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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 16

    This is probably not clear enough for "simple RAW" readings.

    The phrasing implies that being able to meet prerequisites at the time the previous feat was taken is an additional constraint, on top of the requirement that you also meet the prerequisites in your current state, and this is not an exhaustive list of things that could prevent you from choosing a particular feat. Since you're also still taking the new feat now, you can't usually pick a 1st-level-only feat through retraining because you're no longer a 1st-level character.

    That said, it wouldn't be the first build to be impossible without retraining (e.g. you can get circular dependencies in feat loadouts pretty easily) and the book expressly says don't sweat it:
    Quote Originally Posted by PH2 192
    After your character goes through the retraining or rebuilding process, you might notice that he doesn’t quite match the specs of a similar character built up to the same level by the normal method. Maybe his skill points don’t add up quite right, or his hit points are off a bit from the expected value. But the small variations that crop up in this process don’t significantly impact play balance, and writing rules to eliminate them would complicate the process without really improving the quality of your game.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by sreservoir View Post
    A 16

    That said, it wouldn't be the first build to be impossible without retraining (e.g. you can get circular dependencies in feat loadouts pretty easily) and the book expressly says don't sweat it:
    Yeah, I know what you mean by "circular dependencies". Like taking a standard Metamagic feat, taking later two other Metamagic feats with prerequisite "any other Metamagic feat", and then retraining the first one -- you still qualify for the two latter feats as they mutually fulfill each other's prerequisites. Truly, abusing the retraining rules is an art form. It basically defaults to "What the GM will allow."


    Q 17
    A 1st-level Wizard takes the Precocious Apprentice feat, selecting a 2nd-level spell. As specified in the feat, she can now cast it even at a lower caster level than the usual minimum needed for the spell. But can she...

    A) Scribe a scroll with the 2nd-level spell on it at a lower price than usual for such a scroll, by reducing its caster level to 1?

    B) If the answer to the above is "no", can she scribe at all this 2nd-level spell on a scroll, given that her caster level is below the minimum to create an ordinary scroll with this spell?
    Last edited by St Fan; 2021-12-21 at 10:54 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    Q 17
    A 1st-level Wizard takes the Precocious Apprentice feat, selecting a 2nd-level spell. As specified in the feat, she can now cast it even at a lower caster level than the usual minimum needed for the spell. But can she...

    A) Scribe a scroll with the 2nd-level spell on it at a lower price than usual for such a scroll, by reducing its caster level to 1?
    No. At your current level, you are not yet high enough level to cast the spell. If you were, you would have already lost the primary benefit of Precocious Apprentice. This is fairly explicit in the feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    B) If the answer to the above is "no", can she scribe at all this 2nd-level spell on a scroll, given that her caster level is below the minimum to create an ordinary scroll with this spell?
    Also no. From the scroll rules:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
    You don't know the spell, and you don't have the spell prepared. So even if you boosted your CL to 3 somehow, you still couldn't scribe it onto a scroll.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q18A According to the SRD, an animal can only have an intelligence of 1 or 2. What happens if I cast Fox's Cunning on an animal with an intelligence of 2?

    Q18B And what happens when said animal takes intelligence damage or gets an intelligence penalty while Fox's Cunning is in effect?

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 18 a It's Intelligence goes up

    A 18 b It's Intelligence goes down

    Specific over general, effects that raise stats take precedence over a type based restriction on said stat unless there just isn't a stat to raise, in the case of undead. (heh, raise) Otherwise Awaken animal wouldn't work because it couldn't raise the animal's intelligence before turning it into a magical beast. Similarly a aberration that's blind would no longer be a aberration, and any item or class feature that removes the need for food and or sleep would fail to work on basically anything.
    Last edited by Jervis; 2021-12-22 at 01:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 19 can a artificer with a caster level from another source, say 17 levels of wizard, use a Use Magic Device check to create a scroll of a 9th level cleric spell? (Just as a example) The wording on the artificer’s item creation feature makes me think the feature that gives them a CL and the ability to emulate a item for crafting are different mechanically but i’m not sure.

