idea who it is despite them having been in the same class for years... and are related... And it being implied that they met at a funeral where they were introduced to each other as cousins.

And wasn't Orihime presented as being the best student in the class? Despite... Being Orihime.

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

[Lord Raziere]

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

Yeah like, DBZ has incredible power to blast planets apart and all they do with it is blast and punch? come on, have some imagination.

[Anonymouswizard]

That's all well and good but I think it'd be better if his intelligence was more relevant. Like how Dragonball eventually gave way to nothing but raw intense power blasts- it'd be cooler if technique and skill and intellect was more important to the fights than raw power for everyone.

I think that's one of the reasons that Fullmetal Alchemist is so good. No massive powerups, the two strongest characters have practically no fighting skills, and the third strongest has their best moments when having to overcome setbacks.

Meanwhile I often forget that Ichigo is supposed to be intelligent, it just doesn't matter, and unlike Edward he's never really shown having to deduce information.

[Vahnavoi]

Zaraki Kenpachi's most interesting moments in the series are when he either pays the price for being a dumb brute or has to step outside that archetype. Perhaps more hilariously, two of his opponents lose because they try to out-Kenpachi Kenpachi instead of playing to their own strengths. Gremmy being the better example, because his demise due to trying to copy Kenpachi foreshadows Kenpachi ripping himself apart (twice!) later. Turns out, no-one can withstand power overwhelming - not even the guy with that power.

[Ramza00]

Zaraki Kenpachi's most interesting moments in the series are when he either pays the price for being a dumb brute or has to step outside that archetype. Perhaps more hilariously, two of his opponents lose because they try to out-Kenpachi Kenpachi instead of playing to their own strengths. Gremmy being the better example, because his demise due to trying to copy Kenpachi foreshadows Kenpachi ripping himself apart (twice!) later. Turns out, no-one can withstand power overwhelming - not even the guy with that power.

Grammy lost out of ego and past / developmental reasons. He is a brain without a body, yet he is still vulnerable. Thus imagination is all he got, and he must imagine things his body lacks that others have naturally due to drive, instinct, sensory proprioception aka sensory feedback, etc.

When you have power bestowal as your power set it messes you up psychologically, what is real when one can modify the real to such an extent to gratify the ego, and thus anything that assaults the ego ideal must be challenged on the knife’s domain for you wounded it in a narcissistic injury kind of way. Much like giving a teenager the power to read and manipulate emotions will slowly turn her or him into a shallow sociopath for teenagers hate negative feedback from their peers.

Thus Zenpachi is super-effective against such an opponent and the fates were not smiling on Grammy that day by assigning him that specific captain as his opponent.

[LaZodiac]

I think that's one of the reasons that Fullmetal Alchemist is so good. No massive powerups, the two strongest characters have practically no fighting skills, and the third strongest has their best moments when having to overcome setbacks.

Meanwhile I often forget that Ichigo is supposed to be intelligent, it just doesn't matter, and unlike Edward he's never really shown having to deduce information.

The one, ONE time someone gets a big boost to their abilities... everyone gets it, because they did a thing that undoes a limiter on the world, and even then all it's really used for is "slightly better than normal effects" because FMA is basically perfect, and the ideal I strive for every day.

Meanwhile Ichigo just blasts his sword kamehameha at god and since we're run out of time to finish the series proper it kills him.

[Anonymouswizard]

The one, ONE time someone gets a big boost to their abilities... everyone gets it, because they did a thing that undoes a limiter on the world, and even then all it's really used for is "slightly better than normal effects" because FMA is basically perfect, and the ideal I strive for every day.

There's also only one character with an ability completely unique to them, and even then it makes logical sense. But yeah, it's all really well thought out and explained.

Unless you're watching the 2003 anime.

EDIT: we also see Ed and Al sit down and research or solve problems several times. We're told they're intelligent and the story keeps it relevant. It's also interesting that while Al might be a better alchemist Ed is the superior academic.

Meanwhile Ichigo just blasts his sword kamehameha at god and since we're run out of time to finish the series proper it kills him.

You know, I think I got tired of it all after Ichigo lost all his powers for a second time, did training to develop a (at least temporarily) weaker set of powers, and then lost them. Only to then suddenly regain his old powers with no effort and nab a massive power boost at the same time.

And then we go through an entire war arc that establishes even his next power up isn't enough, and then the bit you bring up happened.

[ben-zayb]

All Might is indeed the best shonen mentor figure I've seen in awhile. It's nice when they can come up with believable flaws for a mentor that aren't just "lazy," "pervert," "drunk," or some mixture of the three.

I'm not sure how recent you want it to be considering this was just 2 years before MHA came out, but Korosensei from Assassination Classroom (2012) is one of if not arguably the best shonen mentor figure.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not sure how recent you want it to be considering this was just 2 years before MHA came out, but Korosensei from Assassination Classroom (2012) is one of if not arguably the best shonen mentor figure.

He dibs a little too much into the perv trait, but he IS a pretty good teacher.

[Rater202]

So apparently a while back Kubo said in a Q&A that all of the Visored, explicitly including Ichigo, are theoretically capable of achieving Ressureccion. That wasn't a "Tousen" exclusive power.

Considering that Can't Fear Your Own WOrld confirms that Ichigo got the powers Yhwach took from him back, but the Hell Chapter shows him still wielding what looks like his broken Bankai, I'm wondering if that's not gonna play into things if and whn the story picks up. I kind of doubt that Nimiya's gonna reforge it again so Ichigo might need an alternat emethod of accessing his full power.

[Anteros]

Well, we all know that if there's a power out there to collect that Ichigo will end up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends with him wearing Orihime's hair pins.

[LaZodiac]

Well, we all know that if there's a power out there to collect that Ichigo will end up with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends with him wearing Orihime's hair pins.

I mean they are married you shouldn't discount it.