How many arrows does a Solar have?

[Schwann145]

Title is just a catch-all question for the issue that most monster write-ups neglect any mention of equipment used unless it's items very specific to the monster.
An example would be a Solar's Slaying Longbow. Clearly this item is included as equipment. But longbows need arrows, and nothing in the write-up says it produces its own ammunition or indicates how much ammunition a Solar has.

So for monsters with this issue, how do you usually handle it? Should a monster be forced to change tactics like everyone else? Or do they just get infinite of whatever they need to keep the stats relevant?

[Unoriginal]

Title is just a catch-all question for the issue that most monster write-ups neglect any mention of equipment used unless it's items very specific to the monster.
An example would be a Solar's Slaying Longbow. Clearly this item is included as equipment. But longbows need arrows, and nothing in the write-up says it produces its own ammunition or indicates how much ammunition a Solar has.

So for monsters with this issue, how do you usually handle it? Should a monster be forced to change tactics like everyone else? Or do they just get infinite of whatever they need to keep the stats relevant?

According to the MM, you can assume the NPC has 2d10 pieces of ammunition for a ranged weapon (and 2d4 for a Thrown weapon).

Applying logic and what makes sense in the context is important, though. A Solar who just got out of their personal armory after having time to prepare is unlikely to have only two arrows, unless a plot pot is that the Solar's faction ran out of ammo.

[OvisCaedo]

In the case of a Solar, a CR20+ celestial being running out of mundane arrows feels... pretty off. An intensely magical creature like that, I'd probably just assume they're capable of conjuring ammunition from nothing. Though I have no idea if Solars of past editions with more specific gear blocks would have said something about this one way or the other...

In other cases, it might be worth questioning. Should Drow and Assassins have access to apparently unlimited doses of poison by default? How much, if any, should be found when you defeat them?

[Mastikator]

I'll second "they conjure their arrows, it's a friggin Solar!"

[Droodicus]

The correct answer is never let them live long enough to find out

[Salmon343]

I'll second "they conjure their arrows, it's a friggin Solar!"

Agreed, I would just have them manifest the arrows as solid light. Much cooler than mundane ones too! For the purposes of the players using it, I'd just let regular ammunition work.

[Zhorn]

I'll go against the trend and say a finite amount.

In games I run I rend to do 10 pieces of ammunition for creatures who's ranged attack is a secondary, 20 pieces for if they are a primary means of attack, and 4 for thrown weapons like javelins.

Granted I've been running on VTTs for the past couple of years with the lockdowns, and having creatures have inventories that the players can interact with has necessitated a level of control in that area, especially if the ammunition was considered treasure, such as silver or magic arrows.

If at a physical table, I'd rule 'enough for the combat' with a 2d10 roll as suggested above should players attempt to loot the body afterwards.

[Chronos]

The 3rd-edition Solar had unlimited arrows:

Even more fearsome than their +5 dancing greatswords are their +2 composite longbows that create any sort of slaying arrow when drawn.

On the other hand, Book of Exalted Deeds has an entry for the bow itself, as an item that PCs might acquire, and it "turns any arrow it fires into a Slaying Arrow", so a non-solar using one still has to supply their own mundane arrows.

[Keravath]

In my game, unless plot specific events have occurred prior to the encounter with the creature which might reduce its available resources then it will have a full complement of ranged or thrown weapon ammunition if it has such a weapon. For most this would be a full quiver of arrows or bolts, possibly two and a brace of thrown weapons depending on how bulky and difficult to carry they might be.

Arrows and bolts - 20 to 40
Daggers/small thrown weapons - 4-6
Javelins/large thrown weapons - 2-4

I think the 2d10 number from the monster manual likely reflects the number of usable ammunition that could be looted after the combat - just to save the DM time counting ammunition on every NPC.


In terms of actual fights, D&D encounters are typically short enough that the creature can be assumed to have as much ammunition as is needed for the combat. This only becomes an issue in extremely long encounters.

Finally, in the case of a Solar, I'd have glowing bolts of light appear at will on their special bow and fired as arrows. Considering the type and challenge of the creature it won't run out of ammunition.

[kazaryu]

So for monsters with this issue, how do you usually handle it? Should a monster be forced to change tactics like everyone else? Or do they just get infinite of whatever they need to keep the stats relevant?

i think overall it depends entirely on the creature. a drow assassin sharpshooter? sure, they probably have a finite number of arrows (although i've never had a party try to interact with npc inventory like that). a near god level angel? nah, they're not gonna worry about something as mundane as ammo. you may be able to disarm their weapons, but they're not gonna run out of ammo like that.

[Psyren]

According to the MM, you can assume the NPC has 2d10 pieces of ammunition for a ranged weapon (and 2d4 for a Thrown weapon).

Applying logic and what makes sense in the context is important, though. A Solar who just got out of their personal armory after having time to prepare is unlikely to have only two arrows, unless a plot pot is that the Solar's faction ran out of ammo.

I'd go with this.

Also, consider that the Solar's CR is probably dependent on it being able to make ranged attacks whenever it needs to. If you plan to have it run out mid-fight (or even early in the fight), that would make it less challenging.

[sithlordnergal]

Infinite until they die, at which point you can collect 2d10 arrows off their body. Its how I run all my encounters. Trying to stay out of melee range from the guard with a spear? Welp, he'll just keep tossing spears at you and never run out

[Schwann145]

I didn't give an opinion, so I guess I will now. :)

Infinite arrows seems a popular choice, but to me it feels like the Solar equivalent of "the dragon does a flyby breath attack forever" - effective!... and boring.
Solars are staggeringly smart (25 Int) and not particularly known for arrogance, and it's Slaying Longbow is far-and-away it's best weapon, so why wouldn't it stay out of range and rain down "con save vs death" every round it can?
Or...
Starting combat by releasing their greatsword and firing bow shots from the air, *at first,* and then running out of shots, retrieving said greatsword, and mixing it up in melee (where it can make much better use of 2 out of 3 of it's Legendary Actions, giving the party more varied mechanics to have to deal with) just sounds like a better fight, and doesn't require having the Solar make a dumb decision to justify it. :)

And, well, copy/paste that logic to other examples too. Just my 2c.

