New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Feat reworks

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Feat reworks

    Feats! They replace your ASI and often most of your racial features so they're in hot competition for your character building resources. You can only get a max of 6-8 but more realistically only 2-3 over the course of your character's lifespan. There are some 75 to choose from though, and as time has progressed it has become apparent that some are lacking, others poorly worded and a few broken entirely. So lets see what we can do about that!

    Okay so gathering thoughts after feedback and some work in other threads:

    Overall goals: Remove half feats, consolidate bloat, reduce bonus action clutter, attempt to balance feats better against one another

    Feats that are unchanged: Inspiring Leader, Lucky, Mounted Combatant, Sentinel
    Feats that are currently out of scope: All racial feats
    Feats that I don't know how to handle right now: Actor, Chef, Dungeon Delver, Keen Mind, Poisoner, Skulker, Telekinetic, Telepathic. See below for details.

    Feats that are moved/merged: Artificer initiate (Magic Adept), Athlete (Mobile), Charger (Savage Attacker), Crusher (Savage Attacker), Durable (Tough), Eldritch Adept (Magical Mastery), Fey Touched (Magic Adept), Fighting Initiate (Martial Adept), Grappler (Tavern Brawler), Gunner (Crossbow Expert), Heavily Armored (Arms Tranining), Lightly Armored (Arms Training), Linguist (Skilled), Magic Initiate (Magic Adept), Metamagic Adept (Magical Mastery), Moderately Armored (Arms Training), Observant (Alert), Piercer (Sharpshooter), Resilient (Iron Will/Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes), Shadow Touched (Magic Adept), Skill Expert (Skilled), Slasher (Polearm Master), Spell Sniper (Sharpshooter), Weapon Master (Arms Training)

    Alert:
    - You gain a +5 bonus to initiative
    - You gain a +5 to your passive Perception and Investigation scores
    - Choose one:
    *You can’t be surprised while you are conscious
    *Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you

    Arms Training:
    - You gain proficiency in light and medium armor, simple and martial weapons, and shields.
    - If you are already proficient in light and medium armor or would later become proficient in light and medium by other means, you instead gain proficiency in heavy armor.

    Crossbow Expert:
    - You ignore the loading quality of ranged weapons, and can
    - Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
    - You are able to use one handed ranged weapons when Two Weapon Fighting

    Defensive Duelist:
    - When you are hit by an attack while wielding a one handed weapon, you can use your Reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against that attack, potentially causing it to miss.

    Dual Wielder:
    - When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature cannot benefit from Advantage on melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn.
    - You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn.
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can make an attack with each weapon you are wielding against the same target (with the usual weapon and stat-to-damage restrictions).

    Important to note: This is intended to see use alongside other TWF changes that I houserule:
    - By default, a weapon with the thrown quality can be drawn freely like ammunition (Daggers, handaxes, light hammers and javelins/spears/tridents for the purposes of TWF)
    - The Fighting Style grants non-light weapons and drawing/stowing two weapons at once, not +stat to damage as seen above.
    - You can use your TWF attack in order to perform a shove (or disarm or climb-on-creature if those are in play)

    Elemental Adept:
    - Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can ignore resistance to that damage type on any targets of your choice
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can apply resistance to that damage type to any targets of your choice

    Great Fortitude:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Strength or Constitution saving throws. If you are already or later become proficient in both, instead choose one to gain expertise in (yes, expertise in a saving throw)
    - When subject to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw at the start or end of your turn, you can choose to make that saving throw at the start or end of your turn

    Great Weapon Master:
    - Once per turn, when you make an attack with a melee weapon wielded in both hands you can add your Proficiency bonus to the damage roll.
    - On your turn, when you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon wielded in both hands, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action

    Healer:
    - When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point.
    - As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature, making a Medicine check and resoring hit points to it equal to the result. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.

    Iron Will:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Wisdom or Charisma saving throws. If you are already or later become proficient in both, instead choose one to gain expertise in (yes, expertise in a saving throw)
    - ???

    Lightning Reflexes:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Dexterity or Intelligence saving throws. If you are already or later become proficient in both, instead choose one to gain expertise in (yes, expertise in a saving throw)
    - After you take a Reaction, you can choose to take another on a different turn before the start of your next turn. Once you take this second reaction you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Mage Slayer:
    - You can make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that begins to cast a spell within your reach. If you hit, the target must succeed on a concentration saving throw in order to complete casting the spell.
    - When you damage a creature with a melee attack you gain advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects they use until the end of your next turn

    Magic Adept:
    - You learn the one Cantrip, one 1st-level and one 2nd-level spell of your choice. These spells must be either all from the same class list or all of the same spell school.
    - You can the 1st-level and 2nd-level spells once each without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast it in this way again until you finish a long rest.
    - You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is your choice of Int, Wis or Cha.

    Magical Mastery:
    - You learn one Warlock invocation that you meet the requirements for
    - You learn one Sorcerer Metamagic and gain Sorcery points equal to half your Proficiency bonus, which are regained when you finish a long rest

    Martial Adept:
    - You learn one fighting style from the Fighter list
    - You learn one Battlemaster Maneuver and gain one d6 Superiority die, which is regained when you finish a short or long rest. If you already have or later gain superiority dice then this d6 changes to match those.

    Mobile:
    - You gain your choice of +10 feet to your movement speed, a Climb speed equal to your movement or a Swim speed equal to your movement
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
    - Standing from prone only costs you 5 feet of movement, and you can make a running jump without a running start

    Polearm Master:
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    - Once per turn when you hit a creature with a reach weapon, you can reduce the speed of the target by 10 feet until the start of your next turn
    - Attacks you make with reach weapons ignore cover provided by creatures adjacent to you

    Ritual Caster:
    - Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag. You can cast the chosen spells as rituals using your choice of Int, Wis or Cha as casting stat
    - You can add other ritual spells to your repertoire. When you find such a spell, you can learn it if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up). Learning the spell destroys the source material
    - Casting a spell as a ritual only adds 1 minute to the casting time instead of 10, and you are able to cast rituals at one spell level higher than their base level (only Animal Messenger has an upcast, but it makes Dispelling tougher)

    Savage Attacker:
    - When you take the Dash action you can make one melee weapon attack or shove attempt at the end of your movement. You cannot move again on your turn after you make this attack or shove.
    - When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, the next attack roll made against the target before the end of your next turn has advantage
    - When you have advantage on a melee weapon attack and both rolls would hit you can roll one additional weapon damage die

    Sharpshooter:
    - When making ranged attacks you treat 3/4 cover as 1/2 cover, and 1/2 cover as no cover
    - You double the short range of any ranged weapon attacks you make, and the range of any ranged spell attacks you make
    - When you roll damage for a ranged attack, you can re-roll one of the attack’s damage dice, and you must use the new roll.

    Shield Master: (this one is contentious)
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover to other creatures, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to effects that target an area (think the old Complete Warrior Divine Shield imagery)

    See above notes on TWF, this allows you to replicate the BA shove of the original feat.
    Also note that shield bashing doesn't work with the Dueling Fighting style but would with the TWF style, unless you're otherwise unarmed.

    Skilled:
    - You gain proficiency in two skills or tools of your choice
    - You gain expertise in one skill or tool that you are proficient in
    - You learn one language of your choice

    Tavern Brawler:
    - You gain proficiency with improvised weapons, and your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 for damage
    - You can grapple and shove creatures as if you were one size category larger
    - While you are grappling a creature you have advantage on attack rolls against the grappled creature

    Tough:
    - You gain extra HP equal to twice your proficiency bonus (this increases when your Prof bonus does)
    - Whenever another creature causes you to regain hit points, you can use your Reaction to recover further. Roll (and expend) one Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)
    - When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum result is equal to your Constitution modifier (if you have a 20 Con you can actually heal 5 from a d4, but no published classes have a d4 Hit Die)

    War Caster:
    - You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons, implements or a shield in one or both hands.
    - When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a cantrip at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The cantrip must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.

    So that's some 50 odd feats reduced to 30 or so. Much more manageable!
    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-12-18 at 04:13 AM.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Oh, Kane0's brewing again. Better let my group know there'll be some changes coming to our game :P

    Honestly I love all of these. Joining feats that do similar things was a very strong move, and I feel immediately more attracted to these than the official feats when I first started playing 5e. I've pretty much always disliked 5e feats, but now I'm warming up to the idea.

    Anyway, you do you, I'll start pillaging right away xD

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Full disclosure, most of these were already sitting in my extended sig but I wanted to bring up a separate thread to discuss them specifically. Too much in one thread can put people off.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Good call!

    Note, I'm really bad at balancing feats, especially since some are "half feats" and others are not. This just confuses the everliving manure out of me, but here I go anyways

    - Is Dual Wielder overtuned? It feel that it might be.
    - Hardy is a GREAT solution to the "ugggghhh" of original feat!
    - Armor Master should probably only remove the Stealth Penalty of medium armor -shrug-. Mithral Armor is still a thing, for your heavy armor-users.
    - Sharpshooter feels unsatisfying :/
    - Skilled could be a choice between two skills or one skill and one expertise?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    - Is Dual Wielder overtuned? It feel that it might be.
    - Hardy is a GREAT solution to the "ugggghhh" of original feat!
    - Armor Master should probably only remove the Stealth Penalty of medium armor -shrug-. Mithral Armor is still a thing, for your heavy armor-users.
    - Sharpshooter feels unsatisfying :/
    - Skilled could be a choice between two skills or one skill and one expertise?
    Dual wielder is specifically designed to be as potent as polearm master, great weaponmaster and crossbow expert. So its on the stronger side as a style defining combat only feat, but doesnt actually increase your damage output apart from opp attacks nor defense beyond just using a shield. Freeing up your bonus action is the biggest benefit, since many if not most TWFers want or have something else to use their BA on and TWF gets in the way.

    I dont want to rely on magic gear as a rule of thumb, the AC bonus doesnt apply to heavy armor and the stealth cancellation is rather easy to mitigate by other sources of advantage.

    Double short range and downgrading cover not worth it you feel? Or is it because the damage bonus is gone? I wanted to avoid just giving ranged attackers the same raw damage increases that melee can pick up by virtue of not being face to face with dangerous foes

    Very true, a choice would fit well there

    Edit: Updated the OP!
    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-12-02 at 06:53 AM.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Adding the categories makes everything make much more sense 😱

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    You don't dot any of your sentences -.-"
    The following comments are based of personal opinion and should not be taken as seriously as advice from somone who's actually any good at developing games.

    Crossbow Mastery;
    - So I can main-hand-pew and than off-hand-pew? Or stab and then pew?

    Professional Brawler
    - Is there a reason why there has never been any "rogue-fist" support? It would not fit this feat at all, it just got me thinking.

    Sharpshooter
    - I don't know how often a sharpshooter will be making melee weapon attacks with advantage :P

    Shield Master
    - I know you are mostly just merging feats and making small adjustments. But why was "use shield as a light weapon" ever a thing? Can I use a rapier and a shield for two-weapon fighting? Is that a fantasy for some people? Is it just a "hey, you can now deal more damage even if you're using a shield?". Maybe most dnd players care a lot more about damage than I, but I feel like the design space for that last bit could be better used for some awesome defender-y stuff :S

    Elven Accuracy (and more)
    - Did you remove all feat requirements, or just fail to list them? I'm assuming the former, but I'd rather be sure.

    Mobile
    - Is this really a full feat? This could just as easily qualify as a good half-feat -shrug-
    - I feel like this could be easily merged with Athlete, or Alert, with very minimal changes.

    EDIT:r This feat is listed as one of the stronger feats in the game! What?!

    Dual Weilder
    - Does it need to +1 to AC to compete, or could you lose that and change it to a half feat?

    Warcaster
    - also ranged cantrips? I know it doesn't make sense, but it doesnt specify that

    Mageslayer
    - As a DM, I hate everything about this feat -.-"
    Like is the "whenever you hit a ..." really needed x'D

    Savage Attacker
    - I still feel like that attack should be made with an advantage, and I think you should be able to choose if you want to attack once or attempt to shove the target.

    Defensive Duelist
    - Does not state that the other hand has to be empty. Can I use this with a shield?

    Sentinel
    - You don't think the retaliation attack is one-step-too-far? I was sure this feat would get nerfed.

    Arms Training
    Would you not limit which fighting styles? And it's still a half-feat even though you can get a fighting style from it

    Dragontouched
    I'm really interested to hear why you decided to keep this feat in. Same with Dungeon Delver and Keen Mind.

    Healer
    How is "maximum number of Hit Dice" not just "equal to your level"?


    Lucky:
    This is a very popular. You don't think it's worth nerfing it to "You have 2 luck points", just to make it more in line with other feats?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    I'll take this over to your thread with these comments in mind.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Crossbow Mastery (Gunner is removed as duplicate)
    - You are able to use ranged weapons that are not two handed when Two Weapon Fighting
    The wording here is awkward. TWF already requires a one-handed weapon (sort of; it requires the weapon be held in one hand), so just extend TWF to work with ranged weapons.

    Dual Wielder:
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can also make an attack using your off hand against the same target
    I'd reword this to say that when you make an OA, you can make one attack with each weapon, and the second weapon attack doesn't add your ability mod to the damage unless you have the fighting style.

    Polearm Mastery:
    - When you make an attack with a reach weapon as part of the attack action, as a bonus action you can make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. This attack is not treated as having reach and uses a d4 for its damage die.
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    So the first benefit requires you to negate the benefit of a reach weapon, and the second benefit doesn't apply to spears. I get why you'd want to rebalance this feat, I'm just not sure I fond of how you did so. Personally, I'd probably go the route of axing the BA attack and giving a different benefit instead.

    Shield Master
    - On your turn you can make a Shove attempt as a Bonus Action using a shield (at any time, boo Crawford)
    - You add the AC bonus of your shield to Dexterity saving throws
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    It's actually RAW that you can do the shield shove before attack, so long as you take the Attack action later on the same turn. And no, what Crawford or any other D&D dev says doesn't matter, only what they wrote in the book. Interesting that you don't require the Attack action; this could be really nice on a cleric or other shield-using spellcaster.

    I'm sad to see the pseudo-Evasion get axed, I think that was a great benefit of this feat. Not overpowered, either, since it eats your reaction and only negates half damage from a successful save, it doesn't halve the damage on a failed save like Evasion does.

    War Caster
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells without a free hand
    - When you make an opportunity attack you can cast a Cantrip targeting (only) the creature instead of making a weapon attack
    Ah, so we can cast spells while our hands our bound, then. That's a huge buff to this feat.