    Q 19 b How does this interact with a psionic artificer and Psion for example?

    Q 20 Would a wizard or other caster that prepares from a book that has a spell too high for them to cast scribed in said book count as knowing the spell? Assuming it’s a spell they could theoretically cast at a appropriate level anyway.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 19

    Those mechanics don't interact at all. The artificer's item creation class feature has an effect based on artificer level, and you can't UMD emulate a class feature to actually use a class feature as if you were a different level.

    A 19b

    It doesn't, but with the extra problem that the psionic artificer's item creation feat is almost entirely nonfunctional, since it loses the ability to emulate spells without actually gaining the ability to emulate powers. (But if you do gain the ability to emulate powers from another source, you have to use UPD instead of UMD.)

    The psionic artificer is not exactly a complete write-up of a variant class...

    A 20

    The one explicit definition I know of for a wizard's known spells is in the PH glossary:
    Quote Originally Posted by PH 310
    known spell: A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and can prepare. For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks. For sorcerers and bards, knowing a spell means having selected it when acquiring new spells as a benefit of level advancement.
    This definition does not distinguish spells by whether you have the level to cast them.

    (That said, this is a really funky definition.)

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 21 Could a artificer (or I suppose a level 12 warlock) with the chameleon crafter feat (dragon mag) make power stones of spells? And if they could, would a StP Erudite be able to learn the spell contained in them?

    Q 22 Is there any other class or feat that allows for spell emulation other than Warlock and Artificer? Mystic from path of war does it at 4 and works off initiator level but that’s pathfinder and awkward. Trying to look for a way to make a omnicrafter that doesn’t take all of my levels

    Also thanks to everyone who’s answered one of my questions and thanks in advance to anyone that answers this
    Last edited by Jervis; 2021-12-24 at 08:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervis View Post
    Q 21 Could a artificer (or I suppose a level 12 warlock) with the chameleon crafter feat (dragon mag) make power stones of spells?
    The feat limits it to only spells or powers you know, so it's up to the DM to adjudicate whether your crafting ability constitutes an exception to that limitation or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervis View Post
    And if they could, would a StP Erudite be able to learn the spell contained in them?
    It would work for a warlock, but not for an artificer. StP erudites can only learn arcane spells, and an artificer's creations are explicitly neither arcane nor divine. Warlock-crafted items are arcane or divine based on the spell that they copied, so their creations should be fine as long as they're arcane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervis View Post
    Q 22 Is there any other class or feat that allows for spell emulation other than Warlock and Artificer? Mystic from path of war does it at 4 and works off initiator level but that’s pathfinder and awkward. Trying to look for a way to make a omnicrafter that doesn’t take all of my levels
    Not for all spells, only for subsets. There's one that gives you sorcerer/wizard spells only, for potions only, and another that gives you just illusion spells. Chameleons can learn or prepare spells from any class, but only up to a certain level. Nothing does what artificer and warlock do. Well, a wish spell does, but I feel like that doesn't count.

    In Pathfinder, you can ignore prerequisites with Spellcraft checks.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q23

    Power Attack adds more damage when the wielder uses “a two-handed weapon, or...a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands.” The lance is a two-handed weapon, but it may be used in one hand by a mounted character. So if a mounted character uses Power Attack with a lance wielded in one hand, does Power Attack add damage as for a one-handed weapon or as for a two-handed weapon?
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Q23

    Power Attack adds more damage when the wielder uses “a two-handed weapon, or...a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands.” The lance is a two-handed weapon, but it may be used in one hand by a mounted character. So if a mounted character uses Power Attack with a lance wielded in one hand, does Power Attack add damage as for a one-handed weapon or as for a two-handed weapon?
    A 23
    The RAI is rather clear here that it means only two-handed attacks. The RAW, less so, but you should note that there is a rule for the strength bonus which is much less ambiguous: "Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus."

