Yu-Gi-Oh! GX: Werewolf!

[Taffimai]

Is it just me or does gac's arguments for voting me read a little weird? It's hard to be unbiased since it's about me, so I won't change my own vote, but I'd love to hear what other people think about it.

Yes. The reason it's weird is that he's creating a schrödinger's wagon with the pre-start votes while ignoring that until you revoted me we already had one. #alsobiased

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Meaning that the reason given is just fluff.

[Seandiggersby]

There isn't really much to go on yet so I'll just randomly vote for someone... Taffimai

[Taffimai]

@Batcat Can I have your opinion on Snow's Caoimhin vote? I don't like it. She has this thing with "I'm going to do something many people think is sus and I'll point it out that it's sus while I'm at it" and I really wish she would stop doing that. On the one hand, there were plenty of other random votes possible so why. On the other hand I was expecting her to vote for me (right down to the formulation of her reasoning for it) so maybe the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations.

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There isn't really much to go on yet so I'll just randomly vote for someone... Taffimai

Hi there! Are you ok with Sean?

[Batcathat]

There isn't really much to go on yet so I'll just randomly vote for someone... Taffimai

Random vote for the person with the most votes isn't a great look (and it does sort of make me want to withdraw my own vote, since I'm not really suspicious enough of Taff for her to be the only plausable wagon).

@Batcat Can I have your opinion on Snow's Caoimhin vote? I don't like it. She has this thing with "I'm going to do something many people think is sus and I'll point it out that it's sus while I'm at it" and I really wish she would stop doing that. On the one hand, there were plenty of other random votes possible so why. On the other hand I was expecting her to vote for me (right down to the formulation of her reasoning for it) so maybe the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations.

Tough to say. I didn't think it was suspicious but then I've never been great at reading Snow. Worth keeping in mind, I suppose.

[Valmark]

Completely missed the start of the game.

I, uh, am reading all this right after waking up so I kinda haven't retained memory of who said what, but anyway... Don't count me as a new guy! I mean, I'm no veteran, but I actually played some games and then went on a bit of a hiatus because I was super distracted IRL.

That said, if you don't wanna vote me I don't mind.

gac3, your load looks light, get a vote while I wake up and figure who said what.

[Snowblaze]

@Batcat Can I have your opinion on Snow's Caoimhin vote? I don't like it. She has this thing with "I'm going to do something many people think is sus and I'll point it out that it's sus while I'm at it" and I really wish she would stop doing that. On the one hand, there were plenty of other random votes possible so why. On the other hand I was expecting her to vote for me (right down to the formulation of her reasoning for it) so maybe the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations.

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Hi there! Are you ok with Sean?

What do you make of me changing to vote for you?

Also I don't really get what you mean by that last bit.

Also also, hi new person and new old partner-in-backstabbing-each-other!

[Taffimai]

Saint-Just what's keeping you?

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What do you make of me changing to vote for you?

Also I don't really get what you mean by that last bit.

I originally had a theory that you always meant to vote me but because Batcat did you didn't want to create a wagon with your random vote and had to come up with something on the fly, but that's nonsense because he came after you. Now I'm thinking pressure?

Assuming "that last bit" is this: "the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations". For example, Valmark always votes the first person on the list who hasn't been voted for. He did, which confirms my expectations so that post feels good. Your first post felt off. "Pinging" is a term I've picked up from reading Mafia Universe.

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Does an "alpha" always get to choose their team or does it depend on the narrator? This would be interesting to know once we find one of the wolves.

[Valmark]

Also also, hi new person and new old partner-in-backstabbing-each-other!

Hey, I do lots of front-stabbing as well. And Hi!

I originally had a theory that you always meant to vote me but because Batcat did you didn't want to create a wagon with your random vote and had to come up with something on the fly, but that's nonsense because he came after you. Now I'm thinking pressure?

Assuming "that last bit" is this: "the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations". For example, Valmark always votes the first person on the list who hasn't been voted for. He did, which confirms my expectations so that post feels good. Your first post felt off. "Pinging" is a term I've picked up from reading Mafia Universe.

I've become a legend while I was gone.

@Xihirli: can you confirm, explicitely, that if Alpha wasn't in game the kill power would still be transmitted?

[Snowblaze]

That wasn't what I meant with that "last bit", I meant your question to Sean. As written it's saying "are you okay with yourself" which doesn't make much sense.

[gac3]

I assumed the preemptive votes would count, but I suppose you might be right. So let's make my Taffimai vote really official.

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Is it just me or does gac's arguments for voting me read a little weird? It's hard to be unbiased since it's about me, so I won't change my own vote, but I'd love to hear what other people think about it.

