Ascension challenges for epic party

[Puke]

Hi everyone !

My players have decided to submit themselves to the trials of ascension.
Quick recap : homebrew setting, the gods have been slain. The party helped freeing the overgod from its prison. The overgod decided to create new rules for the gods (they need worshipers and cannot go to the prime material plane freely). The overgod has also decided to run a big trial for any powerful character to prove himself worthy to be a god.

The party did not want to participate at first, but one NPC helped them in a critical moment and they agreed to help him ascend.

They decided if they indeed help this individual, they might as well participate in the trial themselves.

I have a vague idea of trials, I was thinking about some puzzles, then a big arena where they would face random enemies from the pool of people who are trying to ascend. But it feels kinda meh and anticlimactic to me.

What would you have them do in order to prove they are worthy to ascend ?
The party is lvl 26 (we decided to cap at lvl 30) and has a lich (epic wizard), a monk, and a cleric.

[Endarire]

What were the old deities doing that still needs doing right now? Assumedly, just like in employment, when someone in authority leaves, the need for that position to some degree still remains.

In short, "You can be a god if you can replace him in function. Answer the prayers he has on backlog. Define an identity for your deific status. And so on."

[icefractal]

It'd depend on what the overdeity values in gods, which itself depends on two things:
1) What do gods do? Do they administrate their domain? Exemplify it? Only intercede at critical moments and are on vacation the rest of the time?
2) How much does the power/skills of the god depend on the power/skills of their former mortal self? Would a God of the Harvest who used to be a Druid 25 be stronger/better than one who used to be a Commoner 2? Or is mortal power a drop in the ocean compared to their divine mantle?

For example, for the God of Strength, who is the best candidate?
1) A mid-level Expert who isn't personally that strong, but has encyclopedic knowledge of everything relating to "strength" (folklore, history of strong people, body building techniques, etc), plus excellent administration skills.
2) An epic level knight who happens to be the strongest mortal in existence. But he doesn't particularly care about being strong, it's just a means to an end (being able to single-handedly protect a city), and he'd be happy to trade it for another type of power if that would serve his goals better.
3) A bodybuilder whose entire goal is to be as strong as possible, who loves working out and contests of strength - but who is currently low level and nowhere near #2 in actual Strength score.

[Akal Saris]

I would make the challenges individual to each player, and open-ended as well as epic. For example, if I had a player who wanted the portfolio of 'god of battle', I would say:

0) Tournament to prove your strength (the 'qualifier round')
1) You must bring to an end an unjust invasion, without aid from anyone more powerful than you
2) You must start a war against a cruel tyrant, by convincing the people of the country to rise up
3) You must assist a master swordsmith to complete an artifact sword that would be the smith's dying achievement, which would mean apprenticing under the smith, and deciding upon the epic components to imbue in the sword

This means asking the players in advance what their planned portfolios are so you can work it into the game. Then give them the freedom to decide how they accomplish their goals, and in what order.

[Shaurmiath]

There are so many fun options for something like this. Since it's being proctored by an overgod of sorts, you have basically no limit on the scope and scale of these trials.

Your mileage may vary, but for me, the most important thing about this is that it should feel like the players are earning something. Even for an all-powerful Over-Deity, something like godhood isn't given lightly, so I imagine it would be very important for the candidates to be a good fit.

Again, a lot of this is subjective, but if this were my uber-god, it would already know who was going to pass and who was going to fail, and the ascension trial should function more as on-the-job training than any sort of evaluation of skills. If these people are the right choice to become gods, they will have the requisite power within them. The Ascension trials would largely serve to weed out the unworthy, maybe even to show them why they were unworthy, and only those who are worthy (i.e. whoever the story requires to become gods) will take the final trials.

The initial trials could be simple tests of wisdom and power, maybe some kind of labyrinth with a time factor, puzzles, and powerful monsters, etc, just something to provide a fun challenge for the players, where the unworthy can be weeded out.

These are trials to become gods, however, so the final trials should be more personalized, I think. The players should have an idea of what kind of Divine Mantle they will be taking up. Will the Lich be a god of magic, or death, or some combination? If someone is seeking to become a god of death, they need to know how to do that. They might need to find some sort of being who is perverting the natural order by avoiding death, or find your world's equivalent of the Grim Reaper's Scythe, some sort of artifact that can reap the souls of the dead, or they might be sent to reclaim or restore the Realm of the Dead by performing some sort of ritual. It might even be all of those things at once.

Your players' characters seem to be hesitant about becoming gods, and obviously, your overgod will want enthusiastic candidates, so maybe these trials might also serve an RP function, giving the characters motivation to do their job. This might be showing them the perks, showing them what sort of chaos would ensue if someone doesn't step in, or perhaps what kinds of chaos could be caused if they did.

I look forward to hearing more about these trials as you work them out.

[Puke]

Hello ! Thank you for the answers.