    Not entirely sure why you nerfed the replace-an-OA-with-a-spell benefit. It made for some really interesting and lateral tactics, like replacing the OA with a Healing Word on a downed ally. Strong? Yes, but that's why it's a feat. It's already limited by the need to target only one creature, what's your reasoning for wanting to further limit it?

    Elemental Adept
    - When you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of the chosen type, you can choose any number of targets affected by the spell to gain resistance to that damage
    Interesting, so it helps reduce friendly fire. I think this is a great addition to the feat. You shouldn't use it much, but there will undoubtedly be a few times where you're glad you have it.

    Superior Accuracy (replaces Elven accuracy)
    - Any time you roll an attack with advantage, roll three d20 instead of two and choose the higher result
    BRB, gonna build a half-orc barbarian Reckless Attack crit-fisher with this.

    I understand wanting to generalize this, and it might actually be fine, but limiting it to DEX and mental stats did close off some potential exploits (e.g. Reckless Attack, which requires you to be using STR).

    Armor Master (replaces Medium and Heavy armor mastery)
    - Wearing armor does not impose disadvantage on your Dexterity (Stealth) checks
    - While wearing light or medium armor you gain +1 AC
    - While wearing heavy armor bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage that you take from attacks is reduced by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus
    Not sure I like this. First of all, MAM and HAM being half feats made them more accessible on feat-starved builds. Second, this is objectively worse than MAM, since it gives a medium armor wearer nothing extra while still taking away the half ASI. Third, this extends the stealth benefit to heavy armor wearers, which feels contrary to the design of armor in the first place.

    I feel like it was supposed to be an intentional choice, where light armor is for stealth and heavy armor is for maximum AC. Medium armor sits in the middle, being just slightly worse than either option, but better for those with less martial training (i.e. lower DEX and/or lack of heavy armor proficiency). MAM then turns medium armor into the best of both, getting plate-level AC with no stealth penalty, which makes sense for medium armor.

    I don't really see a reason to combine these feats. If you do, then you should have separate benefits for each armor category. And leave it as a half feat, or give additional benefits.

    Defensive Duelist
    +1 Dexterity
    - When you are hit by an attack while wielding a weapon in one hand, you can use your Reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against that attack, potentially causing the attack to miss.
    This reminds me of a kenei monk build I was thinking about, where it made sense for the concept to take a longsword as one of my kensei weapons, but I also wanted to use Defensive Duelist. This would allow that by default without needing to convince the DM to bend the rules. Off the top of my head, I can't think of how extending this to STR weapons would break anything. Something to be aware of is that this would work with one-handed ranged weapons, like slings or hand crossbows (IIRC darts already worked, since they're finesse), but maybe that's not a problem.

    Hardy (replaces Durable, Tough and Dwarven Fortitude)
    - You gain extra HP equal to twice your proficiency bonus (this increases when your Prof bonus does)
    - Whenever you take the Dodge action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)
    - When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum result is equal to your Constitution modifier (if you have a 20 Con you can actually heal 5 from a d4, but no published classes have a d4 Hit Die)
    I actually like some of the things you've done here. Combining these all together means that some of the more niche feats might see more use. Scaling the HP bonus off your prof bonus means you'll get more HP early on, but end up with less extra HP later. I suppose this is balanced by getting the other benefits. The loss of the +1 CON will hurt on some builds, but getting all of these together might balance that out (Tough didn't get a CON bump anyway).

    Arms Training (replaces lightly armored, moderately armored, heavily armored, weapon master)
    +1 Strength, Dexterity or Constitution
    - You gain proficiency with light armor. If you're already proficient you gain proficiency with medium armor and shields, or heavy armor if you're already proficient in those too.
    - You gain proficiency with Simple weapons. If you're already proficient you gain proficiency with martial weapons, or can select one fighting style if you're already proficient in those too.
    There's basically no point in giving proficiency with light armor. Every class either already has light armor proficiency, or they have some kind of alternative (e.g. Mage Armor, Unarmored Defense). You might as well skip straight to medium armor by default. Ditto for simple weapons: everyone is already proficient with daggers, darts, quarterstaves, slings, and light crossbows, which covers pretty much all your bases. These are basically already the best simple weapons, so if you want an upgrade you'll need access to martial weapons.

    What I did a while back, before Tasha's gave us a feat for fighting styles, was that I made my own feat that gave a fighting style, and it gave you proficiencies depending on which fighting style you took. Defense gave you light and medium armor, Protection gave shields, and any other fighting style gave two weapons of your choice. This basically insured you'd be able to make use of your new fighting style by supplying you with the requisite proficiencies (Protection is useless without a shield, for example). You don't have to link it with fighting styles, but you might consider a similar option.

    Magic Adept (replaces magic initiate, artificer initiate, fey touched, shadow touched, drow magic, svirfneblin magic, wood elf magic, etc)
    Choosing Int, Wis or Cha as your casting stat you learn one Cantrip, one 1st level spell and one 2nd level spell all from either A) the same class list or B) the same spell school. The first and second level spells can each be cast once per long rest and are added as free spells known if you are already a spellcaster with slots that you can use to cast them.
    I like my cantrips, so I might actually rather have vanilla Magic Initiate in some cases, but I think this works really well. It basically mirrors racial spellcasting traits. The loss of the half ASI does make it less accessible than Fey/Shadow Touched, but the greater freedom in spell options plus the addition of a cantrip probably makes up for that.

    Skilled (merges prodigy and skill expert)
    - Whenever you make an ability check that you are proficient in, you can treat a d20 roll of 5 or lower as a 6.
    Not sure how I feel about this. I mean, if I wasn't a rogue, I'd love to have this on a skill monkey. I'm just not sure if it might be too strong. Then again, it's basically useless if a 6 isn't enough to pass. As such, it might even make sense to cut it just because it won't actually be useful unless you're minmaxed to the extreme (and such characters are not the ones in need of a leg up). Maybe if you changed it to work like a 1/long rest Reliable Talent or something, that might work better.

    Dungeon Delver
    - You gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet. If you already have Darkvision it improves, being able to discern color
    This is one of just a few aspects of darkvision that rein it in and keep it from being super strong. The others being the limited range, and treating darkness like dim light. Given how ubiquitous darkvision is, I'd refrain from making it any stronger. Simply granting darkvision to someone who doesn't have it should be sufficient.

    Keen Mind (merges linguist)
    - You can learn new languages and proficiencies (Xanathars downtime) in half the time
    Does this halve the base 10 week time, for a minimum of 0 weeks with 20 INT, or does it have the time after applying the reduction from INT, so just 2.5 weeks? IDK, maybe this is a little much?

    Anyway, that's my two cents. Hopefully you find something here useful.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    The wording here is awkward. TWF already requires a one-handed weapon (sort of; it requires the weapon be held in one hand), so just extend TWF to work with ranged weapons.
    Yeah I was hoping to avoid that 'sort of' ambiguity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I'd reword this to say that when you make an OA, you can make one attack with each weapon, and the second weapon attack doesn't add your ability mod to the damage unless you have the fighting style.
    Yeah that's the intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    So the first benefit requires you to negate the benefit of a reach weapon, and the second benefit doesn't apply to spears. I get why you'd want to rebalance this feat, I'm just not sure I fond of how you did so. Personally, I'd probably go the route of axing the BA attack and giving a different benefit instead.
    Fair, any ideas for a good replacement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    It's actually RAW that you can do the shield shove before attack, so long as you take the Attack action later on the same turn. And no, what Crawford or any other D&D dev says doesn't matter, only what they wrote in the book. Interesting that you don't require the Attack action; this could be really nice on a cleric or other shield-using spellcaster.

    I'm sad to see the pseudo-Evasion get axed, I think that was a great benefit of this feat. Not overpowered, either, since it eats your reaction and only negates half damage from a successful save, it doesn't halve the damage on a failed save like Evasion does.
    Yeah I thought i'd specifically address it, because not everyone agrees.

    I've been working on said other thread with Bjark and instead did something else for Shield Master, perhaps this feels better?
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to area of effect attacks, spells and abilities
    - You add the AC bonus of your shield to Dexterity saving throws
    'Shield bash' is a popular thing in media and at the table but isn't actually a thing in 5e, so this enables it while also delivering the original bonus action shove in the same stroke (TWF with your shield, exchange the attack for a shove). And of course it makes you better at protecting yourself and others with said shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Ah, so we can cast spells while our hands our bound, then. That's a huge buff to this feat.

    Not entirely sure why you nerfed the replace-an-OA-with-a-spell benefit. It made for some really interesting and lateral tactics, like replacing the OA with a Healing Word on a downed ally. Strong? Yes, but that's why it's a feat. It's already limited by the need to target only one creature, what's your reasoning for wanting to further limit it?
    Yeah I never considered that the major part of the feat, that being the concentration and ability to have a shield. I wanted to curb the ability to drop high level spells on OAs (felt like a bit of a power disparity) and clean up the wording.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Interesting, so it helps reduce friendly fire. I think this is a great addition to the feat. You shouldn't use it much, but there will undoubtedly be a few times where you're glad you have it.
    Certainly a hit with my players thus far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    BRB, gonna build a half-orc barbarian Reckless Attack crit-fisher with this.

    I understand wanting to generalize this, and it might actually be fine, but limiting it to DEX and mental stats did close off some potential exploits (e.g. Reckless Attack, which requires you to be using STR).
    Mathematically speaking, I haven't found a problem with it. Crit fishing is generally not optimal and Dex needs no additional benefits over Str. Funnily enough the first thing I did was test a Half Orc Champion/Barbarian and yeah, not really a huge difference over most other feat choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Not sure I like this. First of all, MAM and HAM being half feats made them more accessible on feat-starved builds. Second, this is objectively worse than MAM, since it gives a medium armor wearer nothing extra while still taking away the half ASI. Third, this extends the stealth benefit to heavy armor wearers, which feels contrary to the design of armor in the first place.

    I feel like it was supposed to be an intentional choice, where light armor is for stealth and heavy armor is for maximum AC. Medium armor sits in the middle, being just slightly worse than either option, but better for those with less martial training (i.e. lower DEX and/or lack of heavy armor proficiency). MAM then turns medium armor into the best of both, getting plate-level AC with no stealth penalty, which makes sense for medium armor.

    I don't really see a reason to combine these feats. If you do, then you should have separate benefits for each armor category. And leave it as a half feat, or give additional benefits.
    Good thoughts, I'll have to reconsider this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    This reminds me of a kenei monk build I was thinking about, where it made sense for the concept to take a longsword as one of my kensei weapons, but I also wanted to use Defensive Duelist. This would allow that by default without needing to convince the DM to bend the rules. Off the top of my head, I can't think of how extending this to STR weapons would break anything. Something to be aware of is that this would work with one-handed ranged weapons, like slings or hand crossbows (IIRC darts already worked, since they're finesse), but maybe that's not a problem.
    I hadn't intended it to work with ranged weapons, I should probably specify melee weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I actually like some of the things you've done here. Combining these all together means that some of the more niche feats might see more use. Scaling the HP bonus off your prof bonus means you'll get more HP early on, but end up with less extra HP later. I suppose this is balanced by getting the other benefits. The loss of the +1 CON will hurt on some builds, but getting all of these together might balance that out (Tough didn't get a CON bump anyway).
    Yeah, Resilient (Con) being the alternative in many cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    There's basically no point in giving proficiency with light armor. Every class either already has light armor proficiency, or they have some kind of alternative (e.g. Mage Armor, Unarmored Defense). You might as well skip straight to medium armor by default. Ditto for simple weapons: everyone is already proficient with daggers, darts, quarterstaves, slings, and light crossbows, which covers pretty much all your bases. These are basically already the best simple weapons, so if you want an upgrade you'll need access to martial weapons.

    What I did a while back, before Tasha's gave us a feat for fighting styles, was that I made my own feat that gave a fighting style, and it gave you proficiencies depending on which fighting style you took. Defense gave you light and medium armor, Protection gave shields, and any other fighting style gave two weapons of your choice. This basically insured you'd be able to make use of your new fighting style by supplying you with the requisite proficiencies (Protection is useless without a shield, for example). You don't have to link it with fighting styles, but you might consider a similar option.
    Interesting. How would this compare then?
    +1 Strength, Dexterity or Constitution
    - Your armor proficiency increases by one category (None > Light > Medium+Shields > Heavy)
    - You gain proficiency in all Simple and Martial weapons. If you are already proficient in martial weapons you can instead select one Fighting Style taken from the Fighter list.
    Useful for anyone to get even if they start with no profs or all of them. There are quite a few races and classes that only get up to medium armor prof, or medium armor but not shields.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I like my cantrips, so I might actually rather have vanilla Magic Initiate in some cases, but I think this works really well. It basically mirrors racial spellcasting traits. The loss of the half ASI does make it less accessible than Fey/Shadow Touched, but the greater freedom in spell options plus the addition of a cantrip probably makes up for that.
    Indeed; I consider Fey/Shadow Touched to be very good feats and one of my yardsticks (on the upper end of the range). I wanted to consolidate most of the spellcasting feats to the same framework without exceeding their strength or flexibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Not sure how I feel about this. I mean, if I wasn't a rogue, I'd love to have this on a skill monkey. I'm just not sure if it might be too strong. Then again, it's basically useless if a 6 isn't enough to pass. As such, it might even make sense to cut it just because it won't actually be useful unless you're minmaxed to the extreme (and such characters are not the ones in need of a leg up). Maybe if you changed it to work like a 1/long rest Reliable Talent or something, that might work better.
    It does guarantee hitting a DC 10 with a stat bonus of +2, or less at higher Prof bonuses. I don't think Rogues would really want to pick up Skilled, seeing the number of skills and expertise they get anyways, so this feat is like being a Rogue-lite in a similar way to Eldritch Adept or Metamagic Adept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    This is one of just a few aspects of darkvision that rein it in and keep it from being super strong. The others being the limited range, and treating darkness like dim light. Given how ubiquitous darkvision is, I'd refrain from making it any stronger. Simply granting darkvision to someone who doesn't have it should be sufficient.
    Really, color darkvision is the breaking point? It's still got all the other limitations, and the rest of the feat is still pretty niche.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Does this halve the base 10 week time, for a minimum of 0 weeks with 20 INT, or does it have the time after applying the reduction from INT, so just 2.5 weeks? IDK, maybe this is a little much?
    It would be afterwards, to 2.5 weeks. It's heavily dependent on the DM providing downtime and the player choosing to spend it on this, but even best case scenario it's still basically no better than certain 1st/2nd level spells, invocations, channel divinities and similar features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Anyway, that's my two cents. Hopefully you find something here useful.
    Very much so, thanks!
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    I'll try to keep this from getting too long, so I might skip over some things I don't have much else to say about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Yeah I was hoping to avoid that 'sort of' ambiguity.
    It's not so much ambiguity, I think it might only exist so that TWF doesn't work with versatile weapons (which are technically one-handed weapons) that are held in two hands. Just extending TWF to work with ranged weapons should be fine, it wouldn't introduce any issues that didn't already exist with melee weapons.

