Ways to get Arcane Spell Failure down to zero in light armor?

[redking]

Assuming an Abjurant Champion that likes to wear light armor, what is the best way to get ASF down to effective zero in light armor?

[Zanos]

Any reason not to use (greater) mage armor or luminous armor?

Ways I know of:
Mithral(-10%)
Caster Armor(Dragon #358, -5%)
Thistledown Padding(Races of the Wild, -5%)
Githcraft(DMG II, -5%)
Ferycraft(DMG II, -5%)
Twilight(+1 armor property, 10%)

A Mithral Caster Thistledown chain shirt is light armor that has 0% asf and costs around 2k, iirc.

[Saintheart]

Assuming an Abjurant Champion that likes to wear light armor, what is the best way to get ASF down to effective zero in light armor?

Duskblade 1, which flat-out allows you to ignore light armor ASF ... albeit that applies only to Duskblade spells.

EDIT: In fact, stealing from old GITP threads:

Bard, light armor
Fighter, Armored Mage alternative class feature, Complete Mage, light armor
Duskblade 1, 4, 7/20, Player's Handbook 2, casting in light armor, medium armor, then heavy shields respectively
Bladesinger 6, ecl 11, Complete Warrior, cast in light armor
Hexblade, Complete Warrior, casting in light armor
Spellsword 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, 10/15/20/25/30%
Rage Mage 2, ecl 7, Complete Warrior, -10% in light or medium armor
Spellthief, Complete Adventurer, casting in light armor
Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventure, cast in light armor
Warmage 1, 8/20, Complete Arcane, casting in light then medium armor
Suel Arcanamach 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 7, Complete Arcane, 5% each time
Battlecaster, feat, Complete Arcane, allows casting in armor one category heavier (unclear whether you gain proficiency)
Geomancer 1, ecl ?, Complete Divine, see text

Dragon Devotee 3, ecl 8, Races of the Dragon, ignore ASF for 0-level and 1st-level spells
Arcane Heirophant 1, ecl 6, Races of the Wild, casting in non-metallic light or medium armor
Runesmith 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone, cast in any armor, see text
Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, Champions of Valor, cast in light armor, in medium at level 8
Pale Master 4, 8/10, ecl 9, Libris Mortis, -10% each for undead armor
Knight Phantom 1, ecl 6, Eberron: Five Nations, casting in light armor
Corrupt Avenger 1, ecl 7, Heroes of Horror, light armor
Silver Key 1, ecl 5, Eberron: Dragonmarked, light armor, abjuration only
Githyanky Battlecaster, feat, Monster Manual 4, light armor
Fatemaker 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook, light
Ebonmar Infiltrator 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
Urban Savant 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, FR: Champions of Valor, cast in light for all classes, medium at level 8

Twilight, armor enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds, -10%
Thistledown, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
Leafweave, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
Feycraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
Githcraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
Hellforged, armor template, DMG2, +5%
Blue Ice, component, Frostburn, cast [Cold] spells without ASF


Albeit most of the classes with armor ASF reduction will usually apply it only to their own spell lists, not generally...

[tyckspoon]

Abjurant Champion level 0 (for some reason it's listed in Complete Warrior as Spellsword) gives -10% ACF. That and Mithral gets you Chain Shirt; thistledown padding or any of the other special craft options gets you to a 0 ACF Breastplate. Spellsword slots into almost all Abjurant Champion builds easily and it can help when your DM starts looking at you weird when you start trying to collect an armor with six different special craft modifiers.

[Elkad]

Any reason not to use (greater) mage armor or luminous armor?

Well it gets dispelled every other fight, so nice to have a backup...

[Jervis]

Any reason not to use (greater) mage armor or luminous armor?

Ways I know of:
Mithral(-10%)
Caster Armor(Dragon #358, -5%)
Thistledown Padding(Races of the Wild, -5%)
Githcraft(DMG II, -5%)
Ferycraft(DMG II, -5%)
Twilight(+1 armor property, 10%)

A Mithral Caster Thistledown chain shirt is light armor that has 0% asf and costs around 2k, iirc.

I believe one of the Eberron books also has something along the lines of magecraft, basically caster armor that stacks with caster armor. I had a write up of now to get 0 ASF full plate without magical enhancements at one point but i can’t find it.

[Darg]

There is a Fighter ACF called Armored Savant from something called Eldritch Warriors (dragon mag maybe?) that halves any spell failure of any armor you wear.

Well it gets dispelled every other fight, so nice to have a backup...

That and Ectoplasmic Armor from SpC doesn't require you to be the epitome of good nor have your DM bang their head against the wall because he is forced to dispel it every fight at least once to get rid of the -4 attack penalty that doesn't have a save.