The previous gods were inpiring and guiding mortals. They did not intervene in the prime material plane, but each of them had a creature at their service (a huge Hydra for one, the Kraken for another... and so on and so on).
The previous gods were destroyed by mortals because they were tired of the gods telling them to fight one another. The overgod helped the mortals in secret because he did not want the mortals to have it too easy but agreed that the gods had failed their task.
The previous gods were born gods... but this time, the overgod wants people who actually lived among mortals.

The first trial was about pure wits. They were stuck in a room with the following items :
- A locked cage containing a mouse
- A piece of cheese
- A piece of sugar
- A key

The room had 3 doors, each door had a keyhole.

They found rather quickly they should use the key on the cage because they had no mean to know what door could lead them to the exit. And since no one inside the room wanted to take over the "fate" domain, they would not just randomly open a door. The mouse disappeared inside a hole in a wall. They followed the mouse, using a spell to become the size of the mouse, took the piece of sugar, and entered the hole. Then, they gave the sugar to a terrifying giant insect (from their scale) to distract it and escape the tunnel.

The overgod wants to be sure of several things :
- The ascendant will not make the same mistakes
- They are capable of thinking of others before themselves
- They are powerful enough, as their current level of power, to face deadly challenges

The next trial will be focused on cooperation and compromises.


Since the overgod allowed them to participate as a group (and that is a HUGE advantage) they will be faced with a challenge focused on cooperation. The overgod wants to demonstrate when individuality surpasses group-play and reveal the real faces of every participant. He also wants to show them playing as a group can be a good thing, but can also be a weakness, and he wants them to prove they can get the most of their ressources.

I was thinking about a puzzle where they would have to communicate pieces of information, while being in separate rooms. Roll20 allows me to place every player in a different room so a player can only see what is in front of him. They would be able to communicate via magical means or via a mechanism on a wall, but only 2 players at a time.
I was thinking about something as simple as a crossword or a sudoku, but with the pressure of time constraint and the need to communicate because each player would only see a part of the board.

The next trial will most certainly be an arena.

Another trial will be a quest related to the divine domains they want. They will be sent on the prime material plane and will have to solve a crisis. Which means any entity aware of their doings might come by and f**k everything up as much as possible.

These are trials to become gods, however, so the final trials should be more personalized, I think. The players should have an idea of what kind of Divine Mantle they will be taking up. Will the Lich be a god of magic, or death, or some combination? If someone is seeking to become a god of death, they need to know how to do that. They might need to find some sort of being who is perverting the natural order by avoiding death, or find your world's equivalent of the Grim Reaper's Scythe, some sort of artifact that can reap the souls of the dead, or they might be sent to reclaim or restore the Realm of the Dead by performing some sort of ritual. It might even be all of those things at once.

This might be a really good thing for the last quest I mentioned.

[Puke]

There are so many fun options for something like this. Since it's being proctored by an overgod of sorts, you have basically no limit on the scope and scale of these trials.

Your mileage may vary, but for me, the most important thing about this is that it should feel like the players are earning something. Even for an all-powerful Over-Deity, something like godhood isn't given lightly, so I imagine it would be very important for the candidates to be a good fit.

Again, a lot of this is subjective, but if this were my uber-god, it would already know who was going to pass and who was going to fail, and the ascension trial should function more as on-the-job training than any sort of evaluation of skills. If these people are the right choice to become gods, they will have the requisite power within them. The Ascension trials would largely serve to weed out the unworthy, maybe even to show them why they were unworthy, and only those who are worthy (i.e. whoever the story requires to become gods) will take the final trials.

The initial trials could be simple tests of wisdom and power, maybe some kind of labyrinth with a time factor, puzzles, and powerful monsters, etc, just something to provide a fun challenge for the players, where the unworthy can be weeded out.

These are trials to become gods, however, so the final trials should be more personalized, I think. The players should have an idea of what kind of Divine Mantle they will be taking up. Will the Lich be a god of magic, or death, or some combination? If someone is seeking to become a god of death, they need to know how to do that. They might need to find some sort of being who is perverting the natural order by avoiding death, or find your world's equivalent of the Grim Reaper's Scythe, some sort of artifact that can reap the souls of the dead, or they might be sent to reclaim or restore the Realm of the Dead by performing some sort of ritual. It might even be all of those things at once.

Your players' characters seem to be hesitant about becoming gods, and obviously, your overgod will want enthusiastic candidates, so maybe these trials might also serve an RP function, giving the characters motivation to do their job. This might be showing them the perks, showing them what sort of chaos would ensue if someone doesn't step in, or perhaps what kinds of chaos could be caused if they did.

I look forward to hearing more about these trials as you work them out.

So, next trial happened.

We use Discord and Roll20.

I had 4 players this time (I asked someone to come play the NPC who was with them so I would not influence their ability to solve the puzzle).

Each player was in a separate room. Each player could ear only the player who was stuck in the room before him. So the players could speak to someone, but not hear his answer. They had to loop any message through the whole group. They laughed a lot when they understood what was going on (because I asked each player to mute specific players)... and they laughed A LOT LESS afterward.
It took them 1 hour to describe each room precisely. Each room had one piece of the puzzle.
The first room had numbers, and each number was positioned precisely on the grid.
The second room had a texte that did not make a lot of sense.
The third room had math symbols "x" and "+" precisely positioned on the grid.
The fourth room was the final room with a riddle, but the riddle was missing ONE very important word.

