A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    No it isn't. Piccolo doesn't wish for immortality, even though he very easily could've, and he has no interest in doing so now that he has his youth again (he *blows Shenron up* ffs). This isn't speculative.
    I beleive you misunderstood.

    Note how I only quoted one sentence of your post.

    Replace "immortality" with "eternal youth" and that one sentence is literally what happened in the source material.

    I felt the need to clarify that point, since the dub kind of flubs it. That's all.

    And the Androids, well... I'm not sure if this is confirmed directly anywhere, but we're told that the Androids in our timeline are much stronger than the ones in Trunks' timeline. That implies to me that whatever Gero did to give the Androids power was designed to become weaker and weaker over time, likely so that they'd be easier for Cell to capture/eat. The fact that this doesn't (appear to) happen in the main timeline further suggests that that was a function of the bomb that Bulma removed from 16 and Krillin wished out of 17 and 18.
    This is a common misconception: Trunks says they're stronger, but in the future timeline trunks never fought the Androids at full power.

    The future androids never used more than half of their power while fighting Gohan or Trunks, excepting the time they finally killed future Gohan becuase fighting him got more annoying than fun, and Trunks was out cold that entire time.

    In the main timeline, the Androids are only just becoming free to use their godlike powers. They're basically just teen delinquents who suddenly got a lot more power to do what they want, after having been effectively enslaved. They're still testing their limits.

    This, combined with the Dragon Team being much stronger in the main timeline due to the warning and thus doing more than maintenance and basic improvement training...

    I mean, it's not like they have detectable power levels. He's guessing based on performance.

    And considering that Cell was using the androids to fuel his metabolism in order to undergo metamorphosis, the androids getting weaker over time so he can more easily absorb them makes no sense. He'd just absorb more humans or random wildlife until he was strong enough.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    And the Androids, well... I'm not sure if this is confirmed directly anywhere, but we're told that the Androids in our timeline are much stronger than the ones in Trunks' timeline. That implies to me that whatever Gero did to give the Androids power was designed to become weaker and weaker over time, likely so that they'd be easier for Cell to capture/eat. The fact that this doesn't (appear to) happen in the main timeline further suggests that that was a function of the bomb that Bulma removed from 16 and Krillin wished out of 17 and 18.
    ....That would explain why they're not as strong in Trunks timeline better than "Gero designed them differently because of rising power levels in this timeline", I do admit. the bombs probably draining their energy to store it up into one big explosion while making them more vulnerable to Cell over time would make a lot of sense.

    which of course, ignores of why not do the actual sensible actions of just putting the two infinite energy engines in cell to begin with or just making two more to put into him, but thats a conundrum for another day.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    which of course, ignores of why not do the actual sensible actions of just putting the two infinite energy engines in cell to begin with or just making two more to put into him, but thats a conundrum for another day.
    Cell was created by genetically engineering a host organism and then fusing the stolen cells of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza, and King Cold* to it. The perpetual energy engineers, meanwhile, are fully mechanical.

    There's really no way to integrate them into Cell directly. Even if you implanted them into Cell surgically, subjecting him to the same processes that turned 17 and 18 into androids, his regenerative healing factor might reject the implants and force them from his body, if it didn't just kick in during the surgery.

    Likewise, it's demonstrated when he tries to absorb android 16 that he can't absorb inorganic matter: Note that when Cell absorbs random humans, he essentially liquefies them and slurps up the goo, but when he absorbs 17 and 18 he swallows them whole and they seem to be more or less unharmed inside him—with 18 being thrown up when Gohan gave cell a hard enough gut punch and 17 being confirmed to have only been killed when cell self-destructed, not when he was absorbed(which makes him respawning on the island where Cell absorbed him when he was wished back instead of in other world near the remains of King Kai's planet a bit of a plothole.)

    So just leaving two spare generators out primed to be strong enough for Cell's needs is also a go.

    If I had to hazard a guess, did not have the means to provide Cell with a strong enough metabolism to metamorphose into his perfect form, so he was designed to absorb the two mostly organic androids with infinite energy and use them as batteries. The two that Gero had no use for since they were rebellious, hated his guts, and that he couldn't control beyond forcing them to go to sleep due to something about the perpetual energy generators interfering with how the behavior control implants worked.

