OOTS #1249 - The Discussion Thread

[Timy]

This last line really made me chuckle :D

[Garanvir]

Longtime lurker, rarely post but just had to drop by and say I loved that final panel - very funny!

O-Chul and the Giant are both awesome!

[The Shadow]

Got an actual laugh out of the last panel.

Also, I'm getting serious Miracle Max vibes from Serini right now. Hopefully we soon get to, "If I do this thing you ask, Xykon suffers?" Haley: "Humiliations galore!"

Though I also expect some sort of halfling-to-halfling pep talk from Belkar.

[Gurgeh]

Yeah, O-Chul's take at the end is absolutely killer. Had me laughing out loud for entirely too long!

I'm really glad to see the paladins reunited with the Order, I've missed this pair so much.

[Metastachydium]

Got an actual laugh out of the last panel.

Also, I'm getting serious Miracle Max vibes from Serini right now. Hopefully we soon get to, "If I do this thing you ask, Xykon suffers?" Haley: "Humiliations galore!"

Though I also expect some sort of halfling-to-halfling pep talk from Belkar.

Belkar's very good at breaking speeches. Granted, he mostly does that to Roy and Roy alone.

[drazen]

Am I the only one worried by that forgetfullness cauldron there? Would be potion effects on ingestion, touch, or injected?

... and what kind of crazy trick would have Serini for a rainy day ? :)


love fire in the hole, and please V take cover!!

Conservation of detail means it's probably going to get spilled on someone. It is a whole cauldron and it ain't just meant for two!

But will it be the Order, the paladins... or Serini herself?

[El Dorado]

Meaning me. I’m fire.

yes you are Belkar

[Justyz]

By the end of this tale the Azurites may consider V the greatest wizard of all time

[DaOldeWolf]

The question is if she will finally listen to reason or if the fight will keep moving forward.

[Larsaan]

Yup, called it - Serini's not just convinced in her logic, she's also scared [bleep]less of Xykon and for a good reason. Vindication!

I know, right? And it also proves that she doesn't have some secret offscreen plan to stop Xykon. Tasty, tasty vindication.

Now here's hoping they get through to her, although I'm still worried that her personal demons are going to push her into doing something truly damaging before this sequence is over.

[Peelee]

Conservation of detail means it's probably going to get spilled on someone.

Conservation of detail is overrated.

The question is if she will finally listen to reason or if the fight will keep moving forward.

Listen to what? Nobody has said anything of substance to her yet.

[Phhase]

Belkar's very good at breaking speeches. Granted, he mostly does that to Roy and Roy alone.

After all, "Hurting people is the only thing I'm good at."

Incidentally, my money is on this talent of Belkar's being what saves the day by getting Redcloak to blast him with a 9th level spell slot while he's near the Gate, in a mirror to Kraagor's sacrifice.

Beautiful strip tho, lovely callback by O-chul.

[Metastachydium]

Incidentally, my money is on this talent of Belkar's being what saves the day by getting Redcloak to blast him with a 9th level spell slot while he's near the Gate, in a mirror to Kraagor's sacrifice.

How would that help anyone, though?

[Peelee]

Incidentally, my money is on this talent of Belkar's being what saves the day by getting Redcloak to blast him with a 9th level spell slot while he's near the Gate, in a mirror to Kraagor's sacrifice.

That doesn't save the day at all, though.

[Giggling Ghast]

I can’t fault Serini’s logic, but she’s forgetting a couple things: first, that the Order has beaten Xykon before, and second, that Soon nearly defeated Xykon on his own.

[Peelee]

I can’t fault Serini’s logic, but she’s forgetting a couple things: first, that the Order has beaten Xykon before, and second, that Soon nearly defeated Xykon on his own.

The Order beating Xykon was a fluke, and Soon had an army of paladins (twice).

[Doug Lampert]

Considering how close the last escape was the rating seems a tad optimistic. I don't see any friendly monsters with surprise abilities around to bail them out this time...

They left Elan talking to a monster.

Conservation of detail is overrated.

Eh, you're just quoting some hack named Rich Burlow there, and what does he know about this comic?

[Metastachydium]

and Soon had an army of paladins (twice).

1. Soon did the heavy lifting there.
2. That he had help changes little: Xykon living to see another day was a fluke. He was beaten, and very thoroughly.

[Peelee]

Eh, you're just quoting some hack named Rich Burlow there, and what does he know about this comic?

Man, I searched for several minutes trying to find that and failed. Kudos to you, beat me at my own game.

[Peelee]

1. Soon did the heavy lifting there.
2. That he had help changes little: Xykon living to see another day was a fluke. He was beaten, and very thoroughly.

1.)Soon alone couldn't have done it, a lot of Team Evil's firepower was being used against the ghost army (who were also helping get Xykon down health-wise). Soon was the most powerful and did heavy lifting sure, but still needed the paladin army to get that far.
2.) I don't disagree at all. Point one is doing the heavy lifting here.