    Yeah that's the intent.
    TWF is pretty wonky, so I'd encourage you to look again at how it was written and try to match that (so you don't make it even more wonky). For example, there's no such thing as an "off hand", and your feat doesn't make it clear that you don't add your modifier to the damage roll of the second attack.

    You could also consider how TWF fits in between sword'n'board and two-handed styles. Two-handers are obviously more for damage, and a shield for defense. Maybe TWF should do something completely different, or should strike a balance between the two? Maybe TWF could be versatile and allow you to switch between offense and defense? Of course, at that point you might need to completely rewrite how TWF works instead of just tweaking the feat.

    Fair, any ideas for a good replacement?
    +1 AC while two-handing a polearm? I feel like that might not be enough. It's a defensive feat, so you might lean into that and add another defensive benefit, or balance it by adding an offensive benefit. I don't really know enough about polearm fighting to suggest anything else.

    Yeah I thought i'd specifically address it, because not everyone agrees.

    I've been working on said other thread with Bjark and instead did something else for Shield Master, perhaps this feels better?
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to area of effect attacks, spells and abilities
    - You add the AC bonus of your shield to Dexterity saving throws
    'Shield bash' is a popular thing in media and at the table but isn't actually a thing in 5e, so this enables it while also delivering the original bonus action shove in the same stroke (TWF with your shield, exchange the attack for a shove). And of course it makes you better at protecting yourself and others with said shield.
    Probably not a good idea to allow players to combine sword'n'board with TWF. If you're using a shield, it's because you want more defense, not offense.

    3/4 cover is +5 to AC and DEX saves. Would this apply to the character with Shield Master as well? Would it stack with their normal shield bonus? 3/4 cover is a lot, I'd avoid going that route. Maybe you could grant half cover (+2 to AC and DEX saves) to anyone within 5 feet of you (but not to yourself), but even then I'd tie it to an action, either your bonus action, your reaction, or their reaction.

    Again, I'd bring back the pseudo-Evasion, as that's a nice defensive feature that most players would be happy to have.

    Yeah I never considered that the major part of the feat, that being the concentration and ability to have a shield. I wanted to curb the ability to drop high level spells on OAs (felt like a bit of a power disparity) and clean up the wording.
    Not needing a free hand to perform somatic components means you can cast spells with somatic components even if your hands are cut off. I... just don't think that's what this feat was ever intended to do. At most, I would only allow you to perform somatic components with a hand that is holding an item or grappling a creature.

    Fair enough for the OA spells. It will cut off some of the more creative tactics, but limiting it to cantrips is still pretty reasonable. As the saying goes, when someone takes away a privilege, it feels like oppression. If Warcaster had always only allowed cantrips on OAs, then we probably would have been fine with it.

    I hadn't intended it to work with ranged weapons, I should probably specify melee weapons.
    Not necessarily. Just because something wasn't intended doesn't mean you shouldn't leave it in. If someone is going to the trouble to take Defensive Duelist on a ranged weapon user, why not let them use it? Remember, Defensive Duelist only works against melee attacks (or not? seems you changed that in your rewrite).

    Interesting. How would this compare then?
    +1 Strength, Dexterity or Constitution
    - Your armor proficiency increases by one category (None > Light > Medium+Shields > Heavy)
    - You gain proficiency in all Simple and Martial weapons. If you are already proficient in martial weapons you can instead select one Fighting Style taken from the Fighter list.
    Useful for anyone to get even if they start with no profs or all of them. There are quite a few races and classes that only get up to medium armor prof, or medium armor but not shields.
    Hmm, not sure about this. I think I might make it three different feats, all half feats. One would give you light and medium armor, one would give shields, and one would give heavy armor. I feel like each one should offer one more minor benefit as well, but probably something that classes who already have those proficiencies wouldn't want or benefit from. For example, maybe each of these also gives two weapon proficiencies?

    It does guarantee hitting a DC 10 with a stat bonus of +2, or less at higher Prof bonuses. I don't think Rogues would really want to pick up Skilled, seeing the number of skills and expertise they get anyways, so this feat is like being a Rogue-lite in a similar way to Eldritch Adept or Metamagic Adept.
    A while back I was working on a class that was meant to be a jack-of-all-trades, getting access to every spell list and lots of skills (very loosely based on the Factotum from an older edition). One of the features I gave them was called "Unreliable Talent". On a roll of 4 to 9, it would change to a 10, but 3 or less would stay as-is. Maybe you could do something like that? (5 to 9 might work better.) That way it's still weaker than Reliable Talent, but also still useful without needing high bonuses to the roll.

    Really, color darkvision is the breaking point? It's still got all the other limitations, and the rest of the feat is still pretty niche.
    Okay, maybe I overreacted. I guess I just don't see the point in giving color darkvision. It might not be that significant, but it's also one of only a few tools the DM has to encourage darkvision parties to use light. For example, color-based puzzles, or factions with similar looking uniforms/insignias that are different colors. Maybe give them something more useful? Or again, just treat it as "free darkvision for anyone who doesn't already have it".

    For an alternative benefit, maybe any time a trap is triggered, they can use a reaction to shove someone within reach up to 5 feet in any direction. This could allow you to save a party member from getting caught in a trap, or shove an enemy into the trap (using a contested check, as per the normal shoving rules).

    Very much so, thanks!
    You're welcome!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Okay so gathering thoughts after feedback and some work in other threads:

    Overall goal: Remove half feats, consolidate bloat, attempt to balance feats better against one another

    Feats that are unchanged: Inspiring Leader, Lucky, Mounted Combatant, Sentinel
    Feats that are currently out of scope: All racial feats
    Feats that I don't know how to handle right now: Actor, Chef, Dungeon Delver, Keen Mind, Poisoner, Skulker, Telekinetic, Telepathic (I'm thinking Delver/Poisoner/Skulker can be redone as two feats which will also include Darkvision somewhere, and Telekinetic/Telepathic merged into one as a Psionic counterpart to Magic Adept. Actor, Chef and Keen Mind no idea, they can probably just get cut and most people won't miss them?)

    Feats that are cut because their stuff got moved or merged: Artificer initiate (Magic Adept), Athlete (Mobile), Charger (Savage Attacker), Crusher (Savage Attacker), Durable (Tough), Eldritch Adept (Magical Mastery), Fey Touched (Magic Adept), Fighting Initiate (Martial Adept), Grappler (Tavern Brawler), Gunner (Crossbow Expert), Heavily Armored (Arms Tranining), Lightly Armored (Arms Training), Linguist (Skilled), Magic Initiate (Magic Adept), Metamagic Adept (Magical Mastery), Moderately Armored (Arms Training), Observant (Alert), Piercer (Sharpshooter), Resilient (Iron Will/Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes), Shadow Touched (Magic Adept), Skill Expert (Skilled), Slasher (Polearm Master), Spell Sniper (Sharpshooter), Weapon Master (Arms Training)

    Alert:
    - You gain a +5 bonus to initiative
    - You gain a +5 to your passive Perception and Investigation scores
    - Choose one:
    *You can’t be surprised while you are conscious
    *Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you

    Arms Training:
    - You gain proficiency in light and medium armor, simple and martial weapons, and shields.
    - If you are already proficient in light and medium armor or would later become proficient in light and medium by other means, you instead gain proficiency in heavy armor.

    Crossbow Expert:
    - You ignore the loading quality of ranged weapons
    - Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
    - You are able to use one handed ranged weapons when Two Weapon Fighting

    Defensive Duelist:
    - When you are hit by an attack while wielding a one handed weapon, you can use your Reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against that attack, potentially causing it to miss.

    Dual Wielder:
    - You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn.
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can make an attack with each weapon you are wielding against the same target (with the usual weapon and stat-to-damage restrictions).
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature cannot benefit from Advantage on melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn (eg Pack Tactics).

    Elemental Adept:
    - Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can ignore resistance to that damage type on any targets of your choice
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can apply resistance to that damage type to any targets of your choice

    Great Fortitude:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Strength or Constitution saving throws
    - When subject to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw at the start or end of your turn, you can choose to make that saving throw at the start or end of your turn

    Great Weapon Master:
    - Once per turn, when you make an attack with a melee weapon wielded in both hands you can add your Proficiency bonus to the damage roll.
    - On your turn, when you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon wielded in both hands, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action

    Healer:
    - When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point.
    - As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature, making a Medicine check and resoring hit points to it equal to the result. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.

    Iron Will:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Wisdom or Charisma saving throws
    - ???

    Lightning Reflexes:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Dexterity or Intelligence saving throws
    - After you take a Reaction, you can choose to take another on a different turn before the start of your next turn. Once you take your second reaction you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Mage Slayer:
    - You can make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that begins to cast a spell within your reach, potentially causing that creature to lose the spell if the attack hits and they fail a Concentration saving throw
    - You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects used by creatures within your reach

    Magic Adept:
    - You learn the one Cantrip, one 1st-level and one 2nd-level spell of your choice. These spells must be either all from the same class list or all of the same spell school.
    - You can the 1st-level and 2nd-level spells once each without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast it in this way again until you finish a long rest.
    - You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is your choice of Int, Wis or Cha.

    Magical Mastery:
    - You learn one Warlock invocation that you meet the requirements for
    - You learn one Sorcerer Metamagic and gain Sorcery points equal to half your Proficiency bonus, which are regained when you finish a long rest

    Martial Adept:
    - You learn one fighting style from the Fighter list
    - You learn one Battlemaster Maneuver and gain one d6 Superiority die, which is regained when you finish a short or long rest

    Mobile:
    - You gain your choice of +10 feet to your movement speed, a Climb speed equal to your movement or a Swim speed equal to your movement
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
    - Standing from prone only costs you 5 feet of movement, and you can make a running jump without a running start

    Polearm Master:
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    - Once per turn when you hit a creature with a reach weapon, you can reduce the speed of the target by 10 feet until the start of your next turn
    - Attacks you make with reach weapons ignore cover provided by creatures adjacent to you

    Ritual Caster:
    - Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag. You can cast the chosen spells as rituals using your choice of Int, Wis or Cha as casting stat
    - You can add other ritual spells to your repertoire. When you find such a spell, you can learn it if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up). Learning the spell destroys the source material
    - Casting a spell as a ritual only adds 1 minute to the casting time instead of 10, and you are able to cast rituals at one spell level higher than their base level (only Animal Messenger has an upcast, but it makes Dispelling tougher)

    Savage Attacker:
    - When you use your action to Dash you can make one melee weapon attack or shove attempt at the end of your movement. You cannot move again on your turn after you make this attack or shove.
    - When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, the next attack roll made against the target before the end of your next turn has advantage
    - When you have advantage on a melee weapon attack and both rolls would hit you can roll one additional weapon damage die

    Sharpshooter:
    - When making ranged attacks you treat 3/4 cover as 1/2 cover, and 1/2 cover as no cover
    - You double the short range of any ranged weapon attacks you make, and the range of any ranged spell attacks you make
    - Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a ranged attack, you can re-roll one of the attack’s damage dice, and you must use the new roll.

    Shield Master: (this one is contentious)
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover to other creatures, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to effects that target an area (think the old Complete Warrior Divine Shield imagery)

    Skilled:
    - You gain proficiency in two skills or tools of your choice
    - You gain expertise in one skill or tool that you are proficient in
    - You learn one language of your choice

    Tavern Brawler:
    - You gain proficiency with improvised weapons, and your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 for damage
    - You can grapple and shove creatures as if you were one size category larger
    - While you are grappling a creature you have advantage on attack rolls against the grappled creature

    Tough:
    - You gain extra HP equal to twice your proficiency bonus (this increases when your Prof bonus does)
    - Whenever another creature causes you to regain hit points, you can use your Reaction to recover further. Roll (and expend) one Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)
    - When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum result is equal to your Constitution modifier (if you have a 20 Con you can actually heal 5 from a d4, but no published classes have a d4 Hit Die)

    War Caster:
    - You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons, implements or a shield in one or both hands.
    - When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a cantrip at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The cantrip must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-12-12 at 09:28 PM.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Okay so gathering thoughts after feedback and some work in other threads:

    Overall goal: Remove half feats, consolidate bloat, attempt to balance feats better against one another
    These generally sound like good goals. I'd like to see feats split off from ASIs, so that feats are obtained by some other means (e.g. spending XP at an escalating cost, via downtime training, as quest rewards, etc.), but half feats become kind of awkward when feats are separated from ASIs.

    Before I comment on specific feats, I just want to say that I noticed certain features that have been removed entirely. I understand wanting to condense and streamline, but sometimes that specific feature was one reason why people took that specific feat. For example, you made Alert no longer remove advantage from an unseen attacker. This aspect of Alert made it synergize nicely with something like Fog Cloud, which would blind everyone, but because of Alert enemies wouldn't get advantage on their attacks, and thus would attack with disadvantage because they were blinded too. Just something to consider.

    Alert:
    - When you roll for Initiative you can choose to add your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier to the check
    - You can’t be surprised while you are conscious
    - You gain a +5 to your passive Perception and Investigation scores
    I like that you're merging this with Observant, I think that makes sense. And I get why you had to remove some aspects of Alert to balance out the new additions. Unfortunately, I think you may have missed out on why people take Alert in the first place. The bonus to initiative is the main bonus, because acting first can have a huge impact on how the fight swings. This version essentially gives nothing to DEX builds, and only marginally buffs INT and WIS casters (heavy armor clerics probably get the most benefit out of this). Everyone else essentially gets nothing in terms of an initiative bonus. And as I mentioned above, removing advantage from unseen attackers was a nice benefit to have that could lead to some specific tactics when used as pseudo-blindsight.

    In the end, I'd leave Alert as it was, and see if there's another half feat you could merge Observant with. Alert was a great feat that didn't have any issues. It was strong, but not so strong that you would never take something else.

    Arms Training:
    - You gain proficiency in light and medium armor, simple and martial weapons, and shields. If you are already proficient in light and medium armor, you instead gain proficiency in heavy armor.
    At first I thought this felt like too much, then I remembered that these were originally half feats. I think this actually works fine. In one fell swoop, you get basically all the armor and weapon proficiencies you'd need, at the cost of a feat. One thing I might change is to reword how you get heavy armor proficiency; I'd probably have it say something like, "if you are already proficiency in medium armor, or later gain proficiency in medium armor from another source...", as this way it no longer matters if you take this feat before or after getting medium armor elsewhere, e.g. by dipping into another class.