I'm somewhat biased but I also thought it was a little weird. But idk. I only follow his logic about 60% of the time.

Yes. The reason it's weird is that he's creating a schrödinger's wagon with the pre-start votes while ignoring that until you revoted me we already had one. #alsobiased

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Meaning that the reason given is just fluff.

Also yeah. It was a weak reason which is mainly fluff because I don't have a reason to vote anyone yet.

There isn't really much to go on yet so I'll just randomly vote for someone... Taffimai

If not for the fact that I have never heard of you and therefore assume you are new, I would be voting for you based on that choice. However you have one day of benefit of the doubt because of being new.


Need to be look again and see if I can pick a real vote.

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Also quick, people who read, will I have a better understanding of what's going on if I read the opening post?

Also I should Google my character since I'm unfamiliar with any non Yugi Motto part of the franchise

[Snowblaze]

Yeah, gac's logic makes No Sense. At least that's normal for them.

Reading the OP will help you understand some of the mechanics talk earlier on, and also mean you don't have to scramble to read it when the inevitable claims and chaos happen. But then again, I only skimmed it and haven't taken much in. Maybe I should fix that.

@Valmark, why would you want to frontstab anyone? It's no fun that way!

[Batcathat]

Although I'm still not sure about Taff (and I have a slight suspicion that she might be trying to pocket me) I feel like we should have more options, and I still have that bad feeling about gac3.

That wasn't what I meant with that "last bit", I meant your question to Sean. As written it's saying "are you okay with yourself" which doesn't make much sense.

I think she meant "are you okay with being called Sean", at least that's my interpretation.

[Snowblaze]

That would make sense, yeah.

...and now I'm annoyed I didn't figure that out myself.

[bladescape]

I'll eventually be wrong on this but...

Snow is town I think.

[gac3]

I'll eventually be wrong on this but...

Snow is town I think.

I'm also leaning that way but also there's that voice inside saying "Just because Snow looks town, doesn't mean they shouldn't be killed. You can't trust them." But I usually tell that part of me to shut up and only occasionally regret it

Also I think down to move my vote to Saint-Just who if I read the last vote for them right is one of if not the only person not to post yet? Better temporary vote than BCH anyways. Will cross that one out later

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Yeah, gac's logic makes No Sense. At least that's normal for them.

Part of me is like "my logic always makes sense". Then I remember this one time I did some fancy math problem and got the right answer really fast. My teacher was impressed and asked me to explain to the class how I solved it. When I explained they looked at me dumbfounded because I had read the problem wrong and therefore nothing I did made any sense and they couldn't figure out how I had gotten the right answer. That is how I sometimes feel in these games.

[Snowblaze]

I'll eventually be wrong on this but...

Snow is town I think.

*insert paranoia here*

[Valmark]

@Valmark, why would you want to frontstab anyone? It's no fun that way!

Because from the back you don't see the look on their faces!

I'm also leaning that way but also there's that voice inside saying "Just because Snow looks town, doesn't mean they shouldn't be killed. You can't trust them." But I usually tell that part of me to shut up and only occasionally regret it

Also I think down to move my vote to Saint-Just who if I read the last vote for them right is one of if not the only person not to post yet? Better temporary vote than BCH anyways. Will cross that one out later

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Part of me is like "my logic always makes sense". Then I remember this one time I did some fancy math problem and got the right answer really fast. My teacher was impressed and asked me to explain to the class how I solved it. When I explained they looked at me dumbfounded because I had read the problem wrong and therefore nothing I did made any sense and they couldn't figure out how I had gotten the right answer. That is how I sometimes feel in these games.

Arguably true about Snow, but still if someone looks town it's possibly better to test them out in a way different from votes.

I would say that voting for someone who isn't around at the beginning doesn't yeld much information.

I lost track of how many times the logic I thought perfectly sensible either got me lynched or very nearly got me lynched.

[bladescape]

I'm not going to doubt on Snow because I have so far called her correctly in every single game we've played. That includes when she was wolf and I was town.

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Yes this is what we call an ego read.

Yes this will bite me some day.

[Rogan]

So, that's a really good point - if we can make assumptions about who is in the game based on the flavor text, that Wolf ability is much less helpful.

I disagree about Nightshroud/Alexis not being in the game - it seems like this is a unique pair of roles and if I was running, I'd be hesitant to cut something like that.

<Snip>

Sarcasm aside, an actually welcome to Seandiggersby. Hope you enjoy the game!

