A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1171
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    That's a tricky prospect. Some things, like RWBY, elicit the correct response you'd be looking for here.

    Others make me realize that even this unbelievable unrefined trash-fire is more popular than I'll ever be, so why even bother anymore.
    Nope. your thinking too popular, too well made. anything officially published by anyone, is not bad enough for what I'm talking about.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".



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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Spoiler: Part of me wishes to be this monstrocity
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    Ohdon't mind me, I'm just a dracomorphic embodiment of mechanized warfare... Also, I can somehow fly without wings or rockets.
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  3. - Top - End - #1173
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Others make me realize that even this unbelievable unrefined trash-fire is more popular than I'll ever be, so why even bother anymore.
    I don't know what makes you so certain that you'll never sell even a single copy of any of your books, but I can assure you that's false.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Nope. your thinking too popular, too well made. anything officially published by anyone, is not bad enough for what I'm talking about.
    Eh... arguable. I had a specific example in my brain when I said that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Spoiler: Part of me wishes to be this monstrocity
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    Ohdon't mind me, I'm just a dracomorphic embodiment of mechanized warfare... Also, I can somehow fly without wings or rockets.
    God, Digimon designs are a special kind of goofy.

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I don't know what makes you so certain that you'll never sell even a single copy of any of your books, but I can assure you that's false.
    I mean I've sold a few, but it's just something that pokes into my skin like a thistle sometimes. This idea that I'm not actually good at this, that no one cares, that I'll be forgotten.


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  5. - Top - End - #1175
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    God, Digimon designs are a special kind of goofy.
    That's not even the half of it. the main guns shoot miniature nukes with a blast radius of 30 km.

    ...But no range is given. So for all, we know this thing could be nuking itself every time it shoots the main gun.
    This idea that I'm not actually good at this, that no one cares, that I'll be forgotten.
    I'm pretty sure everyone feels like this.

    Anyway, a lot of best-selling books get that way because the author or publisher ordered a bunch of copies themselves to get them on a list of high-selling books.

    Or at least that's what I've heard.

    Don't feel bad because you can't cheat the system.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2022-01-13 at 07:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
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  6. - Top - End - #1176
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    I mean I've sold a few
    Well, you are not doomed to be less popular than the people you're already more popular then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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  7. - Top - End - #1177
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    I imagine any new artist trying to make their entrance is going to find that very difficult. You're starting out with zero name recognition after all and without any already established work under your belt. And of course not everyone gets to to break through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    As for writing, my current plan for getting people to read my work is to get a short story or eight in a magazine. Eventually somebody will read one out of boredom.
    I think that H.P. Lovecraft and some of his contemporaries did the same thing: publishing short stories in pulp fiction magazine. I don't know if they actually started out that way, but it makes sense if they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That's not even the half of it. the main guns shoot miniature nukes with a blast radius of 30 km.

    ...But no range is given. So for all, we know this thing could be nuking itself every time it shoots the main gun.
    I'm pretty sure everyone feels like this.
    This reminds me of the Davy Crockett nuclear mortar. It's the shortest range nuclear weapon I'm aware of. It's, erhm, let's say delightfully insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Anyway, a lot of best-selling books get that way because the author or publisher ordered a bunch of copies themselves to get them on a list of high-selling books.

    Or at least that's what I've heard.
    This is the first time I've heard of this. Where did you get this notion from?

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    I have a couple of different sources—including the existence of a firm that exists more or less to facilitate bulk ordering your own book—but I'm having the damndest time finding an article that isn't either hidden behind a paywall or on a website with questionable cookie policies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  9. - Top - End - #1179
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Anyway, a lot of best-selling books get that way because the author or publisher ordered a bunch of copies themselves to get them on a list of high-selling books.

    Or at least that's what I've heard.
    As someone studying publishing right now (as in I am currently in class), I would like a source for that claim that goes directly against all I know about the economics of that market.
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  10. - Top - End - #1180
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    As someone studying publishing right now (as in I am currently in class), I would like a source for that claim that goes directly against all I know about the economics of that market.
    Hve you heard of ResultSource Inc? It's a corporate firm whose business model is "charge the author a couple of thousand dollars to make multiple orders of the author's own book."

