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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI


    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! Time for another game element that isn't a class.

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 game element (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level—where applicable—in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI or that otherwise use it as heavily as possible.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 9 on Monday, Dec 13, 2021 (1:59 AM GMT on Tuesday, Dec 14). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one—I'll do my best, anyway. Judging is then encouraged to go as quickly as possible; if multiple judges volunteer, we'll set about a two-week window, but if we only get one judge, we'll try to wrap up as soon as possible after that judge presents scores. (I will admit that the deadline time may not be an exact science, but don't hide from me and we'll probably be cool.)
    • Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.

      Spoiler: Let's talk about sources
      Show

      • ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
      • ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
      • ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
      • ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
      • NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
      • ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
      • ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
      • NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
      • ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.) However, as a specific exception for round 26, see below.
      • NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
      • ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

      If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.
    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Highlighted because of past issues: It is not enough for your build to end with a level adjustment of +0. You must be +0 from start to finish. No using ANY build elements with a level adjustment above +0, even if they then get mitigated or reduced somehow. However, note that a special exception is in place for round 26...
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone. You are allowed, but not required, to use this extremely spiffy tool that mattie_p cooked up (thanks, mattie_p!).
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [TABLE="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [TR]
      [TH][B]Level[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Class[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Fort Save[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Ref Save[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Will Save[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Skills[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Feats[/B][/TH]
      [TH][B]Class Features[/B][/TH]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]1st[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]2nd[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]3rd[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]4th[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]5th[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
      [TD]6th[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Level[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]+x[/TD]
      [TD]Skills[/TD]
      [TD]Feats[/TD]
      [TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]
    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat). When taking Open Minded as an epic feat, any skill that has ever been a class skill for you (including through your class, your race, your feats, or similar game elements, though please don't muck around with retroactively making something stop being a class skill for some stupid reason) is a class skill when determining how the 5 granted skill points may be spent. All usual rules about HD-related skill caps apply. When taking Open Minded as a non-epic feat, treat it as normal; the class skills of the class you took at the level you gained Open Minded (plus race, feats, etc.) are your class skills for those skill points, similar to if Open Minded's skill points came straight from your class.
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5 (except in high-Originality rounds, wherein the maximum in Originality is 10). Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
      Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
    • Dispute guidelines (NEW, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION): Disputing is long, annoying, and emotional. It's also sometimes necessary, but it's often not actually something that makes everyone have more fun. Let's go into a little more detail here.
      Spoiler
      Show
      • Do NOT dispute to make an argument that goes fundamentally beyond what's in your write-up. It is the responsibility of the chef to make sure that the write-up is complete and contains their best arguments for what the build does and why it's awesome. If you didn't explain your tactics well or didn't spell out something that a judge misses, just do better next time. Don't drag it out after the fact.
      • Do NOT dispute just to be clever or witty or cheeky. Please. We're all adults here and so I assume you know what that means. Don't treat the build as a setup and your oh-so-clever dispute as the punchline. It's not as funny as it is in your head. Trust me. I've been down that road.
      • Do NOT dispute just to say "oh yeah, my bad, I missed that" or some equivalent. If you're not directly challenging the judge, save the commentary until after the reveal. I 100% get that the urge to respond to commentary is very strong, but type it out and sit on it for a while if you've gotta.
      • Do NOT dispute just to try to wheedle more points out of the judge. Note that this is different from saying that the judge is being truly unfair or is being truly wrong by black-and-white RAW. A dispute is NOT the place to try to scrape together a few last quarter-points. If you didn't put it in your write-up, that's on you. This also means that a dispute is really not the place to have long back-and-forth tit-for-tat arguments. That's a surefire way to get people grumpy. It's a contest on a D&D board, guys, not the results of a federal election.
      • Do NOT dispute to tear down another build. That's just plain not cool. If you entered the contest, it's not on you to judge the other builds.
      • DO dispute if the judge is being blatantly biased by giving you a substantially different ruling on a build element compared to another chef who used the same build element in nearly the same way. (Note that position in a build may affect if you're using that element in "nearly the same way" or not.) Please reserve this for the truly blatant examples. I mean it. Remember, it's the contestant's responsibility to make their best argument in the original write-up.
      • DO dispute if the judge is actively going against the contest rules. Note that there are relatively few ways in which a judge can go against contest rules (we intentionally give very wide discretion to our judges), but examples include truly breaking One Mistake One Penalty, penalizing just because of number of sources of (legal) material, and so on.
      • DO dispute if the judge is clearly ignoring unambiguous RAW. Note that this is for unambiguous RAW; if the RAW is shady and you're making an argument that isn't completely clear and that it wouldn't be strange for a GM to frown on, the judge has every right to frown on it as well. (You generally know when you're indulging in shady RAW. Be mature about this.) But if the judge is saying you didn't hit a prereq that you clearly did hit (and included in your write-up!), saying you can't do something that the plain text of the ability says you can do, or anything like that, by all means, call 'em out.
      • Do NOT dispute if the judge doesn't agree with your interpretation of ambiguous RAW. Yes, this is a retread of the previous bullet point; this is that important. If you're relying on ambiguous RAW, it's on you to lay out clearly why it should work the way you want it to work. Again, be mature and act in good faith: you really know when you're pushing things like this. If they don't like it, they don't like it. Move on.


      Disputing is a privilege, not a right. In the Chair's sole discretion, disputes that do not meet these guidelines and/or that do not seem to be offered in good faith may be suppressed. The Chair reserves the right to choose to post all, some, or none of a dispute if appropriate.

    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.