Well, there are two roles not explicitly mentioned in the recruitment thread. So they could be aliases and the wolves got to learn something about them. On the other hand, they were written in a way benefiting a villain, so them being town would be strange...
I wonder if it would be helpful if everybody would claim "named in OP", but I am afraid, it would be more helpful for the wolves. I'm still taking other opinions on that matter.

They are also a very wolf sided duo. The problems with Alexis have been called out already, partly here, partly in recruitment.
The ghost is a huge pain in the ass, since we will have to search a new wolf who could hide in the pile of previous locked town. Unless we are lucky and catch him early, this could completely screw with us. So I could imagine them being left out.
@The players of the first match: Do you remember what kind of roles were left out there?

@Sean: Yeah, welcome to the game!

My point is that the narration need not exactly follow the actual status of the game, and in a setup where one of the advantages of the wolves is to have more information about which roles are or aren't in the game, I actually expect it not to. The wolf faction kill, which mechanically lies with a specific wolf as specified in the opening post, could be performed by another in the narration so as not to give us information. Just because "Tania" shows up at the academy to represent the lynch or Nightshroud rips apart a night kill doesn't mean they're actively in the game.


This true, but it is all very predictable. For example, we already know now that in a 4T/2W situation, we might lose by lynching the wrong wolf. The mayhem other roles could create will be more unexpected, I think. I'm just going to file this under "other people see things differently" rather than that there's something I'm missing.

I was going to advocate a vote spread so the tally would reveal Don Zaloog, but then I checked the last game and there were no vote tallies.

Valmark

Ah, this makes more sense. I guess we should take a look at the narrative on later days to check if you have more information than you should have and lynch you if your predictions come true!
Yeah, don't lynch Xi. This is not a bastard game
Sure, other roles can cause havoc as well, which might be more random - but those roles take more player input. This makes Alexis worse. Plus, unless you got a Seer result (which ain't gonna happen, cause I've got my super secret Seer slayer skill, as Xi will be happy to confirm) you don't know which wolf is which. So the knowledge is useless.

If we have two good suspects, we might be able to set things up so that one of them has one more vote than the other. If suspect nr 1 is Donny, we will know. But it would buy him one more day, which might or might not have an impact.

It seems rereading the thread with a well-rested brain didn't give me the marvelous insights I was hoping for. I think I'll leave my vote where it is for now, something felt slightly off about Taff. It's super vague and probably wrong, but it's more than I have on anyone else.

Was it this:

I don't get why you call Alexis a wrench in every plan. Her night action is voluntary on the side of the wolf - who would be giving up the wolf team's hold on the dead chat (without Nightshroud we can keep helping in the hopes that the tombkeeper is in the game) as well as the replacement wolf since "winning" is not the same as "being destroyed". That's a terrible trade for a townie who has no way to actively help town and who will die with her brother anyways. Add to that the fact that we sign up to play much more than to win and I honestly can't see many players screw over their team like that. But Saint-Just called her disruptive in the recruitment thread as well, so perhaps there's something I'm not seeing? Can you give me an example of a plan that doesn't work because of a possible Alexis?

It looks like a very wolf sided take of the role.

Yay, something's happening!

I... don't really get how voting for BCH will help you test whether all votes count. Having said that, there's a much easier test: @Xihirli do votes cast before the official start of the game count?

And it's definitely an innocent assumption. (What do you mean, "I don't believe you"?)

I think they will count, but I asked this as well. Might have been overlooked?
That being said, I don't really like your comment about believing you, but it's something you definitely do as town, so I should not hold this against you. Especially since I think you are right.

Completely missed the start of the game.

I posted before the official start, so you bring things back into balance

Could I get a short opinion on the text of the OP? Do you think the named roles have a meaning? Or is it purely fluff?

Does an "alpha" always get to choose their team or does it depend on the narrator? This would be interesting to know once we find one of the wolves.

Is there an online source saying the alpha gets to pick the team? Or why are you assuming he might get to do this?

Also quick, people who read, will I have a better understanding of what's going on if I read the opening post?

Also I should Google my character since I'm unfamiliar with any non Yugi Motto part of the franchise

You should at least skimm it. It should have a higher priority than googeling your Char. Unless you want to RP a bit? I would not mind!

---

I got some bad vibes from Taff and AV.
AVs stance about the game start seems contradictory, she definitely payed some attention to the game since the beginning but refused to vote since it would not change things and take too much energy. But her first vote was the usual self vote, which doesn't change a thing either. But AV always looks suspicious... and I don't really want to vote there, since she was the narrator last game (and still got killed). I also don't really see a reason for wolf AV to act this way.