    Like, I don't think 17 and 18 were designed to be absorbed all along, I think this was just recycling.

    *The anime states or implies that he also has the cells of Krillin, Gohan, and Nappa.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2022-01-15 at 12:53 PM.
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    Where my other
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    ....That would explain why they're not as strong in Trunks timeline better than "Gero designed them differently because of rising power levels in this timeline", I do admit. the bombs probably draining their energy to store it up into one big explosion while making them more vulnerable to Cell over time would make a lot of sense.

    which of course, ignores of why not do the actual sensible actions of just putting the two infinite energy engines in cell to begin with or just making two more to put into him, but thats a conundrum for another day.
    Cell was a final contingency plan, something Gero put into place in case all his other plans failed. 17 and 18 were supposed to kill Goku, but when they turned on Gero, he had to change tact. Hence building Android 19 as a fully mechanical and loyal bot, and turning himself into Android 20.

    He was also an evil guy, so he probably made 17 and 18 the sources of Cell's perfect form specifically because they betrayed and tried to kill him. No point in wasting a good opportunity for some wanton cruelty, right?
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Random Thought: I like to read people's opinions until they insist their opinions are facts. Then it ruins the fun of reading their thoughts and ideas for me.
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of the game world.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    […]
    As for writing, my current plan for getting people to read my work is to get a short story or eight in a magazine. Eventually somebody will read one out of boredom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Form View Post
    I imagine any new artist trying to make their entrance is going to find that very difficult. You're starting out with zero name recognition after all and without any already established work under your belt. And of course not everyone gets to to break through.



    I think that H.P. Lovecraft and some of his contemporaries did the same thing: publishing short stories in pulp fiction magazine. I don't know if they actually started out that way, but it makes sense if they did.
    […]
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    From what I've heard, back then you'd sell short stories to a magazine, then eventually serialised novels, then potentially just publish novels in their standalone form. Not 100% sure how common that actually was, but it makes sense from a 'get vaguely known' perspective.
    […]

    I’ve bought and read a novel that I first read chapters of that were published on pulp paper as short stories in the late 1990’s and early 21st century in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, so not just something that happened in Lovecraft’s lifetime.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Does anyone else ever fantasize about being a powerful sorcerer with like a dozen different familiars that live in your robes? Like, it's implausible that that many creatures could fit in there. Like anyone who sees you deploy them assumes that either your robes are bigger on the inside or that you're actually a dozen magical animals in a human suit.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Does anyone else ever fantasize about being a powerful sorcerer with like a dozen different familiars that live in your robes? Like, it's implausible that that many creatures could fit in there. Like anyone who sees you deploy them assumes that either your robes are bigger on the inside or that you're actually a dozen magical animals in a human suit.
    ... no, i suspect that is, if not a unique fantasy, then at least one shared by an extreme minority of people.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Does anyone else ever fantasize about being a powerful sorcerer with like a dozen different familiars that live in your robes? Like, it's implausible that that many creatures could fit in there. Like anyone who sees you deploy them assumes that either your robes are bigger on the inside or that you're actually a dozen magical animals in a human suit.
    powerful sorcerer yes.

    summon many things to be your friendly companions yes. (I am a long time pokemon fan after all)

    said companions living in my robes.......not really. thats some Aburame/Orochimaru kind of creepiness to me at least.

    personally I'm more of a fan of the direction of "alien lesbian race of elemental warriors that is okay with willingly signing contracts with me to become apart of my battle harem I can summon that they can opt out of at any time" kind of fantasy, but thats just me.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    ... no, i suspect that is, if not a unique fantasy, then at least one shared by an extreme minority of people.
    I cannot be the only one who likes the aesthetic of a snake sliding out of your sleeves or a cat leaping out of your neck hole to sneak attak someone.

    Though I admit it would require a lot of pockets. Probably magic pockets.

    Or the familiars literally being part of you becuase you're chaos incarnate or made of a shadowy ethereal substance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    personally I'm more of a fan of the direction of "alien lesbian race of elemental warriors that is okay with willingly signing contracts with me to become apart of my battle harem I can summon that they can opt out of at any time" kind of fantasy, but thats just me.
    So... Gems?