    Or at least it was. The article's a few years out of date.

    The point is... You don't run a business doing that if there's not a market for it.

    I've also found three examples, one from 2020 and two from 2017, about people either bulk ordering their own book or having people do it on their behalf outside of that firm, but the article is on a website with questionable cookie policies.

    "A lot" may have been an exaggeration.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2022-01-14 at 04:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
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  11. - Top - End - #1181
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Form View Post
    I think that H.P. Lovecraft and some of his contemporaries did the same thing: publishing short stories in pulp fiction magazine. I don't know if they actually started out that way, but it makes sense if they did.
    From what I've heard, back then you'd sell short stories to a magazine, then eventually serialised novels, then potentially just publish novels in their standalone form. Not 100% sure how common that actually was, but it makes sense from a 'get vaguely known' perspective.


    @Rater, I think the issue is less 'it doesn't happen' and more 'it doesn't help'. Creating a fake demand for your book is a known phenomenon but I'm fairly certain that most authors can't reach a bestsellers list that way without going massively in debt.

    As for why there's at least one company doing it? The same reason vanity publishers* exist: they make money from it, damn the poor unfortunate author. Maybe it's helped a couple of people get known, apparently there have been people who've gained success from vanity published books. It doesn't mean it's made any significant impact.

    * Because self publishing via Amazon or the like, while requiring the exact same amount of self promotion, at least doesn't IIRC cost the author anything.
    Last edited by Anonymouswizard; 2022-01-14 at 05:23 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #1182
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    I think my "end goal" for transhumanism is that my "real body" would be fully sedentary somewhere(dragon sleeping in a cave/living city/living island/living planet) while I have one or more proxy bodies that I am in constant, truly instant communication with and that are at the same time autonomous and yet an extension of myself and fully subservient to me. Ideally in ways where the real me and back up and revive the proxies if something happens to them.

    And maybe a dedicated avatar body...

    ...I think I want to be the Zerg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  13. - Top - End - #1183
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I think my "end goal" for transhumanism is that my "real body" would be fully sedentary somewhere(dragon sleeping in a cave/living city/living island/living planet) while I have one or more proxy bodies that I am in constant, truly instant communication with and that are at the same time autonomous and yet an extension of myself and fully subservient to me. Ideally in ways where the real me and back up and revive the proxies if something happens to them.

    And maybe a dedicated avatar body...

    ...I think I want to be the Zerg.
    The Overmind did have it pretty good, until the entire rest of existence decided that he, specifically, needed to be killed as hard as possible.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #1184
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    I think I would just like having multiple different-looking bodies I can switch between like changing clothes. Maybe some days I'm fine with the way I am now but other days I want to look totally different. And right now changing the way your body looks always takes so much time and effort.
    Oh, and being free from aging, I am totally on board for the S.S. Immortality is Awesome
    (Hey! Maybe check out my comic?)


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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter Β– Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    As someone studying publishing right now (as in I am currently in class), I would like a source for that claim that goes directly against all I know about the economics of that market.
    It's known to be done for books where somebody wants to try to argue for a particular theory or opinion. You write your book laying out your case for, I dunno, Who is Best Pony. Then you go to your Pony Fanclub which is very deeply invested in agreeing with you about Best Pony, and you and the other like-thinking Fanclubs get together and order a hundred thousand copies of your book (which is very likely more copies of the book than it would otherwise ever have 'naturally' sold.) Now you get a couple of things happening - the publisher is happy, they get sales and are more likely to purchase and promote more books about Pony. The author potentially gets better income, so they can write Best Pony 2: The Case for Bester Pony. And, significantly, you get what is essentially a lot of free advertising, because all those sales mean the recommendation algorithms start noticing it - Amazon starts putting your book on its lists of 'Popular In This Category' and the 'You may also be interested in...' suggestions when you go to look at items. Google shows it as a high priority search result because there's obviously a lot of interest. You get to put 'New York Times Bestseller!' on the jacket blurbs, and the (ever shrinking but still present) retailers for physical books have to order some so they can stock their Bestsellers feature case.