    Crossbow Expert:
    - You ignore the loading quality of ranged weapons
    - Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
    - You are able to use ranged weapons that are not two handed when Two Weapon Fighting
    Weapons are either one-handed or two-handed. I feel like it's less awkward to specify which ones you can use rather than which ones you can't use. I'd change it to say it works with one-handed ranged weapons; I think that would be functionally identical, but it just feels less awkward.

    Defensive Duelist:
    - When you are hit by an attack while wielding a weapon that is not heavy or two-handed, you can use your Reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against that attack, potentially causing it to miss.
    Same as above. I'm not aware of any one-handed weapons with the heavy property. You can probably just restrict it to one-handed weapons.

    Dual Wielder:
    - You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn.
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can make an attack with each weapon you are wielding against the same target (with the usual weapon and stat-to-damage restrictions).
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature cannot provide other creatures with advantage to melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn (eg Pack Tactics).
    First bullet point is great. Something to remember is that rogues will have access to the feat, but not the fighting style, so it generally works better to tailor the feat a bit more towards rogues, and the fighting style more towards fighters. Rogues have a lot they can use their bonus action on, so moving the BA attack to the Attack action is a huge bonus to them (and a decent bonus for most other builds, too).

    The last bullet point, though, I'm not so sure about. I might keep it similar to how it was, but you could even change it up a little. Maybe something like, "when you are wielding a weapon and not wielding a shield, you gain a +1 bonus to AC." This way, the benefit only applies while not wielding a shield, but doesn't actually require dual-wielding, and even works with ranged weapons. I feel like this is in a similar vein to Crossbow Expert affecting ranged spell attacks while in melee; just a nice benefit that broader variety of builds can use, even if they don't benefit from the bulk of the feat. A "something for everyone" type of benefit.

    Elemental Adept:
    - Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. When you deal damage of that type you can choose to apply or ignore damage resistance to that damage type to any creatures affected.
    ??? Did you nerf this? And you removed the benefit of being able to grant resistance to the targets? I get the feeling you copypasta'd this with the intention to edit it, and then forgot to actually change it.

    Great Fortitude:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Strength or Constitution saving throws
    - When subject to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw at the start or end of your turn, you can choose to make that saving throw at the start or end of your turn

    Iron Will:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Wisdom or Charisma saving throws
    - ???

    Lightning Reflexes:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Dexterity or Intelligence saving throws
    - You can make Opportunity attacks against creatures that teleport or that are forcibly moved
    Honestly, I think you should just merge all of these together. I think the second benefit of Great Fortitude is a nice, generally applicable ability, a good way to grant a minor benefit when making saving throws. The only reason to keep these separate is if you want people to be able to take more than one of these, getting proficiency in multiple saving throws. Which, I think there's a reason you couldn't take Resilient more than once.

    OAs against forcibly moved enemies opens up some potential abuse. Repelling Blast becomes that much stronger, and a shove from the barbarian can now grant the rogue another Sneak Attack (which will probably hurt more than an attack from the barbarian). Maybe it wouldn't be that bad, but I'd be cautious of this.

    I actually made my own Lightning Reflexes feat some time ago. It gave you a second reaction, allowed you to move up to 5 feet immediately before or after using a reaction, and allowed you to use a reaction to gain a +4 bonus on a failed DEX save (similar to War wizard's Arcane Deflection, but only for DEX saves). If I were to rewrite this, I'd probably keep it mostly the same, but add a clause stating you can't use more than one reaction per turn (so you can take two reactions, but they have to be on different turns).

    Great Weapon Master:
    - Once per turn, when you make an attack with a melee weapon wielded in both hands you can add your Proficiency bonus to the damage roll.
    - On your turn, when you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon wielded in both hands, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action
    Oddly enough, I like this. It's a lot tamer, but it's a straight damage boost. If you get multiple attacks, you only need to hit once to apply the bonus damage, so it makes your DPR slightly more consistent. I've looked at similar things using a genielock; Genie's Wrath also adds your prof. bonus to damage once per turn, and with four EB bolts you are almost certain to hit at least once. Aside from the higher odds of landing at least one attack, this also equally benefits builds regardless of how many attacks they get, so fighters get just as much out of it as Booming Blade clerics do.

    Mage Slayer:
    - You can make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that begins to cast a spell within your reach, potentially causing that creature to lose the spell if the attack hits and they fail a Concentration saving throw
    - You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects used by creatures within your reach
    This definitely feels like what someone would want out of a feat like this. I might reword it slightly; say that casting a spell within your reach provokes an opportunity attack, and if the attack hits, the caster has to make a concentration save or else they fail to cast the spell.

    Magical Mastery:
    - You learn one Warlock invocation that you meet the requirements for
    - You learn one Sorcerer Metamagic and gain 1 sorcery point, which is regained when you finish a long rest
    1 sorcery point doesn't feel like enough. Many of the metamagics require more than that. Hmm... Here's what I'd do: I'd make it two separate feats. Metamagic Adept gives you a metamagic and prof. bonus sorcery points. Eldritch Adept gives you an invocation and a 1st level spell slot that recharges on a short rest. That way, these feats are great both for sorcerers/warlocks as well as non-sorcerers/warlocks.

    Martial Adept:
    - You learn one fighting style from the Fighter list
    - You learn one Battlemaster Maneuver and gain one d6 Superiority die, which is regained when you finish a short or long rest
    Nice condensing. I did feel like a fighting style wasn't generally worth a feat, and ditto for the maneuver, so this is a nice upgrade that will make the feat more worthwhile.

    Polearm Master:
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    - Once per turn when you hit a creature with a reach weapon, you can reduce the speed of the target by 10 feet until the start of your next turn
    - Attacks you make with reach weapons ignore cover provided by creatures adjacent to you
    Interesting. Back-line poking. So you can have a tank without reach get up in the enemy's business, and then you can stand behind them and poke from a safe distance. I also see you merged this with Slasher (sort of). I'm honestly not sure what I think of this. This may require some playtesting to see how good it actually is; it could be one of those things that doesn't look like much on paper, but ends up completely broken if properly exploited. Or it might only be marginally useful, who knows.

    Ritual Caster:
    - Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag. You can cast the chosen spells as rituals using your choice of Int, Wis or Cha as casting stat
    - You can add other ritual spells to your repertoire. When you find such a spell, you can learn it if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up). Learning the spell destroys the source material
    - Casting a spell as a ritual only adds 1 minute to the casting time instead of 10, and you are able to cast rituals at one spell level higher than their base level (only Animal Messenger has an upcast, but it makes Dispelling tougher)
    Interesting, I assume the 1 minute ritual time would apply to ritual casting from your class? If so, this becomes a great feat for classes that already get ritual casting: not only can they get extra rituals, but they can cast them faster. Some spells were of limited use as rituals because the spell duration was rather short. E.g. Detect Magic only lasts for 10 minutes, so to keep it up constantly you have to start the ritual again as soon as it ends. Also, 10 minutes can be a long time, while 1 minute makes these essentially at-will outside of combat.

    Sharpshooter:
    - When making ranged attacks you treat 3/4 cover as 1/2 cover, and 1/2 cover as no cover
    - You double the short range of any ranged weapon attacks you make, and the range of any ranged spell attacks you make
    - Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a ranged attack, you can re-roll one of the attack’s damage dice, and you must use the new roll.
    This feels a lot weaker than vanilla Sharpshooter. Not only do you not ignore all cover, but you also don't get to maximize your range (only double the short range). And the damage bonus is also much weaker.

    The cover thing makes sense. Ignoring cover completely makes combat less interesting, IMO, so this way cover still matters somewhat. I would double the short and long range for weapons. Is it helpful? Not necessarily, since you generally don't want to be attacking with disadvantage, but it at least allows for those crazy sniper shots. I'd probably mirror GWM and just add prof. bonus to damage once per turn, or maybe do something a bit different but equally beneficial. Also note that originally Spell Sniper didn't give a damage bonus, so consider if a damage bonus should apply to spells or not.

    Shield Master: (this one is contentious)
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover to other creatures, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to effects that target an area (think the old Complete Warrior Divine Shield imagery)
    I did find it odd that the bonus to DEX saves only applies to single-target effects, but I can see that being justified as a balance consideration. Otherwise, I think I like the vanilla version better (shove and pseudo-Evasion). Though I will say that I find the concept of providing additional cover to allies to be intriguing; I think it would be a great class feature or good for a different feat. Or, if you're replacing the pseudo-Evasion effect with this, then maybe you could rework the pseudo-Evasion into its own feat.

    It's possible we might just not be able to agree on what this feat should do. It might make sense to allow multiple variations of given feats, so that if someone really wants the original instead of your rework, they still have access to it. That way you don't need to worry about having the "one true version" of a feat, and can have as many variants as you think are necessary.

    Tavern Brawler:
    - You gain proficiency with improvised weapons, and your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 for damage
    - You can grapple and shove creatures as if you were one size category larger
    - While you are grappling a creature you have advantage on attack rolls against the grappled creature
    Keep in mind that you can already grapple creatures one size larger than you. With this, you can Enlarge/Reduce yourself to become Large, allowing you to grapple Gargantuan creatures. Rune Knight doesn't get the ability to become Huge until 18th level (though Enlarge/Reduce stacks with Giant's Might, enable Huge size as early as 3rd level), and they are the only ones who get to grapple Gargantuan enemies, other than grapplers using Polymorph/Wild Shape/other shapeshifting abilities.

    Personally, I'd replace the "count as one size larger" with a BA grapple or shove. I think that would break a lot less things, and would be a very welcome addition for any grappler.

    War Caster:
    - You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.
    - When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a cantrip at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The cantrip must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
    Good to see you can no longer perform somatic components with your arms chopped off. You might consider expanding this to include any item, or at least to include spell foci (for spells without an M component). I might also reword it to specifically say that you can perform somatic components using a hand holding a weapon/shield/spell focus, since this doesn't really specify how you're performing the components, only that you can somehow do it while holding stuff. Otherwise, I think this is fine.

    Whew, hope that helps. If I skipped past a feat, it's probably because I thought it was fine or didn't have anything else to say about it that I haven't already said.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Excellent, this is really helping me narrow things down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I like that you're merging this with Observant, I think that makes sense. And I get why you had to remove some aspects of Alert to balance out the new additions. Unfortunately, I think you may have missed out on why people take Alert in the first place. The bonus to initiative is the main bonus, because acting first can have a huge impact on how the fight swings. This version essentially gives nothing to DEX builds, and only marginally buffs INT and WIS casters (heavy armor clerics probably get the most benefit out of this). Everyone else essentially gets nothing in terms of an initiative bonus. And as I mentioned above, removing advantage from unseen attackers was a nice benefit to have that could lead to some specific tactics when used as pseudo-blindsight.

    In the end, I'd leave Alert as it was, and see if there's another half feat you could merge Observant with. Alert was a great feat that didn't have any issues. It was strong, but not so strong that you would never take something else.
    Were people really taking Alert over Blind Fighting Style to do that? Always a risk by removing things entirely I suppose, no way to please everyone. Original Alert was a good feat and a strong contender to leave in the 'unchanged' pile.

    Very good point, I guess I was just really worried about stacking initiative boosts (Harengon, Gift of Alacrity, Advantage, etc). I do want it to be broadly applicable across the classes.

    So the question is, is +5 to passive Perception and Investigation worth roughly the same as denying advantage from not seeing an opponent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    At first I thought this felt like too much, then I remembered that these were originally half feats. I think this actually works fine. In one fell swoop, you get basically all the armor and weapon proficiencies you'd need, at the cost of a feat. One thing I might change is to reword how you get heavy armor proficiency; I'd probably have it say something like, "if you are already proficiency in medium armor, or later gain proficiency in medium armor from another source...", as this way it no longer matters if you take this feat before or after getting medium armor elsewhere, e.g. by dipping into another class.
    Good catch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Weapons are either one-handed or two-handed. I feel like it's less awkward to specify which ones you can use rather than which ones you can't use. I'd change it to say it works with one-handed ranged weapons; I think that would be functionally identical, but it just feels less awkward.

    Same as above. I'm not aware of any one-handed weapons with the heavy property. You can probably just restrict it to one-handed weapons.
    I was using the weapon trait/quality, as Two Handed is there next to Finesse, Light, Ammunition, etc but One-Handed is not. But yeah, as long as ambiguity is being removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    First bullet point is great. Something to remember is that rogues will have access to the feat, but not the fighting style, so it generally works better to tailor the feat a bit more towards rogues, and the fighting style more towards fighters. Rogues have a lot they can use their bonus action on, so moving the BA attack to the Attack action is a huge bonus to them (and a decent bonus for most other builds, too).

    The last bullet point, though, I'm not so sure about. I might keep it similar to how it was, but you could even change it up a little. Maybe something like, "when you are wielding a weapon and not wielding a shield, you gain a +1 bonus to AC." This way, the benefit only applies while not wielding a shield, but doesn't actually require dual-wielding, and even works with ranged weapons. I feel like this is in a similar vein to Crossbow Expert affecting ranged spell attacks while in melee; just a nice benefit that broader variety of builds can use, even if they don't benefit from the bulk of the feat. A "something for everyone" type of benefit.
    Funny, the +1 AC Dual Wielder from the PHB is exactly what I wanted to take out. Perhaps change it to when you attack a creature on your turn that creature cannot benefit from advantage on melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn? Serves the same purpose of 'fending off multiple people at once'

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    ??? Did you nerf this? And you removed the benefit of being able to grant resistance to the targets? I get the feeling you copypasta'd this with the intention to edit it, and then forgot to actually change it.
    Dropped the treating 1s and 2s as 3s, but the other two parts got reworded. Whenever you deal [element] damage, you can choose to add or ignore [element] resistance for each creature affected. Which also applies to things that aren't spells by the way, so it works for things like dragonborn, storm barbarians, sun/dragon monks, Fighters with Flaming swords, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Honestly, I think you should just merge all of these together. I think the second benefit of Great Fortitude is a nice, generally applicable ability, a good way to grant a minor benefit when making saving throws. The only reason to keep these separate is if you want people to be able to take more than one of these, getting proficiency in multiple saving throws. Which, I think there's a reason you couldn't take Resilient more than once.

