OOTS #1249 - The Discussion Thread

[bunsen_h]

Does the beholder plushie squeak?

It does not appear so.

[Metastachydium]

It does not appear so.

(Damn it. Now I want their owlbear. And their griffon. (But not their Demogorgon. I'm not sure what to make of that one.))

[RickDaily12]

And before anyone asks why I'm pulling Kraagor's gate being hidden on Kraagor's statue from a tophat, with rabbits and all magic and that, I say: do you remember when we got a look at Serini's diary and we see her drawings of Order of Scribble, she put an arrow pointing to Kraagor?

To beat this dead horse further, The statue has moved. If that was where the rift was, it would have been instantly exposed in the next panel, thus ruining the entire subsequent set of trickeries from the rest of the tomb- by a mere single 6th level spell.

It would be the most obvious and pathetic attempt at a Gate defense we've ever seen to date.

There is a reason Redcloak has to research his own Arcane/Divine hybrid ritual regarding the rifts, and that's because it's the only spells we know of that either seal them, or move them elsewhere.

[Metastachydium]

There is a reason Redcloak has to research his own Arcane/Divine hybrid ritual regarding the rifts

(Except he didn't have to research it.)

[pendell]

(Except he didn't have to research it.)

He didn't have to research the divine half of the ritual, no, that would be imparted by the dark one. Are we so sure he or someone like him didn't need to research the arcane half of the ritual?

Also, when did the MITD watch porn? I'm wondering if that would prove useful for the MITD speculation thread; it might be an indication that the MITD, whatever it is, is a member of a species the reproduces sexually.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kornaki]

Also, when did the MITD watch porn? I'm wondering if that would prove useful for the MITD speculation thread; it might be an indication that the MITD, whatever it is, is a member of a species the reproduces sexually.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

He's talking about when Durkon and Hylgia slept together, and MitD watched it on a crystal ball.

[Metastachydium]

He didn't have to research the divine half of the ritual, no, that would be imparted by the dark one. Are we so sure he or someone like him didn't need to research the arcane half of the ritual?

On page no. 45 he says

Spoiler: SoD

Show

"The knowledge of how to warp the Gates is inherent to the Crimson Mantle. I learned it the first time I ever donned the cloak." [It's interesting he says Gates, though. Never noticed that before.]

He's not talking about the divine half, but rather about the Ritual.

[Sapphire Guard]

Roy beat Xykon because there was a convenient vortex nearby to throw him into. Is there much reason to believe they can do better this time? Absent narrative reasons?

What does Serini know? If she has no knowledge, then 'when the Order show up, gates explode' is damning enough. If she has full knowledge, then that's arguably even more damning, because the Order has significantly contributed to undermining Dorukan and Girard's gate defences, thanks to Elan and V, and not five minutes ago they narrowly avoided tipping off Xykon to how her shell game worked.

Xykon is not unbeatable, but the witnesses to his defeats are out of the picture. Lirian beat him, Dorukan's 'only good may pass' ward beat him, Soon beat him, and Serini's own defences are currently at least thwarting him.

The question is less 'why is Serini not listening' and more 'why should she?' The onus is on the order to prove their intentions and capabilities, given the extent of their previous failures.

[Riftwolf]

Interesting art point: the fumes from the cauldron are in most of the frames of this comic. I'm expecting something interesting to happen with it now.

[Hurkyl]

Lirian beat him, Dorukan's 'only good may pass' ward beat him, Soon beat him, and Serini's own defences are currently at least thwarting him.

Dorukan ward's is somewhat more of a stretch than the others. Xykon had already worked out how to successfully bypass it, and ultimately it was mostly his own theatrics that found him blown up before he could actually carry it out.

[AzraelX]

I don't believe that is accurate.

You are correct. Their statement that "Rich said True Resurrection doesn't exist here" is not accurate. It's actually the opposite, as the rest of your post indicated: there are characters who have referenced the spell, so it does appear to exist in this universe.

The poster you replied to isn't far off though. If their statement was "Rich said True Resurrection effectively doesn't exist here", then it would be accurate.

Based on Rich's comments, True Resurrection exists in name only. It will never be available for anyone to use.