[DaOldeWolf]

Listen to what? Nobody has said anything of substance to her yet.

And what chance has she given to listen to what they have to say?

[Wraithfighter]

Listen to what? Nobody has said anything of substance to her yet.

You mean, besides O'chul pointing out that Serini's severely underestimated the Order's abilities and how her assumption that they cannot defeat Xykon is a severely flawed one?

Yes, they need to keep talking to address her trauma and outright terror as it relates to Xykon. But while this is fear-based instead of hate-based, the line still remains applicable:

You can't logic someone out of a position they did not logic themselves into.

Yes, Xykon defeated Serini casually, and was able to kill (well, close enough) Lirian and Dorukan. But it hardly takes a master of logical thinking to point out that those were solo fights, and the Order would presumably be fighting Xykon as a moderately cohesive unit. Like what happened in her fight with the Order, she tried to isolate everyone, and it gave her the advantage for a while... and then Elan used his wordsmithing skills to briefly disable the anti-magic field to allow Haley to strike a light source, which caused Sunny to look away from the party, allowing V to turn the tide of the fight, forcing Serini to break out another trump card.

A trump card that was negated too, as Bloodfeast woke Minrah, who (mostly) treated Belkar's Fear effect, who broke the charm on Elan, who cured V's poisoning, who dispelled a number of the magic effects, which forced Serini to flee the battle. The Whole being greater than the sum of its parts, demonstrated right to her face (also in the pursuit: Haley helps V evade a problematic eyebeam, Belkar gets V out of a trap, Belkar reveals the secret normal wall so that V can create an opening). At this point, she shouldn't need to logical arguments to reconsider her position, she just got punched in the face with them.

No, she needs an emotional argument now. What's holding her back isn't logic anymore, but fear of Xykon. Thor himself could come down and she'd still be going "Xykon could still easily destroy you it's not worth the risk!". She needs to be inspired, she needs to be given hope...

...and unfortunately for her right now, I have a feeling the best proof is going to be a continuation of her ass getting kicked.

[Rinazina]

Now here's hoping they get through to her, although I'm still worried that her personal demons are going to push her into doing something truly damaging before this sequence is over.

It is what I'm afraid, and if we had a tip of being inclined before, now she's down to use lethal force. And feeling that there is no way out, is it possible that she's going to summon some really nasty trick?

This opens a new question: is the telepathic bond still be active? I guess so (third block https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1247.html ), so I wonder if this last dramatic power would require the order, sunny, and the paladins, to finally settle everything for good?

[Metastachydium]

1.)Soon alone couldn't have done it, a lot of Team Evil's firepower was being used against the ghost army (who were also helping get Xykon down health-wise). Soon was the most powerful and did heavy lifting sure, but still needed the paladin army to get that far.

We don't know that. The best Team Evil had could mildly inconvenience him at most, but yes, the others did their part as well and made his job much easier for sure.
Still, the point is, Serini's wrong: Xykon's beatable and was beaten before.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Conservation of detail means it's probably going to get spilled on someone.

It's already served a narrative purpose: it explained what Serini was planning to do with her prisoners that she was unwilling to kill.

Using it again is possible, but I wouldn't say it's unused.

[Metastachydium]

It's already served a narrative purpose: it explained what Serini was planning to do with her prisoners that she was unwilling to kill.

Using it again is possible, but I wouldn't say it's unused.

It will see use, though! The entire cauldron will be fed to Red, who'll think he's the Red before he SPOILER his own SPOILER.

[bunsen_h]

Serini knowing the paladins were trying to escape and that it was lame without having to look was neat. Her having nicknames for her old adventuring buddies was neat.

They're paladins. Of course they were trying to escape. (Roll, roll, roll your dice...)

Conservation of detail means it's probably going to get spilled on someone. It is a whole cauldron and it ain't just meant for two!

But will it be the Order, the paladins... or Serini herself?

Belkar drinks (or absorbs the power of) the whole lot, and becomes totally and permanently amnesic -- ceasing to be himself. After taking a deep breath, of course.

[drazen]

They left Elan talking to a monster.



Eh, you're just quoting some hack named Rich Burlow there, and what does he know about this comic?

The context of that quote is that the "detail" not conserved was part of the world-building of one of the races in the strip.

What world-building does the amnesia cauldron accomplish?

Call it Chekov's Cauldron, if you'd like, but other than a few times Roy has babbled on about some plan that was never enacted (also world-building about how he is an intelligent tactician), a lot of far more minor details in this strip have popped back up later, one way or another.

[Peelee]

And what chance has she given to listen to what they have to say?

Yeah, and? My question still stands - listen to what?

Still, the point is, Serini's wrong: Xykon's beatable and was beaten before.

I don't think I've ever said Serini is not wrong. I agree with you.

[scienceguy8]

Considering how close the last escape was the rating seems a tad optimistic. I don't see any friendly monsters with surprise abilities around to bail them out this time...

Any rescue where you escape with your life and most of your limbs is a successful one.