    The whole thing is meant to raise the profile of the book's argument, and takes advantage of a common thought fallacy where people conflate 'something is commercially successful' with 'something is authoritative.' The actual books tend to get given away to people who don't want them and destroyed, discarded, or end up with rows and rows of them jamming up the shelves of thrift stores, because the whole point of the process is to create a false impression that the book's argument is much more far reaching and convincing than it really is (because why else would so many people buy it?) Nobody actually wants a hundred thousand copies of Best Pony.

    ..on a smaller scale, doing similar self-orders could be seen as a kind of advertising spend, because internet selling is a place where success breeds success - you try to kind of prime the systems to recommend your product, and in books in particular it really does not take a lot to get a notable bump in a sales rankings (webcomic artists, for example, somewhat frequently report that their books reach like top three in the Comics category when they release a new collection.)

  16. - Top - End - #1186
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter Β– Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    It's known to be done for books where somebody wants to try to argue for a particular theory or opinion.
    And has a lot of money or friends with a lot of money. That part is arguably the most important. I've known several examples (none of which I can name here even if I wanted to) and it was virtually always a case of "rich and famous ass who wants to brag about their books "bestselling" status or other accolades based on sales numbers.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The Overmind did have it pretty good, until the entire rest of existence decided that he, specifically, needed to be killed as hard as possible.
    Kerrigan probably had the advantage there--same overmind powers but she's reasonably mobile herself and can escape!

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Because it's genuinely something I enjoy and would like to do more of. I just also want people to like... read it. A few people have, and I am happy about that, it's just... discouraging, I guess.

    I wasn't expecting overnight super success but I also wasn't expecting this. I also wasn't expecting myself to BE this bitter about it. I need to just... get over it, and I usually can! It's just tricky sometimes.
    Honestly? It's like winning the lottery. Everybody knows the really big name authors like Stephen King or Margaret Atwood or Neil Gaiman. And if you go to a bookstore like Books-A-Million then there are hundreds of shelves with thousands of titles by people youve never heard of. But even that lot is built upon the hundreds of thousands who didn't even make it to the bookstore shelves.

    My dad founded a publishing company that focused on a remarkably niche segment of academia. Textbooks in postgrad-level study, in an incredibly obscure field that you've almost certainly never even heard of. I used to joke that he started his own company so he wouldn't need to go to anyone else to publish, but IIRC he had over hundred titles by dozens of authors, only nine of them his own (he was also working on three others when he died. Just a fun fact there. Man was a workhorse and absolutely brilliant), so it was reasonably successful - at least, by the standards of a hyper-specialized area of study.

    Anyway. My brothers and I were corralled into helping from time to time, and every so often I answered the phone. At least once, I spoke to someone trying to publish something through us, which was not in any way academic, and was only related in the broadest possible sense of the overall topic. It was painfully obvious that they just tossed "[subject] publisher" into a search engine, found us, and promptly did zero research about the company.

    Now, this was before the days of self-publishing, but even then people like that were trying to get their stuff out there by any means possible, leading to a fairly flooded market. After self-publishing? The market is well and truly swamped. It's like gambling in a casino - don't expect to win anything, and if you do, it's almost certainly not going to be enough to even pay for the trip. But you're almost certainly not going to get the jackpot on that slot machine that's giving out a Lexus, much less the one with a million-dollar payout.

    It's a jungle, and it's only gotten harder and harder to stand out. The best thing to do if you want to write is to be happy with what you've written and let the chips fall where they may.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Hve you heard of ResultSource Inc? It's a corporate firm whose business model is "charge the author a couple of thousand dollars to make multiple orders of the author's own book."
    Habing looked (very little) into that it seems more like "charge the author a couple hundred thousand dollars..." Which already makes more sense. It's a vanity buy-out for millionaires to end up in the last few places of the best-sellers list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Honestly? It's like winning the lottery. Everybody knows the really big name authors like Stephen King or Margaret Atwood or Neil Gaiman. And if you go to a bookstore like Books-A-Million then there are hundreds of shelves with thousands of titles by people youve never heard of. But even that lot is built upon the hundreds of thousands who didn't even make it to the bookstore shelves.
    There's an axiom among publishers over here: "Out of ten books you'll put out, one wi be succesful, four will pay for themselves, and five will lose you money. You need the one to pay for the five."

