A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Back when Elliot and Sarah were together, Sarah has an outburst about how nothing has happened "despite her best efforts".

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    Back when Elliot and Sarah were together, Sarah has an outburst about how nothing has happened "despite her best efforts".
    Yep. Plus, while I'm not searching it out, the comic where Ellen asks Eliot for some superhero clothes implies that she and Nanase have been intimate.

    These are Americans in their late teens, apart from the Eliot/Sarah years I'd expect any of them in long term relationships to not be virgins. As to the recently established relationships I honestly expect Luke and Justin to go that far first, Eliot and Ashley will dork around it for fifty dates and Sam is going to need time to both get used to his magic and realise that Sarah knows about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Are you implying that this wouldn't be completely normal for most eighteen-year-olds?
    I am implying that it would be unprecedented for one of Dan's characters. (Nanase and Ellen have been in a monogamous committed relationship for how long? And the closest the comic gets to spelling out that they've actually had sex is "I had sexy plans this weekend.") Which, don't get me wrong, actually causes me some immersion issues and I'd be delighted if he actually moved past it, but.
    Last edited by Kish; 2022-01-11 at 12:23 PM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    So you're telling me she's not referring to ritual murder by strangulation?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Yeah I'mma be honest: I could list tons of stories more popular than EGS that mention sex less. Often the only indication you get the act occurred at all is that a child is there now. Generally frank and clear mentions of sex are confined to two or three things: adult comedies, porn and raunchy dark dramas that are considered "deep". EGS is none of those.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    So which is OotS? An adult comedy, porn, or a raunchy dark drama?

    Also, I am, for some reason I can't put my finger on, skeptical that you can list tons--or even one--story that mentions sex less than "not at all." Which you're essentially acknowledging two sentences after you made the claim, just with a goofy claim that "don't actually mention sex" is near-universal.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    So which is OotS? An adult comedy, porn, or a raunchy dark drama?
    adult comedy, simple. this is not a hard question. (its also other things. genres aren't mutually exclusive.)

    as for pieces of media examples that don't mention sex, ahem: Dragonball*, One Piece*, Naruto*, Fairy Tail*, MHA* Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, A lot of Classic Disney works, Doctor Who, Bartimaeus Trilogy, Sonic, Halo, Tales of Symphonia, Final Fantasy, Star Wars, TWEWY, all the Spiderman movies, probably Power Rangers, probably Godzilla, Jet Set Radio Future, MLP, Megas XLR, and avatar the Last Airbender, and I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting.

    *No amount of admiring the view is actually tasting the cake as it were. if viewing a scantily clad lad or lady counted for this, every time someone goes to the beach would count as sexual.

    and no, romance by itself does not count as a mention. romance is not sex, nor is intimacy as Grace's "cuddles" demonstrate.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    You said that mention sex less than El Goonish Shive, not that mention it the same amount. 0=0. And congratulations...you've supported "action animes, works for small children, and the Star Wars movies* rarely mention sex," which is a vastly less expansive claim than 'Generally frank and clear mentions of sex are confined to two or three things: adult comedies, porn and raunchy dark dramas that are considered "deep".'

    But if you consider El Goonish Shive to be an action anime or something aimed at small children, well, that might explain why I'm boggling at the claim you made**.

    *I am afraid I am not going to take your word that Dr. Who never mentions that characters in it have sex.

    **It also would if "its also other things. genres aren't mutually exclusive" is meant to imply that you would shove the vast majority of all works into one of the categories you listed as mentioning sex--which one would any Star Trek series go into? I sure wouldn't consider any of them a comedy or a "raunchy dark drama"--but even if you consider El Goonish Shive aimed at a substantially younger audience than I do, or primarily defined by the occasional and usually Elliot-centric fight scene to a level that puts it in the same genre as Dragonball, that would still not justify the tone implication that mentioning "these characters are having sex" is actually rare in general.
    Last edited by Kish; 2022-01-12 at 08:21 AM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I am afraid I am not going to take your word that Dr. Who never mentions that characters in it have sex..
    We know the precise night Melody Pond was conceived.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We know the precise night Melody Pond was conceived.
    To be fair, modern Doctor Who mentions this far more than Classic Who, argle blargle Susan blah blah Looms something something official word is that Gallifreyans have sex.

