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Thread: Why 3.5?
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2022-01-13, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Why 3.5?
uh... not really? Manuevers and stances are comparable to martial class abilities and abilities gained by feats. Just because they are codified in a system does not make them spells.
Is Power Attack a spell? Robilars Gambit? Smite Evil? Manyshot? Nope, they are not. To me there is no meaningful difference in effect and feel to those on the one hand and Punishing Stance, Wolf Fang Strike or Revitalizing Strike on the other hand.
Sure, some maneuvers have effects that are usually found in spells and magic items - mainly teleportation and elemental damage. And as far as I remember those maneuver actually count as magical (not as spells, mind you).
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2022-01-13, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: Why 3.5?
Battlemaster actually is Core I believe.
Edit:
Comparing maneuvers to Power Attack is disingenuous at best because those are, as you say, feats. The fact that they follow many of the formats of spellcasting(preparation, levels 1 to 9, etc.) and also function in a similar way is why people compare them to magic. They don't feel as much as "magic" as other subsystems but the semblance exists.Last edited by danielxcutter; 2022-01-13 at 12:09 PM.
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2022-01-13, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Why 3.5?
Yes, they are not called spells. They are called maneuvers and stances (like I said, different magic subsystem). So what? Nor are invocations, powers or mysteries.
Is Power Attack a spell? Robilars Gambit? Smite Evil? Manyshot? Nope, they are not. To me there is no meaningful difference in effect and feel to those on the one hand and Punishing Stance, Wolf Fang Strike or Revitalizing Strike on the other hand.
Sure, some maneuvers have effects that are usually found in spells and magic items - mainly teleportation and elemental damage. And as far as I remember those maneuver actually count as magical (not as spells, mind you).
Whether these effects are called spells or not is perfectly irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, a class that uses martial expertise and magic in tandem is a gish, regardless of the terminology used.
Huh. That sounds nice, actually!Last edited by Metastachydium; 2022-01-13 at 12:22 PM.
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2022-01-13, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Why 3.5?
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2022-01-13, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2022-01-13, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2021
Re: Why 3.5?
The whole "is Tome of Battle magic" debate comes up constantly, and it's basically pointless because it's only ever a question of semantics. There's no official definition for what makes something "magic" rather than "not magic", and maneuvers have some properties that are like spells (divided into nine levels, divided into
schoolsdisciplines, some supernatural effects) and other properties that are not like spells (don't count as spells, explained primarily through physical skill, not limited by daily uses). Which side you fall on depends on what you consider the dividing line for "Gish" to be. My personal take is to go ChadYes.jpg and acknowledge that A) some maneuvers are basically magic but B) that's a good thing, since characters who are called upon to fight lords of hell or ancient dragons should be magical to some degree.
I broadly agree, but Smite Evil is definitely a magical effect. It's not a spell, but I would call it on par with things like Eldritch Blast or Wild Shape, which are clearly magical effects.
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2022-01-13, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: Why 3.5?
Battlemaster is definitely cool, but it's very front-loaded. When you first pick the subclass, you get to choose your three(?) favorite maneuvers, but every time from then on you're picking from the same list, so you've already got all the best ones. I wish they'd had some stronger or more interesting, but level-/requirement-gated, maneuvers like with Warlock Invocations. In practice, it's more than fine for most campaigns, though.
I do appreciate that 5E Fighters aren't locked into fighter bonus feats; being able to pick from the whole 5E list lets them add quite a bit to their repertoire compared to other martials, making up for their strong but bland chassis.Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
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2022-01-14, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
Re: Why 3.5?
friend or foe isn't a kill switch. if it is to the players they probably want simple fairytale morality to begin with.
For my heartbreaker, I would nix alignment as its own thing and just use subtypes/descriptors. Outsiders still get their alignment tags, as do characters with "aura of x". Most people have none. Maybe using certain spells gives you a tag for some amount of time, etc.
For D&D, I think it would be dumb to do away with, because the alignment 2x2 is one of the D&D things that has most penetrated pop culture.
Some kind of personality shorthand remains useful. For D&D, combined with above, current system seems fine.
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2022-01-14, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Michigan
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2022-01-14, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: Why 3.5?
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
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2022-01-19, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Why 3.5?
I love a lot of the systems in 3.X, as well as the customizability of characters and monsters. Plus, there's some homebrew on these very forums, and others as well, where playing a monster is its own class with their own strengths.
If I'm playing in a campaign, I'm usually, like, 3 of those necromancers since I love the archetype so much.
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2022-01-20, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Craig, Co
- Gender
Re: Why 3.5?
I have moved on, mostly. I started in 2e, skipped 3.0 for completely different systems, made it back to 3.5, eventually moved on to Pathfinder, tried 4e and 5e neither of which caght my attention, made my entirely new homebrew game system, and am currently diving deep into Starfinder. But 3.5 still holds a special place in my heart as it is where I really started homebrewing, it gave both a framework and space to build in. Without it I would never have made my Transformers game, let alone have made something to publish for Starfinder, and be working on more.
After playing 3.5 my group tried to go back and play 2e, and boy did that not work. But I would still be willing to jump into a 3.5 or PF1 game. Starfinder does what I want now, but only because of what I learned from 3.5.
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