Snarl Endgame Theory

[geekdadsarcade]

This may sound crazy, but hear me out. The gods need a new color the Snarl doesn’t have in order to trap it. It’s pretty clear Redcloak isn’t going to play ball on behalf of the Dark One to add purple to the other colors. Fortunately, there is another new color we haven’t seen yet…

Banjo.

[BloodSquirrel]

Thor already knows about Banjo, so if that was workable, he'd have gone with that.

(I'm still rooting for the MitD to be some sort of divine creature that will be able to contribute).

[Jason]

Banjo is not yet powerful enough to offer his clerics 9th level spells.

[geekdadsarcade]

Banjo is not yet powerful enough to offer his clerics 9th level spells.

Not powerful enough... yet...

Banjo and Giggles have a pantheon started over on Orc Island. It's just a matter of time.

[Fyraltari]

Not powerful enough... yet...

Banjo and Giggles have a pantheon started over on Orc Island. It's just a matter of time.

Until the orcs switch god again? I agree.

[elros]

I apologize if it has been covered by another thread, but I wonder if 9th level spell slot from an elemental creed could work. I think of it like colorless mana.

[Emanick]

I apologize if it has been covered by another thread, but I wonder if 9th level spell slot from an elemental creed could work. I think of it like colorless mana.

This is a really interesting question that I don’t remember being addressed before. I genuinely don’t know how that would work. Do those spells have quiddities? Are they just a mixture of the three primary ones?

[InvisibleBison]

I apologize if it has been covered by another thread, but I wonder if 9th level spell slot from an elemental creed could work. I think of it like colorless mana.

I can't imagine that would work. The non-theistic clerics derive their power from various powerful elementals, who presumably were created by the gods. Thus, the spells cast by non-theistic clerics would be of one of the three known quiddities (or perhaps a mixture of all three), which wouldn't be useful for sealing the Snarl.

[faustin]

The Snarl origin story as told by Lord Shojo was never meant to be 100% accurate. Just like the origin of the goblin race.

For example, what about the undestroyed world with the ocean witnessed by both Blackwing and Laurin through the rifts?

[gnomish dwelf]

This may sound crazy, but hear me out. The gods need a new color the Snarl doesn’t have in order to trap it. It’s pretty clear Redcloak isn’t going to play ball on behalf of the Dark One to add purple to the other colors. Fortunately, there is another new color we haven’t seen yet…

Banjo.

That's almost genius... But you are wrong, Banjo lost his followers to the new god of slapstick... That's the new colour that will save everyone!

[geekdadsarcade]

That's almost genius... But you are wrong, Banjo lost his followers to the new god of slapstick... That's the new colour that will save everyone!

I'm willing to bet Banjo and Giggle's pantheon will be a new color.

[gnomish dwelf]

I can agree to that

[Morquard]

Banjo was created by a follower of the northern gods (Elan) so even if he has any quididity, it would be yellow.

The Dark One is specifically a new color, because his followers where not followers of ANY of the established pantheons.

Let's be honest, if Banjo was going to be the solution, we'd have seen him do more than be a joke in the last 1000 strips or so (the first 100 don't count).

[gnomish dwelf]

Banjo was created by a follower of the northern gods (Elan) so even if he has any quididity, it would be yellow.

The Dark One is specifically a new color, because his followers where not followers of ANY of the established pantheons.

Let's be honest, if Banjo was going to be the solution, we'd have seen him do more than be a joke in the last 1000 strips or so (the first 100 don't count).

What about giggles?

[Morquard]

What about giggles?

We've seen Giggles been anything less than a joke in the last 1000 strips?

Let's be honest, if someone worshipping a hand-puppet could solve the god's billennia-old problem, you really think nobody on the trillions of previous worlds would have come up with it yet?

[gnomish dwelf]

We've seen Giggles been anything less than a joke in the last 1000 strips?

Let's be honest, if someone worshipping a hand-puppet could solve the god's billennia-old problem, you really think nobody on the trillions of previous worlds would have come up with it yet?

touche, touche indeed sir, you win the debate

[Emanick]

We've seen Giggles been anything less than a joke in the last 1000 strips?

Let's be honest, if someone worshipping a hand-puppet could solve the god's billennia-old problem, you really think nobody on the trillions of previous worlds would have come up with it yet?

To be fair, even in that vast amount of time (probably more like millions than trillions, though I guess we don’t have much data on which), it’s entirely possible that literally nobody has tried this specific thing before. It is kind of nuts.

[danielxcutter]

Considering that making Banjo and Giggles relevant to this would essentially make the entire goblin subplot thing completely meaningless, no it probably won’t happen and I sure hope it never does.

[Synesthesy]

I apologize if it has been covered by another thread, but I wonder if 9th level spell slot from an elemental creed could work. I think of it like colorless mana.

The problem is that for sealing the Snarl you need 4 colors, and colorless mana is, well, colorless.

