Random MetaBanter – Random Banter no. 236 (now with Flowers!)

[Rater202]

Wait, so this was family court?

Technically it was "superhuman court" but effectively yes.

[Peelee]

Technically it was "superhuman court" but effectively yes.

Holdon, let's back away from "technically" and "effectively". First off, is this a US state or federal court, and if so, is there an actual "superhuman" court system in place?

[Rater202]

Holdon, let's back away from "technically" and "effectively". First off, is this a US state or federal court, and if so, is there an actual "superhuman" court system in place?

The details we know of the trial.

The subject matter is the custody of 1 Bently 23, an adolescent clone of one Bently "The Wizard" Wittman, known supervillain, and whether he should remain his foster father one Dragon Man, former supervillain, reformed, and a current affiliate of the Fantastic Four or be returned to his biological "father," the aforementioned Bently Wittman.

When the question of the existence of the soul of Dragon Man(who is an android) is brought up, the judge states that Superhuman court policy is to treat the rights of sentient artificial beings and self-evident and sacrosanct, indicating that the custody case is being tried in a "superhuman court."

Witnesses supporting each case can be cross-examined.

The Courthouse is in New York City.

The judge is able to hold people in contempt of court.

The judge is both a superhuman and openly biased against superhumans.

Wittman's argument consists entirely of questioning the existence of Dragon Man's sentience and soul, hiring a warlock to intimidate Dragon Man into declining to cross-examine, providing examples of children under the care of the fantastic four being put in danger out of context to make them(and therefore Dragon Man) look like irresponsible parents.(the parents can't really be held responsible is a multiversal scale cosmic entity decides she hates your son, and they did everything in their power to keep her far away from him) Some of these incidents are things that he had no means fiding out by legal means, incidentally. He also tries to claim that a former child soldier having a panic attack and using lethal force against people who are trying to kidnap him and his sister away from the only loving home he's even known and return him to state of slavery where he was forced to fight to near-death on an hourly basis for the amusement of a galaxy's worth of rich sociopaths was "murdering extraterrestrial visitors" and that getting a traumatized teenager therapy is a bad thing, and actively provokes the other side into having an extreme reaction.

Despite the fragility of his case, and the provocations, and the flamboyant unprofessional attitude he takes, the judge seems to care more about the reactions of dRagon Man and the Fantastic Four and ultimately hold them in content and the issue ends with ehr questioning whether or not she should remove not only Bently 23, but Franklin and Valeria Richards and Jo-Venn and N'Kallia Grimm from their respective parents' custody as well... Which is far outside the scope of such a case.

I would assume that it's a new york stare courthouse, but Dragon Man was retaining She-Hulk as his legal representative and she's licensed to practice law literally everywhere in the world.

As an aside, the fact that Bently 23 doesn't want to be returned to Whitman's custody never comes up.

[Peelee]

The details we know of the trial.

[wall of text]

OK, as far as what I was trying to determine, the vast majority of that is irrelevant. The relevant parts are:

• The Courthouse is in New York City.
• "the judge states that Superhuman court policy is to..."

So, normally we would just be able to say, "well, in NYC family court, X would be the case", but the entirely new division of superhuman court throws that for a loop. Criminal court ain't like juvenile court ain't like family court ain't like small claims court ain't like....

Now, your big issues are most likely valid, but we can't know for sure - for example, the judge is a superhuman court judge, which implies that prejudice for or against superhumans is not cause for recusal over conflict of interest, by sheer virtue of being a judge in the superhuman court. We could try to guess what the rules might be, but going by the whole "deals specifically with superhumans" thing, weird things may crop up. And do, apparently.

Regardless of anything, though, the most ridiculous thing that I'm surprised you didn't mention earlier as being the most patently stupid of it all (and a lot of the superhero court system sounds pretty crazy, I'll totally agree with you there) was "she's licensed to practice law literally everywhere in the world."

[Rater202]

"she's licensed to practice law literally everywhere in the world."

Look, when you're literally the best lawyer in the world, uncontested...

Well, the cover of next month's issue shows Franklin Richards at every point in his life that we know about so far, which seems to indicate that he'll be getting his powers back. Presumably, he won't be happy about a judge overreaching her authority and questioning whether or not he should stay with his parents, and...

...Well, I think we can all agree that the laws of man are irrelevant compared to the laws of physics.

[Peelee]

Look, when you're literally the best lawyer in the world, uncontested...