    And do keep in mind that that is in France, where, due to the 1981 One Price Law, the literary market is far healthier than what is common in the Anglosphere.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-14 at 01:19 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #1190
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Thanks for the advice and kind words, all. I think it helped.

    I guess for me, ultimately, the issue is that I'm not satisfied with myself. It's really hard to just... let the chips stay where they lay, with stuff like this. I look at others who've made it big on stuff that seems so... banal and stupid, and I look at the effort I've put in and wonder what even was the point. I start to feel like maybe my brain is out of whack- that I'm wrong, that the people who do like my writing are wrong, that I'm not actually good at this and don't know what is and isn't good, and that I should just give up.

    But I won't. I'm... going t try and be satisfied with where I am. It's okay.


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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Habing looked (very little) into that it seems more like "charge the author a couple hundred thousand dollars..." Which already makes more sense. It's a vanity buy-out for millionaires to end up in the last few places of the best-sellers list.


    There's an axiom among publishers over here: "Out of ten books you'll put out, one wi be succesful, four will pay for themselves, and five will lose you money. You need the one to pay for the five."

    And do keep in mind that that is in France, where, due to the 1981 One Price Law, the literary market is far healthier than what is common in the Anglosphere.
    Before I read your last paragraph, I was wondering what kind of market you were in that had such a high rate of books earning back their costs.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Hey everyone. I got wonderful news to tell my Pokemon Let's Go fan-fiction story made ranking #1 in Wattpad.
    It's time to get my Magikarp on!

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Thanks for the advice and kind words, all. I think it helped.

    I guess for me, ultimately, the issue is that I'm not satisfied with myself. It's really hard to just... let the chips stay where they lay, with stuff like this. I look at others who've made it big on stuff that seems so... banal and stupid, and I look at the effort I've put in and wonder what even was the point. I start to feel like maybe my brain is out of whack- that I'm wrong, that the people who do like my writing are wrong, that I'm not actually good at this and don't know what is and isn't good, and that I should just give up.

    But I won't. I'm... going t try and be satisfied with where I am. It's okay.
    *offers hugs*

    I know this feeling well.

    ...So back in middle school, one day we were visited by the author who wrote a couple of our required reading books. He told us that he never reads his own books once he's done writing, because every time he tries he ends up marking through them becuase he's not satisfied with the finished product

    I think a lack of satisfaction, in some form, is part of being a creative type.

    ...Or maybe just part of being human?
    Last edited by Rater202; 2022-01-14 at 04:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    *offers hugs*

    I know this feeling well.

    ...So back in middle school, one day we were visited by the author who wrote a couple of our required reading books. He told us that he never reads his own books once he's done writing, because every time he tries he ends up marking through them becuase he's not satisfied with the finished product

    I think a lack of satisfaction, in some form, is part of being a creative type.

    ...Or maybe just part of being human?
    Thank you, Rater. That means a lot. *hugs*

    I channeled my despair energy into making this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...04/unknown.png


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  25. - Top - End - #1195
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Thank you, Rater. That means a lot. *hugs*

    I channeled my despair energy into making this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...04/unknown.png
    Art is good.
    How often in fiction do miraculously efficient/literally perpetual sources of energy actually get used for... Anything that would be a worthwhile use of that technology?

    Whenever they come up, they're either used as handwaves for the plot to happen, some kind of impractical device, or something so ridiculously mundane that... why even bother?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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  26. - Top - End - #1196
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Art is good.
    How often in fiction do miraculously efficient/literally perpetual sources of energy actually get used for... Anything that would be a worthwhile use of that technology?