    EGS has touched upon sex a couple of times. I'm not certain it's ever been more direct than this or the Sarah/Nanase discussion though. Honestly I'd rather have it not come up rather than have it handled immaturely. The comic has firmly established that characters are interested in sex and that Susan is not interested in participating. Unless We're going to have a plot about the characters having sex that's probably enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    To be fair, modern Doctor Who mentions this far more than Classic Who, argle blargle Susan blah blah Looms something something official word is that Gallifreyans have sex.
    I freely concede that if you go back half a century suddenly Lord Raziere's statement is not only accurate but doesn't go far enough. Not really seeing the relevance to EGS there though.

    And I think we have different definitions of "immature."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post

    EGS has touched upon sex a couple of times. I'm not certain it's ever been more direct than this [...]
    I think it's also a matter of style and genre. Early EGS was influenced by '90s comedy where being a pain was a viable shtick, and Tedd was one of those characters, plus a horny little pervert (there's actually a strip in which he discovers he grew out of it). Later it become very feel-driven and meditative.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Looking at that old comic, it occurs to me that conception can occur up to a week after intercourse. So being in an infertile form at the time, may not be enough. But thinking about this too hard will raise unanswerable questions. Questions like "What happens if a pregnant woman transforms into a man?"

    Also, whenever someone with children talks about the danger of unwanted pregnancy, the subtext I always imagine is "You don't want to end up like me. I had so many other things I wanted to do in life. I wasted my best years taking care of an ungrateful little hellion."

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Also, whenever someone with children talks about the danger of unwanted pregnancy, the subtext I always imagine is "You don't want to end up like me. I had so many other things I wanted to do in life. I wasted my best years taking care of an ungrateful little hellion."
    Tedd is not even legally an adult in that comic. I think it's entirely fair to say that it's too early in his life for having a child. He's not responsible enough.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-12 at 04:07 PM.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Also, whenever someone with children talks about the danger of unwanted pregnancy, the subtext I always imagine is "You don't want to end up like me. I had so many other things I wanted to do in life. I wasted my best years taking care of an ungrateful little hellion."
    It does not have to be like that. The thing with pregnancy and child rearing is that it is a serious commitment usually for more than 20 years. You have to be really ready for this mentally. Otherwise you can easily mess up your life and that of your child. We got our children with my wife as we planned, but looking back at myself at an age of for example 20, I know it would have been a very bad idea to have children back then. Even more so for my teenage years.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Guessing that this villain form is going to be important considering it's being brought up again. Most likely a trade of restraint in exchange for extra points, and possibly fishnet stockings. So Eliot won't go around destroying buildings for fun, but they will be more violent and confrontational.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Now starting a petition to call the villain form "Evilliot"

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Guessing that this villain form is going to be important considering it's being brought up again. Most likely a trade of restraint in exchange for extra points, and possibly fishnet stockings. So Eliot won't go around destroying buildings for fun, but they will be more violent and confrontational.
    Interesting. I said it was going to be important a month ago, and everyone jumped down my throat to say how wrong I was.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Interesting. I said it was going to be important a month ago, and everyone jumped down my throat to say how wrong I was.
    Whelp guess I better pick up the phone then, cause you called it. Kudos.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2022-01-15 at 01:22 PM.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Interesting. I said it was going to be important a month ago, and everyone jumped down my throat to say how wrong I was.
    Yep. I talked about it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Yeah, this is likely a reworking of the old Inner Demons idea. Although if we're lucky it'll instead be used to dive into potentially questionable aspects of Eliot's morality.