[faustin]

There are two current possibilities:

- Redcloak having a (dying) epiphanic moment where he realizes everything he did for the sake of the Plan was in vain, and agrees to Durkon's demands with a final 9 level spell.
- Banjo and Giggles gaining self-awareness and divinity through worship and rewarding their "maker" Elan with their own quiddity.

At this point, I don't know which one is the less likely.

[Morquard]

There are two current possibilities:

- Redcloak having a (dying) epiphanic moment where he realizes everything he did for the sake of the Plan was in vain, and agrees to Durkon's demands with a final 9 level spell.
- Banjo and Giggles gaining self-awareness and divinity through worship and rewarding their "maker" Elan with their own quiddity.

At this point, I don't know which one is the less likely.

There's been a few instances where Redcloak has struggled with either the Plan or his decisions or his alliance with Xykon.
There has been no instances of Banjo/Giggles not being a joke dreamed up by a lone bard. (discounting the first 100 or so strips)

I can tell you which of the two I find less likely. :)

[Nymrod]

There are two current possibilities:

- Redcloak having a (dying) epiphanic moment where he realizes everything he did for the sake of the Plan was in vain, and agrees to Durkon's demands with a final 9 level spell.
- Banjo and Giggles gaining self-awareness and divinity through worship and rewarding their "maker" Elan with their own quiddity.

At this point, I don't know which one is the less likely.

I know it will never happen but any number of mind-affecting spells V has access to could compel Redcloak to use a 9th level spell slot.

[woweedd]

Hm...No. No, the plot is not gonna be resolved by a joke character who has been of actual importance exactly once.

I know it will never happen but any number of mind-affecting spells V has access to could compel Redcloak to use a 9th level spell slot.

Wouldn't actually help long-term. They'd need to KEEP spot-welding the Rifts as they show up, which means they'd need to get the goblins as a whole on their side.

[Nymrod]

Hm...No. No, the plot is not gonna be resolved by a joke character who has been of actual importance exactly once.


Wouldn't actually help long-term. They'd need to KEEP spot-welding the Rifts as they show up, which means they'd need to get the goblins as a whole on their side.

Once Thor has proof of concept, everything changes though.

Oh and once that happens, the Dark One's best negotiating position is to kill Redcloak so he has no divine caster capable of 9th level spells on the material. Then the gods have to negotiate directly with him.

[Peelee]

Once Thor has proof of concept, everything changes though.

Oh and once that happens, the Dark One's best negotiating position is to kill Redcloak so he has no divine caster capable of 9th level spells on the material. Then the gods have to negotiate directly with him.

What? All TDO one has to do is stop granting him spells, and bam, same.situarion without killing one of the highest level clerics in the world, who also happens to serve him. Assuming he even could just up and kill Reddie - if that were something the gods could do with impunity, one might imagine Xykon would have been smitten some time ago.

[InvisibleBison]

Oh and once that happens, the Dark One's best negotiating position is to kill Redcloak so he has no divine caster capable of 9th level spells on the material. Then the gods have to negotiate directly with him.

Killing Redcloak is unnecessary. If the Dark One wants Redcloak to be unable to cast 9th level spells, he just needs to order Redcloak to inflict enough negative levels on himself to drop to 16th level.

Assuming he even could just up and kill Reddie - if that were something the gods could do with impunity, one might imagine Xykon would have been smitten some time ago.

I'm pretty sure the main reason the gods don't generally go around killing mortals is because doing so would violate the Dumb God Laws. Since the Dark One hasn't signed onto the Dumb God Laws Agreement, the only thing stopping him from killing mortals is the threat of another god retaliating in some way. This obviously wouldn't apply if he killed Redcloak.

[Nymrod]

And we really don't even know what exactly the Snarl is doing anyway, what with the world within the Rift. So I somehow don't think the actual endgame is to seal the Rifts.

[Emanick]

Assuming he even could just up and kill Reddie - if that were something the gods could do with impunity, one might imagine Xykon would have been smitten some time ago.

Adding on to what InvisibleBison said, it's possible that the Dumb God Laws (not to mention the basic structure of reality in the OOTSverse) allow gods to kill their own followers without repercussions - rather like how Roy was allowed to attack "his own" high priest during the Godsmoot. In that case, it would be perfectly possible for TDO to kill Redcloak while not being able to just divinely shank Xykon.

[mehs]

That's almost genius... But you are wrong, Banjo lost his followers to the new god of slapstick... That's the new colour that will save everyone!

eh doesn't really matter. Rival rules remember? Banjo will grow in power to match his brother even if Banjo doesn't do anything.

[Squire Doodad]

I'm willing to bet Banjo and Giggle's pantheon will be a new color.

To be fair, given the rules we've had described (for instance, the Elven Pantheon), Banjo would most likely be Yellow-derived as Elan is a Northerner, and therefore Giggles would also be Yellow.
Alternatively, they're both Blue, because it only began getting worshippers from Southern Orcs.


Regardless, the central plotline is not going to be resolved by a joke character in a way such that the entire plot is irrelevant.