    Whenever they come up, they're either used as handwaves for the plot to happen, some kind of impractical device, or something so ridiculously mundane that... why even bother?
    The problem with almost any form of UNLIMITED POWER is that if you actually use it the entire narrative becomes irrelevant. Who cares if your MC has super strength when I can make a laser with my unlimited battery (which will of course be more powerful than her) and shoot her with it?

    If Freeza, Vegeta, Piccolo, or whoever actually managed to make themselves immortal with the Dragon Balls the rest of the story doesn't happen. Vegeta doesn't need to begrudgingly go to Earth so that he can fight Goku again. Piccolo either waits so he can get a second wish to restore his youth, or it gets restored as part of the immortality wish and Goku dies. Garlic Jr. gets the immortality wish but needs to be sent to another dimension TWICE because even the DB universe understands that he does not work as a character in this universe.

    Either that or it ends up not actually being a source of ultimate power so the heroes can still overcome it, making the build-up for it feel pointless. (oh hello RvB Zero what're you doing there)
    It's hard to forgive those who have wronged you but every moment you don't is another they have hurt you.

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  27. - Top - End - #1197
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    Piccolo either waits so he can get a second wish to restore his youth, or it gets restored as part of the immortality wish
    This is basically what happened. You'll note that prior to actually making the wish, King Piccolo is talking about getting eternal youth rather than just being made young again.

    Yeah. I don't know what's up. I don't know if the exact wording of his wish didn't translate well or if there's a localization mistake, but apparently, his actual wish was to "become eternally youthful" and he became youthful as a by-product.

    (Supplementary materials indicate that Piccolo junior is also eternally youthful due to being his father's reincarnation.)

    But regardless I'm not exactly talking about that. I'm talking like... Okay, Dr. Gero invented perpetual energy and used it to make killer robots. The idea of machines that never run out of energy is treated as preposterous by the protagonists when they find out, indicating that perpetual energy is kind of a big deal.

    Bulma later goes the schematics for two of those and tinkers around with a third.

    17 and 18 are almost entirely organic, with only three confirmed mechanical implants, and yet Bulma was able to use what she learned from studying those to both retro engineer the over-ride switch that 17 had destroyed earlier, and also repair the severely damaged android 16, which confirms that the schematics have at least some information about how the mechanical parts were constructed.

    At no point is there any indication that she tried to retro-engineer the generators. On the contrary, in Dragon Ball super she's shown trying to manufacture a hyper-efficient fuel source which... She wouldn't need it if she had perpetual energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Rocks
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  28. - Top - End - #1198
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Thank you, Rater. That means a lot. *hugs*

    I channeled my despair energy into making this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...04/unknown.png
    I see someone else has discovered the joy of lofi girl radio as well.

    Also, oh hey, new let's play video on your channel. I should have a look. The Mega Man Battle Network video was relaxing to watch as well.
    Last edited by Form; 2022-01-15 at 10:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Form View Post
    I see someone else has discovered the joy of lofi girl radio as well.

    Also, oh hey, new let's play video on your channel. I should have a look. The Mega Man Battle Network video was relaxing to watch as well.
    A friend of mine found a Lofi Radio Girl Generator and I decided to have some fun with it.

    Ooh, nice. Glad you enjoyed, and I hope you enjoy further. Today is a stream day, so we'll be doing more Sly 2!


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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    This is basically what happened.
    No it isn't. Piccolo doesn't wish for immortality, even though he very easily could've, and he has no interest in doing so now that he has his youth again (he *blows Shenron up* ffs). This isn't speculative.

    And the Androids, well... I'm not sure if this is confirmed directly anywhere, but we're told that the Androids in our timeline are much stronger than the ones in Trunks' timeline. That implies to me that whatever Gero did to give the Androids power was designed to become weaker and weaker over time, likely so that they'd be easier for Cell to capture/eat. The fact that this doesn't (appear to) happen in the main timeline further suggests that that was a function of the bomb that Bulma removed from 16 and Krillin wished out of 17 and 18.
    It's hard to forgive those who have wronged you but every moment you don't is another they have hurt you.

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