Taff made some strange statements, but she could explain a lot in the replies. There are still some parts of her post that I don't really like, so I think she is a good wagon. But since she is in the lead (unless I missed some shifting of votes) and there is still enough time for things to change, I won't vote there right now.

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Because from the back you don't see the look on their faces!


Arguably true about Snow, but still if someone looks town it's possibly better to test them out in a way different from votes.

I would say that voting for someone who isn't around at the beginning doesn't yeld much information.

I lost track of how many times the logic I thought perfectly sensible either got me lynched or very nearly got me lynched.

Just stab them in a way that will make them die slowly. Plenty of time left to see the shock of betrayal!

Some wise person (I think it was Elenna) once (in UPick2, if I recall correctly) said, its would be a bad move to use a night action to verify someone as town if you think they are town.
So how would you suggest to test snow (unless telling us your method would allow her to fool you)?

[Valmark]

Yeah, don't lynch Xi. This is not a bastard game

I posted before the official start, so you bring things back into balance

Could I get a short opinion on the text of the OP? Do you think the named roles have a meaning? Or is it purely fluff?

Just stab them in a way that will make them die slowly. Plenty of time left to see the shock of betrayal!

Some wise person (I think it was Elenna) once (in UPick2, if I recall correctly) said, its would be a bad move to use a night action to verify someone as town if you think they are town.
So how would you suggest to test snow (unless telling us your method would allow her to fool you)?

Left the white to make it seeable.

I would assume that Xihirli knows someone would dissect that text and so it's significant to what's in play- that said, it doesn't mean everything is at it seems (for example it doesn't mean Kagemaru isn't in play).

Most of the reason for me asking wether the kill power will still be in game even if Alpha isn't.

If I make them die slowly they could have the time to kill me fast! Or survive!

Well, one way is to indeed use a night power (I don't agree that it's a bad move)- the other is to ask the person in doubt to cohoperate and if they don't it's sus. Of course you need to be in a condition where the power/allegiance can be verified and you need to be trusted by the person that looks Town.

[Snowblaze]

I'm not going to doubt on Snow because I have so far called her correctly in every single game we've played. That includes when she was wolf and I was town.

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Yes this is what we call an ego read.

Yes this will bite me some day.

Eh, technically you townread SK!me in Craziest Idea. But I'll let you off that one since you were a wolf and I was townsiding way too hard.

Also I think SJ is currently lead wagon, @Rogan. Supagoof, Taffimai and gac are voting for him iirc.

...actually that's a reason to be suspicious of Taffimai.

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I recommend stabbing with a poisoned dagger, Valmark. And then retreating to a safe distance.

[gac3]

Eh, technically you townread SK!me in Craziest Idea. But I'll let you off that one since you were a wolf and I was townsiding way too hard.

Also I think SJ is currently lead wagon, @Rogan. Supagoof, Taffimai and gac are voting for him iirc.

...actually that's a reason to be suspicious of Taffimai.

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I recommend stabbing with a poisoned dagger, Valmark. And then retreating to a safe distance.

Wait, why does this make Taff suspicious?.... I now have a theory but want to check.

Also oh man. Three of us are on Saint? I thought I made two.

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Wait do we have autolynch rules? I'll check

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I skimmed and didn't see any. Anyone know what happens if someone doesn't show up?

[Snowblaze]

Saint-Just what's keeping you?

I'm not going mad.

And because "starting a counterwagon without admitting to doing so, with pretty weak reasoning".

[Rogan]

Eh, technically you townread SK!me in Craziest Idea. But I'll let you off that one since you were a wolf and I was townsiding way too hard.

Also I think SJ is currently lead wagon, @Rogan. Supagoof, Taffimai and gac are voting for him iirc.

...actually that's a reason to be suspicious of Taffimai.

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I recommend stabbing with a poisoned dagger, Valmark. And then retreating to a safe distance.

Thanks for letting me know.
Taffimai will get my vote in this case.

And I might make another vote count soon, unless someone else beats me to this.

[Taffimai]

That wasn't what I meant with that "last bit", I meant your question to Sean. As written it's saying "are you okay with yourself" which doesn't make much sense.

As Batcat explained, but I wanted to add that if I ever were genuinely concerned about someone, I'd PM them instead of putting them on the spot like that.

Also quick, people who read, will I have a better understanding of what's going on if I read the opening post?

If you don't want to read the entire thing, I'd suggest reading just the five wolf roles, as three of them are going to be in the game at least and it will help you understand most of what's been said. For example Valmark's question:

@Xihirli: can you confirm, explicitely, that if Alpha wasn't in game the kill power would still be transmitted?