    OAs against forcibly moved enemies opens up some potential abuse. Repelling Blast becomes that much stronger, and a shove from the barbarian can now grant the rogue another Sneak Attack (which will probably hurt more than an attack from the barbarian). Maybe it wouldn't be that bad, but I'd be cautious of this.

    I actually made my own Lightning Reflexes feat some time ago. It gave you a second reaction, allowed you to move up to 5 feet immediately before or after using a reaction, and allowed you to use a reaction to gain a +4 bonus on a failed DEX save (similar to War wizard's Arcane Deflection, but only for DEX saves). If I were to rewrite this, I'd probably keep it mostly the same, but add a clause stating you can't use more than one reaction per turn (so you can take two reactions, but they have to be on different turns).
    Well they were Resilient before being split, I don't mind people spending multiple feats to pick up multiple save profs.

    Yeah that's why I was careful not to repurpose the Crusher free movement and just cut it, and am unsure about how to handle the Telekinetic BA movement. It wouldn't work with Dissonant Whispers and the like though, technically.

    Perhaps a second Reaction is simpler and is indeed desirable, but I worry that is too strong messing with the action economy on top of giving you Dex saves (and compared to Great Fortitude's secondary benefit).

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    This definitely feels like what someone would want out of a feat like this. I might reword it slightly; say that casting a spell within your reach provokes an opportunity attack, and if the attack hits, the caster has to make a concentration save or else they fail to cast the spell.
    I specifically wanted to use the phrasing 'begins casting', and thus not imply 'completes casting', in order to counter any rules lawyers from (correctly) pointing out that in 5e Reactions occur after the trigger, unlike say 4e that distinguished between immediate-interrupts and reactions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    1 sorcery point doesn't feel like enough. Many of the metamagics require more than that. Hmm... Here's what I'd do: I'd make it two separate feats. Metamagic Adept gives you a metamagic and prof. bonus sorcery points. Eldritch Adept gives you an invocation and a 1st level spell slot that recharges on a short rest. That way, these feats are great both for sorcerers/warlocks as well as non-sorcerers/warlocks.
    At the risk of basically putting them back to what they were to begin with. I think 1/LR Subtle or Empower spell is a fine secondary benefit to Devil's Sight, two skill profs or one of a number of At-Will spells. Perhaps let is scale slightly at half-prof SP, so you get a second one at level 9 and a third at level 17

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Interesting. Back-line poking. So you can have a tank without reach get up in the enemy's business, and then you can stand behind them and poke from a safe distance. I also see you merged this with Slasher (sort of). I'm honestly not sure what I think of this. This may require some playtesting to see how good it actually is; it could be one of those things that doesn't look like much on paper, but ends up completely broken if properly exploited. Or it might only be marginally useful, who knows.
    Hasn't been playtested yet, but yes the intent is that this makes you much better at melee kiting (especially if you are also using my homebrew polearm fighting style that turns your reach into difficult terrain). If you're within the last 10' of someone's movement and you hit them with the Opp Attack you could even stop them from getting to you, then refresh the speed reduction on your turn before moving away again. Potentially a 5e version of the spiked chain BS if handled poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Interesting, I assume the 1 minute ritual time would apply to ritual casting from your class? If so, this becomes a great feat for classes that already get ritual casting: not only can they get extra rituals, but they can cast them faster. Some spells were of limited use as rituals because the spell duration was rather short. E.g. Detect Magic only lasts for 10 minutes, so to keep it up constantly you have to start the ritual again as soon as it ends. Also, 10 minutes can be a long time, while 1 minute makes these essentially at-will outside of combat.
    Yes, given how common it is for a party to have a member with Ritual casting granted by class I wanted this to be good even for them to pick up (less true for Tomelocks, but it does free up an invocation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    This feels a lot weaker than vanilla Sharpshooter. Not only do you not ignore all cover, but you also don't get to maximize your range (only double the short range). And the damage bonus is also much weaker.

    The cover thing makes sense. Ignoring cover completely makes combat less interesting, IMO, so this way cover still matters somewhat. I would double the short and long range for weapons. Is it helpful? Not necessarily, since you generally don't want to be attacking with disadvantage, but it at least allows for those crazy sniper shots. I'd probably mirror GWM and just add prof. bonus to damage once per turn, or maybe do something a bit different but equally beneficial. Also note that originally Spell Sniper didn't give a damage bonus, so consider if a damage bonus should apply to spells or not.
    I specifically wanted to avoid giving others the same raw damage boosts that the melee guys get (or specifically Great Weapon users ideally, as other styles try to cover other aspects than raw damage output). Feels a bit unfair that you can get all the same benefits without putting yourself in harm's way. Double the usual range is still pretty good considering the distances a lot of weapons and attack spells work at.

    Also fun fact, like Elemental Adept this works for casters as well as martials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I did find it odd that the bonus to DEX saves only applies to single-target effects, but I can see that being justified as a balance consideration. Otherwise, I think I like the vanilla version better (shove and pseudo-Evasion). Though I will say that I find the concept of providing additional cover to allies to be intriguing; I think it would be a great class feature or good for a different feat. Or, if you're replacing the pseudo-Evasion effect with this, then maybe you could rework the pseudo-Evasion into its own feat.

    It's possible we might just not be able to agree on what this feat should do. It might make sense to allow multiple variations of given feats, so that if someone really wants the original instead of your rework, they still have access to it. That way you don't need to worry about having the "one true version" of a feat, and can have as many variants as you think are necessary.
    Not going to lie, I sat thinking on this one for longer than I probably should have. I figured expanding the shield bonus to all Dex saves helps counteract the loss of the Evasion-lite, however I will just have to accept that there will be people that prefer the original. And that's fine, the beauty of homebrew is that it can be tailored to a specific group/table and it's even more optional than feats are!

    The 'take it for your allies' thing I saw come up in one of those 'why can't martials have nice things' thread and it just clicked with me that it's a massive, common trope that isn't represented in the rules anywhere (closest you might get is Protection fighting style but that doesn't apply to multiple creatures nor to AoEs). Just like shield bashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Keep in mind that you can already grapple creatures one size larger than you. With this, you can Enlarge/Reduce yourself to become Large, allowing you to grapple Gargantuan creatures. Rune Knight doesn't get the ability to become Huge until 18th level (though Enlarge/Reduce stacks with Giant's Might, enable Huge size as early as 3rd level), and they are the only ones who get to grapple Gargantuan enemies, other than grapplers using Polymorph/Wild Shape/other shapeshifting abilities.

    Personally, I'd replace the "count as one size larger" with a BA grapple or shove. I think that would break a lot less things, and would be a very welcome addition for any grappler.
    To me sounds just right, the kind of thing most characters specializing in Grappling should be able to do rather than just high level Rune Knights. And one of those unstated secondary objectives for myself was 'be way more judicious with feats giving out BAs, most characters have plenty of uses for them as it is'

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Good to see you can no longer perform somatic components with your arms chopped off. You might consider expanding this to include any item, or at least to include spell foci (for spells without an M component). I might also reword it to specifically say that you can perform somatic components using a hand holding a weapon/shield/spell focus, since this doesn't really specify how you're performing the components, only that you can somehow do it while holding stuff. Otherwise, I think this is fine.
    Oh yeah. I tend to use the term 'implement' even though that isn't a part of the 5e vernacular. But this was a straight copy-paste of the PHB feat with only 'spell' replaced with 'cantrip'.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Going to update the OP with the above adjustments, but wanted to get opinions on the 'I dont know' list I have:

    Actor: A half feat, and just feels like it's done so much better elsewhere. Hell even Xan's tool benefits (p81) outlines some stuff that edges in on it. Given that skilled exists I don't feel bad just culling it, but I can't help but feel like there ought to be some way to make it good like creating and donning them super fast and being able to see through other people's disguises and attempts to trick you (such as by feigning death, mimicking cries for help or turning into chests). But then again maybe that could be rolled into Dungeon Delver in some way.

    Chef: The same design space is taken up by Inspiring Leader and Xan's tool benefits (p81), honestly I think it could be culled entirely

    Dungeon Delver: I know I want to reduce the trap stuff to one bullet and introduce Darkvision as a second, but not sure what to use as the third to round it out. See Actor above, but I want to make sure it fits nicely.

    Keen Mind: Half feat and carries some pretty useless benefits to boot. I think some sort of downtime/training benefit would fit, but otherwise stumped

    Poisoner: Being chained to acquiring poison is a big drawback, plus the bonus action to apply still conflicts a lot. I was thinking just treating any weapon attack you make as being coated in basic poison as long as you have a Poisoner's Kit on you, plus some sort of benefit around the Poisoned condition (disadvantage to saves against getting it, always lasts 1 round longer than usual, etc)

    Skulker: Feels like its skirting the edges of being a good feat, but ways of enhancing stealth are already in place (bonus action hide, invisibility, big +X to Stealth, etc). Plus how stealth is handled varies from table to table.
    Telekinetic & Telepathic: Thinking merge into one 'Psi Adept' similar to Martial and Magic adept feats, have a few powers to choose from there you gain one and a small supply of Psi Dice which stacks with existing Psychic (sub)classes.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2020

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Spoiler: Alert & Arms Training
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Alert:
    - You gain a +5 bonus to initiative
    - You gain a +5 to your passive Perception and Investigation scores
    - Choose one:
    *You can’t be surprised while you are conscious
    *Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you

    Arms Training:
    - You gain proficiency in light and medium armor, simple and martial weapons, and shields.
    - If you are already proficient in light and medium armor or would later become proficient in light and medium by other means, you instead gain proficiency in heavy armor.

    I really like what you did with Alert/observant. Part of me wants to say that the last two bullets should be given rather than be choices but that's probably the greedy player part of me.
    On the opposite side of that coin, I'm not sure how I feel about Arms Training. It's probably fine but I might change it to increasing your armor proficiency by 1 level (none->light->medium & shields->heavy). As a DM I would be concerned about seeing a sorcerer go from 15 ac with a daily spell tax to 19 AC with a single feat without accounting for magic armor. I might be overthinking it but that's my concern.
    Spoiler: Crossbow Expert
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Crossbow Expert:
    - You ignore the loading quality of ranged weapons
    - Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
    - You are able to use one handed ranged weapons when Two Weapon Fighting

    Interestingly enough I started a thread a few days ago covering some proposed changes to ranged fighting. In it I suggested merging sharp shooter and crossbow expert for reasons different from this thread. anyway here's what I came up with.
    Bow Expert (formerly sharpshooter & crossbow expert)
    • Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
    • When you take the Attack action and attack with a shortbow, you can use a bonus action to make an attack with your shortbow.
    • Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.

    Spoiler: Reasoning for combination
    Show
    There were a couple parts of both sharpshooter and crossbow expert that bothered me, namely ignoring cover and being faster with a crossbow than a bow. With my other ranged fighting fixes, if you want to be a dangerous quick-shot you need to invest a tiny bit into strength.
    I considered removing the 3rd bullet and coming up with something new but I feel its much weaker than it was in the original sharpshooter because once you have to deal with cover that -5 to hit is a much bigger deal.

    I would also remove the "melee" requirement for the basic two-weapon fighting rules, allowing for the rapier/hand crossbow swashbucklery action but if a character wanted to go hard in that archetype they would either need a bandolier of loaded hand crossbows (a pretty cool mental image if you ask me) or spend the extra money to commission a repeating crossbow. You shouldn't be able to "fan the hammer" on a normal crossbow faster than Legolas can use a shortbow without magical/mechanical improvements to your weapon.

    Spoiler: Defensive Dualist & Dual Wielder
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Defensive Duelist:
    - When you are hit by an attack while wielding a one handed weapon, you can use your Reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against that attack, potentially causing it to miss.

    Dual Wielder:
    - You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn.
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can make an attack with each weapon you are wielding against the same target (with the usual weapon and stat-to-damage restrictions).
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature cannot benefit from Advantage on melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn (eg Pack Tactics).

    I might add another bullet to Defensive Duelist as it still feels a little weak. It makes sense for it to only apply to one attack so maybe something like this?
    -If the attack misses you can make an AoO against the attacker as a part of the same reaction.
    To me this would feel more Defensive Duelist rather than just Defensive duelist. It might go a little too well with your version of Dual Wielder though so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

    On that note, I love what you've done with Dual Wielder. It really hits the fantasy of dual wielding and just feels right.
    Spoiler: Elemental Adept, Great Fortitude, & Great Weapon Master
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Elemental Adept:
    - Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can ignore resistance to that damage type on any targets of your choice
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can apply resistance to that damage type to any targets of your choice

    Great Fortitude:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Strength or Constitution saving throws
    - When subject to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw at the start or end of your turn, you can choose to make that saving throw at the start or end of your turn

    Great Weapon Master:
    - Once per turn, when you make an attack with a melee weapon wielded in both hands you can add your Proficiency bonus to the damage roll.
    - On your turn, when you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon wielded in both hands, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action

    Elemental Adept looks good, not much else to say there.
    Great Fortitude has a wonderfully understated power. I almost skimmed past it but oh boy! I don't think it's over powered by a long shot but I can imagine this being a go-to for a lot of builds.
    Great Weapon Master is also a little more subtle than the original but it's a solid boost and will pair nicely with abilities that give more frequent AoOs.

    Spoiler: Healer, Iron Will, & Lightning Reflexes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Healer:
    - When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point.
    - As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature, making a Medicine check and restoring hit points to it equal to the result. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.

    Iron Will:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Wisdom or Charisma saving throws
    - ???

    Lightning Reflexes:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Dexterity or Intelligence saving throws
    - After you take a Reaction, you can choose to take another on a different turn before the start of your next turn. Once you take your second reaction you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Healer is solid and would be a great pick for low level adventures. If you wanted to boost it a little for the mid/late game you could make the healing from the second bullet be equal to the Medicine check + your level.
    Iron Will could give advantage on saving throws against fear or possession effects(maybe fear and charm?)?
    Lightning Reflexes looks like another beast of a feat but the second bullet is making up for a +1 stat boost and is only 1/SR so I wouldn't say its over powered but it is absolutely powered.
    Spoiler: Mage Slayer, Magic Adept, & Magical Mastery
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Mage Slayer:
    - You can make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that begins to cast a spell within your reach, potentially causing that creature to lose the spell if the attack hits and they fail a Concentration saving throw
    - You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects used by creatures within your reach

    Magic Adept:
    - You learn the one Cantrip, one 1st-level and one 2nd-level spell of your choice. These spells must be either all from the same class list or all of the same spell school.
    - You can the 1st-level and 2nd-level spells once each without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast it in this way again until you finish a long rest.
    - You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is your choice of Int, Wis or Cha.