The riddle was :
I'm something every (...) has or had.
It is known.
I'm something every (...) wants to extend, and don't want to loose.
It is common knowledge.

What am I ?
Say the answer, and get out.
Say wrong and die.

It took 45 minutes to the player inside the room with the numbers to explore the whole room because he was afraid something bad would happen, even tho I said only one room could hurt someone, and this someone knew it (the fourth room).

Overall, the puzzle was very simple. They had to describe each room. The numbers room and the math room were very obviously linked to one another. But they could not figure out a way to describe were the numbers or the maths symbols were, even tho I told them each room has the exact same size and the exact same grid.
I told them beforehand the puzzle was simple, but they had to focus and take a pen and a piece of paper. I told them it was very important to be able to take notes and to be focused on every detail.
Apart from what I described, every room was empty, with nothing whatsoever that could distract the players from their piece of the puzzle.
I expected them to say "I have numbers, if you have math symbols, our rooms are linked. Let's make a chessboard grid with A, B, C etc... and 1, 2, 3 etc... from the top left corner".
But... well... i had to push the player who was taking care of the NPC (a very very intelligent NPC) to tell them they should probably figure out a way to make a set of coordinates.

The player in the second room had a very painful time, because the others would deteriorate his messages, speak too quickly, and not answer his questions completely.

They did not enjoy this very much, but that's completely on them, and not on me.
I told them the puzzle was here because as gods, they would have to influence how mortals behave... but... as they know, gods don't always speak directly to mortals, and even tho, god's messages will be altered from the first person receiving it to the last.

ONE PLAYER did not do his job (explore his room and describe it to the others) and they were stuck for a full 45 minutes because of it. And this player did not share to the others he was afraid to trigger a trap. This player asked me "do I have any reason to think about something related to a video game ?" (he was thinking about a minesweeper). I told him "No. This is a medieval fantasy setting, you cannot possibly think of any reference from our modern times."
And.... he still was afraid of it being a minesweeper...
So... he punished himself for thinking as a player and not as a character. And he punished his whole group.

Overall, i'm pretty pleased with myself. 3 players out of 4 enjoyed it, even if they suffered a lot. And I think it was a very clever design.
I know all the players are supposed to have fun, but this time I did my part, and they need to learn how to communicate and cooperate.

I figured as soon as I forbid them to send PM to each other or to talk outside of RP, they had a really really hard time doing the puzzle.


Hopefully, they learned their lesson.

And anyway, these are trials to become gods. If the player who "wants the domain of knowledge but his not really sure about it" cannot figure out a way to solve this... well... he will not go very far.

I told them beforehand there will be no pity on my part, death would be definitive during the trials, and the puzzles are not designed so they would always win. I told them every action they take matters, and as much as a game of D&D is "The DM designs challenges the players are supposed to win, even if it's hard", this time it's "The DM designs challenges the players CAN win as much as they CAN fail, and are more than likely to fail."

Once again, it's supposed to test their ability to become gods... not to be the court wizard.

[Shaurmiath]

Glad to see the majority of your party seems to have enjoyed playing. Hopefully things can continue to be exciting and interesting for everyone. Let me know if you need any more ideas or suggestions. Thanks for sharing how it went.

[icefractal]

Having a little trouble picturing this (like your players did, it seems) -
The answer to the riddle is a number? The result of combining the numbers and operators correctly? And was the text in the second room the missing word for the riddle, or something else?

[Puke]

(the numbers are wrong in the picture cuz I recreated the scene for the exemple)
They had to combine the numbers and the operators.
It would give them 4 numbers, allowing them to pick 4 words in the text.
The 4 words were : "Hard scales and deadly breath"
So the missing word from the riddle was Dragon.
The text in the middle room had no meaning whatsoever. It seemed to have some meaning but was very weirdly written.
So Dragon would complete the riddle and allow them to understand the answer for this trial was "Treasure".

One player asked multiple times "How are the numbers arranged ? Is there an order or something ?"
And they just did not pass the info...
While the player in the operator room said multiple times "I have operators, I don't know what to do with them, but to me, X and + has something to do with either maths or just a shape..."

[Puke]

There are so many fun options for something like this. Since it's being proctored by an overgod of sorts, you have basically no limit on the scope and scale of these trials.

Your mileage may vary, but for me, the most important thing about this is that it should feel like the players are earning something. Even for an all-powerful Over-Deity, something like godhood isn't given lightly, so I imagine it would be very important for the candidates to be a good fit.

[...]

I look forward to hearing more about these trials as you work them out.

The next trial will be as you suggested : a task related to the domains they wish to oversee.
The powers in place will give them tasks :
- Do something so the dead can rest in peace
- Conceive a spell to do a said task and teach it to someone

There is also 3 powerful artifacts linked to the domains of death, knowledge and magic, but one of them is guarder by an hecatonchire, and everyone is afraid to go there and take it (rightfully so).