...makes a lot more sense if you've read this:

Kagemaru – Alpha Leader of the Shadow Riders, you shall regain your lost youth, whatever it takes.
Raviel, Lord of Phantasms: You are unaffected by card effects. When you are targeted by a card effect, you decide what result that person gets.
Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. In the Endphase, Destroy them. This power passes on to the next Shadow Rider in the event of its owner’s Destruction, in the order that the roles are listed.
Uria, Lord of Searing Flames: You can empower your strikes with powerful flame. If a character targeted by your Striking Thunder attack would not be destroyed because of a special ability, destroy them anyway. Once used, this ability cannot be activated again until a full turn order has passed (so you would only be able to use this every other turn).

(emphasis mine)

I'm not going to doubt on Snow because I have so far called her correctly in every single game we've played. That includes when she was wolf and I was town.

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Yes this is what we call an ego read.

Yes this will bite me some day.

It's going to bite us the day you're wolves together, that's what.

Oh, and what is your stance on old votes not crossed out? I don't remember seeing this in your post (but I didn't bother to check, so if it's there, sorry!)

Yes you should be sorry:

You may change your vote if you wish, in which case, you should edit your previous post and strike-through your previous vote.

Also from the previous Yu-Gi-Oh:

Batcathat, please strike through old votes. My memory isn't good enough to catch this every time I go back through the votes.

Sorry for being too fast! <snipsalot> Sorry, my bad! Anyway, you can ask now!

You're apologising a lot this game, when the mass posting after Xihirli's request not to was really more my fault than yours. Sign of a guilty conscience?

[Xihirli]

@Xihirli: can you confirm, explicitely, that if Alpha wasn't in game the kill power would still be transmitted?

The Shadow Riders will have a kill power as long as there is at least one in play.

[Rogan]

Spoiler: Quotes of Votes

Show

Vote: Snowblaze

bladescape

CaoimhinTheCape.

These are the uncrossed votes from before the official start. You might want to consider crossing them out.
After official game start:

AvatarVecna

Taffimai

Snowblaze

Book Wombat

Batcathat

Saint-Just.

Taffimai

gac3

Saint-Just

gac3

Saint-Just

Taffimai

Vote Count:
blades (1?): Book
AV (1): AV
Taffimai (3): Snow, Sean, Rogan
Snow (1): Cao
Book (1): blades
BatCat (1): gac
Jaint (3): Supagoof, Taffi, gac
gac (2): Valmark, BatCat

[Taffimai]

I lost things in my previous multi-quote that I had intended to say:

Is there an online source saying the alpha gets to pick the team? Or why are you assuming he might get to do this?

I think I got that impression from a game here (don't remember which one) where Lex-Kat was "an alpha but also had beast powers" and she got to pick her team then, unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

I'm somewhat biased but I also thought it was a little weird. But idk. I only follow his logic about 60% of the time.

FoS on Gac for making me think he was Rogan by talking in third person and using the same avatar.

[Rogan]

As Batcat explained, but I wanted to add that if I ever were genuinely concerned about someone, I'd PM them instead of putting them on the spot like that.


If you don't want to read the entire thing, I'd suggest reading just the five wolf roles, as three of them are going to be in the game at least and it will help you understand most of what's been said. For example Valmark's question:
...makes a lot more sense if you've read this:(emphasis mine)



<About me (and crossing of votes)>
Yes you should be sorry:

You're apologising a lot this game, when the mass posting after Xihirli's request not to was really more my fault than yours. Sign of a guilty conscience?

PMs are tricky in games like that. After all, there should be no 'hidden' communication. But on the other hand, you are right that some things should not be said on a public forum and asking for the wellbeing of someone is one of these things.
But I think there is (another) missunderstanding. I think, Snow interpreted your question as "What do you think about this player" where the person addressed and the person asked about were the same person. Which would not realy make sense.


HA! You know the number of wolves, you are a wolf as well!
But honestly, the suggestion is sensible and the assumption of at least 3 wolves is logical as well.


I'm just a polite guy, while still making lots of mistakes.
However, you might note that it's a SHOULD, not a MUST in the rules, so the question is still semi valid

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I think I got that impression from a game here (don't remember which one) where Lex-Kat was "an alpha but also had beast powers" and she got to pick her team then, unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

Ah, okay. I think, this game was from before my active time here.
@AV You were the Alpha in the last Yu-Gi-Oh! game. Did you get to pick your team?

[Snowblaze]

Caoimhin vote crossed out. Thanks, Rogan!

bladescape, can you elaborate on your Taffimai townread if there's any more detail than what you already said?

(Also if bladescape and I are ever wolves together we'll just bus each other to death.)