    Power Attack is clearly meant to give a double bonus on those same conditions. So, using a lance (or other tricks to use a two-handed weapon one-handed, such as Monkey Grip) don't give the double bonus.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 24

    Here's the kind of scenario I'm looking at:

    I want to scribe a cold-substituted scroll of fireball.
    I have scribe scroll, energy substitution, and ritual transference.
    Another spellcaster I'm traveling with knows fireball.
    Using ritual transference, he supplies the fireball spell necessary for me to scribe the scroll.

    So the question in the scenario is:
    Am I able to supply a metamagic feat for the creation of a magic item that someone else is supplying the spell for? Or does the supplied spell need to be "cast" with the metamagic feat already applied to it (ie, the other spellcaster needs to have and apply the energy substitution feat himself)?
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q25: we had a rogue start the fight hidden. he started shooting his first target, sneak attack. so far, all clear.
    the rogue dropped the first target with two attacks, still had attacks left. so he aimed at a second target.
    the question is, would the rogue still have sneak attack on the second target - because he was hidden? or did the act of attacking the first target break his hiding and reveal him so that he does not get sneak attack anymore?
    worth noting that he was using guns, not exactly a stealthy weapon

    Q26: A spell storing weapon delivers a spell. The DC of the spell's saving throw is calculated as normal for all objects (10+1.5*spell level) or is the DC based on the guy who stored the spell in the weapon in the first place (the party cleric, in this case)?
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
    Q25: we had a rogue start the fight hidden. he started shooting his first target, sneak attack. so far, all clear.
    the rogue dropped the first target with two attacks, still had attacks left. so he aimed at a second target.
    the question is, would the rogue still have sneak attack on the second target - because he was hidden? or did the act of attacking the first target break his hiding and reveal him so that he does not get sneak attack anymore?
    worth noting that he was using guns, not exactly a stealthy weapon
    The rogue would need to make a new Hide check at a -20 penalty for sniping in order to remain hidden after attacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
    Q26: A spell storing weapon delivers a spell. The DC of the spell's saving throw is calculated as normal for all objects (10+1.5*spell level) or is the DC based on the guy who stored the spell in the weapon in the first place (the party cleric, in this case)?
    It's based on the caster's DC.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 25 additional

    The rogue could maintain sneak attack if it was a surprise round, or if the enemies in question were still flat-footed, but otherwise Troacctid's answer is correct.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    The rogue would need to make a new Hide check at a -20 penalty for sniping in order to remain hidden after attacking.

    sniping is a standard action, with another move action to hide at a -20 penalty.

    i take it that to make a full attack, one authomatically renounces on making the hide check and is not hidden?
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 27 Are there any lower level spells, powers, or items that create a copy of you? All I know is Simulacrum, Body outside Body, Fission, and Ice Assassin. Ideally I’d like to find something lower level than that for
    Q 27 b would a chameleon’s floating feat being filled with Expanded Knowledge allow a Erudite to yoink the power gained from it, assuming he was copying that power from his copy and changed his floating chameleon feat out for the day to a different feat?

    Edit: schism might work but i’m not sure, if like to hear if it would work for this purpose assuming you could get the duration to work
    Last edited by Jervis; 2022-01-01 at 04:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q28
    I saw in some recent competition link to playtested version of illumians. With more sigils. And I can't find this link now. Ask a help.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    Q28
    I saw in some recent competition link to playtested version of illumians. With more sigils. And I can't find this link now. Ask a help.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200412070...041114b&page=2

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Thanks!!!.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A27: I had a character for a comp lately which needed to create a copy of himself to make a Soul Eater's Soul Radiance permanent. I looked for a while, but didn't find anything more than what you're suggesting. One way to do that at pretty low level would be to use a mirror mephit to Simulacrum you (of course, if your DM allows to summon mirror mephits). Schism would probably work, since "[An erudite] can make mental contact only with a willing psionic character [...]" and Schism works "like two characters in one body". However, "Once an erudite understands a new power through the procedure of contact described above, he can learn it, permanently adding it to his repertoire." (emphasis mine). In the case of a Schism, the power is not new, since the erudite already has it learned through Expended Knowledge. That means they can't add it permanently to their repertoire.