    So I went back and looked at the early episodes of Steven Universe again... And noticed that Pearl was covering her mouth when she was at the battlefield crying in Rose's Scabbard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So... Gems?
    No, thats the DBZ lesbian fusion fantasy so that I can become a permanent fusion with all the lovers involved, but with the modification is our shared mind acts like its a house we live in so that the mental individual selves are all in there, but on the outside we function as a single being.

    this fantasy is more like pokemon, except they're all girls who are sapient enough to know what they getting into, there is no pokeballs, its just a signed magical contract and teleportation to me, -possibly each other if we need to teleport to THEM- when needed traveling having adventures, fighting things and falling in love and they can decide to leave whenever.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    No, thats the DBZ lesbian fusion fantasy so that I can become a permanent fusion with all the lovers involved, but with the modification is our shared mind acts like its a house we live in so that the mental individual selves are all in there, but on the outside we function as a single being.
    So... Flourite?
    this fantasy is more like pokemon, except they're all girls who are sapient enough to know what they getting into, there is no pokeballs, its just a signed magical contract and teleportation to me, -possibly each other if we need to teleport to THEM- when needed traveling having adventures, fighting things and falling in love and they can decide to leave whenever.
    Okay, yeah, I can see the appeal.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So... Flourite?
    Only if your talking about the least ideal form of it.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    personally I'm more of a fan of the direction of "alien lesbian race of elemental warriors that is okay with willingly signing contracts with me to become apart of my battle harem I can summon that they can opt out of at any time" kind of fantasy, but thats just me.
    .... oddly specific
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    .... oddly specific
    Well I did say that it was just me. being an individual, turns out is all about being highly, oddly specific sometimes where it matters, but often times where it doesn't, which is actually where it matters the most.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    being an individual, turns out is all about being highly, oddly specific sometimes
    Like my many oddly specific but mutually explusive desires to achieve a state where I can be blasted to subatomic particles but still be alive and eventually reconstitute myself with no loss of memory.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So I went back and looked at the early episodes of Steven Universe again... And noticed that Pearl was covering her mouth when she was at the battlefield crying in Rose's Scabbard.
    That may or may not be significant. Some people just do that when theyre really upset.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    If you pay attention to Pearl's body language, it does seem like covering up her mouth is a nervous habit she has even outside of the Really ****ed Up Gag-Order. But honestly, that's a great character detail and it was pretty clever to link it to the Gag Order (cause when the active foreshadowing for it does start, the viewers might see it at first as just Pearl's regular habit).
    I wonder if she might have developed it as a result of the trauma the Gag Order caused her.............. or if she had the habit before, and Rose noticed it and decided to incorporate it into the Gag-Order to make it less noticeable? Which of these options is more screwed-up?
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightSandwic View Post
    If you pay attention to Pearl's body language, it does seem like covering up her mouth is a nervous habit she has even outside of the Really ****ed Up Gag-Order. But honestly, that's a great character detail and it was pretty clever to link it to the Gag Order (cause when the active foreshadowing for it does start, the viewers might see it at first as just Pearl's regular habit).
    I wonder if she might have developed it as a result of the trauma the Gag Order caused her.............. or if she had the habit before, and Rose noticed it and decided to incorporate it into the Gag-Order to make it less noticeable? Which of these options is more screwed-up?
    Maybe its not part of the Gag Order at all? Maybe she just does it out of nervous habit because its a genuinely difficult thing for her to shut herself up like that and she's uncomfortable, and its just a thing she does when she's uncomfortable?
    Last edited by Keltest; 2022-01-17 at 12:29 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    I like how no matter what the answer actually is, the spirit and impact of the act is clear, concise, and brutal. Feel bad for that girl.


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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    I like how no matter what the answer actually is, the spirit and impact of the act is clear, concise, and brutal. Feel bad for that girl.
    You can tell its good writing when people can have no idea what the truth is and still understand exactly whats going on.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Maybe its not part of the Gag Order at all? Maybe she just does it out of nervous habit because its a genuinely difficult thing for her to shut herself up like that and she's uncomfortable, and its just a thing she does when she's uncomfortable?
    This is a good theory, but it doesn't really line up.