    Magical Mastery:
    - You learn one Warlock invocation that you meet the requirements for
    - You learn one Sorcerer Metamagic and gain Sorcery points equal to half your Proficiency bonus, which are regained when you finish a long rest

    Mage slayer is *chef's kiss* knocking a spell out of a wizard's hand is what it should have done to begin with.
    Magic adept looks like a blast. I would love to get Guidance, Bane/Bless, and Spiritual Weapon on pretty much any non Cleric.
    Magical Mastery also looks really fun. Prepare for shenanigans. I can see an Arcane Trickster taking Mask of Many Faces and Subtle Spell for some excellent espionage.
    Spoiler: Martial Adept, Mobile, & Polearm Master
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Martial Adept:
    - You learn one fighting style from the Fighter list
    - You learn one Battlemaster Maneuver and gain one d6 Superiority die, which is regained when you finish a short or long rest

    Mobile:
    - You gain your choice of +10 feet to your movement speed, a Climb speed equal to your movement or a Swim speed equal to your movement
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
    - Standing from prone only costs you 5 feet of movement, and you can make a running jump without a running start

    Polearm Master:
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    - Once per turn when you hit a creature with a reach weapon, you can reduce the speed of the target by 10 feet until the start of your next turn
    - Attacks you make with reach weapons ignore cover provided by creatures adjacent to you

    All 3 of these look solid and worth taking. Did you mean for Polearm Master to work with whips? Because I love the synergy.
    Spoiler: Ritual Caster
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Ritual Caster:
    - Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag. You can cast the chosen spells as rituals using your choice of Int, Wis or Cha as casting stat
    - You can add other ritual spells to your repertoire. When you find such a spell, you can learn it if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up). Learning the spell destroys the source material
    - Casting a spell as a ritual only adds 1 minute to the casting time instead of 10, and you are able to cast rituals at one spell level higher than their base level (only Animal Messenger has an upcast, but it makes Dispelling tougher)

    Looks good and should add a bit of versatility to any character.
    Spoiler: Savage Attacker, Sharpshooter, Shield Master
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Savage Attacker:
    - When you use your action to Dash you can make one melee weapon attack or shove attempt at the end of your movement. You cannot move again on your turn after you make this attack or shove.
    - When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, the next attack roll made against the target before the end of your next turn has advantage
    - When you have advantage on a melee weapon attack and both rolls would hit you can roll one additional weapon damage die

    Sharpshooter:
    - When making ranged attacks you treat 3/4 cover as 1/2 cover, and 1/2 cover as no cover
    - You double the short range of any ranged weapon attacks you make, and the range of any ranged spell attacks you make
    - Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a ranged attack, you can re-roll one of the attack’s damage dice, and you must use the new roll.

    Shield Master: (this one is contentious)
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover to other creatures, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to effects that target an area (think the old Complete Warrior Divine Shield imagery)

    Savage Attacker looks like it would be good on any martial but especially a rogue, bonus action dash, shove prone, action attack w/sneak attack.
    I already went over my issues with sharpshooter in my CBE response but at least cover still does something.
    I liked the BA shove from the original Shield Master but I agree with your other changes to it. I made an additional feat to compliment the shield master.
    Spoiler: Active Shielding
    Show

    Active Shielding
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with shields
    Your practice with a shield has given you more options in combat. You now gain the following:
    -Increase your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution score by 1 to a maximum of 20. (Its probably too strong for a half feat but one of my player already took it)
    -While you are wielding a shield you can "Brace Yourself" as a bonus action, gaining the effects of the Dodge action.
    -Your shield has become an extension of your body. You consider shields to be light weapons which deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage. (this synergizes with two weapon fighting)
    -When you take the Attack action while wearing a shield you can use a bonus action to make an attack with your shield.(I've considered cutting this part and leaving it with two weapon fighting rules for BA attacks with it)

    I know you're trimming the list down but it felt relevant.
    On second thought. Your wording would allow dual wielding with a shield it so you could still get the bonus shove or an additional attack.
    Spoiler: Skilled, Tavern Brawler, Tough, War Caster
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Skilled:
    - You gain proficiency in two skills or tools of your choice
    - You gain expertise in one skill or tool that you are proficient in
    - You learn one language of your choice

    Tavern Brawler:
    - You gain proficiency with improvised weapons, and your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 for damage
    - You can grapple and shove creatures as if you were one size category larger
    - While you are grappling a creature you have advantage on attack rolls against the grappled creature

    Tough:
    - You gain extra HP equal to twice your proficiency bonus (this increases when your Prof bonus does)
    - Whenever another creature causes you to regain hit points, you can use your Reaction to recover further. Roll (and expend) one Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)
    - When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum result is equal to your Constitution modifier (if you have a 20 Con you can actually heal 5 from a d4, but no published classes have a d4 Hit Die)

    War Caster:
    - You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons, implements or a shield in one or both hands.
    - When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a cantrip at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The cantrip must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.

    Skilled is good, I haven't not taken skill expert on a character I've played post Tasha's and the flexibility with tools makes it even better.
    Tavern Brawler looks strong enough and considering your goal to consolidate it works but a part of me feels like both it and Grappler could have been improved upon in distinct ways.
    Tough looks like something that would benefit pretty much every character but especial martials so yet again, Good.
    I'm not sure that Warcaster needed the nerf but it's still playable. It just went from the upper end of not busted to the lower end.

    Overall I'd say that congratulations are in order. My few disagreements are nitpicks and there was a lot to pick over.
    I am wondering if any of these could be taken more than once? Magic Adept and Skilled seem like feats that SAD characters could want to double dip on and considering that Magic Adept is consolidating a few pretty good feats it might make sense.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Saelethil View Post
    Overall I'd say that congratulations are in order. My few disagreements are nitpicks and there was a lot to pick over.

    I am wondering if any of these could be taken more than once?
    Much appreciated, makes for a lovely end to the week.

    I don't see why not, at least for Elemental Adept, Magic Adept, Magical Mastery, Martial Adept and Skilled. The rest don't really give you anything a second time around.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Feats! They replace your ASI and often most of your racial features so they're in hot competition for your character building resources. You can only get a max of 6-8 but more realistically only 2-3 over the course of your character's lifespan. There are some 75 to choose from though, and as time has progressed it has become apparent that some are lacking, others poorly worded and a few broken entirely. So lets see what we can do about that!

    Okay so gathering thoughts after feedback and some work in other threads:

    Overall goals: Remove half feats, consolidate bloat, reduce bonus action clutter, attempt to balance feats better against one another
    I think balancing feats against one another is the wrong balance point to be aiming at.

    The two key balance points of feats are:
    1. At level 4, do I get a feat, or do I get a +1 to attacks/damage/DCs and maybe AC and initiative?
    2. At level 1, do I play a vhuman or not?

    Most 5e play is from level 1-10. The above two questions handle most PCs from level 1-7 (except fighters).

    A feat whose primary purpose is to increase damage in combat for a weapon user that is worse at it than +1 to hit and damage in most circumstances is a garbage-tier feat; a trap. A feat which well outperforms in most circumstances a +2 in strength or dexterity on a primary weapon user is too strong.

    Then there is number 3.

    3. A feat is a full class feature for a level of many classes

    So it should be comparable to a full level of class features. If an ASI/feat is a disappointing level, or something you really really optimize for, in both cases feats are too strong/weak.

    Now, not all feats can be looked this way. So I'll focus on those.

    Arms Training:
    - You gain proficiency in light and medium armor, simple and martial weapons, and shields.
    - If you are already proficient in light and medium armor or would later become proficient in light and medium by other means, you instead gain proficiency in heavy armor.
    If you take a 1 level dip in Cleric with 13 wis, you can go from no armor proficiency to heavy and shield, plus other stuff. Without that subclass "exploit", a single level dip gets you this level of armor proficiency and other features as well.

    So this falls behind #3; this is a poor set of features to get as the only stuff you get in a level in a class.

    Crossbow Expert:
    - You ignore the loading quality of ranged weapons
    - Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
    - You are able to use one handed ranged weapons when Two Weapon Fighting
    Ignoring the loading quality of ranged weapons lets you upgrade from a longbow to a heavy xbow -- lose some range, get +1 damage per hit (and another +1 on a crit).

    The 5' range thing is interesting.

    One handed ranged weapons while TWF is a trap unless you errata it; the ammunition property means you still need to load the thing, which requires a free other hand.

    We can compare pre-nerf this to +2 dex.
    18 dex with a longbow, 2 attacks: 17 damage, +7 to hit, 9 crit
    16 dex with hand xbow, 3 attacks: 19.5 damage, +6 to hit, 10.5 crit

    Against 18 AC: LB: 8.95 DPR, HXB: 9.3
    Each point less AC: LB: 0.85, HXB: 0.975
    Crossover: 15.2 AC (lower AC, XBE+HXB does more damage, higher LB does)

    So ignoring the other properties of XBE, the pure damage of the baseline version is similar to +2 dex.

    This version, I'm honestly not sure how to model it, because the extra attack is gone. LB vs heavy crossbow:
    17 damage, +7 to hit, 9 crit
    17 damage, +6 to hit, 11 crit
    the heavy crossbow looks like garbage; -1 to hit for +2 crit damage is not a good trade.

    Dual Wielder:
    - You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn.
    - While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can make an attack with each weapon you are wielding against the same target (with the usual weapon and stat-to-damage restrictions).
    - When you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature cannot benefit from Advantage on melee attacks against you until the start of your next turn (eg Pack Tactics).
    Very awkardly worded.

    OAs are very situational and DM-dependent.

    Basically this removes the bonus action DW tax. Let's compare a fighter with TWF style and this feat to a GWF fighter with nothing at level 6 and 11, and a gloomstalker first round attack with this feat two a great weapon gloomstalker.

    F6G: 4d6+10 (26.7 after style)
    F6T: 3d6+12 (22.5)
    F11G: 6d6+15 (40 after style)
    F11T: 4d6+20 (34)
    G5G: 6d6+12 (33, no style)
    G5T: 4d6+12 (26)

    Without the last 2 points, with this feat two weapon fighting is still a trap (at least on non-rogues). And the last two points look like flavour to me. So not good enough.

    Elemental Adept:
    - Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can ignore resistance to that damage type on any targets of your choice
    - When you deal damage of the chosen type you can apply resistance to that damage type to any targets of your choice
    Not bad. I personally prefer more flavour in my feats.

    Great Fortitude:
    - You gain proficiency in your choice of Strength or Constitution saving throws
    - When subject to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw at the start or end of your turn, you can choose to make that saving throw at the start or end of your turn
    Very 4e inspired.

    In 4e, the version was "you can make a saving throw, and choose to ignore the consequences, at the start of your turn".

    This prevents things like petrification from progressing faster on people with such a feat.

    A second problem is that this feat is worse for fighters, who already have proficiency in both. I have noticed that making good saves even better is not a problem in a game like D&D; going from ok to good, or good to unbeatable, doesn't cause much balance issues.

    And because Strength and Constitution are a pair of important and less important saves, I'd suggest:
    1. You get proficiency in both.
    2. If you have proficiency in either, they upgrade to expertise (doulbe proficiency).

    Great Weapon Master:
    - Once per turn, when you make an attack with a melee weapon wielded in both hands you can add your Proficiency bonus to the damage roll.
    - On your turn, when you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon wielded in both hands, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action
    At level 4 this is +3 damage if you hit per turn. Against +1 to hit on all attacks and +1 to damage on all hits.

    The second feature doesn't happen often enough that I consider it mostly a ribbon.

    So 4d6+8 at +7 to hit vs 4d6+6 at +6 to hit, and +3 "smite" damage. If we go for a 2/3 hit chance baseline and give 5% for the extra accuracy we get:
    14.7 + 1.1 for accuracy = 15.8
    vs
    13.3 + 3 smite = 16.3
    so this isn't far off at level 4.

    Mage Slayer:
    - You can make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that begins to cast a spell within your reach, potentially causing that creature to lose the spell if the attack hits and they fail a Concentration saving throw
    - You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects used by creatures within your reach
    Does 1 apply if the spell isn't a concentration spell? If you want to do that, you have to change this.

    Also, bad guys should just walk away. The OA goes off, but it doesn't disrupt anything, and you no longer have advantage on saves. Needs rewriting.

    Magic Adept:
    - You learn the one Cantrip, one 1st-level and one 2nd-level spell of your choice. These spells must be either all from the same class list or all of the same spell school.
    - You can the 1st-level and 2nd-level spells once each without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast it in this way again until you finish a long rest.
    - You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is your choice of Int, Wis or Cha.
    A 2nd level spell 1/long rest at level 1 seems a bit much (vhuman).

    Magical Mastery:
    - You learn one Warlock invocation that you meet the requirements for
    - You learn one Sorcerer Metamagic and gain Sorcery points equal to half your Proficiency bonus, which are regained when you finish a long rest
    Both? Interesting.

    Martial Adept:
    - You learn one fighting style from the Fighter list
    - You learn one Battlemaster Maneuver and gain one d6 Superiority die, which is regained when you finish a short or long rest
    I'd make the Superiority die should always be the same size as other ones you have if you have better.

    Polearm Master:
    - While you are wielding a reach weapon, other creatures provoke an Opportunity Attack from you when they enter your reach
    - Once per turn when you hit a creature with a reach weapon, you can reduce the speed of the target by 10 feet until the start of your next turn
    - Attacks you make with reach weapons ignore cover provided by creatures adjacent to you
    The OA is the only source of damage here really. The last point is a ribbon. The middle point could be strong, but mostly it is weaker than Sentinal.

    The first point still stack with Sentinal, which makes this exploitive more than good if you get the difference.

    This discourages you from approaching foes, and discourages foes from approaching you. I could see the first point being used in 1/4 or so of fights against a given monster; if another PC engages first, you lose it, or if you go before they do.

    Ritual Caster:
    - Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag. You can cast the chosen spells as rituals using your choice of Int, Wis or Cha as casting stat
    - You can add other ritual spells to your repertoire. When you find such a spell, you can learn it if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up). Learning the spell destroys the source material
    - Casting a spell as a ritual only adds 1 minute to the casting time instead of 10, and you are able to cast rituals at one spell level higher than their base level (only Animal Messenger has an upcast, but it makes Dispelling tougher)
    The one minute thing is neat.

    Savage Attacker:
    - When you use your action to Dash you can make one melee weapon attack or shove attempt at the end of your movement. You cannot move again on your turn after you make this attack or shove.
    - When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, the next attack roll made against the target before the end of your next turn has advantage
    - When you have advantage on a melee weapon attack and both rolls would hit you can roll one additional weapon damage die
    The one attack on Dash doesn't scale that well, especially on fighters.