[Jervis]

There is a Fighter ACF called Armored Savant from something called Eldritch Warriors (dragon mag maybe?) that halves any spell failure of any armor you wear.



That and Ectoplasmic Armor from SpC doesn't require you to be the epitome of good nor have your DM bang their head against the wall because he is forced to dispel it every fight at least once to get rid of the -4 attack penalty that doesn't have a save.

Unfortunately EA only works on ghosts, so unless you have a way of treating all incoming attacks as incorporeal, it doesn’t exactly help much. The reasonable answer is to just pretend mage armor and greater is abjuration and forget that luminous armor was ever printed like a sensible person.

[Darg]

Unfortunately EA only works on ghosts, so unless you have a way of treating all incoming attacks as incorporeal, it doesn’t exactly help much. The reasonable answer is to just pretend mage armor and greater is abjuration and forget that luminous armor was ever printed like a sensible person.

Most characters are not going to be the devotees of "good" to fulfill the requirements to even cast those spells. BoED is forever out of reach for my groups because being paragons of an alignment is a lot of work, for the players and the DM. Honestly, it's only really practical if you keep the game wholly about stark good vs evil. If you venture into grey areas too often, you'll end up in arguments with the casters (sanctified feats are rarely really worth much) over losing their spells because they just can't grasp the bar of goodness that they must uphold for their characters. We eventually dropped the game because it just wasn't fun having to weigh every action all the time.

[Jervis]

Most characters are not going to be the devotees of "good" to fulfill the requirements to even cast those spells. BoED is forever out of reach for my groups because being paragons of an alignment is a lot of work, for the players and the DM. Honestly, it's only really practical if you keep the game wholly about stark good vs evil. If you venture into grey areas too often, you'll end up in arguments with the casters (sanctified feats are rarely really worth much) over losing their spells because they just can't grasp the bar of goodness that they must uphold for their characters. We eventually dropped the game because it just wasn't fun having to weigh every action all the time.

Exalted good is so vague I always just say they need to stay in the good alignment part of the spectrum. I can’t be asked to DM the objective cosmic moral order of the universe. Then again I usually ditch alignment requirements in my games anyway because they tend to be grey black morality at the best of times, so anyone deciding to use downtime to build a orphanage or something probably earned enough good boy points to satisfy it by the settings standards.

[Darg]

Exalted good is so vague I always just say they need to stay in the good alignment part of the spectrum. I can’t be asked to DM the objective cosmic moral order of the universe. Then again I usually ditch alignment requirements in my games anyway because they tend to be grey black morality at the best of times, so anyone deciding to use downtime to build a orphanage or something probably earned enough good boy points to satisfy it by the settings standards.

I wouldn't call it vague at all. Sanctified magic requires that characters "utterly" devote themselves to good. Being good requires altruism, sacrifice, and mercy. Anything else can lead to neutrality or evil. Committing an evil act immediately loses you your exalted status, while taking neutral actions can be seen as indifference to your devotion. This makes sanctified magic easy to lose.

[Zanos]

Most characters are not going to be the devotees of "good" to fulfill the requirements to even cast those spells. BoED is forever out of reach for my groups because being paragons of an alignment is a lot of work, for the players and the DM. Honestly, it's only really practical if you keep the game wholly about stark good vs evil. If you venture into grey areas too often, you'll end up in arguments with the casters (sanctified feats are rarely really worth much) over losing their spells because they just can't grasp the bar of goodness that they must uphold for their characters. We eventually dropped the game because it just wasn't fun having to weigh every action all the time.

You don't have to be Exalted to cast sanctified spells. Just not Evil. Luminous armor does target a Good creature though, so you'd have to be Good to receive it, but you don't have to be Exalted.

You can also use it if you get the [Good] subtype somehow, which will make your count as Good for spell effects.

[Darg]

For those willing to utterly devote themselves to good, great power awaits in the form of sanctified magic.

The line I quoted above is the only line in the book that explains who gets sanctified magic. "Utterly devote" is pretty strong language to apply at half-hearted goodness. Even exalted feats have requirements beyond what is under prerequisites. I guess if you ignore the quote then everyone that isn't of evil alignment can prepare and cast sanctified magic without necessarily being a force for good.

[Crake]

Abjurant Champion level 0 (for some reason it's listed in Complete Warrior as Spellsword) gives -10% ACF. That and Mithral gets you Chain Shirt; thistledown padding or any of the other special craft options gets you to a 0 ACF Breastplate. Spellsword slots into almost all Abjurant Champion builds easily and it can help when your DM starts looking at you weird when you start trying to collect an armor with six different special craft modifiers.