    Pearl has one line "back when I worked for... homeworld" where it's like she's almost going to admit to being Pink Diamond's Pearl and catches herself and she just pauses for a second.

    But in episodes like Gemcation and I Am My Mom, she forcibly and involuntarily covers her own mouth when she's deliberately trying to tell Steven the Truth. Strongly indicating that covering her mouth is an involuntary motion.

    And, well, Pink Diamond did cover Pearl's mouth when she gave the gag order.

    And well, Rose's Scabbard was the episode where Pearl gets really pisssed off to find out that Rose didn't tell her everything... Which makes sense in the context of Pearl 1: Knowing Rose's greatest and most dire secrets and 2: Literally being designed to be Rose's perfect companion.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Happy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Birthday.
    Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2022-01-17 at 06:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Hypothetical: Your favorite movie is being remade, rebooted, reimagined, or whatever.

    Are you hoping that it's 1: The same story told in a new way or 2: a new story told in the same spirit.

    Like, my understanding is that good remakes are either one or the other. Remakes that try to do both usually end up in a situation where they'd be better if they were just an orignal concept, while remakes that don't do either tend to just be the same movie all over again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Hypothetical: Your favorite movie is being remade, rebooted, reimagined, or whatever.

    Are you hoping that it's 1: The same story told in a new way or 2: a new story told in the same spirit.

    Like, my understanding is that good remakes are either one or the other. Remakes that try to do both usually end up in a situation where they'd be better if they were just an orignal concept, while remakes that don't do either tend to just be the same movie all over again.
    Wouldn't a new story be a different movie entirely? Can you give some examples of those so I can better understand what you mean?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-01-17 at 06:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wouldn't a new story be a different movie entirely? Can you give some examples of those so I can better understand what you mean?
    A New Movie in the same spirit of the oringal can still work as a remake.

    For example, if they rebooted the Halloween Franchise... Again... But instead of focusing on Michael Myers and Laurie Strode they had a similar deranged silent killer who was an obvious Homage to Michael stalking some other girl is highly similar circumstances with the same atmosphere while telling an orignal story, that would be a 'remake' in the same spirit as the orignal.

    On the other hand, if they told the exact same story beats of the original movie, down to the characters, but filmed the whole thing from Michael's perspective, made him the Villain Protagonist, with the tone changed from one of suspense to one of... So Halloween 4 and Halloween 6 both depicted Michael as being compelled to kill and unable to resist it and I think that's more interesting than the idea of him just being inherently inhuman and evil, so a tone and atmosphere that emphasizes his compulsions, then that would be a remake that tells the same story in a new way.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    This question reminds me of the ongoing conversation I've had with various friends about the logistcs of doing a Princess Bride remake; which is to say, it must be Fred Savage telling the story to HIS grandkid, and the story should be different in places, because HE is altering the story for his grandchild (preferably daughter) like his grandpa did for him.


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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    This question reminds me of the ongoing conversation I've had with various friends about the logistcs of doing a Princess Bride remake; which is to say, it must be Fred Savage telling the story to HIS grandkid, and the story should be different in places, because HE is altering the story for his grandchild (preferably daughter) like his grandpa did for him.
    I like this idea.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    This question reminds me of the ongoing conversation I've had with various friends about the logistcs of doing a Princess Bride remake; which is to say, it must be Fred Savage telling the story to HIS grandkid, and the story should be different in places, because HE is altering the story for his grandchild (preferably daughter) like his grandpa did for him.
    Eh. I like Fred Savage, but he's no Peter Falk.
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    Default Re: Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    This question reminds me of the ongoing conversation I've had with various friends about the logistcs of doing a Princess Bride remake; which is to say, it must be Fred Savage telling the story to HIS grandkid, and the story should be different in places, because HE is altering the story for his grandchild (preferably daughter) like his grandpa did for him.
    So there's an official PG-13 cut of Deadpool 2. It has the framing device that it's Deadpool telling the story and deliberately toning it down... And he's telling it to Fred Savage who he's kidnapped and duct-taped to a bed in a recreation of the bedroom set from The Princess Bride.
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