    Sharpshooter:
    - When making ranged attacks you treat 3/4 cover as 1/2 cover, and 1/2 cover as no cover
    - You double the short range of any ranged weapon attacks you make, and the range of any ranged spell attacks you make
    - Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a ranged attack, you can re-roll one of the attack’s damage dice, and you must use the new roll.
    I'd consider this a bad feat. Reroll one die is like +1 damage give or take.

    The range boost is ok sometimes, and the coverbypassing, but you'd be better off with a constant +1 attack and +1 damage in 9/10 cases.

    Shield Master: (this one is contentious)
    - When holding a shield you can attack with it as if it were a light weapon that deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit
    - If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make
    - When holding a shield you provide 3/4 cover instead of 1/2 cover to other creatures, which extends out to a 15' cone directly behind you when subject to effects that target an area (think the old Complete Warrior Divine Shield imagery)
    Note that 1 could make Duelist not work with a shield.

    I'd propose:
    * Bonus action shove that deals 1d4+strength damage even if the target is too large
    * Expend a reaction to destroy your shield and get resistance to one source of damage. If the shield is magical, the shield instead stops granting its bonus to AC until you spend an action.

    Tough:
    - You gain extra HP equal to twice your proficiency bonus (this increases when your Prof bonus does)
    - Whenever another creature causes you to regain hit points, you can use your Reaction to recover further. Roll (and expend) one Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1)
    - When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum result is equal to your Constitution modifier (if you have a 20 Con you can actually heal 5 from a d4, but no published classes have a d4 Hit Die)
    I like this.

    War Caster:
    - You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
    - You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons, implements or a shield in one or both hands.
    - When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a cantrip at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The cantrip must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
    Meh, get rid of banishment/bigby's OAs. Why?

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    1. At level 4, do I get a feat, or do I get a +1 to attacks/damage/DCs and maybe AC and initiative?
    2. At level 1, do I play a vhuman or not?
    3. A feat is a full class feature for a level of many classes
    Agreed (on the broad strokes). An ASI is roughly worth +1 to attack/DC/damage, a save, one or more skills and/or HP/AC/Initiative. One of the big reasons I wanted to remove half-feats is that you can functionally get the best of both worlds, especially for evening out that first 13, 15 or 17.

    However, you can max out your stat.

    I would say 3 should be equal to one (solid, non-ribbon) feature rather than a whole level of class features. A lot of the time a class will have other things going on even with a single feature (casting progression, ki/sorcery points, rage/monk die/inspiration die increase, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    If you take a 1 level dip in Cleric with 13 wis, you can go from no armor proficiency to heavy and shield, plus other stuff. Without that subclass "exploit", a single level dip gets you this level of armor proficiency and other features as well.

    So this falls behind #3; this is a poor set of features to get as the only stuff you get in a level in a class.
    At the cost of a level, which delays other features. As a standalone feature i'd consider medium armor + shields + weapons a pretty good deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    One handed ranged weapons while TWF is a trap unless you errata it; the ammunition property means you still need to load the thing, which requires a free other hand.
    Ah crap you're right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Very awkardly worded.

    OAs are very situational and DM-dependent.

    Basically this removes the bonus action DW tax. Let's compare a fighter -snip-
    Happy to hear suggestions on wording, but I've definitely run the numbers on the first point. Removing the BA tax is the primary benefit, it allows the barbarian to rage and attack turn 1, Ranger to Hunters Mark and attack, Rogues to Cunning Action and attack, Fighters to Second Wind or Rune or Echo or Fighting Spirit and attack.
    Second but still significant is denying advantage against you. It's not a straight +1 AC but denying advantage as long as you have attacked (not hit) is pretty good against anything using features or tactics that generate it without going to the effort of imposing disadvantage to counteract it.
    The ribbon-esque is the double-OA, standard OAs are dependent on the dm/table but there are ways to get yourself more of them by features and other feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Not bad. I personally prefer more flavour in my feats.
    Yeah still looking around for something ribbon-ish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    A second problem is that this feat is worse for fighters, who already have proficiency in both. I have noticed that making good saves even better is not a problem in a game like D&D; going from ok to good, or good to unbeatable, doesn't cause much balance issues.

    And because Strength and Constitution are a pair of important and less important saves, I'd suggest:
    1. You get proficiency in both.
    2. If you have proficiency in either, they upgrade to expertise (doulbe proficiency).
    Good point. Expertise on saves is an interesting thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Does 1 apply if the spell isn't a concentration spell? If you want to do that, you have to change this.

    Also, bad guys should just walk away. The OA goes off, but it doesn't disrupt anything, and you no longer have advantage on saves. Needs rewriting.
    Yes, again happy to hear rewording that makes that clearer.

    So they take an OA either way. Didn't you just say OAs are very situational and DM-dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    A 2nd level spell 1/long rest at level 1 seems a bit much (vhuman).
    It was already the case for Shadow/Fey Touched plus racial casting feats (fey teleportation, wood elf/drow/svirfneblin magic) if you're using Tasha's custom with a permissive DM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    I'd make the Superiority die should always be the same size as other ones you have if you have better.
    Good catch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    The OA is the only source of damage here really. The last point is a ribbon. The middle point could be strong, but mostly it is weaker than Sentinal.

    The first point still stack with Sentinal, which makes this exploitive more than good if you get the difference.

    This discourages you from approaching foes, and discourages foes from approaching you. I could see the first point being used in 1/4 or so of fights against a given monster; if another PC engages first, you lose it, or if you go before they do.
    Yes I really wanted to get rid of the BA attack (much like XBE), but struggled to find something to replace it with that didn't directly compete with other things (Sentinel).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    The one attack on Dash doesn't scale that well, especially on fighters.
    Try it with bonus action dash (Orc, Monk, Rogue, Haste, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    I'd consider this a bad feat. Reroll one die is like +1 damage give or take.

    The range boost is ok sometimes, and the coverbypassing, but you'd be better off with a constant +1 attack and +1 damage in 9/10 cases.
    Downgrading cover is worth +2 or +3 to hit, and your allies between you and your target provide cover. More situational than straight +1 to hit and damage, but this stacks with the fighting style and those Dex boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Note that 1 could make Duelist not work with a shield.

    I'd propose:
    * Bonus action shove that deals 1d4+strength damage even if the target is too large
    * Expend a reaction to destroy your shield and get resistance to one source of damage. If the shield is magical, the shield instead stops granting its bonus to AC until you spend an action.
    Yep, but would enable TWF style with a shield instead if you chose to use it as such while still letting you shove with your BA if that's what you want.

    I would hate carrying around dozens of shields, would just put back the old reaction from PHB instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Meh, get rid of banishment/bigby's OAs. Why?
    Because you already get advantage on concentration and the ability to hold something and cast. The third bullet was never the primary function of the feat, just a way for a caster's OA to be more than a joke.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Agreed (on the broad strokes). An ASI is roughly worth +1 to attack/DC/damage, a save, one or more skills and/or HP/AC/Initiative. One of the big reasons I wanted to remove half-feats is that you can functionally get the best of both worlds, especially for evening out that first 13, 15 or 17.

    However, you can max out your stat.
    If your feats are only worth taking at level 12, they are traps. Plus the back 10 for non casters already sucked, why make them worse?

    I would say 3 should be equal to one (solid, non-ribbon) feature rather than a whole level of class features. A lot of the time a class will have other things going on even with a single feature (casting progression, ki/sorcery points, rage/monk die/inspiration die increase, etc).
    No, many classes get only an ASI. Bard 17, Paladin 4, etc.

    At level 4 it is really common.

    In MC builds, the crapitude of feats in general is free in how many builds stop with a 3 level dip. The level 4 ASI is considered meh.

    At the cost of a level, which delays other features. As a standalone feature i'd consider medium armor + shields + weapons a pretty good deal.
    It isn't a great feature. Not a horrible one. Just a bit sub-par.

    Within rounding error I guess.
    Happy to hear suggestions on wording, but I've definitely run the numbers on the first point. Removing the BA tax is the primary benefit, it allows the barbarian to rage and attack turn 1, Ranger to Hunters Mark and attack, Rogues to Cunning Action and attack, Fighters to Second Wind or Rune or Echo or Fighting Spirit and attack.
    Yes, it enables a lot of BA stuff. But TWF was poor even if you removed BA in most of those builds, this makes it poor with a feat tax.
    Second but still significant is denying advantage against you. It's not a straight +1 AC but denying advantage as long as you have attacked (not hit) is pretty good against anything using features or tactics that generate it without going to the effort of imposing disadvantage to counteract it.
    Defensive abilities are always less useful than offensive, because offensive are triggered by the player, so the player can force the situation.

    Defensive are reactive. If nobody tries to get advantage on you, this don't work.

    An example where this works is reckless attack; now a barbarian can grant advantage then take it away. There sre few if any other equivalents; a PC that fights prone?


    Yeah still looking around for something ribbon-ish.
    I wrote per-element feats with flsvour. The goal was "psrtial negation of resistance/immunity"; I did it mostly by letting the player split damage types, then hung a story on it. Fire as "hellfire blood", and mixed necrotic with fire damage. Thrn I added some mechanics based off the story.

    The "pick an element" is bland.
    Yes, again happy to hear rewording that makes that clearer.

    So they take an OA either way. Didn't you just say OAs are very situational and DM-dependent?
    The problem is the "optimal" strategy for the foe negates half the feat; they take an OA if they walk away or not; if they don't walk aeay they grant save advantage. So... the foe ealks away, and save advantage does nothing. And spell disruption does nothing. So 80% of the feat's wording covers things that only happen if the DM plays the bad guy with poor tactics.

    I'd hook advantage on saves to damaging the caster. And maybe even concentration to damage on that turn, even before casting.

    [Wuote]It was already the case for Shadow/Fey Touched plus racial casting feats (fey teleportation, wood elf/drow/svirfneblin magic) if you're using Tasha's custom with a permissive DM.[/quote]
    But, pick any spell? Seems a lot looser. "Open a book and pick snything" is stronger than "3 choices" by far.

    A 30' teleport is good at level 1 and level 20. Scorching ray breaks level 1 encounters and is useless at 20.

    Try it with bonus action dash (Orc, Monk, Rogue, Haste, etc)
    "As an action" usually rules out BAs.

    Downgrading cover is worth +2 or +3 to hit, and your allies between you and your target provide cover. More situational than straight +1 to hit and damage, but this stacks with the fighting style and those Dex boosts.
    Yes, but avoiding cover from that is usually not that hard. Unless you are doing "hold dungeon door" all the time.

    Dex boosts are 4/8, so this feat looks lime "better than nothing" at level 12? Meh, just toss it.

    Yep, but would enable TWF style with a shield instead if you chose to use it as such while still letting you shove with your BA if that's what you want.
    I don't think TWF allows a shove.
    I would hate carrying around dozens of shields, would just put back the old reaction from PHB instead.
    Throw in repair rules. Equipping a new shield is a BA and an Action, something expensive in combat.

    Because you already get advantage on concentration and the ability to hold something and cast. The third bullet was never the primary function of the feat, just a way for a caster's OA to be more than a joke.
    Sure.

    But holding something, most of the gishes have a feature that 75% covers it. And the rare spell OAs are just fun.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    If your feats are only worth taking at level 12, they are traps. Plus the back 10 for non casters already sucked, why make them worse?
    How do you figure? If a feat isn't quite as good as getting your primary stat to 20 but better than getting a secondary stat to 20, is that a trap? If a feat is better than +2 to your primary stat that would make it a must-get, but ideally I suppose it should be a tough decision that could go either way.
    And yes martials absolutely tend to suffer in Tiers 3 and 4, but that isn't the fault of Feats and shouldn't be patched by Feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    No, many classes get only an ASI. Bard 17, Paladin 4, etc.
    At level 4 it is really common.
    In MC builds, the crapitude of feats in general is free in how many builds stop with a 3 level dip. The level 4 ASI is considered meh.
    You're right. I guess what I'm trying to say is that any given ASI should be *a* reason to take a level, aiming for it to be *the* reason to take a level would be overshooting the mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Yes, it enables a lot of BA stuff. But TWF was poor even if you removed BA in most of those builds, this makes it poor with a feat tax.
    D'oh, I just noticed I completely missed a bullet.
    - When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack. (exactly like the style, because I use the Style to allow non-light weapons from the original Dual Wielder feat)

    TWF itself isn't bad, you can get an extra attack with no investment. There is the BA cost, light weapon limitation and no-stat drawback, but it's available to anyone at any level. The problem with TWF arises when A) there is competition for that Bonus Action, B) making that investment (style and feat) gives results that primarily remove the drawbacks rather than improve TWF and C) Placing those same investments in other styles can also give a bonus action plus other benefits to boot, compounding A and B.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Defensive abilities are always less useful than offensive, because offensive are triggered by the player, so the player can force the situation.

    Defensive are reactive. If nobody tries to get advantage on you, this don't work.

    An example where this works is reckless attack; now a barbarian can grant advantage then take it away. There sre few if any other equivalents; a PC that fights prone?
    Yes, unknowns are difficult variables to account for. But that is not the same as saying they don't exist and/or aren't worthwhile. Advantage is a commonly used mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    I wrote per-element feats with flsvour. The goal was "psrtial negation of resistance/immunity"; I did it mostly by letting the player split damage types, then hung a story on it. Fire as "hellfire blood", and mixed necrotic with fire damage. Thrn I added some mechanics based off the story.

    The "pick an element" is bland.
    Great! Got a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    I'd hook advantage on saves to damaging the caster. And maybe even concentration to damage on that turn, even before casting.
    That's a good thought, might add that in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    A 30' teleport is good at level 1 and level 20. Scorching ray breaks level 1 encounters and is useless at 20.
    True, however i'd rather avoid making that decision on behalf of the player/DM. A single casting of a 2nd level spell might get you through an encounter, but you only get one and you took a feat to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    "As an action" usually rules out BAs.
    Very true, i'll reword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Yes, but avoiding cover from that is usually not that hard. Unless you are doing "hold dungeon door" all the time.

