Explain this feat for me please.

[Kerilstrasz]

Shadow Touched
Source: Tasha's Cauldron of Everything
Your exposure to the Shadowfell's magic has changed you, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the Invisibility spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the Illusion or Necromancy school of magic. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can't cast that spell in this way again until you finish a long rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells' spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.

The question is...
1) Does those 2 spells (Invisibility and the one i ll choose) count as always prepare for the purpose of using them once per Lrest without a spell slot???
2) Does those 2 spells (Invisibility and the one i ll choose) count as always prepare if i already used the "free casting" and i now use my own spell slots???

[Mastikator]

It's not "spells prepared", it's "spells known". You can cast them once without using a spell slot per long rest, and if you have spell slots you can also use them to cast these spells.

[Kerilstrasz]

It's not "spells prepared", it's "spells known". You can cast them once without using a spell slot per long rest, and if you have spell slots you can also use them to cast these spells.

So i have to have them prepared in order to use them? Either with or without a slot?

[diplomancer]

So i have to have them prepared in order to use them? Either with or without a slot?

Whether you're a spells known or a spells prepared caster, it makes no difference. You can just cast them, and it doesn't count neither on your "spells known" nor on your "prepared spells".

[Kerilstrasz]

Whether you're a spells known or a spells prepared caster, it makes no difference. You can just cast them, and it doesn't count neither on your "spells known" nor on your "prepared spells".

So... i do NOT have to prepare them.
What the feat says, if i get you right, is that it give me 2 spells to cast each once per long rest.
AND, if i have spell slots in my disposal, fuel recastings of those spell using said slots.

Nice.. thnx

[Greywander]

Yup, Shadow Touched and Fey Touched are great ways to expand your available spells on a class with limited spells known (like a sorcerer), or to just pick up spells you use regularly to free up preparation slots, allowing you to prepare something else instead. If you ever feel like you don't have enough spells known/prepared, these two feats can alleviate that somewhat. The free castings also save you spell slots, which is particularly nice if you use these spells regularly. These feats also work well on a warlock for spells that don't upcast well; you might not want to burn a pact magic slot on something like Misty Step, Silent Image, Bless, or whatever, but since the feat gives a free casting then you can save your pact magic slots.

[cyberfunkr]

Look at it this way... anyone can gain that feat. So let's take the example of a 1st level Rogue .. they have no spell slots.

But through this feat, the Rogue can cast _Invisibility_ once a day, and whatever other spell was chosen once per day. There is no "spells known", "spells prepared", "pact slots", etc. Just two spell effects that can be each cast once per day.

Now, once they become 3rd level, they subclass into an Arcane Trickster. Now they have spell slots.

They can still cast _Invisibility_ once a day, and whatever other spell was chosen once per day. But they can now use one of their 1st-level spell slots to cast the "other" spell an additional time. And when they reach 7th level and gain 2nd-level spell slots they can do additional castings of _Invisibility_ as well.

That make more sense?

[sithlordnergal]

The question is...
1) Does those 2 spells (Invisibility and the one i ll choose) count as always prepare for the purpose of using them once per Lrest without a spell slot???
2) Does those 2 spells (Invisibility and the one i ll choose) count as always prepare if i already used the "free casting" and i now use my own spell slots???

Yes to both questions. They essentially always count as being Prepared spells. You can always cast them once per day without a spell slot, then as many times as you like with a spell slot.

They do not count against the number of spells you can prepare in a day. Think of them as being similar to a Cleric's domain spells. They're always prepared, you can always cast them, and they don't count against the number of spells you can prepare in a day

[Sception]

If your class uses prepared spells, these spells always count as prepared without using up any of your limited preparations.

If your class uses known spells, these spells always count as known without using up any of your limited spells known.

They're available from the feat, you don't need to use other class features to access them. The feat lets you use any other spell slots you might have to cast them, entirely independently of how your class otherwise lets you use those spell slots.

[Witty Username]

Yes? you can cast them with spell slots at any time, so they are effectively always prepared, assuming you are a prepared caster. essentially the same as domain spells on the cleric list.

[Dualight]

Important to note is that spells you gain through a feat like this do NOT count as spells you gained from your class, or, in the case of Shadow-Touched, as gained from any class at all. It uses the spellcasting ability modifier of the feat, not the class, and, if you have any features/items that specify that they enhance or otherwise affect your 'class' spells in any way, feat-derived spells do not count for those effects. To take another effect from Tasha's Cauldron, the bloodwell vial, which boosts the spell attack rolls and spell save DCs of sorcerer spells has no effect on the attack rolls or save DC of the 1st level spell you gain through Shadow-Touched. Similarly, because these spells are tied to the feat, not a class, you cannot change which spells the feat gives you once you have chosen them. (Of course, a DM can always overrule any and all of this, but as I understand it, these restrictions are the RAW.) I might be too strict in my reading, but when building characters in a vacuum, I always assume that the more restrictive reading is safer.