Then you still don't get to override other sovereign nations' laws that ban you from practicing there. Notwithstanding how silly it is to be the best lawyer in the world, versed in dozens of other narions' various laws (presumably criminal and civil both), not to mention fluency in most of those nations' languages as well. Imean, if we're complaining about stupid legal system antics by writers who just want a cool scene and don't much care how they get there (like having a judge with obvious bias that would apply to everyone who ever steroid for in her court still be an active judge in that court).

[Rater202]

Then you still don't get to override other sovereign nations' laws that ban you from practicing there. Notwithstanding how silly it is to be the best lawyer in the world, versed in dozens of other narions' various laws (presumably criminal and civil both), not to mention fluency in most of those nations' languages as well. Imean, if we're complaining about stupid legal system antics by writers who just want a cool scene and don't much care how they get there (like having a judge with obvious bias that would apply to everyone who ever steroid for in her court still be an active judge in that court).

Look, the marvel Universe has a lot of national and international laws on the books that exist solely to justify superhero tropes in-universe. Jen being able to be licensed to practice law wherever she happens to be when she's working as a lawyer is probably one of those.

Like, it's a matter of NAtional Law that "costumed adventurers" who are acting in good faith to assist law enforcement, emergency actors, or civilians during emergencies or the commission of a crime are shielded from the legal consequences of their actions and are always subject to the protections of any or all "good samaritan" laws or similar that may exist in the city, county, or state they reside in may have.

(Technically, this means that things like the Superhuman Registration Act and Kamala's Law were illegal when they were in effect, as neither law repealed the earlier law regarding the protections that exist for costumed adventurers.)

It is official United Nations Policy that the Avengers have international jurisdiction worldwide and can do whatever they want within reason.

[Peelee]

This is why I like DC Silver Age superhero stories the best - you can't really have a large scale superhero world without things just being flat-out stupid, and DCSA comics at least embraced that. No pretending that She Hulk can practice law in places that don't allow women even basic rights, just Jimmy Olsen will die if Superman doesn't judge a pie sitting contest for some reason. I can deal with stupid acknowledging being stupid and having fun with it. Hell, I enjoy the hell out of that. Stupid pretending to still be serious? It just falls apart for me.

[Rater202]

No pretending that She Hulk can practice law in places that don't allow women even basic rights

So hat comes down to a matter of practicality.

Are you going to tell the woman who could shatter the earth by stomping hard enough that she doesn't have any rights in your country?

[Mystic Muse]

So hat comes down to a matter of practicality.

Are you going to tell the woman who could shatter the earth by stomping hard enough that she doesn't have any rights in your country?

Probably not, because Peelee isn't a terrible person.

[Peelee]

So hat comes down to a matter of practicality.

Are you going to tell the woman who could shatter the earth by stomping hard enough that she doesn't have any rights in your country?

In that same practicality, she's not going to have much success in court without speaking Chinese/Russian/French/Swahili/Pashto/...

Unless, of course, by "best lawyer in the world, uncontested" means "her opening argument is 'I am correct and if I am not I will kill you all. SHE HULK SMASH!'". At which point, really, aren't all the supers just lawyers?

[LaZodiac]

As someone who works in a law office; yeah this all seems legit. "Tuesday again?" I say to all of this.

One of the partners I work under got in the news for teaching clients and anyone who would listen basic karate.

[Peelee]

As someone who works in a law office; yeah this all seems legit. "Tuesday again?" I say to all of this.

One of the partners I work under got in the news for teaching clients and anyone who would listen basic karate.

Clearly not a named partner. They can teach advanced karate.

[LaZodiac]

Clearly not a named partner. They can teach advanced karate.

He's a named partner! His name is in the organization I was just being coy to avoid saying it explicitly!

The only reason he doesn't teach advance techniques is because he's busy, legitimately.

[Peelee]

He's a named partner! His name is in the organization I was just being coy to avoid saying it explicitly!

The only reason he doesn't teach advance techniques is because he's busy, legitimately.

I take great delight in the fact that he can teach it, making me technically correct. The best kind of correct!

[LaZodiac]

I take great delight in the fact that he can teach it, making me technically correct. The best kind of correct!

Yeah another thing he does is take nature walks and find random discarded bones and interesting pieces of driftwood and hand carves Scales of Justice out of them using rocks and stuff.

To put it bluntly he's a Phoenix Wright character. Dude is like 70 and his last name means kingly.