I dunno, I kinda disagree here. Spellsword requires all martial and simple weapon proficiencies, and all armor proficiencies, while abjurant champion only requires a single martial weapon proficiency, so there's definitely a decent separation between the two classes in terms of qualification.

[DragonIceAdept]

Twisted silk (Dragon 348) is ACF +5%, +3 armor, +7 max dex, no armor check bonus. Feycraft or githcraft will get that down to 0%.

[Zanos]

The line I quoted above is the only line in the book that explains who gets sanctified magic. "Utterly devote" is pretty strong language to apply at half-hearted goodness. Even exalted feats have requirements beyond what is under prerequisites. I guess if you ignore the quote then everyone that isn't of evil alignment can prepare and cast sanctified magic without necessarily being a force for good.

I think you're being overly selective to support your interpretation. The full quote is this:

For those willing to utterly devote themselves to good, great power awaits in the form of sanctified magic. These spells require a great sacrifice from the caster in exchange for powerful results.
Spellcasters prepare sanctified spells just as they do regular spells, and casters who do not prepare spells (including sorcerers and bards) cannot make use of them except from a scroll. Evil characters cannot cast sanctified spells, including ones cast from magic items.

I see your argument but I don't agree with it, it specifically calls out who can use sanctified magic(prepared casters) and when they can't(if they're Evil). From a RAW standpoint the statement you're using to support your interpretation is not as restrictive as you are reading it, it doesn't say "for only." And I think the RAI is pretty clear that the spells are available to any non-Evil prepared caster, otherwise it would pretty simply say that you need to be Exalted, like it does in other places in the book.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Well it gets dispelled every other fight, so nice to have a backup...

And you're not investing in anti-dispel countermeasures, instead? It seems better than spending thousands of gp on a backup plan that probably won't ever be as good as your primary buff-stack (you are an Abjurant Champion after all).

[sleepyphoenixx]

I dunno, I kinda disagree here. Spellsword requires all martial and simple weapon proficiencies, and all armor proficiencies, while abjurant champion only requires a single martial weapon proficiency, so there's definitely a decent separation between the two classes in terms of qualification.

It's also pretty much a dead level otherwise.
Even if it wasn't for the additional hassle of qualifying you're probably better off getting your ASF reduction elsewhere if at all possible and taking a level in another PrC with actual features.

[Jervis]

It's also pretty much a dead level otherwise.
Even if it wasn't for the additional hassle of qualifying you're probably better off getting your ASF reduction elsewhere if at all possible and taking a level in another PrC with actual features.

It does have features.
+1 level of spellcasting
+1 BAB
That’s honestly enough for most Gish builds to work it in if they can. It’s like how people would take 10 levels of Abjurant champion even if the last 5 didn’t have class features, the chassis is better than most.

[Max Caysey]

Assuming an Abjurant Champion that likes to wear light armor, what is the best way to get ASF down to effective zero in light armor?

Use spells!

[ShurikVch]

Dragon #359 have rules for body modifications; armor combat mod with 0 armor bonus have 0% ASF, 0 ACP, 0 lbs. encumbrance, and costs 0 gp (sans special materials, masterwork, or magic)

(Also, you can animate light armor and then - possess it)

[Gruftzwerg]

Dragon #359 have rules for body modifications; armor combat mod with 0 armor bonus have 0% ASF, 0 ACP, 0 lbs. encumbrance, and costs 0 gp (sans special materials, masterwork, or magic)

(Also, you can animate light armor and then - possess it)

Can you explain what you mean with possessing the animated armor? I'm curious and don't really get what you mean here.

[ShurikVch]

Can you explain what you mean with possessing the animated armor? I'm curious and don't really get what you mean here.

Well, Magic Jar is the most common way; [Ghost, Dominator] feats from Ghostwalk or Fiend of Possession PrC are less easy ways

[Gruftzwerg]

Well, Magic Jar is the most common way; [Ghost, Dominator] feats from Ghostwalk or Fiend of Possession PrC are less easy ways

Ah.. thx for the enlightenment. Have to keep that in mind ;)

[Jervis]

Ah.. thx for the enlightenment. Have to keep that in mind ;)

For what it’s worth Ghost Template/ Savage Progression with ghost walk feats is absurdly good, if you can optimize it. Once saw a guy, at level 15 mind you, play a 23 HD purple dragon because he got it via Skymage’s flying mount class feature and then possessed it as a ghost

[El Dorado]

If Pathfinder is available, there's the Arcane Armor Training feat. 10% reduction.