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2022-01-06, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Wasn’t that originally a quip about quantum physics?
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2022-01-06, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Schrödinger's thought experiment with the cat in the box ended with "this is, of course, ridiculous". He was arguing against the Copenhagen interpretation at the time, and as the world likes to turn, his thought excitement became synonymous with the very thing he was saying was wrong.
Last edited by Peelee; 2022-01-06 at 09:22 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2022-01-06, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Okay, then Chekov's Cat must be the quote I'm looking for. Anyway, the idea is that until the cat is shot... No.
If you see a cat in the play... Wait.
If it has to be one or the other you have to assume a gun will go off.
Or something. It has to do with cats, anyway.
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2022-01-06, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
And it is still ridiculous, if you accept that the cat can be 50% alive and 50% dead, then there's nothing magic about a scientist opening the box, so after the box is opened you have a scientist who will 50% shortly be dealing with a bunch of PETA protestors and 50% is now being mauled by an angry cat.
Schrödinger was simply pointing out that Copenhagen says that wave functions collapse, and then does NOTHING to define what causes this collapse given that particles can interact with complex systems (like a metal plate with two slits) and the function does not necessarily collapse.
Observer and observation are (carefully) not defined by advocates of Copenhagen, but their interpretation requires that these things sometimes happen and sometimes not. It is all frantic waving of hands and hoping no one will notice that this is all nonsense that doesn't help you understand anything and doesn't make any testable predictions you couldn't make without it. (i.e. it is not science.)
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2022-01-06, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Last I checked, The Copenhagen Interpretation holds that an "observation" is what happens when quantum systems interact with something classical; that is, the thing that is affected by what state the quantum system is in when it collapses. So... yeah, they define what observation means to a quantum system. That's not to say that CI school of thought is definitely correct compared to other alternatives, or that they're able to pin down what the precise delineation between a classical system and a quantum one is, but don't mistake having unanswered questions as "it is not science," anymore than the existence of Dark Energy makes General Relativity not science.
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2022-01-07, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
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2022-01-07, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
There's also the "Yeah, applying quantum stuff to classical objects doesn't exactly work, that's kind of the whole deal. It doesn't interact in the way you'd expect from macro-scale objects. It's unintuitive"
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2022-01-07, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Schrödinger can change his mind ~ you don't know what he believes until he tells you this time. But the clever scientist side-steps into a wormhole and lets the cat maul the PETA protesters.
Schrödinger was simply pointing out that Copenhagen says that wave functions collapse, and then does NOTHING to define what causes this collapse given that particles can interact with complex systems (like a metal plate with two slits) and the function does not necessarily collapse.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2022-01-07 at 09:00 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2022-01-07, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-01-07, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2022-01-07 at 12:18 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-01-07, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
Heh, you reminded me of this great observation:
https://twitter.com/shrimpJAJ/status...UVVe99l6Q&s=19
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2022-01-10, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1250 - The Discussion Thread
There's no such thing as an object outside of the QM system being examined, since the entire observable universe is a single QM system.
There's no test that will check anything about Copenhagen, because it makes no predictions. It doesn't tell you what an "classical" system is, since such a thing does not exist, and if one did, a two slit plate would certainly count.
The lack of ANY testable prediction that you do not get from QM without Copenhagen is how you can tell that Copenhagen is not science.