Earliest Entry to Fiend of Possession?

[Wombles]

Hello,

We are starting a new campaign at level 5, i was wondering if it was at all possible to have any levels of FoP at this point?
And if so, how many?

I plan to be a silent character just possessing my friends weapons and enhancing them or animating random things in the room when i get high enough level to move objects

Thank you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A character with Hide and Knowledge (Arcana) as class skills in one of their classes and Able Learner (meaning human or changeling, since you probably don't want a ton of LA) who contracts lycanthropy for the bonus HD. You'll need Otherworldly to count as an outsider, Human Heritage to qualify for lycanthropy, and some way to get the [Evil] subtype, such as the rituals in Savage Species. Put ranks in Hide and Knowledge (Arcana) using your animal HD skills. Take a level in fiend of possession, adding skill ranks in the above skills. Now cure your lycanthropy and keep the PrC.

[Wombles]

A character with Hide and Knowledge (Arcana) as class skills in one of their classes and Able Learner (meaning human or changeling, since you probably don't want a ton of LA) who contracts lycanthropy for the bonus HD. You'll need Otherworldly to count as an outsider, Human Heritage to qualify for lycanthropy, and some way to get the [Evil] subtype, such as the rituals in Savage Species. Put ranks in Hide and Knowledge (Arcana) using your animal HD skills. Take a level in fiend of possession, adding skill ranks in the above skills. Now cure your lycanthropy and keep the PrC.

This seems ~mildly~ convoluted; but thank you for the idea!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since this requires three feats, you'll need flaws or some way to get additional feats.

[Wombles]

Im not my DM is going to allow "my character gained and lost lycanthropy so i could cheese my way into this class that has nothing to do with lycanthropes" as a backstory though

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Im not [sure] my DM is going to allow "my character gained and lost lycanthropy so i could cheese my way into this class that has nothing to do with lycanthropes" as a backstory though

He doesn't have to do that just so he could gain the PrC, though it could easily be a result of a series of events that just happen to equate to the above. He has a weird ancestral history, where he is a direct line from a number of odd creatures, which is why he counts as both a human and an [Evil] outsider, and he gained lycanthropy from somewhere and adventured to find a way to cure it. He did, but not until he gained power, unlocking other bits of his genetic legacy. Perhaps the outsider was a fiend of possession itself.

Now he can make it his goal to find and destroy the lycanthrope that attacked him (and possibly killed someone close to him), as well as his awful outsider ancestor -- perhaps the ghost of a pit fiend or something.

[Wombles]

He doesn't have to do that just so he could gain the PrC, though it could easily be a result of a series of events that just happen to equate to the above. He has a weird ancestral history, where he is a direct line from a number of odd creatures, which is why he counts as both a human and an [Evil] outsider, and he gained lycanthropy from somewhere and adventured to find a way to cure it. He did, but not until he gained power, unlocking other bits of his genetic legacy. Perhaps the outsider was a fiend of possession itself.

Now he can make it his goal to find and destroy the lycanthrope that attacked him (and possibly killed someone close to him), as well as his awful outsider ancestor -- perhaps the ghost of a pit fiend or something.

Well, that's hard to argue with, i'll just have to try do the level path break down to see what im actually at at level 5.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is your DM actually okay with early-entry tricks?

[Wombles]

Is your DM actually okay with early-entry tricks?

Probably not, i was looking for more of a straightforward path / race suggestions that give me the evil / outsider types with low hd and LA penalties

[Thurbane]

I think the usual answer for this one is a Diabolus (Dragon Compendium) with the Divine Minion template. LA +2, no RHD.

[Wombles]

I think the usual answer for this one is a Diabolus (Dragon Compendium) with the Divine Minion template. LA +2, no RHD.

So that would be LA+2
ECL 3 - (some class with +2 will save)
ECL 4 - (second level of above class)
ECL 5 - (Some other class with +2 will save)
ECL 6 - First level of FoP?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think the usual answer for this one is a Diabolus (Dragon Compendium) with the Divine Minion template. LA +2, no RHD.

How is LA +2 getting in early? That sounds like 2 levels late, to me.

[Thurbane]

How is LA +2 getting in early? That sounds like 2 levels late, to me.