[Peelee]

Yeah, I definitely know who you're talking about.

Also, I just learned that Canada has the single greatest martial art ever, and I, for one, am sad that your boss does karate instead of the national martial art, the noble fighting technique of Defendo.

[Rater202]

In that same practicality, she's not going to have much success in court without speaking Chinese/Russian/French/Swahili/Pashto/...

Unless, of course, by "best lawyer in the world, uncontested" means "her opening argument is 'I am correct and if I am not I will kill you all. SHE HULK SMASH!'". At which point, really, aren't all the supers just lawyers?

She has access to universal translators and also telepathic friends who can just download a language to full reflexively fluency into her brain if she needs it.

...Like, nobody who has a choice seems to learn languages the hard way unless the character is canonically a genius. They just pull a favor with professor X who beams the language in their subconscious and then they literally learn it in their sleep.

As for her skill at being a lawyer... in the State of New York, it is a matter of established legal precedent, that She-Hulk has the biggest breasts of any woman who is a member of the Superhuman community. Which means that she not only convinced a judge that this was a truthful statement, but also that she convinced a judge that this was relevant to some ruling or decision.

I do not know why she went to the effort to do that, other than the fact that she is canonically very body proud

[Peelee]

.... Which brings me back to why I like DC Silver Age.

[Mystic Muse]

Hey everyone, look, I got a new commission.

Spoiler: Spoilered for size

Show

Meant to have it be humanoid, but miscommunicated with the artist. They're supposed to look a bit Megaman-esque. May ask them to alter the legs to help that look at some point, but not in any rush.

[Fyraltari]

Look, the marvel Universe has a lot of national and international laws on the books that exist solely to justify superhero tropes in-universe. Jen being able to be licensed to practice law wherever she happens to be when she's working as a lawyer is probably one of those.

Well, that sounds like the answer to your rant. Looks like having laws that exists solely to justify superhero tropes is a double-edged sword. After all, isn't "the villains have better odds of succeding than the heroes" THE most basic superhero trope in existence?

Like, it's a matter of NAtional Law that "costumed adventurers" who are acting in good faith to assist law enforcement, emergency actors, or civilians during emergencies or the commission of a crime are shielded from the legal consequences of their actions and are always subject to the protections of any or all "good samaritan" laws or similar that may exist in the city, county, or state they reside in may have.

Wow, sounds like the Punisher can get away with a lot more murders than I thought.

It is official United Nations Policy that the Avengers have international jurisdiction worldwide and can do whatever they want within reason.

The U.N. can't do that, though. Because:
A) Not every place on Earth is part of the U.N.
B) The U.N. is closer to "diplomatic forum" than "One World Government" and does not have the authority or the ability to overrule the legal systems of sovereign states.

So if Marvel Comics gets to make up bull**** legal practices to speed up their plot when it's convenient why couldn't they do the same to set it up when it is?

So hat comes down to a matter of practicality.

Are you going to tell the woman who could shatter the earth by stomping hard enough that she doesn't have any rights in your country?

Yes. Wouldn't want the women in my* country to get any ideas. And when she reacts violently (hopefully killing a few of the disposable soldiers I have conscripted/brainwashed into service) I get to take her home nation to task for attacking mine unprovoked and using that as leverage in whatever international negotiations I am currently involved in. If I play mu cards right, I might even manage to have her punished by her own government for giving them bad press, for free!

And even assuming I'm not this machiavellian or that she somehow managed to get to me personally instead of my minions, I doubt anybody in the world would contest my ruling as void the decision of a court where one participant used (threats of) violence to get in once she's left. What is she gonna do, set up permanent residence here? Take over my government?

*Speaking as an hypothetical mysoginistic dictator here.

[Rater202]

Wow, sounds like the Punisher can get away with a lot more murders than I thought.

Not really. acting in "good faith" is the keyword here. Frank doesn't do what he does to help people, he jut has a love of violence and death and an unshakable hatred that only cold-blooded murder can sate.

Anything he says about avenging his family or an "endless war on crime" is an excuse and the best Punisher comics are the ones where he admits it.

He's also been known to shift the blame for his own actions: In an issue of Daredevil he murdered a guy dealing drugs in cold blood, then when he realized that the dealer was a teenager he cradled the body and cried, cursing "crime" for killing the kid... Hate to break it to you Castle, the abstract concept of crime didn't pull the trigger.