    This round's secret ingredient:
    SKILL TRICKS, from Complete Scoundrel!



    Allez Optimizer!




    The Builds:
    Coming soon!

    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 36. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required. (That said, did you see the new dispute guidelines? Those ARE rules, so please go read them. And I'm even going to be better about enforcing them this time.)

    Recommendations:
    • Double-check ALL of your prereqs. Every. Single. One. Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.
    • Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.
    • Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also insanely dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!
    • Be memorable. Remember that we've all seen these ingredients used at least once before. What makes you different?


    So maybe your way of showing off the SI will be to gather more skill tricks than anyone else. Maybe your way will be setting yourself up to use a wide variety. Maybe your way will be showing off one specific one that takes your build to new heights. Maybe you're a combination of them! But gather 'em, show 'em off, and get tricky up in here. Good luck, team!
    Last edited by Zaq; 2021-11-29 at 12:12 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 36. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Interesting ingredient. I might cook for this if I come up with something interesting. Looking forward to seeing what eveyone comes up with!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Do you need to meet the prerequisites of a skill trick when you take a feat that allows you to immediately learn two new skill tricks?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Yes, nothing says you don't.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 36. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    My first thought was "oh cool, skill tricks!". Then I read through all the skill tricks and went "oof, guess I'll plan on judging this round". Having let it sit in the back of my brain for a few hours...I have an idea. Not sure if it'll pan out, but I'm going to try building something.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Well, this will be an interesting thing to try out, I'll give it a go, though I don't have any ideas to start with, so I don't know if I'm going to actually be able to complete an entry. Will be interesting to see what people come up with, though.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Are there any other source of skill tricks besides Complete Scoundrel?
    I'm taking part in the Character Creation Challenge (#charactercreationchallenge): 1 character per day for January 2022. Come see who I've made at:
    https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpress.c...tionchallenge/

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    Are there any other source of skill tricks besides Complete Scoundrel?
    None that are within the allowed sources of the comp. I think that there's a dragmag with a few extras that are actually good.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zarvistic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Yes, nothing says you don't.
    Just to be clear, this simply means learning the trick is ok, but still not be able to use it unless prereqs are met?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Got a question about the adaptation to magical trickster to make it psionic. That adaptation is not canon for the sake of this contest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarvistic View Post
    Just to be clear, this simply means learning the trick is ok, but still not be able to use it unless prereqs are met?
    Let's go to the text.

    From Complete Scoundrel, pp. 82-3:

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Scoundrel pp. 82-3
    You can learn any skill trick, as long as you meet the prerequisite and can afford to expend 2 skill points. If you later no longer meet the prerequisite for a skill trick, you can’t use it again until you once more qualify.

    You can’t learn more than one skill trick at any given level, and your total skill tricks cannot exceed one-half your character level (rounded up). Certain feats and prestige class features allow a character to exceed these limits.
    So as I see it, the feats will let you learn more tricks than you're allowed to have, but nothing in this text says that you can ignore the "as long as you meet the prerequisite" clause. I recommend against trying to do that.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 36. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I am disliking this ingredient.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    I am disliking this ingredient.
    Yeah, all of my ideas are failing to be possible either because of 6 being not enough levels or the bloody [redacted]. I still want to get something in, but it's not going well.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    My ideas are all turning out to have the SI as a side part at best, honestly. I'm having a hard time making the SI feel important for the build, as opposed to just kinda useful. I still have a couple of ideas to try, but I don't know if any of them will work.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Oh, great; I love skill tricks. In Iron chef classic, I like to use them when the secret ingredient has a crummy list of class skills. Count me in as a chef.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2021

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Hmmm... Would OA's Samurai fall under "Has not been updated to 3.5e clause" ? Or does CW's Samurai count as an update despite being very different?
    Last edited by Birchy; 2021-12-12 at 02:09 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchy View Post
    Hmmm... Would OA's Samurai fall under "Has not been updated to 3.5e clause" ? Or does CW's Samurai count as an update despite being very different?
    OA samurai sometimes gets docked by judges, and if you use both, you def get judge docked.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Birchy View Post
    Hmmm... Would OA's Samurai fall under "Has not been updated to 3.5e clause" ? Or does CW's Samurai count as an update despite being very different?
    He updated in Dr#318.

    ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    Real talk, team: we don't have enough entries right now! Who's still cooking (or interested in cooking), and how long an extension would it take to get some dishes plated up?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 36. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I just finished judging regular IC (except for possible disputes), have not even started if I were to enter this. Could maybe have something by Friday ish? Although if my judging was any indication.....

    But if not by Friday then probably not at all, as I have visitors coming in town that day.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Apr 2020
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    Jerusalem
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I've had a few ideas but none really took flight. I'll reread some stuff tomorrow and see if inspiration strikes, but unless that happens I'm out of this round.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I could probably get something in by Friday as well if not earlier.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I'll aim to have something in by Friday, and may the judge(s) have mercy on my soul.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2021

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I've finished my build. I will also consider another build.

    Good Luck to Everyone!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I'll see if I can squeeze something out by Friday, but I don't know if I'll be able to, since it's crunch time (again) at work.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Jul 2019
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    One of the tricky things about the SI is that some of the cool build-around Skill Tricks require, like, 12 ranks in skills, which is kinda disappointing...

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I have an idea.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    And... It sent.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I had a couple ideas that went nowhere. And then I maybe had a decent idea but there's no time to construct it. Don't wait for me, will not have anything today.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXXVI

    I, unfortunately, have not had time to finish anything, mostly due to work being intense enough that I did not have the mental energy to work on it.

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