    Dex boosts are 4/8, so this feat looks lime "better than nothing" at level 12? Meh, just toss it.
    So without just adding more damage output what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    I don't think TWF allows a shove.
    Touche, I'll adjust to specify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    But holding something, most of the gishes have a feature that 75% covers it. And the rare spell OAs are just fun.
    Most? It might be ignored or overlooked at many if not most tables, but most casters don't get the ability to cast without a free hand.
    And I'd rather cut that avenue from casters, if their OAs can suddenly accomplish far more in terms of both damage and control as a tertiary benefit compared to something like Sentinel. It doesn't sound intended nor fair.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    How do you figure? If a feat isn't quite as good as getting your primary stat to 20 but better than getting a secondary stat to 20, is that a trap? If a feat is better than +2 to your primary stat that would make it a must-get, but ideally I suppose it should be a tough decision that could go either way.
    And yes martials absolutely tend to suffer in Tiers 3 and 4, but that isn't the fault of Feats and shouldn't be patched by Feats.
    If feats suck compared to attribute bumps, then
    1) Taking them at low levels as a non-vhuman is a trap.
    2) They are a pile of content that allows character customization ... that only comes online in T3. Come on.
    3) Most of the game is almost entirely feat-free.
    4) Multiclassing to avoid feats becomes optimal, pure classes get "you get a feat" dead levels in T3 which are worse than the ASIs in T1/T2 (which went for attribute bumps).

    You're right. I guess what I'm trying to say is that any given ASI should be *a* reason to take a level, aiming for it to be *the* reason to take a level would be overshooting the mark.
    To get "extra" ASIs via charop, you have to spend 4 levels in a MC. It is hard to get an ASI. ASI levels being a touch above par doesn't lead to easy optimization.

    D'oh, I just noticed I completely missed a bullet.
    - When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack. (exactly like the style, because I use the Style to allow non-light weapons from the original Dual Wielder feat)
    That is a big change.
    Yes, unknowns are difficult variables to account for. But that is not the same as saying they don't exist and/or aren't worthwhile. Advantage is a commonly used mechanic.
    Sure. As is fire damage.

    "I do +50% damage with fire" is way better than "I have fire resistance", because the first option you can make your character do fire damage, while the second you only get to use when the situation pushes it onto you.

    Even though in 1:1 fight, +50% damage is not as good as -50% damage, as -50% damage makes you twice as tough, while +50% damage makes you 1.5x as tough.
    Great! Got a link?
    Lots of them. Won't work directly, as I note my balance point for feats is that PAM/XBE is good, and SS/GWM is slightly under-par (at lower levels at least).

    Ah, here is a version:
    https://www.enworld.org/wiki/notayakk_homebrew/
    it has PAM/XBE rival weapon feats, implement based feats for spellcasters, damage type feats for spellcasters. And adjustments to a few feats, including DW/XBE/Spell Sniper. It is missing the Sharpshooter/GWM changes (give up prof for +2*prof instead of -5/+10).

    Your balance point is intentionally lower, so those will be too strong.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Ah, here is a version:
    https://www.enworld.org/wiki/notayakk_homebrew/

    Your balance point is intentionally lower, so those will be too strong.
    Yeah I can see that, but thanks! There are some items there I can make use of.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    I'm really not a fan of the idea that plate Armor can be made stealthy with a feat. I'm willing to accept that you could do so for medium armors, but heavy Armor feels like stretching it.

    Alert should specify that it allows you to ignore the surprised condition, not all surprises. Yes I've seen players misunderstand it like that.

    Is there a reason you use a feat for ignoring the loading quality and allowing twf with crossbows instead of making it a general houserule? Those two feel like flavor/reflavor decisions more than they are mechanical ones.
    You could do that, and then just keep the "don't provoke OAs for making ranged attacks" as a part of warcaster.

    I'm using a shortbow, but can I reflavore it as a crossbow?
    I'm using a rapier and a throwing dagger, but can I reflavor it as a light crossbow?
    I think it's smart, and good practice, to mention what houserules of yours a feat might interact with. It gives a clearer picture of the effects a feat has. Maybe just a spoiler under the feat?

    I really like you Dungeon delver. The line about false appearance and being able to spot things like ropers and mimics is perfect.

    Í really feel like the scaling on the healing done by healer feat is off, but I know you've used it in practice for a while. Are you sure [1dx + your level] is not more appropriate? I can see reasons for either being "more right".

    Toning down lucky to a 1/short rest feels right.

    Í would love to hear your thought process behind your changes of martial and Metamagic adept

    Did you think about including additional hit Dice in a feat?

    Edit: I'm Done

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Here are some of my houserules, that might make for interesting feats:

    - You can use your Action to block path. Any creature who attempts to move past you has to successfully tumble or overrun You, or lose the rest of it's movement this turn.

    - When you make an attack roll you can forgo rolling any damage dice as a part of the attack, if the attack hits.
    Replace each damage die with it's corresponding fixed value
    d4 = 2
    d6 = 3
    d8 = 4
    etc.

    - When you are dying and succeed on a Death saving throw, you can take one action on your turn. You cannot do so again until you finish a Long rest.

    - Once per long rest, you can take 10 minutes to spend a number of Hit Dice equal to your Proficiency bonus to regain hit points, adding your Constitution modifier to the value of each hit die that you Spend.

    - Sweeping Attack: Replace one attack you make on your turn with a sweeping strike. Each creature within 5 feet of you has to make a Dexterity Saving throw (DC = 8 + Strength mod + Prof bonus) or take damage equal to your weapons damage die.

    - Choose one skill. Whenever you roll under a 9 on a d20 on an Intelligence ability check to recall information or knowledge check using that skill, treat it as a result of 10.
    ^
    This one is great for religion, nature and lore Skills, giving you "eidedic" memory for those skills.

    I honestly don't know how the official tools can be used, but I love giving my players means to craft. Right now I have skills that allow players to craft Prof bonus number of items as a part of a long rest:
    - Alchemy: Acid, Alchemist Fire, Healing Potion
    - Herbalism: Antitoxin, Healing Potion, Healers Kit
    - Poisoners Kit: Basic Poison, Assassin's Blood, Antitoxin

    And the trapmakers kit

    Trapmaker’s Kit

    As a part of a short rest you can create a rudimentary trap. You can either create a Hunting Trap, or a simple mechanism using a trip-wire or pressure plate which can exert up to 10 pounds of force to an object within 15 feet of the trigger. This can be used to close a self-locking door, sound an alarm, trigger a crossbow to fire, or empty a strategically placed container of Oil or (more commonly) poisonous snakes. Your Wisdom or Intelligence ability check determines the passive perception needed to spot the trap, as well as the Dexterity saving throw needed to avoid its harmful effect, if any.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    I'm really not a fan of the idea that plate Armor can be made stealthy with a feat. I'm willing to accept that you could do so for medium armors, but heavy Armor feels like stretching it.
    Fair, its a bit of a stretch of the old verisimilitude. Counterpoint however: Trickery Cleric, Armorer Artificer, Pass Without Trace,
    magic items and more already exist. There's plenty of ways to counter the stealth disadvantage already and many aren't even considered that great, being able to cancel it with a feat investment seems fine to me (Stealth using DEX and Heavy armor using STR).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Alert should specify that it allows you to ignore the surprised condition, not all surprises. Yes I've seen players misunderstand it like that.
    Heheh, yeah will specify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Is there a reason you use a feat for ignoring the loading quality and allowing twf with crossbows instead of making it a general houserule? Those two feel like flavor/reflavor decisions more than they are mechanical ones.
    You could do that, and then just keep the "don't provoke OAs for making ranged attacks" as a part of warcaster.
    In short, my players. Some things they just won't accept me changing. Crossbows could be perfectly balanced against bows by range, damage and proficiency without the loading trait, but the table insists anyways.
    Don't you mean using ranged attacks in melee without disadvantage? I would probably put in sharpshooter if nothing else, but it's already busy enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    I think it's smart, and good practice, to mention what houserules of yours a feat might interact with. It gives a clearer picture of the effects a feat has. Maybe just a spoiler under the feat?
    Yeah learning my lesson there, added the relevant notes under Dual Wielder and will do elsewhere as I work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Í really feel like the scaling on the healing done by healer feat is off, but I know you've used it in practice for a while. Are you sure [1dx + your level] is not more appropriate? I can see reasons for either being "more right".
    It's a matter of scaling with level vs scaling with prof (and potentially expertise and other boosters). Both are perfectly within that range

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Í would love to hear your thought process behind your changes of martial and Metamagic adept
    Martial adept was pretty straightforward. I felt that a whole ASI for a fighting style was a tiny bit behind the curve and I was in the process of culling half feats, so the style plus a maneuver felt a natural match. If you want to go all in on the battlemaster-lite you can pick the style that gives you the maneuver and die to double up.

    Metamagic adept came along later, but the thought process was similar regarding an invocation being a tiny bit behind the desired range band so linking with a single metamagic felt about right. Also if I merged the two 'steal another casters unique thing' feats maybe it would dilute some of that bad taste in my mouth. We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Did you think about including additional hit Dice in a feat?
    Briefly (and increasing Hit Die size too), but I remembered multiclassing meant you can have different hit dice and more importantly I wanted an active part of the feat, something you *do*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    - You can use your Action to block path. Any creature who attempts to move past you has to successfully tumble or overrun You, or lose the rest of it's movement this turn.
    Feels very similar in function to my polearm fighting style (your reach is counted as difficult terrain for creatures you threaten).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    - Once per long rest, you can take 10 minutes to spend a number of Hit Dice equal to your Proficiency bonus to regain hit points, adding your Constitution modifier to the value of each hit die that you Spend.
    So like a once per rest version of the DMG Healing Surge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    - Sweeping Attack: Replace one attack you make on your turn with a sweeping strike. Each creature within 5 feet of you has to make a Dexterity Saving throw (DC = 8 + Strength mod + Prof bonus) or take damage equal to your weapons damage die.
    What about the DMG Cleave Through variant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    - Choose one skill. Whenever you roll under a 9 on a d20 on an Intelligence ability check to recall information or knowledge check using that skill, treat it as a result of 10.
    ^
    This one is great for religion, nature and lore Skills, giving you "eidedic" memory for those skills.
    Likely wouldn't work for me since I consolidate a few 'knowledge' skills as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Trapmaker’s Kit
    A fine addition!
    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-12-27 at 05:29 PM.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Thank you for your answers! The only part I feel compelled to answer directly is this part. Everything else was very thorough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Fair, its a bit of a stretch of the old verisimilitude. Counterpoint however: Trickery Cleric, Armorer Artificer, Pass Without Trace,
    magic items and more already exist. There's plenty of ways to counter the stealth disadvantage already and many aren't even considered that great, being able to cancel it with a feat investment seems fine to me.
    Oh yes, mechanically it's just fine. It just feels weird granting it with no flavor text, or description on how the effect is achieved. All the other effects you mentioned connect it to some kind of magic or another. Giving it as an feat makes it sound like you're just Soo good at wearing clanking armor that it doesn't clank anymore.

    If it's not too much trouble, Could you include the feats you left unchanged in the post in your extebded signature? It makes it easier to link to players ^^

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Breccia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Healer feels ridiculously strong at low level. Even assuming a Wis of 10, a proficient user will cause "unconscious and bleeding to death" to become "fully healed" at first level on anyone who isn't a dwarf barbarian -- with an average roll. 1d20+2 hp is stronger that cure wounds until upcast by a Life Domain Cleric.

    By contrast, at max level with 20 Wis and Expertise, a roll of 15 is about 32 hp. Even a Cleric with average hp rolls and Con of 10, that's about one-third their hp. And a max-level character is far more likely to take 32 hp in one round than a first-level character taking 12 hp in one round. That's "20d6 but made my saving throw". Or "the storm giant hit me and rolled about average".

    I can't think of a reason you wouldn't just do this instead of stabilizing -- well, unless they drop a second time.

    Having a single Healer in the group sounds like a solid plan, but it shouldn't be this "required". I'd recommend you make it more proportional, possibly using one of these:
    1) Make it a Reaction to someone taking a hit. The maximum healing is the damage that hit did. This swaps from "I can heal anyone from anything no questions asked" to "get out of crit the DM didn't mean to roll so early in the campaign and now the guy who orders pizza is dead" As shown above, at higher levels nobody will notice the change.
    2) Cap the result at half or even one-quarter the target's maximum hit points. This requires the most work (not much but the most) but forces balance.
    3) Up the requirement so taking it at first level is just flat-out impossible. At fourth level, things are a lot more even and my concerns are far lessened.

    Alternatively, you could keep the benefit high but increase the resource cost. Healing potions are a lot less common than healer's kit charges at low level.

    My concern isn't just that the Feat is strong. My concern is that it feels so strong, players will have to RPS to decide who "has" to have it, and that's going to hurt character creation. Healer needs help, so I'm not worried about the healing at mid/high levels all that much, just the disproportionate nature of the Feat at first level.

    I like the list in general. It's always good to see Feats nobody takes get some love!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    He has used it like this for so long that I doubt he's changing it at this point. I've always felt that it's unreasonably strong, since it includes a d20. Capping it at half max HP or tying the healed amount to the healers level Definetly feels right. Even the original feat was determined be the recipients level (or technically hit die count)

    Wasn't there some official Ability that allowed you to heal a creature, but only up to half it's maximum? So a creature With 50hp could never be healed past 25 hit points with the Ability

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Feat reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Wasn't there some official Ability that allowed you to heal a creature, but only up to half it's maximum? So a creature With 50hp could never be healed past 25 hit points with the Ability
    Champion fighter regeneration and Life cleric channel.

    I'll take another look at it, capping at half max HP or introducing some requirements dont sound unreasonable but want to confirm the numbers.

    Edit: the numbers

    Spoiler
    Show


    Low levels (Tier 1) are indeed an outlier, with level 1 at the extreme especially with someone applying Guidance or the Help action. It does even out nicely at higher levels but initially the swing of the d20 is a big factor.

    Clipping Healer to max half HP would cripple it at those higher levels where it isn't a problem, and making it rely on GP-materials is a gamble because that is incredibly variable table-to-table. I'd rather not make it the only feat with requirements (I generally cut them from all feats same as the stat boosts) but there definitely should be something to reign in the healing output around those low levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Oh yes, mechanically it's just fine. It just feels weird granting it with no flavor text, or description on how the effect is achieved. All the other effects you mentioned connect it to some kind of magic or another. Giving it as an feat makes it sound like you're just Soo good at wearing clanking armor that it doesn't clank anymore.

    If it's not too much trouble, Could you include the feats you left unchanged in the post in your extebded signature? It makes it easier to link to players ^^
    Oh yeah, I do tend to skip on the fluff text for things that largely already exist. It would be a combination of 'just that good' and 'knows how to modify armor and all the other tricks in the book to avoid the shiny, noisy problems'

    Of course. There's a few i'm still working on (Actor, Skulker, Racial feats) but will update my sigthread.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-12-28 at 03:45 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •