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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Talking first-party, non-templated, non-unique monsters, and nothing from ELH. For example, Draconomicon's great wyrm Radiant Dragons have 49 strength. Is there any monster for which an average specimen is even stronger?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zanos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Are epic monsters that aren't in the ELH okay? There are some web enhancement and dragon magazine epic monsters with some crazy stats.
    Last edited by Zanos; 2021-12-06 at 02:35 AM.
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    I can't think of anything with more Strength than that. If you want to get technical, there are a few monsters that advance size as they gain hit die that would reach a STR of 50 or higher from those size bonuses (The Blackstone Gigant out of the Fiend Folio and the Goristro out of Fiendish Codex I, for example) and that technically fits your non-templated, first-party, non-unique, non-epic requirement, but I'm not sure if you're looking for something that involved. I think if you're looking for a creature with the highest all-around stats, you'll be hard-pressed to beat the Dragons.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    I concur. Non-advanced, I think Great Wyrms (Tome for Intelligence, Gold if Dragon Magazine is disallowed, Radiant for Str and Wis, Shadow for Cha), the Tarasque for Constitution (35), and an Air Elemental Monolith for Dexterity (33)
    Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-12-06 at 04:24 AM.
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    Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Mountain giant (MM2) Con 37
    Thunder worm (FF) Cha 42

    Both are from 3.0 sources but AFAIK have never been updated so are still valid

    Edit: strictly speaking, the Sphinx and Time Dragon (both from Dragon Magazine) hold the records for everything except Dex, but as they're in articles with "epic" in them they don't fit the spirit of your request, even if you consider Dragon first party.
    Last edited by Biggus; 2021-12-06 at 10:13 AM.

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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by 47948201 View Post
    Talking first-party, non-templated, non-unique monsters, and nothing from ELH. For example, Draconomicon's great wyrm Radiant Dragons have 49 strength. Is there any monster for which an average specimen is even stronger?
    Requirements:
    1. First Party
    2. Non-Templated
    3. Non-Unique
    4. No ELH


    Draconomicon
    Dragon (Radiant, Great Wyrm): Str 49

    Monster Manual
    Elemental (Air, Elder): Dex 33

    Monster Manual
    Titan: Con 39

    Monster Manual V
    Illurien: Int 36

    Monster Manual
    Dragon (Gold, Great Wyrm): Wis 33

    Fiend Folio
    Thunder Worm: Cha 42

    Spoiler: Edge Case?
    Show
    There are creatures in various books that are named something like "Aspect Of Bahamut" or "Avatar Of Vecna" or something like that. Whether an aspect/avatar/etc counts as a "unique" creature in your book feels almost like a matter of opinion. I've not listed them in the above winners, but I'll list them here as potential winners:

    Elder Evils
    Aspect Of Atropus: Str 58

    Fiendish Codex II
    Aspect Of Glasya: Dex 34
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-12-06 at 10:36 AM.


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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Monster Manual V
    Illurien: Int 36
    Illurien is a unique creature so doesn't technically qualify despite having a normal monster manual entry.

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus View Post
    Illurien is a unique creature so doesn't technically qualify despite having a normal monster manual entry.
    For some reason the entry didn't read as unique to me initially, but now I'm not sure how I got that impression. Strange.

    Next-highest Int is Great Wyrm Gold Dragon at 32, I think? I don't think any other non-unique beat it out. Shadow Dragon tied.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Next-highest Int is Great Wyrm Gold Dragon at 32, I think? I don't think any other non-unique beat it out. Shadow Dragon tied.
    Yes, if Dragon Magazine content doesn't count. If it does, the Great Worm Tome Dragon Beni-Kujaku mentioned beats them (34).

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    ...because what is more charismatic than a giant cloud-like worm?

    I'd actually forgotten this thing exists. I recently finished the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. This would be a decent stand in for the Worm at Worlds End.

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...because what is more charismatic than a giant cloud-like worm?

    I'd actually forgotten this thing exists. I recently finished the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. This would be a decent stand in for the Worm at Worlds End.
    It's so silly. It has no Cha skills, no Cha-based save DCs...it only has the Cha to AC (Deflection) thing that's part of being incorporeal. That's literally the only reason Cha is so high, to get Touch AC up high on a Colossal creature. Not even regular AC, just touch AC, since regular AC is **** for its CR.

    Great Wyrm Dragon? Cha 33 max.

    Fae master of the hunt? Cha 35.

    Aphrodite herself? Cha 47.

    Some ****ing worm cloud, Cha 42.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-12-06 at 03:28 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Yeah, I feel like they should have just given it some arbitrary deflection bonus, like they did with Will-O'-Wisp, rather than inflating it's Cha...

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Gravewyrm: 42/50/44/33/38/56

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Gravewyrm: 42/50/44/33/38/56
    As that appeared in an article called Epic Insights I don't think it's what the OP is looking for. IIRC it does have the distinction of the highest Dex of ANY published monster though.

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    Metastachydium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus View Post
    As that appeared in an article called Epic Insights I don't think it's what the OP is looking for. IIRC it does have the distinction of the highest Dex of ANY published monster though.
    Well, technically there are freakin' abominations with a lower CR than the great wyrm metallics.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Which monsters have the highest raw ability scores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Well, technically there are freakin' abominations with a lower CR than the great wyrm metallics.
    ...and at least one actual demigod.

    Edit: for clarification, deities don't have official challenge ratings, but the demigod in question (Imhotep) wouldn't stand a chance against a great gold worm.
    Last edited by Biggus; 2021-12-07 at 02:29 PM.

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