Sorry, let me clarify - early without massive amounts of cheese probably disallowed at a lot of tables.

Also, LA buyoff is a thing in some games.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Sorry, let me clarify - early without massive amounts of cheese probably disallowed at a lot of tables.

Also, LA buyoff is a thing in some games.

The OP wants early-entry, not late-entry. Easy enough for a class with one skill as a prereq; not so much with two. Gotta get creative, and RAW the lycanthropy entry works, if nothing else.

There's a reason I asked about the DM's position on stuff like this; it might be a losing proposition no matter what.

[Paragon]

Any lesser planetouched (or Otherwordly feat), 2 (or 3) classes with good Will and Know(Arcana)/Hide as class skills (Beguiler fits the bill) and the secret ingredient Ritual of Alignment (Savage Species 148) tadaaa

[Telonius]

Okay, this will require some backtstory shenanigans. First, you need a way to be both an Outsider and have the [Evil] subtype. There are a few races that get you Outsider with 0 Level Adjustment. Neraphim (Planar Handbook) is probably the best-known, but there's another one (Glimmerfolk) from Dragon 321. Also a couple of racial classes for Tiefling and Aasimar in Savage Species.

So, you have your Outsider. What you need next is a ritual of alignment from Savage Species. These are expensive, and there's not really a good way for you to afford them by first level, if you're actually playing in a regular game with regular WBL. So, it's either TO methods of getting "free" money, or backstory shenanigans. Somebody else paid for it on your behalf. This absolutely requires DM buy-in, but there's technically nothing against the rules against it. (I used this trick in a Villainous Competition once - for a Fiend of Corruption, but it works for Possession just as well).

So we have our 0-LA Evil Outsider. All you need then is a Will save of +5. As long as you're not playing with the fractional saves variant, just pick three classes with good Will saves and take a level in each. You now have a base Will save of +6, meeting all of the prerequisites of Fiend of Possession. So, you could potentially get two levels of Fiend of Possession by level 5.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A thought just occurred.

It's much cheaper to start as an LA 0 outsider, then buy a casting of polymorph any object to turn yourself into an [Evil] outsider than it is to buy the ritual in Savage Species, and once you're in the class, you don't need to retain the prereqs unless the class says you do, so dispelling isn't a problem from that angle.

[Doctor Despair]

A thought just occurred.

It's much cheaper to start as an LA 0 outsider, then buy a casting of polymorph any object to turn yourself into an [Evil] outsider than it is to buy the ritual in Savage Species, and once you're in the class, you don't need to retain the prereqs unless the class says you do, so dispelling isn't a problem from that angle.

Regular old Polymorph should work for that, I think. You gain the Evil subtype. 4x8x40=1280, so you can afford this by ECL 3. You'd need an untemplated [evil] outsider of HD 3 or less to enter on time though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It doesn't give quite as many abilities, but the ghost savage progression (which explicitly says you can multiclass out at any time) would get you at least some of what you're after. Just use malevolence to possess critters. Then see if the DM will allow you progress your possession abilities with fiend of possession once you qualify normally, since it's actually more fitting for a ghost to possess people than, say, a tiefling.

It...does require 4 levels with no HD, though.

[ShurikVch]

Ghostwalk have two spells:
Leech Ghost Skill (Sorcerer/Wizard 5) allow to use a Ghost's skill ranks instead of your own; lasts day/CL; 100 gp materials
Demonic Blood Infusion (Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 6) gives you Fiendish template, Chaotic and Evil subtypes, and make you count as an Outsider for the purpose of spells and effects that affect only certain creature types; lasts hour/CL; 100 gp of materials

[mabriss lethe]

Speaking of Ghostwalk, the LA 0 Ghost template in the book changes your type to outsider. Skills and saves can come from whatever class works best. you just need to find a way to snag the Evil subtype and you're in. Though with a Base Save of +5, the earliest entry level would be 7.

Though as a ghostwalk ghost, you can accomplish some similar stuff while waiting to enter.

[Doctor Despair]

I suppose for OP's benefit, I'd also like to draw their attention to the "Hero's Weapon" build in my sig for any inspiration. It's literally what they're trying to do.