    A27b: No. Even if we handwave the "new" thing, "An erudite can learn discipline powers only by directly learning a power from another's repertoire" (emphasis mine). Still, you can get Expanded knowledge, create a power stone, wait for Expanded Knowledge to run out, take another feat, then learn the power from your own power stone.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q29
    In epic play, assume we want to take an epic feat from a choosable bonus feat granted by a class feature. Does this bonus feat need to be come from an epic class, for an epic feat to be a legal choice?

    For clarity's sake, this isn't about trying to skirt around epic feat requirements with martial monk, true dragons, or whatever. Assume the character in question is level 21+, but is gaining nonepic class levels.

    For example: A wizard 4/fighter 16 reaches level 21, and makes her first epic level wizard. She is now a wizard 5/fighter 16, and as such gains a bonus feat from her wizard level, which may be "a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery". Assuming the wizard meets the prerequisites, may she gain Improved Heighten Spell as their bonus feat, since she is an epic character, and it is a metamagic feat?
    Last edited by ApologyFestival; 2022-01-02 at 08:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 29

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    The standard rules for multiclass characters still apply, but epic characters must keep in mind the rules for epic advancement... Whenever an epic character is allowed to pick up a feat as part of character level advancement, he or she can choose either a nonepic feat or an epic feat. All class descriptions provide a list of bonus feats that characters must choose from. When a character has to choose from a list of bonus feats in the second class, he or she can also choose from the bonus epic feats described for each specific class.
    This entry indicates that you are in fact allowed to choose an epic bonus feat from the wizard list when your non-epic wizard levels would grant you an item creation or metamagic feat, granting that your character is overall epic-leveled.
    Last edited by Vaern; 2022-01-02 at 10:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 30
    If a creature with Change Shape also possesses an Alternate Form ability, can it use alternate form to gain the attributes of a creature and then Change Shape to camouflage it? For example, a Changeling Wild Shape Ranger 6/Cabinet Trickster 5 wild shapes into a Black Bear and then uses Change Shape into a stylish human aristocrat, is the "original" form the form that is being effected by the Change Shape (the Black Bear) or is it the Changeling's natural form?
    Last edited by White Blade; 2022-01-03 at 08:30 AM. Reason: used "alternate form" instead of Change Shape in one section
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by White Blade View Post
    Q 30
    If a creature with Change Shape also possesses an Alternate Form ability, can it use alternate form to gain the attributes of a creature and then Change Shape to camouflage it? For example, a Changeling Wild Shape Ranger 6/Cabinet Trickster 5 wild shapes into a Black Bear and then uses Change Shape into a stylish human aristocrat, is the "original" form the form that is being effected by the Change Shape (the Black Bear) or is it the Changeling's natural form?
    A 30

    After you use the Alternate Form ability to change from a humanoid into a bear, you can use the Change Shape ability only to change into a different humanoid.

    This is true because, when you use either the Alternate Form ability or the Change Shape ability to change into a new form, you retain the type and subtype of your original form.

    So when you use the Alternate Form ability to change from a humanoid ranger into a black bear, your creature type is still humanoid. Therefore, you can, while in the form of a black bear, still use the Change Shape ability to take the form of a different humanoid, but you cannot use it to take the form of a different animal.
    Last edited by Duke of Urrel; 2022-01-03 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Urrel View Post
    A 30

    After you use the Alternate Form ability to change from a humanoid into a bear, you can use the Change Shape ability only to change into a different humanoid.