[stoutstien]

Infinite until they die, at which point you can collect 2d10 arrows off their body. Its how I run all my encounters. Trying to stay out of melee range from the guard with a spear? Welp, he'll just keep tossing spears at you and never run out

My players would turn that into a perpetual spear creating system to arm an army of orphans to start a coup.

[kazaryu]

I didn't give an opinion, so I guess I will now. :)

Infinite arrows seems a popular choice, but to me it feels like the Solar equivalent of "the dragon does a flyby breath attack forever" - effective!... and boring.
Solars are staggeringly smart (25 Int) and not particularly known for arrogance, and it's Slaying Longbow is far-and-away it's best weapon, so why wouldn't it stay out of range and rain down "con save vs death" every round it can?
Or...
Starting combat by releasing their greatsword and firing bow shots from the air, *at first,* and then running out of shots, retrieving said greatsword, and mixing it up in melee (where it can make much better use of 2 out of 3 of it's Legendary Actions, giving the party more varied mechanics to have to deal with) just sounds like a better fight, and doesn't require having the Solar make a dumb decision to justify it. :)

And, well, copy/paste that logic to other examples too. Just my 2c.

the slaying longbow isn't their best weapon, not by a longshot. sure, it *might* instagib someone at less than 100hp. but so could a solars multiattack. their greatsword does an average of 49 damage on a hit, and has better accuracy. combine it with an LA radiant burst thing they do, and you're easily enough damage to one-shot a PC at 100hp. ironically, the slaying feature of the longbow is actually fairly weak. its only real saving grace is that its instant death rather than just 'reduce to 0 HP'.

as far as 'why wouldn't they just stay at range'. i agree with you, for different reasons. The problem with Solars is that, while they are capable of threatening nearly any level of party (obviously depending on party makepup) to an extreme degree. the way they do so is incredibly boring, and frustrating to deal with. you stay out at range, and kite. they have supreme mobility allowing them to be nearly un touchable by the party, while also being almost un kitable themselves sure, you can throw up a wall of force...the solar can afford to just wait it out. its incredibly non-interactive.

meanwhile if you try to get them in melee...mix it up with the party, they lack the HP to really handle high level party damage, especially if you've given that party magic weapons. what solars *are* good at is feeling like they're deadly. especially with inexperienced players. they take 100 damage from just regular attacks, no resources expended, they're going to feel like the fight is more dangerous than it truly is.

[Sigreid]

As many as it needs. Seriously, I'm going to assume that a solar being a super intelligent and wise divine being with most likely centuries or millennia of experience isn't going to be caught up short.

[sithlordnergal]

My players would turn that into a perpetual spear creating system to arm an army of orphans to start a coup.

My players have never picked up on the fact that NPC ammo is infinite, so they haven't done that yet. But I'd allow it xD

[TotallyNotEvil]

I think it's incredibly out of character for the most powerful angels of the Celestial Host to ever be faced with such a trivial problem.

Let the Solar conjure as many arrows of light as it needs.

[Valmark]

The correct answer is never let them live long enough to find out

I'm for this. Personally my rule is "Homewever many it can shoot before dying/running away/the party running away/the party dying" unless the fight has been going on for a ridicolous amount of time.

[Kane0]

Eh, two quivers unless theyre expecting to need more? Then theyd probably get some conjuring set up to not run out during an extended sortie.

But honestly id just be happy they dont use endless Guiding Bolts

[Leon]

As many as it needs

[Eldariel]

Seriously, no archer ever has only had 20 arrows on their person. When battles can last for hours, that's maybe enough for 1 minutes (historically, a good longbowman could fire about 24 arrows a minute and in D&D more-so). That's just nonsense.

[JackPhoenix]

Seriously, no archer ever has only had 20 arrows on their person. When battles can last for hours, that's maybe enough for 1 minutes (historically, a good longbowman could fire about 24 arrows a minute and in D&D more-so). That's just nonsense.

Indeed. Generally, they had about 30 or so, maybe double that if they went into extended battle.

[Asmotherion]

I'll second "they conjure their arrows, it's a friggin Solar!"

I mean, it feels like a technicality to say "Solar has no more arrows".

[rel]

I didn't give an opinion, so I guess I will now. :)

Infinite arrows seems a popular choice, but to me it feels like the Solar equivalent of "the dragon does a flyby breath attack forever" - effective!... and boring.
Solars are staggeringly smart (25 Int) and not particularly known for arrogance, and it's Slaying Longbow is far-and-away it's best weapon, so why wouldn't it stay out of range and rain down "con save vs death" every round it can?
Or...
Starting combat by releasing their greatsword and firing bow shots from the air, *at first,* and then running out of shots, retrieving said greatsword, and mixing it up in melee (where it can make much better use of 2 out of 3 of it's Legendary Actions, giving the party more varied mechanics to have to deal with) just sounds like a better fight, and doesn't require having the Solar make a dumb decision to justify it. :)

And, well, copy/paste that logic to other examples too. Just my 2c.

This is a very good point. Giving the monsters varied amounts of consumable equipment, partially used up abilities and even rolled max hit points all serve to make the fights more interesting, the NPC's themselves more memorable and the world more alive.
If you aren't deliberately scripting everything and want to rely on randomised tables to generate content, amping up and embracing that randomness and weaving it into the storytelling is a great approach.