[dafrca]

Important to note is that spells you gain through a feat like this do NOT count as spells you gained from your class, or, in the case of Shadow-Touched, as gained from any class at all. It uses the spellcasting ability modifier of the feat, not the class, and, if you have any features/items that specify that they enhance or otherwise affect your 'class' spells in any way, feat-derived spells do not count for those effects. To take another effect from Tasha's Cauldron, the bloodwell vial, which boosts the spell attack rolls and spell save DCs of sorcerer spells has no effect on the attack rolls or save DC of the 1st level spell you gain through Shadow-Touched. Similarly, because these spells are tied to the feat, not a class, you cannot change which spells the feat gives you once you have chosen them. (Of course, a DM can always overrule any and all of this, but as I understand it, these restrictions are the RAW.) I might be too strict in my reading, but when building characters in a vacuum, I always assume that the more restrictive reading is safer.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just not following where you got this restriction from? The feat does not say it, so I assume you got it from somewhere else. Now I am wondering what I missed and where it is.

Please share.

[Dualight]

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just not following where you got this restriction from? The feat does not say it, so I assume you got it from somewhere else. Now I am wondering what I missed and where it is.

Please share.

Spells known of 1st level and higher: [...] Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know(emphasis mine) and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which must also be of a level for which you have spell slots

All other classes that give spells known use the same wording, and preparation casters(such as paladins) use the wording "your list of prepared spells". Meanwhile, the text of Shadow-Touched makes no reference to class, stating "You learn the invisibility spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the illusion or necromancy school of magic", making no reference to class at all, nor is there any provision for changing the spells you gain through this feat.

So, in my, admittedly very strict, reading, this means that the spells you gain through this feat are not connected to any of your classes, and thus the spells from the feat are not valid targets for the swapping of spells known of some spellcasting features. Likewise, since feats like Fighting Adept have extra texty that spells out when you can switch the option gained from the feat, it can be inferred that the general rule is: "All choices are final(once you bring them to the table)". The reason I noticed this restriction is from discussion I read on the Magic Initiate feat(I think it was in a thread on Eldritch Knights or Arcane Tricksters, but I do not remember clearly), which actually is less restrictive in this regard, as it gives spells known from a class list, which thus do count as spells of that class. I am certain that most DMs would be willing to let you replace the spells from a feat if you are regretting your choices. but if they would refuse, they would have the RAW on their side. In other words, the restriction comes from what isn't in the wording of the feat, rather than what is.

Does this clear things up any? (I have to note that my studies demand that I spend a lot of time close-reading, so I am always primed to notice seemingly-minor wording differences that change the meaning of the excerpt.)

[Segev]

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just not following where you got this restriction from? The feat does not say it, so I assume you got it from somewhere else. Now I am wondering what I missed and where it is.

Please share.

It derives from the fact that the feat doesn't say anything to the effect of, "these spells count as [class] spells for you," where that language appears in other sources of unusual spells.

That said, there is argument to be made that, if they appear on a given class list, they are that class's spells, regardless of how you learned them.

[Dualight]

It derives from the fact that the feat doesn't say anything to the effect of, "these spells count as [class] spells for you," where that language appears in other sources of unusual spells.

That said, there is argument to be made that, if they appear on a given class list, they are that class's spells, regardless of how you learned them.

That is a more succinct way of putting my argument. A problem with your second point applies to spells that are on multiple spell lists, such as invisibilty. There are, to my knowledge, no effects in the game that explicitly mark a spell as counting as, for example, an artificer spell AND a wizard spell at the same time, even if the spell is on the list for both classes. At most, you can, when cases over spell list overlap, choose from which you, specifically, gain that spell, and thus which features might modify it further. That said, this does seem to be a grey area. I suspect that the intent for feats, such as Shadow-Touched, that grant spells without specifying what class they belong to, is that they work like innate spellcasting, such as the tiefling's Infernal Legacy and the drow's Drow Magic racial abilities, which are also separate from the spell lists.
Also important to note is that "being on a class's spell list" is not a property of the spells, but rather of the classes, so a spell belonging to a class is a specific scenario, which overrules the general scenario of "the spell".
In summary, as far as I can tell, the general rule is that spells are not tied to anything, and that Spellcasting features and class spell lists are specific rules that outrank the general rule, as per "specific beats general".