[ShurikVch]

Speaking of Ghostwalk, the LA 0 Ghost template in the book changes your type to outsider. Skills and saves can come from whatever class works best. you just need to find a way to snag the Evil subtype and you're in. Though with a Base Save of +5, the earliest entry level would be 7.

Though as a ghostwalk ghost, you can accomplish some similar stuff while waiting to enter.

The problem with Ghostwalk Ghost is: it railroads you into either Eidolon, or Eidoloncer - you're literally incapable to take levels in other classes (otherwise, rules for the Calling and the life epiphany wouldn't make much sense)
For LA +0 Outsiders, there are Neraphim and Glimmerfolk

[Paragon]

Found out that Divine Minion of X template gives you both Outsider & The subtype of the deity you fit in that X. So Divine Minion of Sebek grants you the Outsider [Evil] you need and it's LA+1. Meaning you can get 3 levels of 3 classes that grant good will save (or Beguiler2/X1 as I will do it) and you can get a level of Fiend of Possession as your 5th level hourray !

If the DM let's you buyoff that LA (at level 3 mind you) you can start at level 4 with a level of FoP and you'll catchup eventually to your party with 2 levels of FoP by level 5 :D

[Doctor Despair]

Found out that Divine Minion of X template gives you both Outsider & The subtype of the deity you fit in that X. So Divine Minion of Sebek grants you the Outsider [Evil] you need and it's LA+1. Meaning you can get 3 levels of 3 classes that grant good will save (or Beguiler2/X1 as I will do it) and you can get a level of Fiend of Possession as your 5th level hourray !

If the DM let's you buyoff that LA (at level 3 mind you) you can start at level 4 with a level of FoP and you'll catchup eventually to your party with 2 levels of FoP by level 5 :D

You need to have an alignment subtype already in order for the template to grant the Evil subtype, sadly. That's why we are suggesting Diabolus (LA+1) along with the Divine Minion template (LA+2) if you don't want to cheese it, or polymorph if you do.

[mabriss lethe]

The problem with Ghostwalk Ghost is: it railroads you into either Eidolon, or Eidoloncer - you're literally incapable to take levels in other classes (otherwise, rules for the Calling and the life epiphany wouldn't make much sense)
For LA +0 Outsiders, there are Neraphim and Glimmerfolk

There are sidebars in the book that deal with removing the Calling and the class restrictions from a game. Whether a GM will use/allow them or not is another matter, but the rules exist.

[Thurbane]

In terms of classes, Spellthief 2/Beguiler 1 (or vice versa) meets the skill and save reqs.

I also recommend advancing FoP with Uncanny Trickster, if you want to focus on being a skill monkey. It kind of sucks that FoP only gets 2 skill points/level. Downside is your FoP progression is delayed one level.

[Doctor Despair]

In terms of classes, Spellthief 2/Beguiler 1 (or vice versa) meets the skill and save reqs.

I also recommend advancing FoP with Uncanny Trickster, if you want to focus on being a skill monkey. It kind of sucks that FoP only gets 2 skill points/level. Downside is your FoP progression is delayed one level.

This issue with casting classes is that you can't easily supply casting components while you're in the weapon. That's why I used Ardent/ Dragon Shaman for some discrete, repeatable buffs at least

[ben-zayb]

If you're allowed convoluted backstories, you can be an LA+0 Outsider and go for "A Void Disciple wizard gave me the Assume Supernatural Ability feat, and PAOd me into a Barghest. I gained HD wih its Feed ability, progressed to FoP, then got my Barghest form (and extra HD) from PAO dispelled/disjoined." This presumes the extra HD from the Barghest's Feed ability also gets removed if you're no longer a Barghest.

Voila, you get 5 levels of FOP at level 5.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

Play as a Succubus/Incubus, use Savage Species monster class mechanic, take the "Succubus/Incubus" monster class (pg. 196) gives you +3 will, and one level in some class that gives +2 will at first level (I recommend Bard).

This allows you to take fiend of possession levels at 4th and 5th, netting you possession, curse, and magic item. No feat investment, no magic item shenanigans, no spells required, and a relatively reasonable method most any DM will approve of, especially if they approved "Fiend of Possession". Not to mention, you can use telepathy from Succubus to communicate in item form, and since you got tongues at 1st level, you can communicate with literally any intelligent creature while inside an item.