    Like, we're going to see this villain form at some point, probably in four decades, and its actions are going to be based on Eliot's personality (be else why else include it). It being a kind of inverted morality is much less interesting than smaller twists. Especially if (speculation time) the form can exist in it's powered state for extended periods.
    Although I shall take my hat off to everybody who called it being important I the near future. Hyperbole aside, I honestly thought that this was being set up for years down the line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    If she's a sinister version of Cheerleadra, shouldn't her name be something like Agitatress, Instigatrix, Rabble-Rousette, Agente Provocatrice, or Ringleaderinna?

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    If she's a sinister version of Cheerleadra, shouldn't her name be something like Agitatress, Instigatrix, Rabble-Rousette, Agente Provocatrice, or Ringleaderinna?
    I'd be partial to Jeerleadra or Sneerleadra.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Hey, Mama Kitsune. Papa Kitsune. Not cool. Never assume that your legally an adult child is willing to do things and then make demands at the last minute.

    Especially you, Mama Kitsune. You were doing so well about easing off of the toxic behaviors. Granted, not by much, but...

    I mean, they're still needs to be some kind of confrontation regarding Mama Kitsune thinking that Nanase's attraction to girls is just a phase and... Every other bit of Toxic parenting behavior that's never been addressed... And the keeping secrets that shouldn't be kept secret stuff*

    So, place your bets: Tedd confronting Edward on Edward's disapproval vs Nanase confronting Mama Kitsune on Mama Kitsune's long history of toxic parenting. Which will come first.

    *"We come from a long line of monster hunters, our family may have enemies. Especially your aunt" is information that Nanase and Akiko are entitled to.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    This is what you get for answering your phone without excusing yourself from the conversation, Elliot! Have you no manners? Your parents raised you better than this!

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    *"We come from a long line of monster hunters, our family may have enemies. Especially your aunt" is information that Nanase and Akiko are entitled to.
    Akiko is definitely too young to have to worry about that.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-17 at 03:33 AM.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Akiko is definitely too young to have to worry about that.
    I'm not saying they need to know now but it's also not something that Nanase should have found out from a warlock attacking her to get revenge on Noriko.

    Like, Mama Kitsune knows that Nanase has magic. This is something Nanase should have been told the second Mama Kitsune found out about Nanase's magic.

    And if Akiko doesn't find out by the time she's 18, then Mama Kitsune has failed as a mother becuase "people might attack you over what your ancestors/aunt did" is, again, information that people are inherently entitled to.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Interesting. I said it was going to be important a month ago, and everyone jumped down my throat to say how wrong I was.
    I don't agree with that characterization of what happened previously, and my position then--that I very much hope Elliott has the minimal brainpower to not actually use this "villain form", "violations of Chekov's Gun" aside--isn't shifting based on the latest few comics (indeed, demonstrating that Elliott has considered that he could become a villain and recoiled from it previously does not sound like evidence that at some point he'll assume the villain form). (Oh wow, Elliott's still thinking about what he was an hour ago! Clearly this is the new focus of the comic!) (Although, since you went and put the previous exchange on the table, I am going to comment to Anonymouswizard that, looking at two-for-two "it's something Elliott's going to do or it would never have been brought up/it's going to be important since it's been brought up again," I gather you really want Elliott to turn into his villain form for some reason--if that's what's meant by "it being important"; the equating of the exchange now with the previous one suggests it is, but I would not inherently treat those as the same statement.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Akiko is definitely too young to have to worry about that.
    Somehow I do not think Not-Tengu would be swayed by, "You can't do something awful to her! She's too young to have to worry about you!"
    Last edited by Kish; 2022-01-17 at 07:21 PM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Somehow I do not think Not-Tengu would be swayed by, "You can't do something awful to her! She's too young to have to worry about you!"
    There's nothing Akiko could have done to Not-Tengu anyway. Telling her that people moght come and murder her and her family to a child wouldn't help make her safe, it would just terrify her and possibly harm her development.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    So the implications are that Bishop learned entirely the wrong lessons from Authur, right?
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So the implications are that Bishop learned entirely the wrong lessons from Authur, right?
    Well, I think she got her fashion sense elsewhere, but otherwise yes.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-21 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 19 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

    Oh no! The comic turned 20 today! The thread title is now inaccurate!

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