[Segev]

That is a more succinct way of putting my argument. A problem with your second point applies to spells that are on multiple spell lists, such as invisibilty. There are, to my knowledge, no effects in the game that explicitly mark a spell as counting as, for example, an artificer spell AND a wizard spell at the same time, even if the spell is on the list for both classes. At most, you can, when cases over spell list overlap, choose from which you, specifically, gain that spell, and thus which features might modify it further. That said, this does seem to be a grey area. I suspect that the intent for feats, such as Shadow-Touched, that grant spells without specifying what class they belong to, is that they work like innate spellcasting, such as the tiefling's Infernal Legacy and the drow's Drow Magic racial abilities, which are also separate from the spell lists.
Also important to note is that "being on a class's spell list" is not a property of the spells, but rather of the classes, so a spell belonging to a class is a specific scenario, which overrules the general scenario of "the spell".
In summary, as far as I can tell, the general rule is that spells are not tied to anything, and that Spellcasting features and class spell lists are specific rules that outrank the general rule, as per "specific beats general".

It doesn't come up often, and certainly not without you being a member of both/all classes involved. Invisibility is a wizard and sorcerer spell. If you are a wizard/sorcerer with abilities that work "on your wizard spells" and "on your sorcerer spells," and one of each kind of those abilities could apply to a single casting of invisibility, there is no reason they cannot both apply to that casting.

Out of curiosity, what combination of features are you worried will stack that should not?

[Dualight]

It doesn't come up often, and certainly not without you being a member of both/all classes involved. Invisibility is a wizard and sorcerer spell. If you are a wizard/sorcerer with abilities that work "on your wizard spells" and "on your sorcerer spells," and one of each kind of those abilities could apply to a single casting of invisibility, there is no reason they cannot both apply to that casting.

Out of curiosity, what combination of features are you worried will stack that should not?

No problematic features really come to mind, so I am not actually worried. I do not have the time to really dig through all the books to find ways to abuse this reading, so I definitely cannot give examples of specific features. I think that the key here would be that spellcasting abilities are specified for [class] spells, with no further qualifiers, so treating a spell as both a wizard and a sorcerer spell could mean that you would have free choice of which of Intelligence and Charisma you use. Hypothetical scenario: a sorcerer with 13 CHA finds a headband of intellect, then takes 1 level of wizard, and proceeds to use their higher-level spells(that overlap with the wizard list, which is almost, although not quite, all sorcerer spells) with the increased INT, since they are a wizard and can thus cast wizard spells with INT, even if they learnt those spells as sorcerer spells, which should run off CHA.

I admit, I had to strain myself to find a scenario where this is even potentially problematic, and even then the problem requires a munchkin set on abusing the exploit, although my main concern here was more with RAW legality, which is important when theorycrafting or in Adventurer's League play. My personal rule of thumb, whenever I see a potentially interesting interaction between rules, is to scrutinise the text, so that I won't find my concept shut down because I didn't read carefully enough. I am aware that i am being rather pedantic here, but I have DMed for a player who couldn't resist pouncing on any and all loopholes I left in my rulings, so I have been conditioned to think every edge-case i can come up with through. This is not to say that they were a bad player, just that I am used to a style of play where I have be be alert for loopholes like this.

[Segev]

No problematic features really come to mind, so I am not actually worried. I do not have the time to really dig through all the books to find ways to abuse this reading, so I definitely cannot give examples of specific features. I think that the key here would be that spellcasting abilities are specified for [class] spells, with no further qualifiers, so treating a spell as both a wizard and a sorcerer spell could mean that you would have free choice of which of Intelligence and Charisma you use. Hypothetical scenario: a sorcerer with 13 CHA finds a headband of intellect, then takes 1 level of wizard, and proceeds to use their higher-level spells(that overlap with the wizard list, which is almost, although not quite, all sorcerer spells) with the increased INT, since they are a wizard and can thus cast wizard spells with INT, even if they learnt those spells as sorcerer spells, which should run off CHA.

I admit, I had to strain myself to find a scenario where this is even potentially problematic, and even then the problem requires a munchkin set on abusing the exploit, although my main concern here was more with RAW legality, which is important when theorycrafting or in Adventurer's League play. My personal rule of thumb, whenever I see a potentially interesting interaction between rules, is to scrutinise the text, so that I won't find my concept shut down because I didn't read carefully enough. I am aware that i am being rather pedantic here, but I have DMed for a player who couldn't resist pouncing on any and all loopholes I left in my rulings, so I have been conditioned to think every edge-case i can come up with through. This is not to say that they were a bad player, just that I am used to a style of play where I have be be alert for loopholes like this.

Fair enough. On the up side, regardless of what the spells "count as," the spell sources tell you what the casting stat is. Shadow Touched uses the stat you took a +1 in. Sorcerer uses Charisma. Wizard uses Intelligence. If you're a sorcerer/wizard with Shadow Touched who raised Wisdom with the feat casting darkness, you use Wisdom as the casting stat (should it be relevant), even if you're using a 2nd level spell slot granted by your multiclass combination of Sorc/Wiz. You would need to have it as a spell known granted by Sorcerer to use Charisma, or prepared from your spellbook to use Intelligence.

[dafrca]

Thank You both Dualight and Segev for the explanations. I am following the conversation again.