'Not available to everyone' is not the same as 'not available to anyone'

Well, there is a significant difference between these two statements:

I prefer to simply treat it as "not available to everyone"

I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone

Saying that he treats the spell as "not available"—not just to most characters, but to everyone—is the same as saying he treats the spell as "not available to anyone". The poster you replied to had that part right. What they got wrong was leaving out the "I prefer to treat it" part, which doesn't suggest the spell isn't in this universe—it only suggests that the spell isn't going to play a part in the story Rich has planned.

[Skull the Troll]

Roy beat Xykon because there was a convenient vortex nearby to throw him into. Is there much reason to believe they can do better this time? Absent narrative reasons?

What does Serini know? If she has no knowledge, then 'when the Order show up, gates explode' is damning enough. If she has full knowledge, then that's arguably even more damning, because the Order has significantly contributed to undermining Dorukan and Girard's gate defences, thanks to Elan and V, and not five minutes ago they narrowly avoided tipping off Xykon to how her shell game worked.

Xykon is not unbeatable, but the witnesses to his defeats are out of the picture. Lirian beat him, Dorukan's 'only good may pass' ward beat him, Soon beat him, and Serini's own defences are currently at least thwarting him.

The question is less 'why is Serini not listening' and more 'why should she?' The onus is on the order to prove their intentions and capabilities, given the extent of their previous failures.

It doesnt matter what she knows or believes, we know she wrong even if she has good reasons not to think so. She's pretty dumb, and she can't imagine anyone more powerful than her old friends, despite pretty good evidence that its not true.

[Sapphire Guard]

What evidence is that?

Dorukan ward's is somewhat more of a stretch than the others. Xykon had already worked out how to successfully bypass it, and ultimately it was mostly his own theatrics that found him blown up before he could actually carry it out.

True...but with Dorukan himself, he had to lay siege for a year, and have the battle on condition he preferred rather than just laying waste to his defences.

What I'm getting at is that we need to consider what Serini might know, absent the reader's third person omniscient perspective, if we're going to make a judgement on whether she is making good choices or not.

She has to consider possibilities like 'the Order loses to Xykon, he tortures the location of the real gate out of them or gives up the shell game trick.'

[Skull the Troll]

What evidence is that?



True...but with Dorukan himself, he had to lay siege for a year, and have the battle on condition he preferred rather than just laying waste to his defences.

What I'm getting at is that we need to consider what Serini might know, absent the reader's third person omniscient perspective, if we're going to make a judgement on whether she is making good choices or not.

She has to consider possibilities like 'the Order loses to Xykon, he tortures the location of the real gate out of them or gives up the shell game trick.'

But when some folks ask why people don't like Serini, the reason includes our third person knowledge. Even so, she should know that she's wrong. There is ALWAYS someone stronger.

[Sapphire Guard]

So what's this evidence you mentioned?

[RatElemental]

I mean, Xykon was obviously toying with them and he didn't have FoM. Since Roy is apparently about as strong as a frost giant(possibly even with class levels!) with only a Belt of Giant Strength, the Bull's Strength that'd been cast on him before the fight would have put his Strength score in the mid-20s. Since grappling involves BAB, I don't think there even needed to be any "fudging" of the rolls for that.

Initiating a grapple still relies on hitting a touch attack, and doesn't Xykon have epic mage armor? That's +20 AC.

[Gurgeh]

Epic Mage Armour provides an armour bonus, so it doesn't affect touch attacks. But! Since it's made of force, it works against incorporeal creatures where normal armour doesn't, and is therefore effective against "incorporeal touch attacks" - which aren't touch attacks, go figure. 3.X really needed better proofing. >_>

[Liquor Box]

As I said, it's their own choice to destroy Girard's Gate rather than fighting Xykon that suggests it.

And if she knows about what happened at Dorukan's Gate, that works both ways. It means she also knows the Order destroyed one Gate and then... a year later or so? I forget the timeline exactly... destroyed another Gate, which brings us back to the timeline: "If they haven't gotten good enough in the year between Dorukan's Gate and Girard's Gate to come up with a Xykon strategy besides 'blow up the Gate,' how could they have gotten that good in two weeks?"

I don't think it's a huge leap. It is possible to assume other things, yes. .

Sorry Ruck, I may not be completely understanding your point here. I get that you are saying that if Serini thought the Order destroyed Girard's gate because they thought they'd be unable to keep it from Xykon, that may suggest that they'd be unable to defeat Xykon now. I just don't quite follow why you think Serini would jump to the conclusion that they'd destroyed it because they thought they couldn't defeat Xykon?

Do you think she knows only that Girard's gate blinked out, and is assuming that the Order were there? Do you think she knows the Order was there, and is assuming they destroyed the gate deliberately? Do you think she had a TV-like view of the room and saw Roy destroy the gate and assumed it was because Xykon was nearby? Do you think she knew Xykon was nearby and assumed that it was the threat of Xykon that lead to Roy destroying the gate, and not the threat of Tarquin's army?

But this gets back to a point that's been at the genesis of the Serini debate: The people opposing Xykon have a history of destroying Gates, and Serini seems to know that wherever they go, destroyed Gates follow, and maybe she knows they're the ones doing it. Given how high she considers the stakes of her Gate, she would not want to take the chance with them doing it again.

And that's in the case she doesn't actually know what happened

Well, it's not clear that Serini knows that wherever the Order goes, gates get destroyed. We had all assumed she knew that, but her recent interactions with the Order leave it open to interpret that she does not know they were at any of the previous gates.

Putting that aside, this harks back to the center of the argument that has been ongoing for quite some time. You think Serini has a special status as guardian of the last gate, and any knowledge that the Order/paladins were involved in the destruction of previous gates leads to the conclusion that they are a danger to this gat which justifies her attacking them on sight (morally and logically). I think that Serini as no real plan likely to stop Xykon and him gaining control of the gate is much more likely to result in its destruction than anything the Order would do, and therefore the Order's intervention is the best hope for the gate to be saved.

We could rehash if you want, but I think it's just something we'll continue to disagree on until we get more info from the comic.

I dunno. I see where you're coming from, but the reason I don't like that line of logic is that it presumes too much about characters acting the way we want them to act, or think they should act, or would act ourselves. But probably more relevant, she already had the gate-blowing conversation with Lien and O-Chul, and it would be redundant (probably both from her point of view and from Rich's point of view in wanting to shed further light on Serini's thinking).

I understand that characters don't always say what we might expect someone to say in that situation. That's why I don't think we can treat it as conclusive, only an indication.

I don't think saying "he's beaten them before" rehashes anything she's said previously.

Redcloak is stronger now too, and that was only one spell. I mean, he can cast many more spells.
The point is he has lvl 9 spells so is very dangerous (he almost deleted Durkon in 1 round). We don't know how powerfull Oona is, but i guess is at least the average of the Order, same for Greyview.
If Xykon alone can delete half of the team really easy...

All those are reasons why that fight with the summoning doesn't mean much.

They are powerful, so is the Order.

And the time when they beated him is not really "canon", I mean, Xykon only casted magic misile there XD

Ummm, something being canon has nothing to do with what spells Xykon decided to cast.

I have already said a ot of things Haley could tell to Serini instead of repeat "listen to us!!". And I didn't have more time than her to think it, they were sending Serini long ago, what were they going to tell her if she answered? They didn't have anything prepared? Were they going to just improvise? I don't think so. They should have a lot of things prepared to be told, specially when they destroyed gates before and they obviously need some argument well prepared to make a gate defender trust them. If that's not the case, then they totally suck. They can be that dumb to think a gate defender would trust them without any doubt.

Great, what was one of those things you've mentioned that Hayley could have said that doesn't rely on knowing what Serini's objections were?

[dancrilis]

Based on Rich's comments, True Resurrection exists in name only. It will never be available for anyone to use.

I disagree - based on what is in the comic it is available to Redcloak, I just don't think it is likely that he will ever have cause to use it.

Well, there is a significant difference between these two statements:

Again I disagree:
1. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to anyone.
2. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone.

Those are also different statements.

...suggests that the spell isn't going to play a part in the story Rich has planned.

Agreed.

They are powerful, so is the Order.

But they are playing on a different scale.

The Order and Serini likely have to assume that Xykon and Redcloak are working together and so even if they kill Xykon in a surprise round they also need to kill/incapacitate Redcloak in that surprise round or else he can word of recall away and the Order will be fighting Team Evil again shortly afterwards after Xykon reforms.
Meanwhile Xykon can likely use Maximised Meteor Swarm (based on him being able to maximise 9th level spells which the Order knows he has done once before) to likely kill most of the order in one spell - Durkon survived implosion but he might well have the highest fort save in the Order and it looked like a close run thing any other member of the order might likely have died, he can also use Harm to fix Xykon up as needed and failing Xykon going for the kill he can likely simply some of his box spells to box up members of the Order without issue.

A direct fight between Team Evil and The Order of the Stick does not seem a sure win for The Order by any means and allowing that fight risks much relating to Serini's protection of the Gate even if they get lucky and force Team Evil to flee - The Order losing half their members to a beholder and a epic level rogue does not place them in a good light either.

[Liquor Box]

The Order and Serini likely have to assume that Xykon and Redcloak are working together and so even if they kill Xykon in a surprise round they also need to kill/incapacitate Redcloak in that surprise round or else he can word of recall away and the Order will be fighting Team Evil again shortly afterwards after Xykon reforms.
Meanwhile Xykon can likely use Maximised Meteor Swarm (based on him being able to maximise 9th level spells which the Order knows he has done once before) to likely kill most of the order in one spell - Durkon survived implosion but he might well have the highest fort save in the Order and it looked like a close run thing any other member of the order might likely have died, he can also use Harm to fix Xykon up as needed and failing Xykon going for the kill he can likely simply some of his box spells to box up members of the Order without issue.

Is that right? My impression from Dorukan's dungeon time they beat Xykon was that it took ages for Xykon to reform. So if they defeat Xykon, they'd have plenty of time to kill Redcloak?

A direct fight between Team Evil and The Order of the Stick does not seem a sure win for The Order by any means and allowing that fight risks much relating to Serini's protection of the Gate even if they get lucky and force Team Evil to flee - The Order losing half their members to a beholder and a epic level rogue does not place them in a good light either.

To be clear, I am not saying that it's "a sure win for The Order". I'm just saying we can sure they'd lose (as Serini seems to be).

As for the Serini/beholder fight, it was an ambush, the Order were unlucky with their saves to an unlikely degree, and they only have two members incapacitated - but they still won the fight.

I think them weakening Serini's protection is a pretty small price to pay for the shot, because I don't think there's much chance of it stopping Xykon anyway.

[dancrilis]

Is that right? My impression from Dorukan's dungeon time they beat Xykon was that it took ages for Xykon to reform. So if they defeat Xykon, they'd have plenty of time to kill Redcloak?

Redcloak can Word of Recall back to Gobbotopia and wait 1d10 days (for Xykon to reform) and return after Xykon prepares his spells, or a month/year/decade etc later as Team Evil likes knowing about the door trick.

Note this doesn't actually work if Redcloak has betrayed Xykon (which seems likely) but The Order don't know that.

To be clear, I am not saying that it's "a sure win for The Order". I'm just saying we can sure they'd lose (as Serini seems to be).

Fighting a battle that you don't have to fight on the chance that you might win it does not make much sense - particularly when winning it is unlikely to end the war anyway and will expose some of your advantages to the enemy.

As for the Serini/beholder fight, it was an ambush, the Order were unlucky with their saves to an unlikely degree, and they only have two members incapacitated - but they still won the fight.

Did they? for all we know Sunny has petrified the lot of them - unlikely narratively but by no means unlikely for a beholder to do be able to do.

I think them weakening Serini's protection is a pretty small price to pay for the shot, because I don't think there's much chance of it stopping Xykon anyway.

Serini likely disagrees and her protections are working fine so far.

[Wraithfighter]

if Redcloak has betrayed Xykon (which seems likely) but The Order don't know that.

Agreed that the Order has no idea what the relationship between Redcloak and Xykon is, but Redcloak has definitely betrayed Xykon by swapping his Phylactery with a duplicate prior to the Phylactery getting hidden away. If Xykon is destroyed and reforms not in his fortress...

...it's safe to say that he'll be a mite put off. Just a tad.

Fighting a battle that you don't have to fight on the chance that you might win it does not make much sense - particularly when winning it is unlikely to end the war anyway and will expose some of your advantages to the enemy.

Sure... except if the choice is between a 2% chance of overall victory, and a 0% chance of overall victory... then you take the 2%. Because this is one of the key parts that needs to be dealt with:

Serini likely disagrees and her protections are working fine so far.

They're working well... but they're not actually stopping Xykon. They're slowing him down, stalling him. There's no indication that Xykon's going to give up, they're being methodical because it's the best strategy for now, once they rule out that everything is as it appears, that seems more likely: That they just give up and go home, or they start looking at other misdirection options?

They're only being stalled out right now because they don't realize they're being stalled out. They have an illusion of progress. At some point, someone's going to actually find a way to stop Xykon and Redcloak for good, because they've made it clear that they're both more than willing to take as much time as needed, given how massive the reward for success is.

Besides, Redcloak's mantle gives him a greatly extended lifespan, and Xykon literally cannot age anymore. Serini's plan is is a great Step 1, really fantastic there... but it kinda needs Step 2 to show up at some point.

[RowenMorland]

That got an audible titter from me, love O'Chul's positive attitude there.

And it's nice to see the Order getting talked up as heroes for once, rather than dumped on.

[KorvinStarmast]

That's really all the information you need for your evaluation. Conclusion: "Five stars, would be rescued by again."

It would make the MiTD blush.

Not sure how that relates. Also not sure it is such a strong statement. "Serini is always wrong, period!" might be more comparable.

The always renders such a statement useless.

Wait... is how Serini gets her comeuppance - by getting amnesia potion spilled on her? Then nobody will know where the gate is....

That would be awesome, and would be a meta version of MiTD's "What gate?" line.

Love panel 1: Lien trying to get out of her manacles.
Love last panel: O-Chul knows how to steal a scene.

Fire in the hole: good enough.
Haley in the second to last panel: gonna need more than an expression of frustration to get Serini to change course.
The discussion of the last 8 pages: *yawn* Same stuff, different day, when Serini is the topic.

[Liquor Box]

Redcloak can Word of Recall back to Gobbotopia and wait 1d10 days (for Xykon to reform) and return after Xykon prepares his spells, or a month/year/decade etc later as Team Evil likes knowing about the door trick.

Note this doesn't actually work if Redcloak has betrayed Xykon (which seems likely) but The Order don't know that.

Ah, sorry I though you meant Xykon could be reformed instantly.

If we are going by what the Order knows, do they know he has word of recall? If so, from where.

Fighting a battle that you don't have to fight on the chance that you might win it does not make much sense - particularly when winning it is unlikely to end the war anyway and will expose some of your advantages to the enemy.

Of course it makes sense. There have been plenty of defensive wars in history where the defender wasn't guaranteed to win, but it still made sense for them to defend themselves.

Particularly in circumstances like here when failing to stop them here means there's a good prospect the world will end and they wont get another chance.

Did they? for all we know Sunny has petrified the lot of them - unlikely narratively but by no means unlikely for a beholder to do be able to do.

Ah, I thought we were going by what we had seen happen. If we are guessing that things that might have happened offscreen, then I will guess that Elan has just killed Xykon and Redcloak offscreen - not likely narratively, but if we are making stuff up....

Serini likely disagrees and her protections are working fine so far.

I don't think Serini disagrees. In pages and pages of justifying herself Serini hasn't said once that she thinks her defences will hold up. In 1229 she explains what her end game is - that Xykon winning wouldn't be so bad.

The always renders such a statement useless.

'Always' makes the statement absolute with no exceptions. Just like Serini's use of the word 'unbeatable'.

Both statements are a bit silly.

[Kornaki]

If we are going by what the Order knows, do they know he has word of recall? If so, from where.

It's a cleric spell, clerics get to pick their spells from the entire list every day.

[Liquor Box]

It's a cleric spell, clerics get to pick their spells from the entire list every day.

Sure, but is it one he regularly uses. If it just happens to be a spell that he might possibly have it's pretty low risk.

[dancrilis]

They're working well... but they're not actually stopping Xykon. They're slowing him down, stalling him. There's no indication that Xykon's going to give up, they're being methodical because it's the best strategy for now, once they rule out that everything is as it appears, that seems more likely: That they just give up and go home, or they start looking at other misdirection options?

I imagine they are looking for misdirection options all along, they know secret doors exist, they know traps exist etc - but if they get to the end and find nothing how long do they search for the gate here?

It is possible that the actual gate is burried 100feet beneath the bugbear village enclosed by solid rock and that the dungeons are a decoy, it is possible that the gate is 2 miles away and the entire area is an elaborate bluff etc etc - getting to the end of the dungeons means they need to consider a lot of different options (including searching everything again or hiring new help).
What they would go with how knows.

For Serini's point of view that is a problem that might not need to be dealt with until she knows what they intend to do when they reach that point - and as Xykon is getting the odd bit of experience Redcloak is likely getting quite a lot of it which means he might hit epic level at which point he and Xykon could decide to just go and create a Gate on one of the current holes, which would likely suit Serini down to the ground.

If we are going by what the Order knows, do they know he has word of recall? If so, from where.

It is on the standard cleric spell list - Durkon would know this, and O-Chul knows that Redcloak does have it prepared on occassion he could have told them (Vaarsuvius might also have noticed - but I would be dubious about that).

Of course it makes sense. There have been plenty of defensive wars in history where the defender wasn't guaranteed to win, but it still made sense for them to defend themselves.

Her current plan is defending her gate just fine.

Ah, I thought we were going by what we had seen happen. If we are guessing that things that might have happened offscreen, then I will guess that Elan has just killed Xykon and Redcloak offscreen - not likely narratively, but if we are making stuff up....

You said 'but they still won the fight' my point is that they didn't the fight is continuing and we have no idea how the other half of it is going.

[Liquor Box]

It is on the standard cleric spell list - Durkon would know this, and O-Chul knows that Redcloak does have it prepared on occassion he could have told them (Vaarsuvius might also have noticed - but I would be dubious about that).

So it is just a spell on a list that he might possibly prepare? That's quite low risk, but if they are worried then there are counters.

I don't think it's helpful to theory craft what spell or tactic each side might possibly use though, because that doesn't reflect the way they actually fight.

Her current plan is defending her gate just fine.

You mean delaying them for a week so far? Xykon was trying at Dorukan's gate for nearly three years wasn't he? Time is on Xykon's side (and Redcloak's). Nothing we've seen suggests Serini's defences might stop Xykon, just slow him down.

As noted, Serini doesn't seem to think that her defences will hold up. That's why she was talking about Xykon winning. That's why she said existing was nice well it lasted.

You said 'but they still won the fight' my point is that they didn't the fight is continuing and we have no idea how the other half of it is going.

You are right about this. Fair to instead say that they are winning, rather than having won.

[ziproot]

Redcloak can Word of Recall back to Gobbotopia and wait 1d10 days (for Xykon to reform) and return after Xykon prepares his spells, or a month/year/decade etc later as Team Evil likes knowing about the door trick.
Serini likely disagrees and her protections are working fine so far.

Serini said Xykon was unbeatable. In other words, she believes her protections will eventually fail, or else Xykon wouldn't be unbeatable, would he?

EDIT: As for the outcome of a battle against Xykon, I have two answers.

Mechanical: O-Chul hard counters the MITD. I don't know how many people know this besides O-Chul and the MITD. Furthermore, Sunny exists, which invalidates the "I'm just an old lady with a blowgun" statement, as she's "an old lady with a blowgun who is friends with a beholder squid tentacle thingy." Sunny has an antimagic field. Xykon is also pretty strong, but so is Roy, and Roy has a weapon that can damage him. Not to mention the fact that it's a 15* to 4** battle. All in all, looks like the battle is heavily favored towards the "gate defenders" if they all work together.

Narrative: Neither side will win until the climax. It's too early for the "gate defenders" to win and they can't lose, as that would invalidate the Oracle's prophecy regarding Elan. Then, thanks to the Oracle's prophecy, the "gate defenders" will win.

Of course, Serini doesn't know about O-Chul's relationship with the MITD, or that Elan is guaranteed to get a "happy ending."

*The 15 Gate Defenders

• Roy Greenhilt
• Haley Starshine
• Durkon Thundershield
• Elan
• Vaarsuvius (unreliable thanks to deal with IFCC)
• Belkar Bitterleaf
• Minrah Snowshoe
• Lord Scruffy (Ruler of Azure City)
• Blackwing
• Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator
• O-Chul (Mr. Stiffly)
• Lien
• Serini Toormuck
• Sunny
• Various AD&D Monsters (Serini's "lair actions")

**Team Evil

• "Xykon"
• "Redcloak"
• Oona
• Greyview

Note: I excluded the MITD for reasons above. Also yes, by "Lord Scruffy" I mean the cat.