Frank is a serial killer and supervillain and the only reason he's popular is that in the 90s the idea of a real hard man who was tough on crime appealed to a bunch of edgelords so he got his own miniseries.

[Anonymouswizard]

The last courtroom scene I watched on TV the main character avoided execution by standing for the Presidency (and winning, naturally).

The one before that they were sentenced to execution and after the sentence was carried out recruited by the intelligence service as an agent.

I'm just saying, super hero courts have nothing on the Time Lords when it comes to stupid courtroom antics. They don't even believe in lawyers.

[Fyraltari]

The last courtroom scene I watched on TV the main character avoided execution by standing for the Presidency (and winning, naturally).

To be fair, he only won because he killed the only other candidate.

The one before that they were sentenced to execution and after the sentence was carried out recruited by the intelligence service as an agent.

That's unrelated though.

I'm just saying, super hero courts have nothing on the Time Lords when it comes to stupid courtroom antics. They don't even believe in lawyers.

And they've been prosperous for ten million years!

Coincidence?

Maybe.

[Form]

From the discussion above I've gathered I could be an excellent lawyer just by being very good at punching people. That's great! Then I too could......, ok, I'm bad punching people, so I still wouldn't be a good lawyer.

Hey everyone, look, I got a new commission.

Spoiler: Spoilered for size

Show

Meant to have it be humanoid, but miscommunicated with the artist. They're supposed to look a bit Megaman-esque. May ask them to alter the legs to help that look at some point, but not in any rush.

Nice! Though I have to admit I'm going to miss looking at the old avater, because she looked so adorable! I'm glad this one still has the horn, pony ears, nose and tail(?), so it's good in my book.

And now I'm toying with the thought of getting a commission to use as a forum avatar myself.

[Anonymouswizard]

To be fair, he only won because he killed the only other candidate.

That was self defence! Plus he was working to stop The Master at the time.

That's unrelated though.

True, although I believe his next trial is for similar offences.

And they've been prosperous for ten million years!

Coincidence?

Maybe.

To be fair, they've been in decline for most of that time. I mean it was barely a million years before they'd misplaced the dreaded Left Sock of Rassilon.

[Rater202]

I mentioned this to a friend a while ago but didn't mention it here: I'd really like a Shenmue or Yakuza-style open-world game...

That's a licensed game for King of The Hill.

It's the ideal setting for that kind of "mundane slice of life interrupted by occasional action" stuff type game. Mostly just an exaggerated take on realistic topics, but occasionally there are significantly higher stakes and hints that the setting isn't as mundane* as presented.

It'll never happen for a number of reasons, but it would be nice. You play as Hank and run around town solving increasingly more serious problems and occasionally having to make good on the threats to kick someone's ass.

*Off the top of my head, in the first season Bobby seems to be able to communicate with an ant queen and ends up being mind-controlled by her pheromones, the Us Military performed highly illegal human experiments on soldiers who volunteered to serve their country in an attempt to create super soldiers who could survive in arctic conditions, the last scene of Buckley's angel indicates that he's real and not just a hallucination in Luanne's head and one episode implies the existence of actual aliens.

[Keltest]

I mentioned this to a friend a while ago but didn't mention it here: I'd really like a Shenmue or Yakuza-style open-world game...

That's a licensed game for King of The Hill.

It's the ideal setting for that kind of "mundane slice of life interrupted by occasional action" stuff type game. Mostly just an exaggerated take on realistic topics, but occasionally there are significantly higher stakes and hints that the setting isn't as mundane* as presented.

It'll never happen for a number of reasons, but it would be nice. You play as Hank and run around town solving increasingly more serious problems and occasionally having to make good on the threats to kick someone's ass.

*Off the top of my head, in the first season Bobby seems to be able to communicate with an ant queen and ends up being mind-controlled by her pheromones, the Us Military performed highly illegal human experiments on soldiers who volunteered to serve their country in an attempt to create super soldiers who could survive in arctic conditions, the last scene of Buckley's angel indicates that he's real and not just a hallucination in Luanne's head and one episode implies the existence of actual aliens.

Yeah, ok, but what if i want the game to be different from just going outside?

[Rater202]

Yeah, ok, but what if i want the game to be different from just going outside?

That would be where the "occasionally make good on the threat to kick someone's ass" part comes from.

[Cazero]

They're supposed to look a bit Megaman-esque.

I'd say the biggest problem with that is the skirt, but I've never seen an HD Roll model. On the plus side, the hands check out perfectly.