    This is true because, when you use either the Alternate Form ability or the Change Shape ability to change into a new form, you retain the type and subtype of your original form.

    So when you use the Alternate Form ability to change from a humanoid ranger into a black bear, your creature type is still humanoid. Therefore, you can, while in the form of a black bear, still use the Change Shape ability to take the form of a different humanoid, but you cannot use it to take the form of a different animal.
    I know your type never changes, I’m asking if you still have a STR of 18 and a +4 NA or not. Change Shape doesn’t change your stats, whereas alternate form does, but Change Shape references your “original form” and not simply “lose/retain”
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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Quote Originally Posted by White Blade View Post
    I know your type never changes, I’m asking if you still have a STR of 18 and a +4 NA or not. Change Shape doesn’t change your stats, whereas alternate form does, but Change Shape references your “original form” and not simply “lose/retain”
    A 30, Digging Deeper

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    This is a harder question.

    The Player's Handbook, on page 172, discusses two ways in which spells that change your form may be combined.

    The first way is for the second spell to make the first spell irrelevant. For example, suppose you cast the Polymorph spell to change yourself into a bear, then cast it again to change yourself into a crocodile. The second spell makes the first spell irrelevant. Another way to say this is that multiple form-changing spells "do not stack."

    The second way is for the first spell to make the second spell irrelevant. This happens only when the first spell is more powerful than the second spell. The Player's Handbook gives the example of the Shapechange spell and the Polymorph spell. If you cast the Polymorph spell upon a spellcaster who's already using the Shapechange spell, the spellcaster can simply change again, negating the effect of your spell. So in this case, the two spells do "stack," because the first spell is too powerful to be negated by the second one. Indeed, the first spell is powerful enough to make the second spell irrelevant, that is, strong enough to effectively negate it.

    So the question that we need to answer is: Do the effects of the Alternate Form ability and the Change Shape ability negate each other, or does the Change Shape ability stack with the Alternate Form ability (because the latter ability is more powerful)?

    I would answer this question by saying that the Alternate Form ability and the Change Shape ability simply negate each other, because this is simpler and because the Alternate Form ability is not very much more powerful than the Change Shape ability (indeed, the latter ability may be more flexible than the former). However, I am not your dungeon master. So ... ask your dungeon master.
    Last edited by Duke of Urrel; 2022-01-03 at 11:14 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Hope it's alright if I bump this. I have a whole shenanigan in mind that depends on how this situation works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaern View Post
    Q 24

    Here's the kind of scenario I'm looking at:

    I want to scribe a cold-substituted scroll of fireball.
    I have scribe scroll, energy substitution, and ritual transference.
    Another spellcaster I'm traveling with knows fireball.
    Using ritual transference, he supplies the fireball spell necessary for me to scribe the scroll.

    So the question in the scenario is:
    Am I able to supply a metamagic feat for the creation of a magic item that someone else is supplying the spell for? Or does the supplied spell need to be "cast" with the metamagic feat already applied to it (ie, the other spellcaster needs to have and apply the energy substitution feat himself)?
    "Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    Q 31 Do Elan’s qualify as human for pre-req purposes? Likewise they’re humans that were turned into aberrations but does that let them qualify as human for feats like able learner and the Chameleon class?

    Q 32 and just to make sure i'm not insane, undead and [Evil] outsiders can't increase their taint score via tainted scholar can they? I know it's suppose to be fixed but a player argued that it isn't and that sounds... horrifying.
    Last edited by Jervis; 2022-01-03 at 11:56 PM.
    Native Sha'ir enthusiast. NO GENIE WARLOCK DOESNT COUNT!

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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #37: 3d12+1

    A 24 No

    I am pretty certain that when creating a magic item of the spell "cold-substituted fireball" that is the spell that needs to be supplied (daily) during the creation process.

    Note: the spell is not technically cast during the magic item creation, it is used as if cast.

    I don't know what "ritual transference" is, so I don't know if it affects this.

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